Author Topic: 2012/2013 English Premier League  (Read 15526 times)

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Offline Bads316

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #180 on: November 16, 2012, 02:40:52 PM »
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My optimism might very well be misplaced but what's the alternative?

Realism.

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The same media that tells us all we're world beaters leading up to tournaments? The Sun's headline after our World Cup Group was drawn was 'Easy' front bloody page! As if that was easy. No game for us is easy, we're a huge scalp, probably along with Brazil the biggest.

The media expect a lot - and so does the nation - because we have the calibre of players to go out and do the business, if only they could be bothered.

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Venables had one tournament and it was incredible. To name him alongside those three is a tad unfair. I thought we had a great thing going with Hoddle.

We had the home advantage going for us in Euro '96, and perhaps fortune was smiling on us during that tournament more than others.  Luck does play a part in these things.  And I didn't rate Hoddle at all as a manager or motivator.  He antagonised the players.  He was all talk, gimmicks, and no results.

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Sven, McClown and Capello were never going to work, three huge mistakes that squandered our greatest group of talent since '66. Sven's easily one of the most inept managers I've ever seen (Just compare his set-up to Hodgson's for when we don't have the ball, hilarious!) Capello is all wrong for England but a great appointment for Russia, and Shteve, whom I personally wouldn't even want to play for.

Sure, Capello was wrong for England - in retrospect.  But Eriksson and Capello had a wide range of experience and success in world football and so the FA felt that could be what previous underperforming England teams were lacking in a coach.  Eriksson turned England around after Kevin Keegan, and went on to - statistically - be the best England coach since Sir Alf Ramsay.  One could also say we were 'unlucky' in some of his tournaments.  I agree that McClaren was a disaster and I knew he would be when he was appointed.  I just feel Hodgson was the most cost-effective choice of manager.

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If a football team at club level is seemingly unmotivated then what is the number one reason given for that? Every single time it's the manager. How can looking at the manager as a reason for an unmotivated player not make any sense? Surely it's the first port of call.

But you said:  "Any lack of motivation from the players is a direct result of foreign managers being the highest paid personnel in world football."

How much money the manager is paid shouldn't affect the players' motivation.

Of course it's the manager's job to motivate, but ultimately it's the players who have to go out and play and deliver, which they don't do.

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Blaming money isn't the answer, why did we do so much worse in the 70's & 80's - we've actually improved a great deal since then. We actually qualify these days.

Recent crops of England players are better than what they were in the 1970s.

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What gives us the right to win anyway, are you saying that if we simply tried harder we'd win? Of course we wouldn't, it's an insult to every other team and nation.

The point is that we don't win - ever.  Other national teams with the same calibre, even a lower calibre, of players have won tournaments over the last thirty years.   


Just to clarify - "Any lack of motivation from the players is a direct result of foreign managers being the highest paid personnel in world football." what I meant by that was those two managers didn't give a rats ass. If anyone was on a jolly up it was them, yet they're the only two people you've given a modicum of credit to.

Realism? You expect us to win everything if we only tried harder. What if we 'tried harder' and lost? What would you say then?

Italy beat us because we have no answer to Pirlo, we have no player capable of playing the way he does (well we did but Sven threw him away, thanks Sven) That's it, that's the difference, it's not a lack of effort, it's not a lack of passion, it's one player who was head and shoulders above every other single person on that pitch and in that tournament, who happened to be playing for the opposition. One player ran that game and even then we took them to penalties, if we weren't trying, if it was indeed a 'jolly up' no way we would of got that far against Italy! It's impossible. Speaking of which, how can we lose on pens so often if we're not trying? If we were getting mauled and going out in the groups then your point would be pretty obvious and easy to agree with. We were only good enough when we had Sven, but we had Sven which is a huge handicap for any team, we should of been allowed 18 players on the pitch to make up for it.

In the summer Euros just gone I think that we got by on nothing but passion and effort. We have a severe lack of quality, and a severe lack of choice. Bloody hell we were bringing on Henderson to sure up the midfield :(  Look at what we used to have, Ian Wright struggled to get in the England team! Le Tissier had I'm guessing one or two caps! Le Tiss!!! What we wouldn't give for those players now, they'd walk in.

Truth is, we aren't good enough, there's always been 4 - 5 teams ahead of us, in terms of style, skill and technique and unfortunately we've never never been blessed with THAT player - Zidane, Messi, Van Basten, Maradona etc No English player comes close to those names, since '66 anyway (and only 3 of them were any good) All we have to go on is effort, all we can do is try, that's the problem.

 

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Anyone who thinks the top English players are as technically sound as some of their lesser paid international peers just needs to watch the Euro 2012 game against Italy.

You can make up as many "jolly up" theories as you want, fact is they give it their all and it's not good enough.

If you'd actually watched all of England's matches in tournaments over the last thirty years, you'd know that they definitely don't 'give it their all.'



No what I see are players who aren't as good as the media or fans think they are.

There are very few if any English players a neutral fan would name as being the best or even top 3 in the world at their position.



I agree. In their prime, Gerrard, Scholes (easily the best English footballer of the past 30 years minimum, again I'd just like to say thanks Sven) Cole, Terry, Ferdinand, Lampard. But now? No chance, not one. Gerrard, Rooney & Cole might scrape my top 5 for their respective positions and that's with me being fairly ignorant of South American football.   

Good young crop coming through at the moment though, lets hope we don't run them into the ground by the time they're 24. 







 

 
« Last Edit: November 16, 2012, 02:52:54 PM by Bads316 »

Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #181 on: November 16, 2012, 03:01:16 PM »
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Just to clarify - "Any lack of motivation from the players is a direct result of foreign managers being the highest paid personnel in world football." what I meant by that was those two managers didn't give a rats ass. If anyone was on a jolly up it was them, yet they're the only two people you've given a modicum of  credit to.

