Let the race for 2012 begin...

[The Unknown Caller]

I must say though, the original post there is typical of a lot of what I've seen from Limbaugh et al, this "Makers vs the Takers" thing. It's rather astounding; we have literally reaches the place where people are blaming the electorate for not electing their chosen candidates. Here's a hint which is fairly universal in politics in all times and all places; if you get hammered in an election, blame yourself and start rethinking your ideas, policies and approaches. Blaming your opponents is lazy. Blaming the electorate is both lazy and stupid.

And yes, that's as true for the left as it is for the right.

[Inishfree]

Exactly, Briscoe. I think a lot of the conservatives (especially religious evangelicals) have trouble seeing the world in shades of gray (I went to school in the US ). God of Christianity is a black and white kind of guy.

God of Evangelical Fundamentalist Christianity is a God of black and white.

I attend a Lutheran church with my boyfriend, who is applying to go to seminary next year and become a pastor.  Our God is not one of black and white.  Be careful not to lump all Christians into one group because, like Americans in general, we are not a unified and cohesive bunch.

I dont consider Lutheranism Evangelical Fundamentalism...

Also, I totally exclude United Church of Christ. I am totally okay with these newer Christians who DO see the multiple colors in the world and preach Christianity to a modern world without all the rigidity of the past. Unfortunately, not all Christians are so lenient with their beliefs. Ie, I dated a guy for too long who would tell you simply that it is not his to question God, God says gays are bad, and we must all accept that. I tried to point out the ridiculousness of some of the rules he espoused as God's truth, get him to think around it, and he was very tight lipped with "Well, this is what God said about it. We cant question it. Questioning is the devil trying to turn us away." True quote, swear it.

But anyway, when I lump evangelical fundamentalists, I'm talking about those way right ones. I have many friends who are ministers of Christianity who are very liberal. And some very liberal Catholic friends as well. So, you know. I dont hate Christianity.... I could even go to a liberal Christian church.

I'm sorry that I left out the evangelical fundamentalist part!

You forgot those christians in Maryland!

With the majority vote for Gay Marriage and The Dream Act.  We are now the most liberal state in the U.S.  Oh my gosh, dogs and cats living in sin.........   And the children of immigrants, who's parents live in and pay taxes to the State of Maryland, have in state tuition for college.  How dare we?

I voted for both....

[imaginary friend]

I must say though, the original post there is typical of a lot of what I've seen from Limbaugh et al, this "Makers vs the Takers" thing. It's rather astounding; we have literally reaches the place where people are blaming the electorate for not electing their chosen candidates. Here's a hint which is fairly universal in politics in all times and all places; if you get hammered in an election, blame yourself and start rethinking your ideas, policies and approaches. Blaming your opponents is lazy. Blaming the electorate is both lazy and stupid.

And yes, that's as true for the left as it is for the right.

yeah, the original post being commented on is worthless.

[imaginary friend]

sorry for the double post, but I just read this account of a small-town Romney campaign worker, and I found it oddly touching:   http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/gops-red-america-forced-to-rethink-its-image-of-country/2012/11/11/3bb15fb8-2ab0-11e2-bab2-eda299503684_print.html

[Inishfree]

sorry for the double post, but I just read this account of a small-town Romney campaign worker, and I found it oddly touching:   http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/gops-red-america-forced-to-rethink-its-image-of-country/2012/11/11/3bb15fb8-2ab0-11e2-bab2-eda299503684_print.html

Good article, thanks for posting it.

[Maximus]

As the GOp moves forward:

We need to take the social issues (except abortion) off the Table

Go ahead and legalize Gay marriage (as long as no Church or Church owned entity has to recognize it)
Go ahead and legalize MJ (who cares)

My question to the Pro Choice crowd--If the GOP said OK we will stop our opposition to Abortion, if Abortion was only legal in the case of Rape, Incest, health or Mental health of the Mother--would you be ok with that. Because they would be woman’s health issues, not abortion for Birth Control.

would this entail catholic hospitals holding the legal right to turn away children of gay parents?

aside from the specific issues you are right conservatives need to take moral issues off the table, make them a state by state issue if you like but get rid of them as a blanket policy for the whole country.

they are a gateway issue for many who dont really start to consider the merits of your positions on the more complicated areas (and probably more relevant for a government) because of their abhorrence of how these peoples morals propose to restrict their rights.

