g friday talks about new u2 album

[singnomore]

I've removed a couple of posts as they have no relevance to this discussion...

[U2-obsessed and proud]

Oh my gosh. I just realized something. Everyone who slags on the last three albums and worships Pop is just as bad as all the old people who only like everything up to Rattle and Hum.

Everyone always thinks their favorite band sells out when they change what they do a little, and everyone always acts like trying to retain the public eye is mutually exclusive from making good music.

Oh my gosh! The Red Hot Chili Peppers sold out in the 90s because Anthony Keidis decided he actually wanted to try singing a bit more.
Oh my gosh! Coldplay sold out because they used a few synths and tried a song with Rihanna!
Oh my gosh! The Goo Goo Dolls sold out after "Iris"! Man, they used to be so hardcore!
Oh my gosh! All Green Day cares about is money now. I can't listen to anything after Dookie.
Oh my gosh! Dave Matthews SOLD HIS SOUL and went electric. "The Space Between" is nothing but a HORRIBLE pop song!

Yeah, some artists DO sell out (just take a look at Maroon 5, and to some extent, Train). In fact, there's truth to most of those artists trying to cater to commercial motives, and in some cases their are some songs that clearly falter because of it. But to think that means ALL their music automatically sucks because of it childish.

"Beautiful Day" is a wonderful song. Goodness gracious, does a song have to be dark and brooding to be acceptable? If you listen to the verses, they're actually in quite a contrast to the chorus--it's far from a bubblegum song.

A great deal of skill and craft went into each of the last three U2 albums. U2 has never released anything on par with "Moves Like Jagger" or any crap like that. U2 didn't just throw their sense in the gutter. They have never given up their daring nature. Was "Stuck In A Moment You Can't Get Out Of" really a play-it-safe song? It's was actually pretty bold of them; it was unlike anything they had done before, and it's based off of chord progressions that are more popular in jazz than in pop music (until U2 paved the way for John Mayer to do the same thing with "Waiting on The World To Change"). Are you really being fair in failing to recognize that "All Because of You" is just as kick-ass punk as anything they ever did in the 80's, if not more? Is "Stand Up Comedy" really that "safe"? It's very unlike anything they did before (name another U2 song that really is as close to funk as that song), and it contains humor, which is also very rare territory for Bono lyrically.

So really what seems to be going on is that all the people who harp on and on about U2 needing to experiment again are actually just dissatisfied because the new sounds U2 has played with are not in the same vein as Achtung Baby, Zooropa, and Pop, (which had thematic and musical similarities) which they prefer.

There are bands and artists that have really, REALLY sold out. But all this stuff about U2's last three albums being absolute crap? Please, please just grow up. Let yourself enjoy some music that's actually quite good.

Awesome post, very well said.

I second this.

I third this

[Droo]

Slick keyboards are everywhere you look on those songs when really, there should have been tuneful electric guitars. But I guess U2 albums cannot be not commercial so something's got to give.

You do realize U2 have heavily used keyboards during the beloved 90s era, right? Achtung, Zooropa, and Pop are awash with keyboards and synths. Also, several 80s songs use keyed instruments. New Year's Day, Scarlet, I Fall Down, The Unforgettable Fire, MLK, Streets, WOWY, etc. There's nothing wrong with keyboards. Their use is no less legitimate than guitar. In fact, I'd argue that U2 don't sound as good when they rely solely on guitar. Example: the lurching monstrosity that is most of HTDAAB.

[xy]

I don't think it's U2 changing that people have a problem with, but it's their explicit admission that they are once again trying to be popular and accepted by the most people possible.

That, coupled with a simultaneous decrease in the quality of Bono's songwriting, have occasioned more disillusionment with U2 that there mere fact that they changed their style.

U2 wanting to be popular and accepted is really not new, is it ?

Of course not, but there's a difference between writing challenging new music and embracing it so wholeheartedly that you play almost your whole album live, and rarely break character for three years, thereby almost dragging an unwilling audience along for the ride with you (on the one hand), and deliberately doing everything you can to be likeable and tame (on the other).

No one here thinks U2 didn't care about success in the '90s. It's just that they also cared about other things.

If you're referring to Zoo era (character for three years, playing full album), they had at least two things going for them : a) massive groundbreaking tour. With that tour U2 became a stadium act, a must-see live band. The tour itself was the selling prize, not so much the - admiteddly excellent - album. b) not one, but two massive US hits in MW and One. And they were out of US live dates for what...5 years since JT tour ? Demand was pretty much a given.

Same band that wanted to fight the charts in 83. Same band that shouted off about it each night on JT tour (we worked hard to be no 1 speeches). But they always had the songs to back it up. Same band that wrote BD and had the brilliant idea for the Ipod hookup (though as far as I'm concerned, Vertigo would have been a hit with or without the ad). Except this band doesn't have the luxury of automatic radio airplay or MTV. 50 year old pack of rockers in American music landscape ...  Vertigo and BD were a miracle IMO. Anything similarly big is wishful thinking on their part IMO.

I don't think they ever sold out "art" for the sake of "commerce". I concede that as they get better at the "craft" of writing some of the "magic" might get lost but that is a different debate. I'm not concerned about their integrity when they can still pull of pure inspiration like Moment of surrender.

[MLP Midnight]

Artists like Usher sold out. He used to make some great R&B songs. Now he does boring repetitive synthpop.

U2 may have gradually tried to become more commercial sounding, but they did not sell out in the slightest.