I haven't given any credit to Capello.  He was temperamentally wrong for the England players, but when he was appointed one might've expected better things, given his experience.  I think Eriksson was a good manager, was well liked and respected by the players, got good results, and I just feel we were unlucky during his tournaments, all of which we could have gone on to win.  And by giving a rat's ass, do you mean shouting a lot and waving your arms around and using the phrase 'up for it' a lot in interviews?

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Realism? You expect us to win everything if we only tried harder. What if we 'tried harder' and lost? What would you say then?

If they left everything on the field in matches, particularly during tournaments, then I'd be satisfied that our lads had done us proud.  Seriously, do you think that's what England players do?  If you do then I think you've been watching different matches to the ones I have.

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Italy beat us because we have no answer to Pirlo, we have no player capable of playing the way he does (well we did but Sven threw him away, thanks Sven) That's it, that's the difference, it's not a lack of effort, it's not a lack of passion, it's one player who was head and shoulders above every other single person on that pitch and in that tournament, who happened to be playing for the opposition. One player ran that game and even then we took them to penalties, if we weren't trying, if it was indeed a 'jolly up' no way we would of got that far against Italy! It's impossible. Speaking of which, how can we lose on pens so often if we're not trying? If we were getting mauled and going out in the groups then your point would be pretty obvious and easy to agree with. Fact is we were only good enough when we had Sven, but we had Sven which is a huge handicap for any team, we should of been allowed 18 players on the pitch to make up for it.

Truth is, we aren't good enough, there's always been 4 - 5 teams ahead of us, in terms of style, skill and technique and unfortunately we've never never been blessed with THAT player - Zidane, Messi, Van Basten, Maradona etc No English player comes close to those names, not one. All we have to go on is effort, all we can do is try, that's the problem. 

One player doesn't make a team and one player doesn't win tournaments.  Not Maradona, not Pirlo, not Zidane.  Greece showed what a team is capable of at international level with lower calibre players than England.  Now that is what I call pride and passion for playing for one's country.

Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #182 on: November 16, 2012, 05:33:21 PM »
Aston Villa striker, Christian Benteke, has admitted he thought Aston Villa were a London club when he joined them in the summer. :D

"When I joined Villa I didn’t know where they played, I thought they were a London club!"

He went on to say:
 
"Arsenal are the club I love. I like their philosophy of selecting young players and, besides, they had Thierry Henry."

I'm sure the Villa fans are heartwarmed to know the £50,000 a week wages they're probably paying him are going to a footballer who is committed and passionate about their club. ;D

Offline imedi

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #183 on: November 19, 2012, 10:06:11 AM »
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Aston Villa striker, Christian Benteke, has admitted he thought Aston Villa were a London club when he joined them in the summer. :D

"When I joined Villa I didn’t know where they played, I thought they were a London club!"

He went on to say:
 
"Arsenal are the club I love. I like their philosophy of selecting young players and, besides, they had Thierry Henry."

I'm sure the Villa fans are heartwarmed to know the £50,000 a week wages they're probably paying him are going to a footballer who is committed and passionate about their club. ;D
sadly that is how the game has gone the rest are just feeder clubs for the top 4 hence the reason villa have suffered

Offline Bads316

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #184 on: November 20, 2012, 12:44:39 PM »
Anyone watching Juve v Chelsea? Should be a humdinger. :)

Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #185 on: November 20, 2012, 12:45:23 PM »
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Anyone watching Juve v Chelsea? Should be a humdinger. :)

Yeah, baby.


Offline Bads316

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #186 on: November 20, 2012, 01:25:19 PM »
Unlucky Chelsea! Good game though.

Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #187 on: November 20, 2012, 01:31:05 PM »
I'm gonna get me a Juve jersey.


Offline Bads316

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #188 on: November 20, 2012, 01:35:33 PM »
Yes! Wonder if they come with a Pirlo beard.

Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #189 on: November 20, 2012, 01:39:07 PM »
It can go with my Everton, Barca and Ajax jerseys


Offline Bads316

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #190 on: November 20, 2012, 01:40:18 PM »
Nice

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #191 on: November 20, 2012, 01:50:09 PM »
Do you reckon Arsenal should make Becks an offer?


Offline Bads316

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #192 on: November 20, 2012, 01:55:15 PM »
Yes, with Giroud being pretty good in the air, his corners alone would be worth it. Especially as Arsenal spend a majority of their home games camped in their opponent's half his deliveries could be the difference for a top 4 finish. Be great to see him back here anyway.



If that wasn't a pen for Juve then why wasn't he booked for diving?

Got to bring Torres on now surely
« Last Edit: November 20, 2012, 02:03:49 PM by Bads316 »

Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #193 on: November 20, 2012, 02:05:20 PM »
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Yes, with Giroud being pretty good in the air, his corners alone would be worth it. Especially as Arsenal spend a majority of their home games camped in their opponent's half his deliveries could be the difference for a top 4 finish. Be great to see him back here anyway.

The media reckon he's Paris bound, but I think he'd relish the opportunity to play in the premiership again, and he's said that the only premier side he'd play for, other than Man Utd, is the Arsenal.  He be a good bet for half a season, with an option for another season.  However, I suspect Posh fancies herself as a Parisienne.  Le trez chic. 

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If that wasn't a pen for Juve then why wasn't he booked for diving?

Refs work in mysterious ways. ;)

Offline Bads316

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Re: 2012/2013 English Premier League
« Reply #194 on: November 20, 2012, 02:32:43 PM »
Nice to see Juve be a real force again. Well deserved I think.