Author Topic: do we owe our lives to jfk and rfk  (Read 1352 times)

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Offline imedi

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do we owe our lives to jfk and rfk
« on: November 06, 2012, 04:21:39 PM »
listened to a guy on the radio today talk about the cuban missile crisis in the 60s... while i knew some of the details before.. i did not know the degree of pressure that was on jfk and rfk to use military force on the russians .. pressure from his own generals and even his vice president just thinkn if they had gone down that road of war none of us would even be alive today.. scary thought good job the right people were in charge at the time..



Offline So Cruel

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Re: do we owe our lives to jfk and rfk
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2012, 05:52:10 PM »
You may want to investigate that period of the Cold War a little further. I give full props to JFK for how he handled the Cuban Missle Crisis (watch the movie Thirteen Days, it's about JFK and his inner circle during the crisis and is a great movie), but the failure of the Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba was an embarrassment to the U.S and to Kennedy and it led Castro to become more popular with his people and for him to have closer relations with the Soviets. If the Bay of Pigs had been successful or if it had not been given the go ahead there wouldn't have been a Cuban Missle Crisis.

Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: do we owe our lives to jfk and rfk
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2012, 06:18:52 PM »
I can strongly recommend this book on the Cuban missile crisis:

The Crisis Years: Kennedy & Krushchev 1960-63 by Michael Beschloss.


Offline Drummer Boy

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Re: do we owe our lives to jfk and rfk
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2012, 05:01:02 PM »
I recommend Fidel Castro's version of the story, to get the balance right.

U.S. citizens' view of Castro might be just a little biased, if you've only heard the American side of it.

The story, as told by himself, is extremely interesting (even if you hate the guy... he has dealt with 8 U.S. Presidents).

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Offline imedi

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Re: do we owe our lives to jfk and rfk
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2012, 08:21:51 AM »
thx for the info i will check out those sources . what really shocked me about this episode in history was how so many senior people were prepared to use nukes so quickly it really makes you wonder if say someone like george bush had been in charge at that time scary times :-\

Offline So Cruel

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Re: do we owe our lives to jfk and rfk
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2012, 11:25:22 AM »
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thx for the info i will check out those sources . what really shocked me about this episode in history was how so many senior people were prepared to use nukes so quickly it really makes you wonder if say someone like george bush had been in charge at that time scary times :-\

The military option wasn't to nuke Cuba, it was to air strike the known missle sites with the option to do a land invasion to overthrow Castro.

The only way nukes would have been in play is if the Russians decided to actually use them and that was a very minimal possibility. The Russians knew that if they nuked the U.S that the U.S in turn would nuke Moscow. The reason the Russians wanted to set up in missles in Cuba was to force the U.S to shut down their missle bases in Turkey, and that was achieved. George Bush may have chosen to air strike the missle sites which was the military option at the time but that doesn't mean it would have ended in a nucleur war. Whichever side would have picked the nuke option would have known that it meant their own cities/citizens would be nuked and I don't think even the Soviets were that crazy.

Offline Drummer Boy

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Re: do we owe our lives to jfk and rfk
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2012, 04:34:30 PM »
I have that same kind of fear, today. With the U.S. and Israel threatening to attack Iran.

Regardless of what you think of Iran, I think one should always hear both bells, or both sides of the story. And Iran's President gave many interviews where he explained, among other things, that both the U.S. and Israel have several nuclear bombs (or weapons of mass distruction), and that both nations show some perverse hypocrisy, when they use the argument that "Iran could be building a nuclear bomb!", as an excuse for what they really want, which is to invade Iran, and gain control of its oil deposits. And all this in the name of "democracy", or the "safety" of mankind. Yeah, right...

Well, excuse my rant, I'm actually very concerned about what could happen. This is Israel's current attitude on the subject: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

And, speaking of Castro, a few years ago he provided a glimpse of what would happen if the U.S.A. and Israel were to attack Iran: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Offline So Cruel

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Re: do we owe our lives to jfk and rfk
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2012, 07:22:23 PM »
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I have that same kind of fear, today. With the U.S. and Israel threatening to attack Iran.

Regardless of what you think of Iran, I think one should always hear both bells, or both sides of the story. And Iran's President gave many interviews where he explained, among other things, that both the U.S. and Israel have several nuclear bombs (or weapons of mass distruction), and that both nations show some perverse hypocrisy, when they use the argument that "Iran could be building a nuclear bomb!", as an excuse for what they really want, which is to invade Iran, and gain control of its oil deposits. And all this in the name of "democracy", or the "safety" of mankind. Yeah, right...

