Author Topic: Should U2 not try to outdo the 360 tour?  (Read 16745 times)

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Offline bethere

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Re: Should U2 not try to outdo the 360 tour?
« Reply #450 on: January 08, 2013, 05:30:35 PM »
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It was a nostalgia audience. Hence the change in the set list.

        Was the WAR tour a nostalgia audience? I mean, why did U2 open the tour for the WAR album with four songs from the first album? As you would say, it was a nostalgia audience who did not buy the War album and the band thought the War material was average. LOL
What does opening up the war tour with non-war songs have to do with it?  They still played 7 songs out of 10 from the war album on the first show.

 SIX, they only ever played SIX with the exception of one show. You and mutliple other people have emphasized the fact that U2 stopped opening shows with material from NLOTH as a sign that the band felt unconfortable playing the material. The War Tour and UF tour easily sets you straight on that as well as a lot of this other setlist non-sense.

             This clearly shows that the number of songs the band picks to play from the new album or whether they start the shows with any of those songs, HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER THE BAND FEELS THE ALBUM IS A HIT, THEY THINK ITS GOOD, THEY THINK THE FANS LIKE IT, OR WHETHER THE FANS LIKE THE ALBUM AND PURCHASED IT, ETC. ETC.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 05:33:40 PM by bethere »

Offline JTBaby

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Re: Should U2 not try to outdo the 360 tour?
« Reply #451 on: January 08, 2013, 05:34:19 PM »
NLOTH songs were dropped due to the bands' disappointment in the reaction and general crowd apathy to them. U2 remembered they've better reaction AB songs got almost immediately and recognizing just how much of a nostalgia audience they had accumulated they played to the masses. And the crowd energy was much better as a result and the shows were infinitely better as a result.

Nostalgia sells. As proven by 360. Post the numbers again and a clip of I will follow. Another nostalgia trip btw.

Offline JTBaby

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Re: Should U2 not try to outdo the 360 tour?
« Reply #452 on: January 08, 2013, 05:40:39 PM »
War tour. Same number of new songs beginning and end of tour.

Ditto UF.

Just sayin'

Offline bethere

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Re: Should U2 not try to outdo the 360 tour?
« Reply #453 on: January 08, 2013, 05:40:51 PM »
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NLOTH songs were dropped due to the bands' disappointment in the reaction and general crowd apathy to them. U2 remembered they've better reaction AB songs got almost immediately and recognizing just how much of a nostalgia audience they had accumulated they played to the masses. And the crowd energy was much better as a result and the shows were infinitely better as a result.

Nostalgia sells. As proven by 360. Post the numbers again and a clip of I will follow. Another nostalgia trip btw.

             Crowd reaction to album cuts from NLOTH during 360 was no different than crowd reaction to album cuts from Achtung Baby during ZOO TV.

              The fact is, everyone purchased tickets to a tour that was promoting NLOTH. The bands DVD in 2009 had seven songs from the album. Almost all the tickets for the entire tour were purchased by the end of 2009 based on those two facts!

              The tour was no more a Nostalgia tour than POPMART. Both POPMART and 360 featured the same number of songs from the 1980s except POPMART had more HITS from the 80s. 60% of the setlist on 360 came from songs released AFTER the year 2000! That alone tells what type of tour it was and that it was ANYTHING but a nostalgia tour.

              If there were so called crowd issues as you say, the band would not have waited until the final leg in 2011 to add a bunch of Achtung Baby songs.

Offline bethere

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Re: Should U2 not try to outdo the 360 tour?
« Reply #454 on: January 08, 2013, 05:42:25 PM »
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War tour. Same number of new songs beginning and end of tour.

Ditto UF.

Just sayin'

             U2 played more songs from NLOTH than either WAR or UF, JUST SAYIN!

Offline JTBaby

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Re: Should U2 not try to outdo the 360 tour?
« Reply #455 on: January 08, 2013, 05:50:46 PM »
Not by the end of the tour they weren't.

They had dropped them in favor of nostalgia.

Unlike popmart or tuf or war or AB which had almost the same amount of new material the band believed in start to finish of the tour.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 05:52:29 PM by JTBaby »

Offline So Cruel

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Re: Should U2 not try to outdo the 360 tour?
« Reply #456 on: January 08, 2013, 08:02:13 PM »
JTBaby, Boom Boom, TD, ....like Exile said before, just ignore bethere. Every post is an arguement with him posting the same stats and the 6 paragraph bolded upper case shouting replys for 20 pages. He's doing it in this thread, he did it in a few other threads.

