U2 in the 90s

[The Exile]

Let's be pretty blunt here; it's very well documented that people tend to idolise the period when they were in their own prime and bemoan the state of music since then, while discounting music before then. Yes, you have some people who will not fall into that, and no it doesn't make your opinion any less worthy if it happens to coincide with that, but let's bear it in mind. It's why almost everyone thinks that the era when they became a big U2 fan was the TRUE golden age of U2.

I became a huge U2 fan in the '80s, but then the '90s came and ratched it all up several notches. So there.

PS - My observation is that the only people whose favorite era is '00s are those who were too young to be fans during the '80s or '90s. Not that all young people prefer the '00s, but most who do are young.

[Zoost]

Let's be pretty blunt here; it's very well documented that people tend to idolise the period when they were in their own prime and bemoan the state of music since then, while discounting music before then. Yes, you have some people who will not fall into that, and no it doesn't make your opinion any less worthy if it happens to coincide with that, but let's bear it in mind. It's why almost everyone thinks that the era when they became a big U2 fan was the TRUE golden age of U2.

I became a huge U2 fan in the '80s, but then the '90s came and ratched it all up several notches. So there.

PS - My observation is that the only people whose favorite era is '00s are those who were too young to be fans during the '80s or '90s. Not that all young people prefer the '00s, but most who do are young.

Very well said Exile.

[The Unknown Caller]

You used the fact that the forum considered it a success as an argument for it's artistic validity! 

...No I didn't? I stated that I didn't agree with you that the forum didn't think it was a success. That's all I said. Just before that, I explicitly rejected the idea that popularity = quality.

The poll you cited was as follows:

48% yes
32% no

Half of 48 is 24 - not a significant majority I'm sure you'll agree 

...No, you're looking at votes, not %s. 32 people voted that it was a greatest hits tour, 48 voted that it wasn't- meaning that 60% of those who voted did not see it as a greatest hits tour.

PS - My observation is that the only people whose favorite era is '00s are those who were too young to be fans during the '80s or '90s. Not that all young people prefer the '00s, but most who do are young.

Not sure that I agree with you there- there are at least a few people whose favourite decade is the 80s who put the 00s above the 90s, I think.

[The Exile]

PS - My observation is that the only people whose favorite era is '00s are those who were too young to be fans during the '80s or '90s. Not that all young people prefer the '00s, but most who do are young.

Not sure that I agree with you there- there are at least a few people whose favourite decade is the 80s who put the 00s above the 90s, I think.

That's beside my point, which is that the only people whose favorite era is the '00s are those too young to have followed the band earlier than that.

[The Unknown Caller]

I think you could probably make a very similar argument that most of those who prefer the 90s - not all but most- are those who weren't old enough to follow the band from the start. Not really sure what it demonstrates, except that people gravitate towards 'their' U2.

[The Exile]

Not really sure what it demonstrates, except that people gravitate towards 'their' U2.

Wasn't that the point you were reminding us all of earlier? My point is that the '90s were so good that they won over erstwhile '80s U2 fans like me, as well as loads of younger fans who weren't born early enough to have been there.

Contrariwise, the '00s are favored only by those for whom that is "their" era.

By dismissing it as all subjective, you're minimizing the objective superiority of certain eras over others, is what I'm saying.

[The Unknown Caller]

Not really sure what it demonstrates, except that people gravitate towards 'their' U2.

Wasn't that the point you were reminding us all of earlier? My point is that the '90s were so good that they won over erstwhile '80s U2 fans like me, as well as loads of younger fans who weren't born early enough to have been there.

Contrariwise, the '00s are favored only by those for whom that is "their" era.

By dismissing it as all subjective, you're minimizing the objective superiority of certain eras over others, is what I'm saying.

Except that it seems more than a mite suspicious that you're trying to portray what is essentially your era as the 'objectively superior' one. (I'm just going by what you've said before which has implied that although you first got into them i nthe 80s, you felt that you were the perfect age in the 90s when they were doing that stuff) Again, my problem is that I disagree with your thesis; plenty of people from the 90s and the 00s see the 80s as the best U2. I myself am *probably* one of them.

To be honest, all this really looks like is you trying to prove that your personal favourite U2 is objectively the best. And I really don't agree with that.

[The Exile]

I disagree with your thesis; plenty of people from the 90s and the 00s see the 80s as the best U2. I myself am *probably* one of them.

Again, that's not my thesis. I have been saying all along that my point is that the '00s are generally favored ONLY by those too young to have experienced anything earlier. And to the contrary, the '80s and '90s (due to their superiority) are good enough to lure U2 fans of any age. You are a case in point.