Well, excuse my rant, I'm actually very concerned about what could happen. This is Israel's current attitude on the subject: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

And, speaking of Castro, a few years ago he provided a glimpse of what would happen if the U.S.A. and Israel were to attack Iran: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

There's a big difference. Iran has publicly stated that it wants to wipe Israel off the map. The US has had nukes for 60 years and have not used them. The world doesn't need more nukes (especially in dictatorships like Iran), it needs less. The president of the US can't just decide one day to nuke a country, decisions for war have to go through congress. Iran wouldn't have to go through that process. You're not really making a good case for why Iran needs nukes.

Offline Drummer Boy

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Re: do we owe our lives to jfk and rfk
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2012, 07:46:50 PM »
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I have that same kind of fear, today. With the U.S. and Israel threatening to attack Iran.

Regardless of what you think of Iran, I think one should always hear both bells, or both sides of the story. And Iran's President gave many interviews where he explained, among other things, that both the U.S. and Israel have several nuclear bombs (or weapons of mass distruction), and that both nations show some perverse hypocrisy, when they use the argument that "Iran could be building a nuclear bomb!", as an excuse for what they really want, which is to invade Iran, and gain control of its oil deposits. And all this in the name of "democracy", or the "safety" of mankind. Yeah, right...

Well, excuse my rant, I'm actually very concerned about what could happen. This is Israel's current attitude on the subject: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

And, speaking of Castro, a few years ago he provided a glimpse of what would happen if the U.S.A. and Israel were to attack Iran: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

There's a big difference. Iran has publicly stated that it wants to wipe Israel off the map. The US has had nukes for 60 years and have not used them. The world doesn't need more nukes (especially in dictatorships like Iran), it needs less. The president of the US can't just decide one day to nuke a country, decisions for war have to go through congress. Iran wouldn't have to go through that process. You're not really making a good case for why Iran needs nukes.

A) I'm not making a case for Iran needing nukes, I'm saying they will be attacked because of allegedly being building one nuclear weapon, while the countries who will perform the attack have dozens of nuclear weapons. Last time a country was attacked by allegedly having nukes (Irak), it was a flat out lie, it costed a fortune to U.S. citizens, and Bush even laughed at those inexistent weapons in public.

B) American people didn't want to invade Irak (or for that matter Vietnam, way back then), and yet the Government found a way to do it anyway, didn't they? Yeah, they went to congress before, I'm sure you can't manipulate congress decisions. That's why both Reps and Democrats said Yes to invading Irak, in spite of the whole country being against it. You think you live in Democracy, but people who make such important decisions don't give a damn about what the American people think. That and a dictatorship are the same thing, only difference being that your dictatorship is disguised as democracy.

C) If the U.S.A. government wanted to attack Iran tomorrow, they would still do it, even if the entire country were against the idea. The government would either do it through congress (as with Irak), or by manipulating public opinion with an inside job, false flag attack (as with Afghanistan). Before you argue that point, please look for information about 9/11 on You Tube, specially about Tower 7, which collapsed all by itself, in controlled demolition, without having been hit by even a mosquito. Yeah, but the U.S. live an absolute democracy.

D) Over the last years, the U.S.A. has invaded or attacked at least four countries without a real reason, and, once again, using words like "terror" and "democracy" as lame excuses for what they really are doing: gaining control over the middle east, with eyes only on oil reserves. In the same period, Iran has attacked no-one. The line about wiping Israel of the map, I'm not sure where it comes from. Did it come from the President? What was the context? I'd like to know, if you have the original source.

Offline Drummer Boy

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Re: do we owe our lives to jfk and rfk
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2012, 08:20:23 PM »
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About the "Wiping Israel off the map" quote.

There is an eternal war between Israelis and Palestinians, and Israel hasn't behaved any better than Iran, they just have a cleaner image, worldwide. In the U.S.A., it's incredible how well both images have been shaped by the media (Israel as the "good guys", who are "friends" with the USA; and Muslims in general as "the bad guys", and "crazy terrorists ruled by dictators", who need the gentle people of the USA to step in and bring peace).

What never ceases to amaze me is how many people keep buying those manipulations.

Offline JTBaby

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Re: do we owe our lives to jfk and rfk
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2012, 07:36:49 AM »
If Israel wants to attack Iran, let 'em. just don't drag us along.

I'm as sick of americans playing along with Israel at every turn as i am of us constantly giving financial aid to Pakistan. Let these guys figure it out amongst themselves. They will eventually. iran an diraq fought a bloody war to a standstill, maybe Iran and Israel can do the same.


