Author Topic: Get on Your Boots may have ruined U2  (Read 7281 times)

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Offline Lebowski

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Re: Get on Your Boots may have ruined U2
« Reply #255 on: April 15, 2012, 11:56:30 AM »
I'm still taken aback by some of Sugarcube's posts. If Coldplay CHOOSE to play arenas in the US then why are they CHOOSING to play stadiums in the UK?

I know, it makes no sense.  They apparently do not care about giving UK fans that loving and intimate experience that they like giving American fans, right?  It is a completely arbitrary way of thinking.

Offline TheSceneoftheAccident

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Re: Get on Your Boots may have ruined U2
« Reply #256 on: April 15, 2012, 11:59:47 AM »
I think they COULD play stadiums in the States. But I have a different reasoning for believing they haven't done it yet. Like I've said, it's purely because they're uncertain as to whether they could actually fill the stadium or not. That's all I think there is to it. If they knew for a fact they could play stadiums, they no doubt would.

Sugarcube

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Re: Get on Your Boots may have ruined U2
« Reply #257 on: April 15, 2012, 12:05:31 PM »

Next, longevity - neither of us know. You think U2 will be remembered better in 20 years time and I think both bands will be remembered. Just because Coldplay haven't been around as long at this moment in time, it doesn't mean they will have less longevity when both bands have long since split.

That is absurd.  Two bands both being remembered does not mean their longevity is equal.  Longevity is measured in years.  You are confusing longevity with staying power and aging well.

But get back to me when Coldplay has been around for 32 years, and as for how they will be remembered, Coldplay is already a joke, a punchline, etc. in certain circles.  I doubt anyone would make the "Do you know how I know you're gay? Because you listen to Coldplay" joke about U2 the way they did in 40-Year Old Virgin.  Even right now, in their prime, most of their fans view them as being a nice band, not world beaters who are making music that will be remembered for decades.  To suggest otherwise is just ridiculous.  If you want to think it anyway, that is fine, but I guarantee you are one of very few.  I'll bet if you asked 100 people on the street to name 5 Coldplay songs, you'd be lucky to find 5 who could do it.

Next - the love experience - why is that funny?

Do I really need to explain why that is funny?


Finally, the stadium tour. So, you concede Coldplay can put on a stadium tour. Just because it might not be as big as U2's stadium tour it doesn't mean they couldn't put on a stadium tour spanning different continents. Wether they choose to do so is another matter. For Coldplay it's all about choice. This isn't about wether Coldplay can put on a bigger stadium tour than U2 - its about wether they can put on a stadium tour at all. Finally we're all agreed!

Using your lower standard, just about any popular band can do a stadium well, since how well it does is apparently insignificant, so if it makes you happy to know that Coldplay is one of many bands who could possibly do a stadium tour, enjoy.

How is my longevity post absurd? I'm talking about when both bands have long since split up. You're biased as you clearly prefer U2 to Coldplay. I'm talking about the longevity of their respective legacies. Your opinion is only an opinion. I know lots of people (in fact nearly everyone I know) who think U2 are a joke now. I personally wouldn't say U2 are a joke as they still write the odd good tune but they're fast becoming one. You're just talking about personal opinions. Equally how each band will be remembered is also a matter of opinion as neither band have got to that stage yet. Please don't consider subjective opinion to be ridiculous when you don't agree with it.

Regarding the love experience - you just can't accept Chris Martin is a dreamboat and bonbon isn't.

I don't understand your last point about stadiums - both U2 and Coldplay can play a stadium well. Doesn't mean Coldplay can't mount a successful stadium tour as we've all agreed they can.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2012, 12:11:52 PM by Sugarcube »

Sugarcube

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Re: Get on Your Boots may have ruined U2
« Reply #258 on: April 15, 2012, 12:10:59 PM »
I'm still taken aback by some of Sugarcube's posts. If Coldplay CHOOSE to play arenas in the US then why are they CHOOSING to play stadiums in the UK?

I know, it makes no sense.  They apparently do not care about giving UK fans that loving and intimate experience that they like giving American fans, right?  It is a completely arbitrary way of thinking.

Coldplay are a UK band. They play stadiums sometimes and arenas in the UK. Of course they like to give their home fans a more intimate loving experience when they choose to. And unlike U2, Coldplay don't B.S. about loving their own country while actively avoiding paying taxes into it. But that's another matter.

U2 played a mixture of stadiums and arenas on ZOOTV - presumably they did that out of choice. So do Coldplay. For Coldplay it's all about choice.

