Author Topic: Bono says next album (SOE) will be experimental (ala Achtung Baby/Zooropa)  (Read 40571 times)

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Offline crank

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Re: Bono says next album (SOE) will be experimental (ala Achtung Baby/Zooropa)
« Reply #30 on: September 22, 2014, 06:55:15 AM »
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I'd love to see the Edge as full producer of SOE.

NO way, if that happens, nothing would ever get done. It'd take FOREVER.
The last time Edge had a production credit on an album was Zooropa, the quickest album release in their history. Not saying that would necessarily happen now, however.

Good point.

Offline Achtung_Baby_Lover

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Re: Bono says next album (SOE) will be experimental (ala Achtung Baby/Zooropa)
« Reply #31 on: September 22, 2014, 08:04:03 AM »
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However, my favorite quote is when Bono says, "Why is it not like Zoo Station? Why is not like Zooropa? It is not an experimental album.  It's an album of songs.  That's what we want. We do what we want.  Our last album was full of experimentation. This is a different kind of experimentation...it is as easy for me to blow your mind sonically...set off fireworks sonically. U2 can do that all day. We did it in the 90s. We did it our last album a bit. WE'LL DO IT ON THE NEXT ALBUM EVEN MORE.  But this is about songs. They are very difficult."

Hmmmm it's interesting....To me, SOI does have many catchy melodies, and some very interesting production. But many of the songs do sound 'pieced' together to me; in other words, great parts but they sound a little cut and paste.

In the interview, Bono talks about wanting to write 'timeless songs, busking songs, songs you'd hear waiting to catch the subway or on a street corner', etc. And I'm trying to think of which U2 songs actually fit this criteria....I don't think that the tunes on SOI meet this but perhaps it's actually the production getting in the way (kind of the opposite of the point he was trying to make).

The first example of a song of that nature that jumped into my head was 'Wonderwall' by Oasis. Simple, I think there are 4 maybe 5 chords in the whole song, with just a simple change in the chorus, but an absolutely timeless song that everyone sings along to - even if just in your head- when you hear it.

I just don't think U2 captured that here and I would love it if they had. I'm thinking maybe a song like 'One', definitely 'Stay' has that quality. But how do you define that quality? Again I think it is a very simple chord progression with a call and response type of melody in the verses and then a soaring chorus hook. And Bono is accurate when he says that's one of the most difficult tasks of all. And that's a hard bar. I mean, think of a song like the Beatles' 'Yesterday' for example - much less of an experimental song than much of their later stuff but timeless and really quite perfect. Or Dylan with 'Blowing in the Wind'. Simplicity yet the lyrics and melodies and progressions in these songs transcend and rise above the chaff to become timeless classics.

And again I say I don't think U2 have achieved that with SOI - even though there are some great hooks, some emotional moments. What do you guys think?
« Last Edit: September 22, 2014, 08:06:36 AM by Achtung_Baby_Lover »

Offline Johnny Feathers

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Re: Bono says next album (SOE) will be experimental (ala Achtung Baby/Zooropa)
« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2014, 08:34:26 AM »
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However, my favorite quote is when Bono says, "Why is it not like Zoo Station? Why is not like Zooropa? It is not an experimental album.  It's an album of songs.  That's what we want. We do what we want.  Our last album was full of experimentation. This is a different kind of experimentation...it is as easy for me to blow your mind sonically...set off fireworks sonically. U2 can do that all day. We did it in the 90s. We did it our last album a bit. WE'LL DO IT ON THE NEXT ALBUM EVEN MORE.  But this is about songs. They are very difficult."

Hmmmm it's interesting....To me, SOI does have many catchy melodies, and some very interesting production. But many of the songs do sound 'pieced' together to me; in other words, great parts but they sound a little cut and paste.

In the interview, Bono talks about wanting to write 'timeless songs, busking songs, songs you'd hear waiting to catch the subway or on a street corner', etc. And I'm trying to think of which U2 songs actually fit this criteria....I don't think that the tunes on SOI meet this but perhaps it's actually the production getting in the way (kind of the opposite of the point he was trying to make).

