Author Topic: 2012/2013 English Premier League  (Read 15806 times)

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Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #150 on: November 14, 2012, 04:31:27 AM »
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Yeah, it's a peaceful rivalry for the most part no doubt. Something I've always admired about both clubs. Certainly more so than around here, but at the end of the day it's all about respect for each other, something that Liverpool and Everton have always had and something that's drastically lacking from Blues/Villa, Rangers/Celtic, West Ham/Millwall etc

No doubt the authorities in UEFA and FIFA have a stick up their ass concerning English football - they still do. But I'll always maintain that the widespread ban of English clubs from European competition was a factor in our game being cleaned up.


I think the move from terraces to all seater stadiums was the biggest factor in cleaning up our game, coupled with clubs taking greater responsibility for their own fans' behaviour and banning fans for hooliganism or racism, including lifetime bans in some instances.

I agree about Uefa and Fifa; they don't seem to like English football, possibly because of envy at the qaulity of our league, or because of the anti-corruption stance of the FA when compared to other countries' FA's.  I think it suited their book to have English clubs banned from European competitions because we dominated them back then.  For me, Michel Platini and Sepp Blatter personify everything that I don't like about the Uefa/Fifa crowd.

 

Offline JTBaby

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #151 on: November 14, 2012, 09:25:35 AM »
Everton fans had their share of hooligans. Countyroad cutters?

Offline Bads316

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #152 on: November 14, 2012, 09:53:58 AM »
Great article.

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Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #153 on: November 14, 2012, 10:15:36 AM »
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Great article.

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I'll bet the Man Utd CEO favours clubs having to break even and see owners limited to the losses they can incur.  That effectively puts their Man City and Chelsea rivals at a disadvantage.  Having said that, it is the approach I'd like to see clubs taking.  Newcastle are a recent great example of how to run a football club properly, and in the past Mike Ashley mentioned Everton as the example of the way he'd like to run Newcastle.  It's great to see both Everton and Newcastle doing well in the premiership this season.


Offline Bads316

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #154 on: November 14, 2012, 10:34:51 AM »
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Great article.

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I'll bet the Man Utd CEO favours clubs having to break even and see owners limited to the losses they can incur.  That effectively puts their Man City and Chelsea rivals at a disadvantage.  Having said that, it is the approach I'd like to see clubs taking.  Newcastle are a recent great example of how to run a football club properly, and in the past Mike Ashley mentioned Everton as the example of the way he'd like to run Newcastle.  It's great to see both Everton and Newcastle doing well in the premiership this season.



Yes I agree it's a very good thing, especially with all 20 clubs being in favour of something being done. It does enforce the status quo a little bit though doesn't it?

For example if Villa after 5 years of not spending and struggling but staying up decide to have a real push for Europe again, they just simply wont be able to do that? Would every club in the land just have to accept the position they were in when the rules were made and that's that? I'm not sure if that's right but that's how I read it.

Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #155 on: November 14, 2012, 12:01:04 PM »
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Great article.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

I'll bet the Man Utd CEO favours clubs having to break even and see owners limited to the losses they can incur.  That effectively puts their Man City and Chelsea rivals at a disadvantage.  Having said that, it is the approach I'd like to see clubs taking.  Newcastle are a recent great example of how to run a football club properly, and in the past Mike Ashley mentioned Everton as the example of the way he'd like to run Newcastle.  It's great to see both Everton and Newcastle doing well in the premiership this season.



Yes I agree it's a very good thing, especially with all 20 clubs being in favour of something being done. It does enforce the status quo a little bit though doesn't it?

For example if Villa after 5 years of not spending and struggling but staying up decide to have a real push for Europe again, they just simply wont be able to do that? Would every club in the land just have to accept the position they were in when the rules were made and that's that? I'm not sure if that's right but that's how I read it.

It would put Man Utd at an advantage over the other big boys, except Arsenal.  The other clubs would have to up their game in developing home grown talent in their academies, and through better scouting, if they wanted to build good teams to challenge the big boys.  Yes, it would maintain the status quo, but then isn't that what we've already had for years?  I don't think it's a good idea to run up big debts in a "real push for Europe" (like what Leeds did), although a prudent club could invest it's capital reserves. 


Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #156 on: November 15, 2012, 12:30:31 PM »
Why is it that when the English First Division was made up of predominantly English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish players, we dominated European football, but now we have a cosmopolitan Premier League, which has supposedly inproved the quality of football, we have more mixed results?



Offline Bads316

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #157 on: November 15, 2012, 01:12:47 PM »
I'll stick my neck out and presume you're talking Club level :)

I think the ban had a lot to do with it, we spent ten years playing catch up, but surely the EPL  has more or less dominated the Champions League for the past decade, more so than any other league anyway. We have four teams each year with a realistic chance of winning it, even outside of our top 4 Spurs, Liverpool and Everton would be solid competitors, every other league has one or two teams at best.

What I really hate is how the UEFA Cup has become a joke, that competition and the Cup Winners Cup used to be fantastic and should be worth a hell of a lot more than a run out for the reserves. Problem being that you get more money for qualifying for Champions League than you do for WINNING the Europa League!