To translate this into actual examples, it is not uncommon to see:

1. A long-time U2 fan who prefers the '80s.

2. A long-time U2 fan who prefers the '90s

3. A post-2000 U2 fan who prefers the '80s

4. A post-2000 U2 fan who prefers the '90s

5. A post-2000 U2 fan who prefers the '00s.

But what we rarely see is a long-time U2 fan who prefers the '00s. You may call this unfair since I am saying that MY era of U2 is superlative, but if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

[Boom Cha!]

Aah...the '90s. I wish I were a teenager in that decade. U2 at their finest!

[U2-obsessed and proud]

I'm happy with when I joined the U2 world 

[Tumbling Dice]

I disagree with your thesis; plenty of people from the 90s and the 00s see the 80s as the best U2. I myself am *probably* one of them.

Again, that's not my thesis. I have been saying all along that my point is that the '00s are generally favored ONLY by those too young to have experienced anything earlier. And to the contrary, the '80s and '90s (due to their superiority) are good enough to lure U2 fans of any age. You are a case in point.

To translate this into actual examples, it is not uncommon to see:

1. A long-time U2 fan who prefers the '80s.

2. A long-time U2 fan who prefers the '90s

3. A post-2000 U2 fan who prefers the '80s

4. A post-2000 U2 fan who prefers the '90s

5. A post-2000 U2 fan who prefers the '00s.

But what we rarely see is a long-time U2 fan who prefers the '00s. You may call this unfair since I am saying that MY era of U2 is superlative, but if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

Just a bit of research to put meat on the bone:

http://forum.atu2.com/index.php/topic,13989.0.html

[The Exile]

Thank you. Out of almost 100 people polled, only 5 prefer the '00s who became fans earlier than that. And 55% prefer the '90s regardless of what era they were introduced to the band.

[The Unknown Caller]

Interesting poll actually, really cool to see that visualised. However, I still fail to make the leap from "popular opinion" into "objective quality"- and I honestly suspect that you wouldn't be making that leap if it didn't agree with your personal feelings on the matter. Also, the survey tells us nothing about people's second favourite eras, or about overall views on each era. It is entirely possible, for instance, for two people to vote in identical ways and have an identical 'ranking' of eras, but one regards all three as VERY close (As I myself do), and another sees one as miles better than the second, which is miles better than the third. And that has a profound impact on how each era is viewed.

IE: It is possible to draw the conclusion that, for example, most U2 fans from earlier eras don't like the 00s very much at all, OR the conclusion that most U2 fans from earlier eras love the 00s but not *quite* as much. Both are equally valid interpretations. And neither tells us anything about objective quality.

I also wonder, incidentally, about what that tells us about the demographic here online, and how far that represents the average U2 fan. (For instance, a comparably small number from the 90s and 00s cite the 80s as their best decade, and yet Ithink a survey of most professional critical opinion would probably rank it first as Zooropa and Pop tend to be overlooked) Really a very interesting poll which you can very much go in-depth on!

[The Exile]

Interesting poll actually, really cool to see that visualised. However, I still fail to make the leap from "popular opinion" into "objective quality"- and I honestly suspect that you wouldn't be making that leap if it didn't agree with your personal feelings on the matter. Also, the survey tells us nothing about people's second favourite eras, or about overall views on each era. It is entirely possible, for instance, for two people to vote in identical ways and have an identical 'ranking' of eras, but one regards all three as VERY close (As I myself do), and another sees one as miles better than the second, which is miles better than the third. And that has a profound impact on how each era is viewed.

IE: It is possible to draw the conclusion that, for example, most U2 fans from earlier eras don't like the 00s very much at all, OR the conclusion that most U2 fans from earlier eras love the 00s but not *quite* as much. Both are equally valid interpretations. And neither tells us anything about objective quality.

Of course, it's difficult to weigh art by some objective measure, I concede that point wholeheartedly. But I still think it's wrong for you to say that all the love for the '80s and '90s, and all the hatred for the '00s, is purely due to when people became fans. Dice's poll shows that there is a LOT of allegiance-shifting between becoming a fan during one era and preferring another. The huge exception to that is the '00s. While lots of people (26/96) shifted their allegiance from the '00s, only 5 shifted their allegiance to them.

[The Unknown Caller]

See, I think you just proved my point exactly by deciding that the poll showed 'hatred for the 00s' when of course it could just as easily have showed that everyone LOVED the 00s but preferred the 80s and 90s. You just read into it what you wanted to.