No of course not, no one can refuse care, and trust me the religion that serves the poor and India, the Aids victims in Africa, that rund the largest charities in the world would turn anyone away. What I mean by not recognizing means, if a gay person works for him they don't have to give benefits to the spouse, they don't have to place foster children with gay families etc, etc, nothing when it comes to care.

[Maximus]

I must say though, the original post there is typical of a lot of what I've seen from Limbaugh et al, this "Makers vs the Takers" thing. It's rather astounding; we have literally reaches the place where people are blaming the electorate for not electing their chosen candidates. Here's a hint which is fairly universal in politics in all times and all places; if you get hammered in an election, blame yourself and start rethinking your ideas, policies and approaches. Blaming your opponents is lazy. Blaming the electorate is both lazy and stupid.

And yes, that's as true for the left as it is for the right.

I agree

[Maximus]

Jindall!!!!

That was a great speech, as a Populist Republican I was very happy--That is the part of my party that has been missing since the nineties

If you read my posts that is exactly what I think-- Big GVT, BIG Business, Big Pharma Big anything will screw over the American people.

It's funny you guys think I am a right wing nut, however on one of the other message boards I post one--OBOB a Catholic Site, I am called a liberal.

[MarsGirl~Descends to Hell for a bottle of milk]

Big Business does concern me.

[Maximus]

Big Business does concern me.

It should because they can crush your walnuts just as bad as big GVT--

[Inishfree]

As the GOp moves forward:

We need to take the social issues (except abortion) off the Table

Go ahead and legalize Gay marriage (as long as no Church or Church owned entity has to recognize it)
Go ahead and legalize MJ (who cares)

My question to the Pro Choice crowd--If the GOP said OK we will stop our opposition to Abortion, if Abortion was only legal in the case of Rape, Incest, health or Mental health of the Mother--would you be ok with that. Because they would be woman’s health issues, not abortion for Birth Control.

would this entail catholic hospitals holding the legal right to turn away children of gay parents?

aside from the specific issues you are right conservatives need to take moral issues off the table, make them a state by state issue if you like but get rid of them as a blanket policy for the whole country.

they are a gateway issue for many who dont really start to consider the merits of your positions on the more complicated areas (and probably more relevant for a government) because of their abhorrence of how these peoples morals propose to restrict their rights.

No of course not, no one can refuse care, and trust me the religion that serves the poor and India, the Aids victims in Africa, that rund the largest charities in the world would turn anyone away. What I mean by not recognizing means, if a gay person works for him they don't have to give benefits to the spouse, they don't have to place foster children with gay families etc, etc, nothing when it comes to care.

Max,

I'm not sure of what state you live in.  But, in Maryland I believe that the Foster Care program is run by the state and not so much by Catholic Charities.  Here, Catholic Charities focuses more on the homeless, under employed and seniors.   

[Droo]

Are we still talking about this?

[Inishfree]

Are we still talking about this?

Yep and so are you.

Children flourish in a home where they are loved.  Gay, straight, bottom line. 

How many kids are taken away from so called parent/parents who abuse them? 

[briscoetheque]

Great stuff from Maddow...

[MarsGirl~Descends to Hell for a bottle of milk]

Big Business does concern me.

It should because they can crush your walnuts just as bad as big GVT--

You got that right!!!

My fiance is a small business owner (he has no employees, it's just him). He gets taxed like he's a big business. I mean, seriously, last year 40% of his income when to taxes. Bleh. Hopefully some of that is alleviated now that we bought a house and can deduct his work space which is bigger than he had in his apartment. And, also, we have that whole mortgage deduction.

Still. I get scared when people talk of a corporations taking over things like aid to people in replacement of FEMA. No big corporation is going to do that.