And by the way bethere... NO LINE'S SALES DID NOT LIVE UP TO U2'S EXPECTATIONS AND THE ALBUM HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SUCCESS OF THE 360 TOUR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

Offline bethere

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Re: Should U2 not try to outdo the 360 tour?
« Reply #457 on: January 08, 2013, 09:54:46 PM »
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Not by the end of the tour they weren't.

They had dropped them in favor of nostalgia.

Unlike popmart or tuf or war or AB which had almost the same amount of new material the band believed in start to finish of the tour.

                The fact remains, U2 played more songs from NLOTH than they did from War or UF on the tours promoting each album. Based on your claims, that should make the War Tour and UF tour Nostalgia tours! LOL

Offline bethere

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Re: Should U2 not try to outdo the 360 tour?
« Reply #458 on: January 08, 2013, 10:05:39 PM »
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And by the way bethere... NO LINE'S SALES DID NOT LIVE UP TO U2'S EXPECTATIONS AND THE ALBUM HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SUCCESS OF THE 360 TOUR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

              Do you have any facts to back up such a wild claim? Anything?

    Here are some facts that show the NLOTH was a huge success that insured that the 360 tour would be a success:

THE TOP 10 SELLING ALBUMS OF 2009 WORLDWIDE

01. Susan Boyle - I Dreamed A Dream - 6.0 million copies
02. Lady GaGa - The Fame (Monster) 5.9 million copies
03. Black Eyed Peas - The E.N.D. - 4.6 million copies
04. Taylor Swift - Fearless - 4.2 million copies
05. Michael Jackson - Thriller (25th Anniversary Reissue) - 4.0 million copies
06. Michael Jackson - Number Ones - 3.6 million copies
07. U2 - No Line On The Horizon - 3.5 million copies
08. Kings Of Leon - Only By The Night - 3.5 million copies
09. Michael Bublť - Crazy Love - 3.3 million copies
10. Beyoncť - I Am... Sasha Fierce - 3.2 million copies

                      How could anyone claim that one of the biggest selling albums of the year had no impact on the tour that was supporting it?

                 Look at what happened with POP and POPMART. The POP album sold relatively poorly and the tour struggled to sell tickets as a result. The fact is, the success of U2's albums have a huge impact on the tours supporting each album.

             
             

Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: Should U2 not try to outdo the 360 tour?
« Reply #459 on: January 08, 2013, 10:14:32 PM »
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    Except it wasn't like 360. The album Voodoo Lounge did not make the global top 40 for year end sales. In contrast, NLOTH was the 7th biggest selling album of 2009. The 360 tour was supporting a hit album. The Voodoo Lounge tour was not supporting a hit album.

Voodoo Lounge sold 6 Million copies in comparison to the 7 Million that Zooropa sold a year earlier, so for the Stones it was a commercially successful album, as well as being critically acclaimed.  But the tour didnít owe its success to the albumís popularity but rather because the Stones were a huge brand in live music and because stadium fatigued hadnít yet set in.  They catered to the crowd playing mainly back catalogue songs from the Ď60s and Ď70s.  And like U2 on 360, they satisfied their artistic desire and their real fans by playing a fair number of new songs from the new album, which declined in number as the tour progressed and which were probably received coolly by the casual fans.

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         Also, the GROSS figure for 360 is more than double that for Voodoo Lounge, despite the fact 360 had less shows.

Of course the gross was double since the Stones were selling tickets at 1994 prices, where as U2 were selling them at 2009 prices.  If inflation doesnít account for all the difference, then itís because U2 charged more extortionate prices for their tickets than the Stones did.  And if U2 had played a regular stage configuration then they would have sold fewer tickets than the Stones, and if the Stones had played a 360 configuration on the Voodoo Lounge tour then maybe they would have sold more tickets than U2.

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         Also, look at what has happened on the Stones tours since Voodoo Lounge, the attendance has declined. The Stones last tour did 4.6 million in attendance.