Offline tigerfan41

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Re: Get on Your Boots may have ruined U2
« Reply #259 on: April 15, 2012, 12:15:30 PM »
Sugarcube isn't going to give you a real reason for why that is, Scene. He'd rather just take whatever you say and spin it to make Coldplay look good. If you're looking for a good, logical argument, it's not going to happen here.  ;)

Sugarcube, I'm curious about how the last 3 U2 CDs could be considered blatant grabs for hits much like Mylo and Viva are? Let's name the singles from the U2 CDs--or at least those that did well on the radio. Beautiful Day, Stuck, Vertigo, Boots. That's it. All the rest of the songs on each CD aren't radio-friendly songs. Compare that to the last 3-4 Coldplay CDs. Hmm, Talk, Fix You, Speed of Sound, Lovers in Japan, Viva, Paradise, Every Tear Drop and I'm sure at least a few others from Mylo that I'm neglecting to mention because I haven't touched that CD since the first few times I listened to it.

There's a reason why people make jokes about Coldplay: because the band has almost become a parody of itself. I remember when Rush first came out back in 2002. It was very well received by critics and the fans because it was one hell of a CD. People respected Coldplay back then because they were something different. Of course, there were those who called them U2-lite, but for the most part, they were highly regarded.

Then came X&Y and the ascend higher into the charts (and descent in terms of credibility and respect) began. It's sort of like what happened with Linkin Park. When they first came on the scene, people liked them. By 2007/2008 when they made the choice to record bland crap that got them more radio airplay, people began to dislike them. Same thing with Coldplay, except now they've picked up a few new fans (teenie boppers and those who think every artist on pop radio is "awesome.").

You're still not answering my question, Sugarcube: if Coldplay truly cares about their fans, why do they charge so much for tickets? I'm not even saying the Stubhub thing is their fault, although if there is any truth to the rumor that Ticketmaster gives Stubhub scalpers choice seats and gets a kickback for it, then it kind of is. My point is also, most fans prefer to have GA because it gives them the chance to see their favorite artist up close even if they can't afford to pay for floor seats (especially since the scalpers tend to snatch the closest seats up, so it becomes a $300-$400 ordeal just to get close to the stage).

As for Chris Martin being more of a "dreamboat" than Bono. Looks don't even factor into the equation for me. If they did, I wouldn't like half the artists I like. Bono's a decent looking guy now, and aside from his mullet/bad hair days in the 80s, he looked good in his younger days. But yes, I guess Martin is a "dreamboat" if you consider the awkward, short pink shirt wearing geek look to be attractive.  ;) Also curious to see what Martin looks like in 20 years. Hopefully he ages well, unlike many rock stars.

One last thing: just because you can play 4-5 stadium gigs in the U.S., it doesn't mean you're capable of a full stadium tour of the U.S., as the Rolling Stones and U2 have done in the past. 4-5 gigs is not a full tour. So to say Coldplay could have a full stadium tour (20+ dates) in the U.S. is utterly false when they can't even sell out arenas or come close to it in many cities. If we considered 4-5 stadium gigs to be a full tour, people like Lady Gaga, One Direction or *insert pop artist here* would be "stadium" touring artists. But they're not because only a few bands are able to do a full blown stadium tour, and Coldplay isn't one of them.

Offline Lebowski

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Re: Get on Your Boots may have ruined U2
« Reply #260 on: April 15, 2012, 12:42:22 PM »
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How is my longevity post absurd?

Because you don't understand what longevity means.  I believe I've explained this already.

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Doesn't mean Coldplay can't mount a successful stadium tour as we've all agreed they can.

Based on your lower standards, maybe, but on realistic ones, that is still highly debatable.  Stop putting words in our mouths.

And great post, tigerfan; you nailed it. 
« Last Edit: April 15, 2012, 12:44:12 PM by Lebowski »

Offline @lmighty DS

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Re: Get on Your Boots may have ruined U2
« Reply #261 on: April 15, 2012, 12:53:33 PM »
Sugarcube isn't going to give you a real reason for why that is, Scene. He'd rather just take whatever you say and spin it to make Coldplay look good. If you're looking for a good, logical argument, it's not going to happen here.  ;)

Sugarcube, I'm curious about how the last 3 U2 CDs could be considered blatant grabs for hits much like Mylo and Viva are? Let's name the singles from the U2 CDs--or at least those that did well on the radio. Beautiful Day, Stuck, Vertigo, Boots. That's it. All the rest of the songs on each CD aren't radio-friendly songs.

seriously? the majority of ALL the songs on ATYCLB/HTDAAB <ESP. Bomb> are custom made for the radio.

