Author Topic: 2012/2013 English Premier League  (Read 15899 times)

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Offline imedi

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #135 on: November 13, 2012, 01:23:03 PM »
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Aaaw poor Everton with a team chock full of internationals and one of the top 10 biggest wage bills in the league, how on earth does Moyes continue to keep them scrapping on the verge of the Europa League I'll never know.

There's a world of difference between the 10th biggest wage bill in the premiership and the 4th.  Everton have always gotten more bang for their buck than Liverpool.  All that money spent at Liverpool and no league title for over 20 years.  It breaks my heart for Stevie G. :'(  Shame the move to Chelsea fell through for him - he clearly prefers to be a big fish in pond life.
 
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Do you think Moyes' first ever trophy in English football will come at Everton?

I'll wager that Moyes' first trophy will come before Brendan Rodgers' first trophy, whether at Everton or Man Utd.  Actually, I'd also bet that Moyes is still the Everton coach after Brendan's been sent packing by Liverpool's Yankee owners, with a hefty pay-off to rival Rafa's, Houllier's and King Kenny's.  You see, Everton believe in continuity. ;)

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Castles made of sand - enjoy it while you can.

Castles built on a solid, well built team, with a modest budget. :)


Can you not see and appreciate Liverpool's attempts to be more in line with your way of thinking? Good young team coming through, new stadium on the way, a brilliant young manager who is at a massive club with no desire to be elsewhere. Everton can't possibly lay claim to any of that but hell they're fourth in the league at the moment so who cares, enjoy it!

How does not being able to afford such and such make them financially responsible anyway? If they could afford it and didn't pay I'd agree with you but calling Everton financially responsible is like me saying the homeless dude who lives under the bridge is financially responsible. It's pretty easy to be that when you've got no money, no credit, a crumbling stadium and no investors. Taking nothing away from what they've achieved with Moyes and they're a bloody good watch at the moment, but surely the very things that you admire and laud them for are just a matter of circumstance, it's nothing to do with what Everton stand for, it's just a by-product from being second best in their own city.
lol lovin this

Offline Zoost

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #136 on: November 13, 2012, 02:08:04 PM »
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He's the embarrassing special cousin no one ever invites to Christmas dinner eh?

He also supports the original team from the city he has always lived in. A team that has been in the top division of English football longer than any other team. He has continued to support them through thick and thin, heartbreak and loss. Cringed as his team were cheated out of being allowed to play in the Champions League (called the European Cup at the time) thanks to the other team in the city causing deaths by rioting (a ban to which this day Everton are still suffering the financial effects of).

Offline Bads316

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #137 on: November 13, 2012, 02:48:27 PM »
It wasn't thanks to the other team in the city, it was thanks to moronic idiots - every club's got them. As if Liverpool FC went rioting!?! 


Offline JTBaby

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #138 on: November 13, 2012, 02:49:26 PM »
Yes I'm sure Liverpool fans killed their own just to prevent Everton playing in the European cup. Funny how other English teams weren't similarly affected and went on to win the thing.


Offline Zoost

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #139 on: November 13, 2012, 03:14:33 PM »
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It wasn't thanks to the other team in the city, it was thanks to moronic idiots - every club's got them. As if Liverpool FC went rioting!?! 



Sorry, wasn't sure what intelligence level I was dealing with. Did you really think I meant the team? Of course it was the Liverpool fans, not the team, and it was their fault. Don't give me crap about it being the fault of the police, or bad stadium planning etc etc. When it comes down to it, fans of Liverpool football club were responsible for causing a riot where tragic deaths occurred.

JTBaby - Everton fans were twice denied entry to the biggest money generating tournament of the time, probably more times as they would have one it at least once, but that's hearsay. They came off worse than anyone. By the time other clubs managed to win the Champions League' it was because insane amounts of money had been earned by them due to massive changes in the domestic game, and could afford to 'buy' better players.


Offline JTBaby

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #140 on: November 13, 2012, 04:33:08 PM »
Liverpool missed out on 3 European cups. Everton 2. 3>2.

It's not Liverpool's fault Everton chose the path of fiscal responsibility and mediocrity over on field success.


