Author Topic: Is 'Moment of Surrender' a U2 classic?  (Read 2751 times)

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Offline stuc

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Re: Is 'Moment of Surrender' a U2 classic?
« Reply #30 on: June 29, 2012, 02:38:14 PM »
Classic no... It reminds me of So Cruel, a decent song and nothing more.  The only song that I think could end up a classic off of NLOTH will be Magnificent.
Wo wo wo, steady on, So Cruel is more than a decent song....

Offline emalvick

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Re: Is 'Moment of Surrender' a U2 classic?
« Reply #31 on: June 29, 2012, 03:27:07 PM »
For me, it is. But for the general public: definitely not, since it didn't become a single release and therefore is unknown to the majority of the public. 

One could use that argument against Bad.... but, it is a U2 classic.   Only time will really tell (and probably tell us no) how much of a classic it is.  Does the band like it enough to play it in 10 years, and I don't mean in a revisiting way as they have been with some more obscure tracks.  Will Moment of Surrender ever receive the play of songs like Bad, One, Streets, Pride, etc.... I doubt it.  In light of that, Vertigo may in fact be the last U2 classic song at the time being. 

Offline U2-obsessed and proud

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Re: Is 'Moment of Surrender' a U2 classic?
« Reply #32 on: June 29, 2012, 03:27:45 PM »
In terms of song quality, yes.

Offline Chip

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Re: Is 'Moment of Surrender' a U2 classic?
« Reply #33 on: June 29, 2012, 11:05:47 PM »
Yes, it's a classic U2 song -- whether it's recognized as such by the general public is a different matter. (And the answer to that is surely "no.") You run into problems if you tie the question of whether something's a classic to the general public. For example, "The Unforgettable Fire" (song) and "MLK" were classic U2 to probably most fans in the mid-to-late '80s, but the first one received a mixed reception on the 360 tour and the second one has since become obscure to the general public. Probably most U2 diehard fans would call "One Tree Hill" a classic, but it's not well-known to the general public. I guess you could create two classic lists, one for the casual fan and one for the devoted fan. There's justification for that.

Personally, I think "White as Snow" and "Cedars of Lebanon" are also U2 classics, and even more so than MOS.

Offline A_Fly_On_The_Wall

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Re: Is 'Moment of Surrender' a U2 classic?
« Reply #34 on: June 30, 2012, 07:27:10 AM »
It most certainly is.

Bono's best lyrics since Achtung, maybe of all time. A proper ballad exploding with emotion and one which I hope continues to be played live on U2's next tour.

Offline jick

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Re: Is 'Moment of Surrender' a U2 classic?
« Reply #35 on: June 30, 2012, 08:11:50 AM »
It most certainly is.

Bono's best lyrics since Achtung, maybe of all time. A proper ballad exploding with emotion and one which I hope continues to be played live on U2's next tour.

Best lyrics - ATM Machine. Isn't that redundant?

Cheers,

J

Offline briscoetheque

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Re: Is 'Moment of Surrender' a U2 classic?
« Reply #36 on: June 30, 2012, 09:01:44 AM »
Look, I don't mind the song, but it's incredibly hard to make a case for it as a U2 classic.

"One of your favourite songs" perhaps. "A standout song on the album"... that I can take too.

But it's not a U2 classic by any measure taken outside the confines of these four walls. Seriously you could put up a thread here suggesting that Street Mission is a U2 classic and you'd at least get some support,we're not exactly the Independent Monthly here...

The lyrics aren't particularly special - as Jick said - "I was punching in the numbers at the ATM machine" is hardly "If there's a bustle in your hedgerow" now, is it?

The music is one paced, it's a lengthy (I think misplaced) album track at 7 minutes. I think it would have fit nicely in the days of vinyl as a Side A closer.

Live, it lags a long way behind '40' and Love Is Blindness as a show closer. Even Kite which closed out the Australian Vertigo shows was superior in my opinion, and I most definitely prefer Moment of Surrender to Kite as song.

It will never be played live again.

Where does it fit? Play it early and it's a guaranteed mood killer. Play it in the middle and it's a toilet break or beer run. Play it at the end...it's been done and if you're going to repeat a closer it had better be iconic. 40 is that iconic closer, not Moment of Surrender.

I like the song - I fail to see how it lives up Eno's hyperbole about it being U2's best since One - but a classic it most certainly aint.

Offline The Unknown Caller

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Re: Is 'Moment of Surrender' a U2 classic?
« Reply #37 on: June 30, 2012, 09:19:20 AM »
Yes, and I think it's a very easy case to make when you look at how the band talk about it, how Eno talked about it and the general critical reaction to it. (Rolling Stone actually does matter for things like this, regardless of what some people may think of it)

Plus I think it has a chance somewhere north of 90% of appearing on future tours - not something I would have guessed when it was released, or when U2360 began, but which I'm now pretty convinced of given that they put it in a TV appearance, played it every single night without fail and even played it at Glastonbury. As for where it goes? Easy- somewhere in the middle / near the end of the main set, followed by an older and more universal classic. (Streets would be perfect)
« Last Edit: June 30, 2012, 09:22:55 AM by The Unknown Caller »

Offline MLP Midnight

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Re: Is 'Moment of Surrender' a U2 classic?
« Reply #38 on: June 30, 2012, 09:26:42 AM »
If they were to play the song again, I wonder if they would sort of shorten the intro and ending of the song if it were placed in the middle of a set?