Offline So Cruel

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Re: do we owe our lives to jfk and rfk
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2012, 10:47:34 AM »
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If Israel wants to attack Iran, let 'em. just don't drag us along.

I'm as sick of americans playing along with Israel at every turn as i am of us constantly giving financial aid to Pakistan. Let these guys figure it out amongst themselves. They will eventually. iran an diraq fought a bloody war to a standstill, maybe Iran and Israel can do the same.



Israel has the biggest and best military in the middle east. Iran wouldn't want do to well.

Offline JTBaby

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Re: do we owe our lives to jfk and rfk
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2012, 10:54:19 AM »
All the more reason not to let Israel drag us into their fight.

One of the two presidential candidates is less likely to attack Iran. We elected the right one.


Offline So Cruel

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Re: do we owe our lives to jfk and rfk
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2012, 10:54:50 AM »
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I have that same kind of fear, today. With the U.S. and Israel threatening to attack Iran.

Regardless of what you think of Iran, I think one should always hear both bells, or both sides of the story. And Iran's President gave many interviews where he explained, among other things, that both the U.S. and Israel have several nuclear bombs (or weapons of mass distruction), and that both nations show some perverse hypocrisy, when they use the argument that "Iran could be building a nuclear bomb!", as an excuse for what they really want, which is to invade Iran, and gain control of its oil deposits. And all this in the name of "democracy", or the "safety" of mankind. Yeah, right...

Well, excuse my rant, I'm actually very concerned about what could happen. This is Israel's current attitude on the subject: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

And, speaking of Castro, a few years ago he provided a glimpse of what would happen if the U.S.A. and Israel were to attack Iran: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

There's a big difference. Iran has publicly stated that it wants to wipe Israel off the map. The US has had nukes for 60 years and have not used them. The world doesn't need more nukes (especially in dictatorships like Iran), it needs less. The president of the US can't just decide one day to nuke a country, decisions for war have to go through congress. Iran wouldn't have to go through that process. You're not really making a good case for why Iran needs nukes.

A) I'm not making a case for Iran needing nukes, I'm saying they will be attacked because of allegedly being building one nuclear weapon, while the countries who will perform the attack have dozens of nuclear weapons. Last time a country was attacked by allegedly having nukes (Irak), it was a flat out lie, it costed a fortune to U.S. citizens, and Bush even laughed at those inexistent weapons in public.

B) American people didn't want to invade Irak (or for that matter Vietnam, way back then), and yet the Government found a way to do it anyway, didn't they? Yeah, they went to congress before, I'm sure you can't manipulate congress decisions. That's why both Reps and Democrats said Yes to invading Irak, in spite of the whole country being against it. You think you live in Democracy, but people who make such important decisions don't give a damn about what the American people think. That and a dictatorship are the same thing, only difference being that your dictatorship is disguised as democracy.

C) If the U.S.A. government wanted to attack Iran tomorrow, they would still do it, even if the entire country were against the idea. The government would either do it through congress (as with Irak), or by manipulating public opinion with an inside job, false flag attack (as with Afghanistan). Before you argue that point, please look for information about 9/11 on You Tube, specially about Tower 7, which collapsed all by itself, in controlled demolition, without having been hit by even a mosquito. Yeah, but the U.S. live an absolute democracy.

D) Over the last years, the U.S.A. has invaded or attacked at least four countries without a real reason, and, once again, using words like "terror" and "democracy" as lame excuses for what they really are doing: gaining control over the middle east, with eyes only on oil reserves. In the same period, Iran has attacked no-one. The line about wiping Israel of the map, I'm not sure where it comes from. Did it come from the President? What was the context? I'd like to know, if you have the original source.

You've gone of the deep end with your conspiracy theories. There was no "inside job" with 9/11, and those theories have already been debunked. Bottom line is that Iran having nukes is not a good thing. The very last option is air strikes and everything else should be tried before it gets to that point, but if those talks don't work then let Israel bomb the hell out of their nucleur plant. No need for a ground war.

Offline Drummer Boy

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Re: do we owe our lives to jfk and rfk
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2012, 02:18:50 PM »
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You've gone of the deep end with your conspiracy theories. There was no "inside job" with 9/11, and those theories have already been debunked. Bottom line is that Iran having nukes is not a good thing. The very last option is air strikes and everything else should be tried before it gets to that point, but if those talks don't work then let Israel bomb the hell out of their nucleur plant. No need for a ground war.

If you wanna be a happy man, keep believing everything the Government and the media tells you.

If you want to know how the world really works, you can start by watching this:
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I always prefer knowing the truth, as painful as it might be.

And this is painful, indeed. Up to you, mate.