Offline DGordon1

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #141 on: November 13, 2012, 05:12:04 PM »
I have an allegiance to neither of these teams, but this season I'm impressed by Everton and disappointed by Liverpool (a similar story in the last few years. David Moyes is one of the best managers in the league and makes shrewd signings. Liverpool do things like spend £35 million on Andrew Carroll (??) and then put him on loan when they have 1 other striker of note. Also, selling Xabi Alonso was utter lunacy. Everton seem a far more sensible club as of late, and as long as Liverpool p*** their money away and make stupid decisions, they'll continue to underachieve. They're the more fashionable club in the city, but have had a far more frustrating time of it in the last few years and are going downhill if anything.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 05:19:33 PM by DGordon1 »

Offline Zoost

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #142 on: November 13, 2012, 05:20:14 PM »
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Liverpool missed out on 3 European cups. Everton 2. 3>2.

It's not Liverpool's fault Everton chose the path of fiscal responsibility and mediocrity over on field success.

I never said it was.

As for your first point - so what! their fans were the ones who caused the tragedy. Their club deserved to miss out. My point was that Everton had absolutely no part in that tragedy, as with every other club that suffered unfairly with the ban. The ban should have been solely for Liverpool fans.

Offline JTBaby

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #143 on: November 13, 2012, 05:40:58 PM »
Your point was also that Everton suffered more. They didn't. Liverpool did.

I don't have a dog in this fight but I'd bet that Liverpool wins something before Everton does.


Offline Zoost

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #144 on: November 13, 2012, 05:45:11 PM »
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Your point was also that Everton suffered more. They didn't. Liverpool did.

I don't have a dog in this fight but I'd bet that Liverpool wins something before Everton does.



Liverpool have been winning things ever since the tragedy at Heysel, The club did not suffer on the field or financially. They did of course suffer incredibly emotionally for the carnage caused by the disgusting behavior of the minority of their fans.

Everton football club suffered more on the field as a team and financially than Liverpool did. Therefore, the fans suffered to, we have every right to be bitter about it, but we have moved on.

Offline JTBaby

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #145 on: November 13, 2012, 06:00:44 PM »
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Your point was also that Everton suffered more. They didn't. Liverpool did.

I don't have a dog in this fight but I'd bet that Liverpool wins something before Everton does.



Liverpool have been winning things ever since the tragedy at Heysel, The club did not suffer on the field or financially. They did of course suffer incredibly emotionally for the carnage caused by the disgusting behavior of the minority of their fans.

Everton football club suffered more on the field as a team and financially than Liverpool did. Therefore, the fans suffered to, we have every right to be bitter about it, but we have moved on.

I still don't see how missing out on FEWER European cup participation means they suffered MORE.

And if this is "moved on" I'd hate to see "bitter" !

:D


Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #146 on: November 14, 2012, 03:32:17 AM »
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Your point was also that Everton suffered more. They didn't. Liverpool did.

I don't have a dog in this fight but I'd bet that Liverpool wins something before Everton does.



Liverpool have been winning things ever since the tragedy at Heysel, The club did not suffer on the field or financially. They did of course suffer incredibly emotionally for the carnage caused by the disgusting behavior of the minority of their fans.

Everton football club suffered more on the field as a team and financially than Liverpool did. Therefore, the fans suffered to, we have every right to be bitter about it, but we have moved on.

Everton suffered the most from not qualifying for AT LEAST two European Cups because of the actions of some supporters of another club (in British football the fans are considered to be part of the club) where as Liverpool lost qualification because of their own club’s fans, so clearly Everton are the most wronged club in this.  We had a very good chance of winning the European Cup in 1986 with a great side and Lineker’s and Sharpe’s goals.  The ban from European competition in the ‘80s affected Everton financially more than Liverpool.  But as you say, we have moved on from that, and the premier league is now a completely different beast to the old English First Division, but we have managed to punch above our weight on the pitch with a much more modest budget than many of the wealthier clubs.  David Moyes is a first class manager who has shown loyalty and service to his club – despite offers from other clubs – and that loyalty has been reciprocated by the club.  As you know he was the 2003, 2005 and 2009 League Managers Association Manager of the Year and is the third-longest serving manager in the entire English football league system.

And don’t mind Mr Grumpy, he’s probably just another American who pretends to be interested in English soccer.

Offline Bads316

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #147 on: November 14, 2012, 03:44:22 AM »
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It wasn't thanks to the other team in the city, it was thanks to moronic idiots - every club's got them. As if Liverpool FC went rioting!?! 



Sorry, wasn't sure what intelligence level I was dealing with. Did you really think I meant the team? Of course it was the Liverpool fans, not the team, and it was their fault. Don't give me crap about it being the fault of the police, or bad stadium planning etc etc. When it comes down to it, fans of Liverpool football club were responsible for causing a riot where tragic deaths occurred.