[Tumbling Dice]

I concede that as they get better at the "craft" of writing, some of the "magic" might get lost but that is a different debate.

In what way, shape or form have U2 gotten better at the 'craft' of writing over the last fifteen years?

[eddyjedi]

I concede that as they get better at the "craft" of writing, some of the "magic" might get lost but that is a different debate.

In what way, shape or form have U2 gotten better at the 'craft' of writing over the last fifteen years?

I think their songwriting has improved over the last 15 years, maybe not in single terms but in album terms, definitely. I think they are always in search of perfection as a band in the album format and they believe they have never quite got their with anything thus far and I truly think this next album will be the last attempt at that.  If they didn't think so, they wouldn't be here.

I'd like the last album to be called Man.





 

[pfctsqr]

I concede that as they get better at the "craft" of writing, some of the "magic" might get lost but that is a different debate.

In what way, shape or form have U2 gotten better at the 'craft' of writing over the last fifteen years?

I think their songwriting has improved over the last 15 years, maybe not in single terms but in album terms, definitely. I think they are always in search of perfection as a band in the album format and they believe they have never quite got their with anything thus far and I truly think this next album will be the last attempt at that.  If they didn't think so, they wouldn't be here.

I'd like the last album to be called Man.





 

So recent albums show better "album songwriting" than Achtung?  Wow.

[JTBaby]

I concede that as they get better at the "craft" of writing, some of the "magic" might get lost but that is a different debate.

In what way, shape or form have U2 gotten better at the 'craft' of writing over the last fifteen years?

I think their songwriting has improved over the last 15 years, maybe not in single terms but in album terms, definitely. I think they are always in search of perfection as a band in the album format and they believe they have never quite got their with anything thus far and I truly think this next album will be the last attempt at that.  If they didn't think so, they wouldn't be here.

I'd like the last album to be called Man.





 

So recent albums show better "album songwriting" than Achtung?  Wow.

Recent albums are the epitome of the anti album. Disjointed collection of unrelated disparate songs. Up to and including pop U2 made albums.

[Droo]

How were the songs on The Unforgettable Fire related? Or Achtung, for that matter? The only U2 albums that approached having a central theme or concept were Zooropa and October, if you ask me.

I would say that U2 albums usually have a certain type of sound, and that ATYCLB, HTDAAB, and NLOTH all had a certain sound to them as well.

[TheLarryMullenBand]

I concede that as they get better at the "craft" of writing, some of the "magic" might get lost but that is a different debate.

In what way, shape or form have U2 gotten better at the 'craft' of writing over the last fifteen years?

I think their songwriting has improved over the last 15 years, maybe not in single terms but in album terms, definitely. I think they are always in search of perfection as a band in the album format and they believe they have never quite got their with anything thus far and I truly think this next album will be the last attempt at that.  If they didn't think so, they wouldn't be here.

I'd like the last album to be called Man.





 

So recent albums show better "album songwriting" than Achtung?  Wow.

Recent albums are the epitome of the anti album. Disjointed collection of unrelated disparate songs. Up to and including pop U2 made albums.

"epitome of the anti album" is a bit of a hyperbole. The songs are also far from disjointed, ATYCLB is, but HTDAAB and NLOTH are definitely not. Like Droo said, the last three albums definitely have a distinct sound to them, and U2 hasn't really had too many albums that hold a solid theme so to say. In my opinion, October, Joshua Tree, Zooropa, and Pop have pretty solid themes / concepts. Everything else is just a collection of songs with a similar sound to each.

Who cares if a song doesn't have a so called theme or concept? If the songs are good and there can be a distinct similar sound in each, does it even matter?

[EnduringChill]

I've always thought somewhere in the back of my mind that NLOTH is a concept album. It's clear and cohesive, I think, but the story I hear in it is disjointed... still, I think there's a clear theme there. Achtung Baby also tells a story with the way the songs are linked together. Zooropa and October all have similar themes in each song.

But yeah... why do albums need specific themes?

[_acrobat]

How were the songs on The Unforgettable Fire related? Or Achtung, for that matter? The only U2 albums that approached having a central theme or concept were Zooropa and October, if you ask me.

I would say that U2 albums usually have a certain type of sound, and that ATYCLB, HTDAAB, and NLOTH all had a certain sound to them as well.

Agree 100%

[xy]

I concede that as they get better at the "craft" of writing, some of the "magic" might get lost but that is a different debate.

In what way, shape or form have U2 gotten better at the 'craft' of writing over the last fifteen years?

Via experience, of course.

[xy]

I concede that as they get better at the "craft" of writing, some of the "magic" might get lost but that is a different debate.

In what way, shape or form have U2 gotten better at the 'craft' of writing over the last fifteen years?

I think their songwriting has improved over the last 15 years, maybe not in single terms but in album terms, definitely. I think they are always in search of perfection as a band in the album format and they believe they have never quite got their with anything thus far and I truly think this next album will be the last attempt at that.  If they didn't think so, they wouldn't be here.

I'd like the last album to be called Man.





 

So recent albums show better "album songwriting" than Achtung?  Wow.

Recent albums are the epitome of the anti album. Disjointed collection of unrelated disparate songs. Up to and including pop U2 made albums.

Let's not get carried away...Boy, UF, JT, AB and Zooropa are pure albums. Everything else gets close (some of ATYCLB, October, War) or far off anything resembling an album (Rattle and Hum, Pop, HTDAAB).