Sugarcube

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Re: Get on Your Boots may have ruined U2
« Reply #262 on: April 15, 2012, 12:57:24 PM »
Sugarcube isn't going to give you a real reason for why that is, Scene. He'd rather just take whatever you say and spin it to make Coldplay look good. If you're looking for a good, logical argument, it's not going to happen here.  ;)

Sugarcube, I'm curious about how the last 3 U2 CDs could be considered blatant grabs for hits much like Mylo and Viva are? Let's name the singles from the U2 CDs--or at least those that did well on the radio. Beautiful Day, Stuck, Vertigo, Boots. That's it. All the rest of the songs on each CD aren't radio-friendly songs. Compare that to the last 3-4 Coldplay CDs. Hmm, Talk, Fix You, Speed of Sound, Lovers in Japan, Viva, Paradise, Every Tear Drop and I'm sure at least a few others from Mylo that I'm neglecting to mention because I haven't touched that CD since the first few times I listened to it.

There's a reason why people make jokes about Coldplay: because the band has almost become a parody of itself. I remember when Rush first came out back in 2002. It was very well received by critics and the fans because it was one hell of a CD. People respected Coldplay back then because they were something different. Of course, there were those who called them U2-lite, but for the most part, they were highly regarded.

Then came X&Y and the ascend higher into the charts (and descent in terms of credibility and respect) began. It's sort of like what happened with Linkin Park. When they first came on the scene, people liked them. By 2007/2008 when they made the choice to record bland crap that got them more radio airplay, people began to dislike them. Same thing with Coldplay, except now they've picked up a few new fans (teenie boppers and those who think every artist on pop radio is "awesome.").

You're still not answering my question, Sugarcube: if Coldplay truly cares about their fans, why do they charge so much for tickets? I'm not even saying the Stubhub thing is their fault, although if there is any truth to the rumor that Ticketmaster gives Stubhub scalpers choice seats and gets a kickback for it, then it kind of is. My point is also, most fans prefer to have GA because it gives them the chance to see their favorite artist up close even if they can't afford to pay for floor seats (especially since the scalpers tend to snatch the closest seats up, so it becomes a $300-$400 ordeal just to get close to the stage).

As for Chris Martin being more of a "dreamboat" than Bono. Looks don't even factor into the equation for me. If they did, I wouldn't like half the artists I like. Bono's a decent looking guy now, and aside from his mullet/bad hair days in the 80s, he looked good in his younger days. But yes, I guess Martin is a "dreamboat" if you consider the awkward, short pink shirt wearing geek look to be attractive.  ;) Also curious to see what Martin looks like in 20 years. Hopefully he ages well, unlike many rock stars.

One last thing: just because you can play 4-5 stadium gigs in the U.S., it doesn't mean you're capable of a full stadium tour of the U.S., as the Rolling Stones and U2 have done in the past. 4-5 gigs is not a full tour. So to say Coldplay could have a full stadium tour (20+ dates) in the U.S. is utterly false when they can't even sell out arenas or come close to it in many cities. If we considered 4-5 stadium gigs to be a full tour, people like Lady Gaga, One Direction or *insert pop artist here* would be "stadium" touring artists. But they're not because only a few bands are able to do a full blown stadium tour, and Coldplay isn't one of them.

Your opinion about Coldplays recent output if totally subjective. You can argue the toss all you want. Personally, I think most of U2's output post POP is by and large, terrible. That doesn't mean you have to also. It's just what I think.

Now then, regarding Coldplay being a joke. I dare say there are many who think that. Equally there are many who think U2 are a joke. Certainly over the past few years, U2 and bono in particular have become ridiculous. I don't actually know anyone who particularly likes U2s output although some like their older tunes. Most agree bono is a bit of a bufoon. Again, this is all subjective so why are we debating it?

Regarding tickets - U2 charge more than Coldplay. Hence 360's status as highest grossing tour to date. Money doesn't grow on tress you know. You are mad if you think GA gives fans a chance to get close to the band. Are you suggesting a higher priced ticket for a seat near the stage wouldn't give a better view? I'd have been better off watching 360 on a tv screen given where I was standing for 360 in the GA area.

Are you saying you fancy bono vox?

What constitutes a 'full blown' stadium tour? Presumably you think 360 does as it fits your rather limited argument. If Coldplay can do a stadium tour of key cities, that for me constitutes a stadium tour. We've all agreed they can do a stadium tour. They only play stadiums when they choose to however. Sometimes they choose to play arenas in cities they could easily sell out stadium dates. For Coldplay it's all about choice.

Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: Get on Your Boots may have ruined U2
« Reply #263 on: April 15, 2012, 12:59:42 PM »
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How is my longevity post absurd?

Because you don't understand what longevity means.  I believe I've explained this already.

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Doesn't mean Coldplay can't mount a successful stadium tour as we've all agreed they can.

Based on your lower standards, maybe, but on realistic ones, that is still highly debatable.  Stop putting words in our mouths.

And great post, tigerfan; you nailed it. 