U2ís future tour attendance numbers will also decline like the Stones did since stadium fatigue will set in for their fans, especially in North America, just like it did for Stonesí fans.  The Stones played 125 stadium shows in 1994/95 but they couldnít pull enough punters in to do that now.  And as an artist gets older and plays a similar show tour after tour, they become too familiar and as a result they lose some of their specialness.  By the next tour a U2 concert ticket wonít be as hot as it was for 360 and a lot more punters will query whether theyíre worth standing in a stadium for.


Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: Should U2 not try to outdo the 360 tour?
« Reply #460 on: January 08, 2013, 10:19:22 PM »
Given that album sales have fallen in the music industry as a whole, quoting chart positions is useless in ascertaining the popularity of U2ís new music amongst the casual record buying public, as essentially it was the existing fan base who bought NLOTH despite U2 tinkering with it, and compromising the final product in my view, to appeal more to the mass market.  Yet clearly 360 attracted casual concert goers, in addition to longer term fans, but these werenít converted into record sales as the tourís ticket sales were double the NLOTH album sales.  So, probably the large majority of the casual ticket buyers had not bought the album beforehand and the large majority of the casual concert goers didnít then buy NLOTH after seeing the show.  This indicates that the album wasnít the reason why casual fans went to see 360 and that the tour didnít promote sales of NLOTH, as you suggest happens. 

Now I am finally done with bethere because not only is he boring me but I'm starting to bore myself arguing the toss with him.



Offline U2runnr

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Re: Should U2 not try to outdo the 360 tour?
« Reply #461 on: January 08, 2013, 10:31:40 PM »
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War tour. Same number of new songs beginning and end of tour.

Ditto UF.

Just sayin'
Well, thats not much of a point. At the point of War they needed the new material cause they didn't have the mass of hit songs in their catalogue.

Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: Should U2 not try to outdo the 360 tour?
« Reply #462 on: January 08, 2013, 10:43:40 PM »
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War tour. Same number of new songs beginning and end of tour.

Ditto UF.

Just sayin'
Well, thats not much of a point. At the point of War they needed the new material cause they didn't have the mass of hit songs in their catalogue.

During the WAR tour they were still making it and it was their new music that was continuing to win new fans, so of course they played a lot of their new stuff, where as on 360 they were selling their famous body of work - especially the hits - built up over three decades, to casual and real fans alike.  They also gave their real fans quite a bit of their new stuff for a time, but by some accounts, the 360 show flowed more when they played little from NLOTH than when they played seven or six songs from NLOTH.  In contrast, the Zoo TV tour flowed perfectly playing ten or more songs from their new albums.





« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 10:47:32 PM by Tumbling Dice »

Offline bethere

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Re: Should U2 not try to outdo the 360 tour?
« Reply #463 on: January 08, 2013, 10:49:10 PM »
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    Except it wasn't like 360. The album Voodoo Lounge did not make the global top 40 for year end sales. In contrast, NLOTH was the 7th biggest selling album of 2009. The 360 tour was supporting a hit album. The Voodoo Lounge tour was not supporting a hit album.

Voodoo Lounge sold 6 Million copies in comparison to the 7 Million that Zooropa sold a year earlier, so for the Stones it was a commercially successful album, as well as being critically acclaimed.  But the tour didnít owe its success to the albumís popularity but rather because the Stones were a huge brand in live music and because stadium fatigued hadnít yet set in.  They catered to the crowd playing mainly back catalogue songs from the Ď60s and Ď70s.  And like U2 on 360, they satisfied their artistic desire and their real fans by playing a fair number of new songs from the new album, which declined in number as the tour progressed and which were probably received coolly by the casual fans.


               Those are incorrect sales for Voodoo Lounge. The Voodoo Lounge album only sold 2 million copies in the United States and 1 million copies in Europe plus another 1 million outside of those markets for a total of 4 million worldwide.

              4 million copies sold worldwide was not enough to make the global top 40 back in 1994. So the Voodoo Lounge tour was not in support of a hit album in the way that 360 was in support of the NLOTH album, the 7th highest selling album worldwide of 2009.


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         Also, the GROSS figure for 360 is more than double that for Voodoo Lounge, despite the fact 360 had less shows.

Of course the gross was double since the Stones were selling tickets at 1994 prices, where as U2 were selling them at 2009 prices.  If inflation doesnít account for all the difference, then itís because U2 charged more extortionate prices for their tickets than the Stones did.  And if U2 had played a regular stage configuration then they would have sold fewer tickets than the Stones, and if the Stones had played a 360 configuration on the Voodoo Lounge tour then maybe they would have sold more tickets than U2.