JTBaby - Everton fans were twice denied entry to the biggest money generating tournament of the time, probably more times as they would have one it at least once, but that's hearsay. They came off worse than anyone. By the time other clubs managed to win the Champions League' it was because insane amounts of money had been earned by them due to massive changes in the domestic game, and could afford to 'buy' better players.



Sorry, I know you obviously didn't literally mean the team (Souness in a riot? Jesus!) but you certainly didn't mind implying that LFC were responsible in someway, which is ridiculous. English football was rife with violence and morons at that time. Being unable to separate events such as this from the sporting rivalry with the clubs is what leads to these things in the first place. So again it wasn't 'the other team in the city' it was morons, using football as a scapegoat for their own jealousies and hatred. If it wasn't football they'd find something else to latch onto, be it political, religious or just some crazy cult. Football is absolutely secondary in this.

As for the proposal for the ban to be solely for Liverpool instead of a widespread ban across the entire country - Do you think that would of helped the problem of hooliganism in English football? No, it would of made it ten times worse. I'm sorry Everton missed out on the Euro's I really am, they had a great chance at winning it with an uber good team, but the call to ban all English clubs was the right decision.

 


« Last Edit: November 14, 2012, 03:45:54 AM by Bads316 »

Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #148 on: November 14, 2012, 04:04:34 AM »
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It wasn't thanks to the other team in the city, it was thanks to moronic idiots - every club's got them. As if Liverpool FC went rioting!?! 



Sorry, wasn't sure what intelligence level I was dealing with. Did you really think I meant the team? Of course it was the Liverpool fans, not the team, and it was their fault. Don't give me crap about it being the fault of the police, or bad stadium planning etc etc. When it comes down to it, fans of Liverpool football club were responsible for causing a riot where tragic deaths occurred.

JTBaby - Everton fans were twice denied entry to the biggest money generating tournament of the time, probably more times as they would have one it at least once, but that's hearsay. They came off worse than anyone. By the time other clubs managed to win the Champions League' it was because insane amounts of money had been earned by them due to massive changes in the domestic game, and could afford to 'buy' better players.



Sorry, I know you obviously didn't literally mean the team (Souness in a riot? Jesus!) but you certainly didn't mind implying that LFC were responsible in someway, which is ridiculous. English football was rife with violence and morons at that time. Being unable to separate events such as this from the sporting rivalry with the clubs is what leads to these things in the first place. So again it wasn't 'the other team in the city' it was morons, using football as a scapegoat for their own jealousies and hatred. If it wasn't football they'd find something else to latch onto, be it political, religious or just some crazy cult. Football is absolutely secondary in this.

Actually, sporting rivalry is much more friendly on Merseyside than it is in other parts of the country, such as in Birmingham.  There isn't any hatred between rival fans on Mersyside, or jealousy, because all sets of fans are proud of what their clubs' represent.  Look at the way rival fans mingle in the stands during Merseyside derbys and the way they come together during tragedies, whether it was Hillsborough or the murder of Rhys Jones.

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As for the proposal for the ban to be solely for Liverpool instead of a widespread ban across the entire country - Do you think that would of helped the problem of hooliganism in English football? No, it would of made it ten times worse. I'm sorry Everton missed out on the Euro's I really am, they had a great chance at winning it with an uber good team, but the call to ban all English clubs was the right decision.

Certainly, football hooliganism was a major problem in Britain during the 70s and 80s, but some clubs' fans were more culpable than others, and the Heysel disaster was the straw that broke the camel's back.  Personally, I think it was unfair to ban all clubs from European competition, since that ban wouldn't prevent hooliganism from continuing in Britain.  As we have seen over the last two decades or so, other countries' clubs that weren't banned have a more deplorable record on hooliganism and racism but they haven't been banned from the same competitions that English teams were banned from.


Offline Bads316

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #149 on: November 14, 2012, 04:16:50 AM »
Yeah, it's a peaceful rivalry for the most part no doubt. Something I've always admired about both clubs. Certainly more peaceful than around here, but at the end of the day it's all about respect for each other, something that Liverpool and Everton have always had and something that's drastically lacking from Blues/Villa, Rangers/Celtic, West Ham/Millwall etc

No doubt the authorities in UEFA and FIFA have a stick up their ass concerning English football - they still do. But I'll always maintain that the widespread ban of English clubs from European competition was a factor in our game being cleaned up.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2012, 04:26:23 AM by Bads316 »