Tiger hasn't nailed anything.  The fact is Coldplay could play a 30+ date stadium tour of North America if they chose to and still make money, even with shows that weren't sold out.  But quite frankly, why would they want to when they can play a lot more shows in arenas to the same number of people and give their fans a deeply sensual experience.  I think there is a cultural reason why Coldplay - and other artists - choose to play stadiums in Europe, but play arenas in North America on the same tour, which is not necessarily down to popularity.  Although, as Sugarbaby has pointed out, in the past Coldplay have chosen to play arenas in the UK.

And as to who is the biggest dreamboat; neither Bono nor Chris Martin can hold a candle to The Edge.  When I look into his eyes, he takes me to the clouds above.

 
« Last Edit: April 15, 2012, 01:01:14 PM by Tumbling Dice »

Sugarcube

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Re: Get on Your Boots may have ruined U2
« Reply #264 on: April 15, 2012, 01:00:28 PM »
Quote
How is my longevity post absurd?

Because you don't understand what longevity means.  I believe I've explained this already.

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Doesn't mean Coldplay can't mount a successful stadium tour as we've all agreed they can.

Based on your lower standards, maybe, but on realistic ones, that is still highly debatable.  Stop putting words in our mouths.

And great post, tigerfan; you nailed it.

As you know, I was referring to the longevity of their respective legacies.

You're resorting to unpleasantness now so I won't be responding to your posts any more.

Offline Lebowski

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Re: Get on Your Boots may have ruined U2
« Reply #265 on: April 15, 2012, 01:07:57 PM »
That's your right, but you need to stop saying that we've all agreed that Coldplay can do a stadium tour.  If you don't like unpleasantness, then stop lying about what people are saying.

Also, to get back on topic for a moment, while Get On Your Boots was an awful lead single, compressing the record to death did not help their cause either.  It can be hard to enjoy a record when it sounds like you have blankets over your speakers the whole time.  It's a shame that U2 have stooped to this; their records back in the day always sounded so good.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2012, 01:10:28 PM by Lebowski »

Offline Lebowski

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Re: Get on Your Boots may have ruined U2
« Reply #266 on: April 15, 2012, 01:16:57 PM »
Tiger hasn't nailed anything.  The fact is Coldplay could play a 30+ date stadium tour of North America if they chose to and still make money, even with shows that weren't sold out. 

Still debatable.  First, they'd have to find a promoter that would guarantee them money, and that might not be easy to find a promoter who is willing to lose his ass on a band that doesn't have any kind of track record of stadium shows in America, which might happen if prices are high and sales are not...the band would make money, but the promoters would not, and would the promoters be willing to take that risk on an unproven stadium band?  To my knowledge, the only rock bands that have proven that they can consistently do stadium tours and make everyone happy are Pink Floyd, U2 and the Rolling Stones.  And Coldplay is not in the same stratosphere as those bands.  Even Radiohead, as awesome as they are, would have a hard time doing well with a stadium tour here in the States.

So, they might have to take a hit and/or have somewhat low ticket prices to sell more tickets to enable them to not lose money or even break even.  And would they do that, have super low ticket prices like U2 did on the ZOO TV tour to make the fans happy, at their own expense?  Not sure about that one.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2012, 01:20:03 PM by Lebowski »

Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: Get on Your Boots may have ruined U2
« Reply #267 on: April 15, 2012, 01:35:27 PM »
And would they do that, have super low ticket prices like U2 did on the ZOO TV tour to make the fans happy, at their own expense?  Not sure about that one.

U2 charged £22.50 for a stadium show on the Zooropa tour in 1993.  That same year, I paid £23.50 a ticket for great 'seats' to see Prince in arenas.  So if that was a 'super low' ticket price back in 1993 - which it wasn't - then Prince must have been the bargain of the decade.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2012, 01:37:12 PM by Tumbling Dice »

Offline singnomore

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Re: Get on Your Boots may have ruined U2
« Reply #268 on: April 15, 2012, 02:33:22 PM »

Your opinion about Coldplays recent output if totally subjective. You can argue the toss all you want. Personally, I think most of U2's output post POP is by and large, terrible. That doesn't mean you have to also. It's just what I think.


Indeed it is all about opinions not who believes they are right or wrong so one to remember perhaps...

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Re: Get on Your Boots may have ruined U2
« Reply #269 on: April 15, 2012, 04:50:57 PM »
its not a particular song or album that is causing a decline in U2's music , In my opinion it is the Bono's/band's apparent inability to realise that Radio no longer governs whether a song/album is a hit and Top of the Pops is long dead. Bono's idea of relevancy by creating radio hits is like having a tail wagging a dog rather than a dog wagging its tail , someone needs to tell him to sing from the soul and not for the masses.