I think they love it enough to bring it back again, but the song is so downbeat that it would be questionable where they could put a song like that. They experimented with a "middle of the order" downbeat song during 360, and it was called Your Blue Room. It did not stay very long.

However, this could be less conflicting if they do an arena tour.

Offline briscoetheque

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Re: Is 'Moment of Surrender' a U2 classic?
« Reply #39 on: June 30, 2012, 10:04:37 AM »
Yes, and I think it's a very easy case to make when you look at how the band talk about it, how Eno talked about it and the general critical reaction to it. (Rolling Stone actually does matter for things like this, regardless of what some people may think of it)

Every U2 release is a classic when it comes out, according to the band and Eno...again, I think that's hardly conclusive.

Can we agree that for a song to be a classic, it should at least be acknowledged by the wider music community outside of the general hardcore fan group? That's not to say there aren't incredible songs that non-fans don't know, but I think for something to be a classic, it should have some sort of reach out there into the gen-pop that means the casual music listener is aware of it, can hum a couple of bars of it.

I doubt many non-U2 fans could tell you what their last album was called, let along hum you a line of Moment of Surrender.

I'm really not saying it's a bad song, it's not. It's a really decent song.

But there's no way known it's in the echelon of U2 "classics" like Streets, New Years Day, One, Sunday Bloody Sunday, Pride, Bad, I Still Haven't Found, With or Without You, Desire, Bullet the Blue Sky, Beautiful Day, Mysterious Ways, Even Better Than the Real Thing, Stay... need I go on?

I'm not saying these are the greatest U2 songs, but they are most definitely U2's "Classics" outside the U2 fan bubble in which we live. Every one of those songs has reached the ears of listeners and stuck with them for years.

In 15 years time, no one but the hardest of hardcore U2 fans (ie us here) will be able to recall Moment of Surrender.

Q and Rolling Stone have happily beat U2's drum for years, I doubt much credence is placed in what they write about U2 anymore.

See, to me, Pop is a favourite album of mine. But I'd concede it's not seen as a U2 classic outside the bubble.


Offline The Exile

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Re: Is 'Moment of Surrender' a U2 classic?
« Reply #40 on: June 30, 2012, 10:36:27 AM »
Yes, it's a classic U2 song -- whether it's recognized as such by the general public is a different matter.

No, it's exactly the same matter.

I think people are confusing "classic" with "great." MOS may be considered good or bad by individual fans, but a classic by definition is publicly acclaimed. For example, someone might not like The Godfather, but they'd have to admit it's a classic. Or, someone might love Honey I Shrunk the Kids and considerate their favorite movie, but they should never call it a classic.

That's why the idea of an "instant classic" always sounded off to me. Time determines whether something is a classic (and I doubt MOS is, but time will tell).

Offline A_Fly_On_The_Wall

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Re: Is 'Moment of Surrender' a U2 classic?
« Reply #41 on: June 30, 2012, 11:43:07 AM »
It most certainly is.

Bono's best lyrics since Achtung, maybe of all time. A proper ballad exploding with emotion and one which I hope continues to be played live on U2's next tour.

Best lyrics - ATM Machine. Isn't that redundant?

Yes it is but aside from that, the song has superb lyrics. And there isn't a single U2 song with perfect lyrics is there?

Offline singnomore

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Re: Is 'Moment of Surrender' a U2 classic?
« Reply #42 on: June 30, 2012, 11:51:10 AM »
At the moment its a great song. Classic status would need to fall into '40' or 'Bad' for example territory

Offline @lmighty DS

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Re: Is 'Moment of Surrender' a U2 classic?
« Reply #43 on: June 30, 2012, 12:00:33 PM »
It most certainly is.

Bono's best lyrics since Achtung, maybe of all time. A proper ballad exploding with emotion and one which I hope continues to be played live on U2's next tour.

Best lyrics - ATM Machine. Isn't that redundant?

Yes it is but aside from that, the song has superb lyrics. And there isn't a single U2 song with perfect lyrics is there?

I'm not saying this isn't an annoying lyric, but in the bands defense, i HAVE heard them referred to as "ATM Machines" many times since the i heard MOS.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2012, 12:02:16 PM by DesertSky »

Offline briscoetheque

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Re: Is 'Moment of Surrender' a U2 classic?
« Reply #44 on: June 30, 2012, 12:00:45 PM »
At the moment its a great song. Classic status would need to fall into '40' or 'Bad' for example territory

Agree, and surely no one would suggest that it's knocking on the door of either of those...