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Great article.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

I'll bet the Man Utd CEO favours clubs having to break even and see owners limited to the losses they can incur.  That effectively puts their Man City and Chelsea rivals at a disadvantage.  Having said that, it is the approach I'd like to see clubs taking.  Newcastle are a recent great example of how to run a football club properly, and in the past Mike Ashley mentioned Everton as the example of the way he'd like to run Newcastle.  It's great to see both Everton and Newcastle doing well in the premiership this season.



Yes I agree it's a very good thing, especially with all 20 clubs being in favour of something being done. It does enforce the status quo a little bit though doesn't it?

For example if Villa after 5 years of not spending and struggling but staying up decide to have a real push for Europe again, they just simply wont be able to do that? Would every club in the land just have to accept the position they were in when the rules were made and that's that? I'm not sure if that's right but that's how I read it.

It would put Man Utd at an advantage over the other big boys, except Arsenal.  The other clubs would have to up their game in developing home grown talent in their academies, and through better scouting, if they wanted to build good teams to challenge the big boys.  Yes, it would maintain the status quo, but then isn't that what we've already had for years?  I don't think it's a good idea to run up big debts in a "real push for Europe" (like what Leeds did), although a prudent club could invest it's capital reserves. 



Well that sounds fine, lets hope it works!
« Last Edit: November 15, 2012, 01:23:45 PM by Bads316 »

Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #158 on: November 15, 2012, 01:33:43 PM »
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I'll stick my neck out and presume you're talking Club level :)

I think the ban had a lot to do with it, we spent ten years playing catch up, but surely the EPL  has more or less dominated the Champions League for the past decade, more so than any other league anyway. We have four teams each year with a realistic chance of winning it, even outside of our top 4 Spurs, Liverpool and Everton would be solid competitors, every other league has one or two teams at best.

But we dominated in Europe before the ban, so do we really need all these foreign mercenaries in the premiership depriving home grown talent of opportunities? 

Quote
What I really hate is how the UEFA Cup has become a joke, that competition and the Cup Winners Cup used to be fantastic and should be worth a hell of a lot more than a run out for the reserves. Problem being that you get more money for qualifying for Champions League than you do for WINNING the Europa League!

The creation of a European super league (Champions League) killed off the Uefa Cup and the Cup Winners' Cup.  Back in the old days, when the old European Cup was a knockout tournament, the top teams that didn't make it into the EC used to go into the Uefa Cup and Cup Winners' Cup - but which now go into the Champions League - and so these tournaments had top teams in them and were worth winning because they had status.  The Europa League just doesn't have that status and is just an excuse for European clubs to sell more match tickets.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2012, 02:00:18 PM by Tumbling Dice »

Offline Bads316

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #159 on: November 15, 2012, 01:45:37 PM »
Yes and no, obviously there's a downside concerning the amount of home grown talent, but the upside is I got to see Cantona, Bergkamp, Henry, Zola, Aguero etc apply their trade in their prime in this country. The influx of foreign players has gone too far though and I see that being rectified over the next ten years or so. Another reason being is that English players are just so much more expensive, for whatever reason.


The Europa League Winners should get Champions League qualification, at least make it worth something, and it would also give every club in every country a shot at Champions League.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2012, 01:55:37 PM by Bads316 »

Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #160 on: November 15, 2012, 02:13:33 PM »
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Yes and no, obviously there's a downside concerning the amount of home grown talent, but the upside is I got to see Cantona, Bergkamp, Henry, Zola, Aguero etc apply their trade in their prime in this country. The influx of foreign players has gone too far though and I see that being rectified over the next ten years or so. Another reason being is that English players are just so much more expensive, for whatever reason.

English players wouldn't be more expensive if they weren't at a premium because of relatively few of them making the first teams.  I think the influx of foreign mercenaries has been a big factor in driving up wages in the premiership generally, because of the need to attract them to England.  Yes, they do bring their special gifts and add an extra dimension to football in England, but my main point is that it doesn't make English teams any more successful in competing against the continental teams such as Barcelona, than they were when they had few foreign players back in the '70s and '80s.


Offline Bads316

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #161 on: November 15, 2012, 02:16:04 PM »
But we were a long, long way off in the 90's - until the rule of only three foreigners per team had been lifted. Then we became a major force again.   

Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #162 on: November 15, 2012, 02:19:38 PM »
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But we were a long, long way off in the 90's - until the ban on three foreigners per team had been lifted.   

Probably because English players had forgotten how to play against foreigners.  That ban denied a certain generation of English footballers from the experience of European football, unless they went abroad to play for continental clubs.




Offline Bads316

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #163 on: November 15, 2012, 02:24:12 PM »
Yeah, it all leads back to that, no doubt.

Offline JTBaby

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #164 on: November 15, 2012, 03:58:33 PM »
English players STILL don't know how to play against foreigners as their Euro 2012/2008/2004/2000 etc success shows. Ditto almost every World Cup since scraping by with homer calls in 1966.