Author Topic: Let the race for 2012 begin...  (Read 132305 times)

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Offline Inishfree

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Re: Let the race for 2012 begin...
« Reply #4950 on: November 08, 2012, 06:52:44 PM »
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I take it you've never
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As the GOp moves forward:

We need to take the social issues (except abortion) off the Table

Go ahead and legalize Gay marriage (as long as no Church or Church owned entity has to recognize it)
Go ahead and legalize MJ (who cares)

My question to the Pro Choice crowd--If the GOP said OK we will stop our opposition to Abortion, if Abortion was only legal in the case of Rape, Incest, health or Mental health of the Mother--would you be ok with that. Because they would be woman’s health issues, not abortion for Birth Control.

For me, no, because I don't think anyone has the right to tell a woman what to do with her own body. If a woman gets pregnant when she doesn't want to for whatever reason, and seeks to have an abortion the following week, she should be able to do so regardless of the circumstance. For me, life does not begin until birth. I don't see anything wrong with a medical procedure which removes a small amount of embryonic cells which, albeit are the potential for human life but, do not amount to a human life.  A woman should not be restricted from this procedure because of extenuating circumstances.

I take it you don't have children, 'cause when my wife was pregnant and we went to the clinic I could clearly see my child was alive in the womb, and my wife could feel her kicking inside every night.

The stage of a fetus' development you're describing if much later in the pregnancy cycle than the situation I was describing.  We already have laws banning partial-birth abortion with exceptions for extreme circumstances - I see no reason to change that part of the law.  I, personally, do not believe the human spirit lives until the moment of birth, but there is an undeniable inherent consonance that we as human beings have with a fetus that late in the development stage and I believe our laws now rightfully protect that.

I was commenting on your "life does not begin until birth" line. My wife was kept up many nights by our baby kicking inside her. Our child was alive inside her, kicking away. My cousin gave birth to her boy at about the 5 1/2 month mark. She was having problems with the pregnancy and the doctors made the decision to deliver at that time. For many people at 5 1/2 months they think the baby is not "alive" inside and it's ok to abort, but that child is now a very healthy 5 year old boy.



Oh my gosh, so was I.  By the seventh month of pregnancy, my son was kicking so hard.  I had a bruised rib.

It is incredible how children can be born early and have an excellent chance of survival.  This is why I am against late term/partial birth abortion.  The medical technology we have today, can almost always save both mother and child.

I did some volueenter office work, for a couple of weeks at a gyn/ob clinic located within a major hospital.  Because of Hippa Laws and my respect for privacy of the former patients.  I won't say where.  But, there are "packets" that are put together for women having an abortion.  You wouldn't believe all of the consent forms they must sign.  Including, relinquishing the hospital of all responsibility in case of death.  Abortions are not a "simple procedure or no big deal."

In case of the "abortion pill."  If the woman doesn't abort the fetus.  A different abortion procedure must be done, soon afterwards.  The pill does so much damage to the fetus that the pregnancy cannot continue.

   
« Last Edit: November 08, 2012, 07:18:52 PM by Inishfree »

Offline theocean

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Re: Let the race for 2012 begin...
« Reply #4951 on: November 08, 2012, 07:35:43 PM »
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Here's something that I don't understand at all. How the hell can someone be pro life and pro gun? Don't you think those two contradict each other?

MG, I agree with your views on abortion.

Because that whole group is funky, thats why Starman... :D :D :D

Offline Starman

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Re: Let the race for 2012 begin...
« Reply #4952 on: November 08, 2012, 08:08:50 PM »
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I imagine BGAB could be one of these people right about now:   You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

The ones about wanting free stuff and moving to another country are my favorites. I've actually seen that crap from friends on Facebook and Twitter.

Online briscoetheque

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Re: Let the race for 2012 begin...
« Reply #4953 on: November 08, 2012, 09:48:36 PM »
There can be contradictions because life is not black and white.

Just because a political party on the whole has a bunch of ten beliefs or values, doesn't mean that those who support it hold those ten beliefs.

Similarly, disagreeing with one of those doesn't mean that you relinquish, or should relinquish, support for the party that represents the greatest values that align with you as a voter.

No different to religion really.

We spend plenty of time telling our kids that people are individuals, and that we are all different. Then we try to split the nation into two where beliefs are expected to be black and white.

The whole world is f****** grey. or gray. depending on where you went to school.

Offline MarsGirl

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Re: Let the race for 2012 begin...
« Reply #4954 on: November 09, 2012, 07:30:03 AM »
Exactly, Briscoe. I think a lot of the conservatives (especially religious evangelicals) have trouble seeing the world in shades of gray (I went to school in the US :) ). God of Christianity is a black and white kind of guy.

Offline ryanm

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Re: Let the race for 2012 begin...
« Reply #4955 on: November 09, 2012, 11:22:39 AM »
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Exactly, Briscoe. I think a lot of the conservatives (especially religious evangelicals) have trouble seeing the world in shades of gray (I went to school in the US :) ). God of Christianity is a black and white kind of guy.

God of Evangelical Fundamentalist Christianity is a God of black and white.

I attend a Lutheran church with my boyfriend, who is applying to go to seminary next year and become a pastor.  Our God is not one of black and white.  Be careful not to lump all Christians into one group because, like Americans in general, we are not a unified and cohesive bunch.