              Inflation would only account for 50% of that, no more. If U2 had played a regular stage configuration, they would have SOLD MORE TICKETS than they did in the 360 configuration because the smaller stage setup allows you to play more shows. Its easier to sell 80,000 tickets in a single market when you play two shows in a 40,000 seat venue. But when you play a massive show in a 70,000 seat venue, there is not enough demand for a second show, so your stuck with 70,000 tickets sold, as opposed to the 80,000 tickets you could have sold with the two shows in the 40,000 seat venue. More shows allows more opportunity for people who like to attend multiple shows, plus adding more nights allows people with scheduling conflicts to attend.

              The 360 configuration was new an interesting and can only be done with massive demand. But the band is boxed in to having to be able to sell an average of 66,000 tickets a show. If they are only going to get 40,000 or 45,000 for a second show, then they won't do it because the stadium will look 1/3 or more empty. This limits the number of shows the band can play and puts a cap on the number of people that can attend the tour. If the band had been able to put on shows in the normal configuration as well as do some arena shows, they could have added more shows to the tour, and increase the overall attendance on the tour.

              Voodoo Lounge on the other hand had some shows that were filled up well, but far from being soldout showing that the Stones had met their demand by playing shows at lower capacities. If the Stones had done a 360 tour on Voodoo Lounge, it would have heavily reduced the number of shows they could have played, and the attendance numbers would have fallen off.



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         Also, look at what has happened on the Stones tours since Voodoo Lounge, the attendance has declined. The Stones last tour did 4.6 million in attendance.


U2ís future tour attendance numbers will also decline like the Stones did since stadium fatigue will set in for their fans, especially in North America, just like it did for Stonesí fans.  The Stones played 125 stadium shows in 1994/95 but they couldnít pull enough punters in to do that now.  And as an artist gets older and plays a similar show tour after tour, they become too familiar and as a result they lose some of their specialness.  By the next tour a U2 concert ticket wonít be as hot as it was for 360 and a lot more punters will query whether theyíre worth standing in a stadium fo

                 Well, there were some people who claimed that U2 would never break the Stones records. They were wrong. U2 are not the Stones. U2 are a different beast. The Rolling Stones NEVER suffered through something like POP/POPMART. At the same time, the Stones have not had the album selling success of NLOTH in 30 years. The last time the Stones had a top 10 global selling album for the year was back in 1981 with Tattoo You.

                  I'm confident that U2 will break their own records for 360 in both gross and attendance.

Offline bethere

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Re: Should U2 not try to outdo the 360 tour?
« Reply #464 on: January 08, 2013, 10:58:24 PM »
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Given that album sales have fallen in the music industry as a whole, quoting chart positions is useless in ascertaining the popularity of U2ís new music amongst the casual record buying public, as essentially it was the existing fan base who bought NLOTH despite U2 tinkering with it, and compromising the final product in my view, to appeal more to the mass market.

             Actually it remains the only relevant way of doing so. The market has a significant impact on what everyone is selling in a given year and while that may make unit to unit sales comparisons between some years invalid, what is always valid is how well the album sold in that given year vs the other albums being sold that year. You find that in the year end global sales charts. Having the 7th biggest selling album of 2009 is just as relavent popularity wise as having the 7th biggest selling album of 2000 or 1992. The same can be said of having the biggest selling album of the year as well.

            Who purchased the record is first unknown and second irrelevant. The fact is, the album that sells the most in any given year is the most popular album of that year, period. It doesn't matter WHO purchased the album!


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  Yet clearly 360 attracted casual concert goers, in addition to longer term fans, but these werenít converted into record sales as the tourís ticket sales were double the NLOTH album sales.  So, probably the large majority of the casual ticket buyers had not bought the album beforehand and the large majority of the casual concert goers didnít then buy NLOTH after seeing the show.  This indicates that the album wasnít the reason why casual fans went to see 360 and that the tour didnít promote sales of NLOTH, as you suggest happens. 

             The only reason the 360 tour sold more tickets than NLOTH's album sales is the vast changes to the market that have been seen in the past 5 to 10 years. Millions of people obtained NLOTH and other albums without purchasing the albums. So the 360 shows were chock full of people who had NLOTH but had NEVER purchased it. They obtained it for free and so their albums were never recorded as sales.