Offline Droo

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Re: Let the race for 2012 begin...
« Reply #4956 on: November 09, 2012, 11:45:06 AM »
I am vigorously opposed to abortions later on in the gestation period. I would say that once there is brain activity, it's a human being and aborting it at that point would be murder.

Terminating a non-sentient lump of cells isn't murder any more than the death of billions of sperm is genocide.

Offline MarsGirl

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Re: Let the race for 2012 begin...
« Reply #4957 on: November 09, 2012, 11:49:53 AM »
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Exactly, Briscoe. I think a lot of the conservatives (especially religious evangelicals) have trouble seeing the world in shades of gray (I went to school in the US :) ). God of Christianity is a black and white kind of guy.

God of Evangelical Fundamentalist Christianity is a God of black and white.

I attend a Lutheran church with my boyfriend, who is applying to go to seminary next year and become a pastor.  Our God is not one of black and white.  Be careful not to lump all Christians into one group because, like Americans in general, we are not a unified and cohesive bunch.

I dont consider Lutheranism Evangelical Fundamentalism... :)

Also, I totally exclude United Church of Christ. I am totally okay with these newer Christians who DO see the multiple colors in the world and preach Christianity to a modern world without all the rigidity of the past. Unfortunately, not all Christians are so lenient with their beliefs. Ie, I dated a guy for too long who would tell you simply that it is not his to question God, God says gays are bad, and we must all accept that. I tried to point out the ridiculousness of some of the rules he espoused as God's truth, get him to think around it, and he was very tight lipped with "Well, this is what God said about it. We cant question it. Questioning is the devil trying to turn us away." True quote, swear it.

But anyway, when I lump evangelical fundamentalists, I'm talking about those way right ones. I have many friends who are ministers of Christianity who are very liberal. And some very liberal Catholic friends as well. So, you know. I dont hate Christianity.... I could even go to a liberal Christian church.

I'm sorry that I left out the evangelical fundamentalist part!

Offline imaginary friend

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Re: Let the race for 2012 begin...
« Reply #4958 on: November 09, 2012, 12:07:43 PM »
hahahahahahahahahahaha!    You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login******-president?post=54145161

Offline Starman

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Re: Let the race for 2012 begin...
« Reply #4959 on: November 09, 2012, 02:29:10 PM »
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hahahahahahahahahahaha!    You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login******-president?post=54145161

Yeah I saw a bit of this on my Twitter feed on Election Night. Just awful. The sad thing is that there are people (even people I know) that just don't like Obama because he's black.

Offline The Unknown Caller

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Re: Let the race for 2012 begin...
« Reply #4960 on: November 09, 2012, 02:57:19 PM »
Well, we've now reached a part where the defining question of elections is whether one party can eke out enough support among a single racial group - and increasingly, a single gender, a single religion and even a single age group - to win a national election. Its difficult to overstress this; the entire Republican electoral coalition is overwhelmingly white, increasingly male and increasingly above the age of 40. The Democratic coalition, by contrast, is Hispanic-American, African-American, Asian-American, Jewish, athiest, increasingly female... oh, and by the way, also contains a majority of Catholics and a higher % of white people than the Republican coalition has of any ethnic minority.

Twice now, the answer to whether that amazingly narrow coalition can triumph over a much broader one in a national election has basically been "No, and it can't even come that close"... but that very narrow coalition was enough to win a set of midterm elections when they were low turnout and ethnic minorities, young people and women did not turn up as much.

Online briscoetheque

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Re: Let the race for 2012 begin...
« Reply #4961 on: November 09, 2012, 04:18:51 PM »
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Yeah I saw a bit of this on my Twitter feed on Election Night. Just awful. The sad thing is that there are people (even people I know) that just don't like Obama because he's black.

similarly though there are those that like him simply because he is

Offline The Unknown Caller

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Re: Let the race for 2012 begin...
« Reply #4962 on: November 09, 2012, 05:20:39 PM »
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Yeah I saw a bit of this on my Twitter feed on Election Night. Just awful. The sad thing is that there are people (even people I know) that just don't like Obama because he's black.

similarly though there are those that like him simply because he is

If polling is to be believed (And Tuesday was pretty phenomenal evidence that it is), there are a lot more of the former than the latter.

PS: In an unrelated note, looks like it's gonna be D+8 in the House- better than most analysts predicted, and this despite colossal gerrymandering!
« Last Edit: November 09, 2012, 05:23:44 PM by The Unknown Caller »

Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: Let the race for 2012 begin...
« Reply #4963 on: November 09, 2012, 05:57:23 PM »
It's interesting that 93% of black voters voted for Barack Obama in the presidential election at a time when unemployment amongst blacks is at 14% and far higher than the national average.  Black voters must really like his personality.

Offline Drummer Boy

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Re: Let the race for 2012 begin...
« Reply #4964 on: November 09, 2012, 06:05:28 PM »
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It's interesting that 93% of black voters voted for Barack Obama in the presidential election at a time when unemployment amongst blacks is at 14% and far higher than the national average.  Black voters must really like his personality.

Either that, or they thought they would be in an even worse position with Romney.