The first example of a song of that nature that jumped into my head was 'Wonderwall' by Oasis. Simple, I think there are 4 maybe 5 chords in the whole song, with just a simple change in the chorus, but an absolutely timeless song that everyone sings along to - even if just in your head- when you hear it.

I just don't think U2 captured that here and I would love it if they had. I'm thinking maybe a song like 'One', definitely 'Stay' has that quality. But how do you define that quality? Again I think it is a very simple chord progression with a call and response type of melody in the verses and then a soaring chorus hook. And Bono is accurate when he says that's one of the most difficult tasks of all. And that's a hard bar. I mean, think of a song like the Beatles' 'Yesterday' for example - much less of an experimental song than much of their later stuff but timeless and really quite perfect. Or Dylan with 'Blowing in the Wind'. Simplicity yet the lyrics and melodies and progressions in these songs transcend and rise above the chaff to become timeless classics.

And again I say I don't think U2 have achieved that with SOI - even though there are some great hooks, some emotional moments. What do you guys think?

You're maybe the first person I've seen on here who's expressed the same thing that I feel about the album--that it's "pieced together", and the production of it really draws attention to itself.  That's not to say I don't like the album--in fact, I do, moreso than most of the music they've done since Pop.  But it's hard for me to reconcile this as being an "album" in the same way as even Achtung Baby is, and AB is obviously very "produced" in and of itself.  Instead, it really does sound like a lot of cut and paste, and less concrete, full, takes.  I do think the songs are there--SFS is the best example of something that sounds like a "busking" song.  The writing is, to me, MILES better than NLOTH, and the production has actually become less noticeable for me over time.  But I think you have a fair point.  It's hard for me to say if the production on here was necessary to make them sound contemporary with current pop trends, or if it ultimately detracted from what are, in fact, good songs.  Ultimately, I do like it, but I've a feeling the production will prevent it from becoming a top-tier U2 album for me.

Offline Achtung_Baby_Lover

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Re: Bono says next album (SOE) will be experimental (ala Achtung Baby/Zooropa)
« Reply #33 on: September 22, 2014, 09:06:40 AM »
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However, my favorite quote is when Bono says, "Why is it not like Zoo Station? Why is not like Zooropa? It is not an experimental album.  It's an album of songs.  That's what we want. We do what we want.  Our last album was full of experimentation. This is a different kind of experimentation...it is as easy for me to blow your mind sonically...set off fireworks sonically. U2 can do that all day. We did it in the 90s. We did it our last album a bit. WE'LL DO IT ON THE NEXT ALBUM EVEN MORE.  But this is about songs. They are very difficult."

Hmmmm it's interesting....To me, SOI does have many catchy melodies, and some very interesting production. But many of the songs do sound 'pieced' together to me; in other words, great parts but they sound a little cut and paste.

In the interview, Bono talks about wanting to write 'timeless songs, busking songs, songs you'd hear waiting to catch the subway or on a street corner', etc. And I'm trying to think of which U2 songs actually fit this criteria....I don't think that the tunes on SOI meet this but perhaps it's actually the production getting in the way (kind of the opposite of the point he was trying to make).

The first example of a song of that nature that jumped into my head was 'Wonderwall' by Oasis. Simple, I think there are 4 maybe 5 chords in the whole song, with just a simple change in the chorus, but an absolutely timeless song that everyone sings along to - even if just in your head- when you hear it.

I just don't think U2 captured that here and I would love it if they had. I'm thinking maybe a song like 'One', definitely 'Stay' has that quality. But how do you define that quality? Again I think it is a very simple chord progression with a call and response type of melody in the verses and then a soaring chorus hook. And Bono is accurate when he says that's one of the most difficult tasks of all. And that's a hard bar. I mean, think of a song like the Beatles' 'Yesterday' for example - much less of an experimental song than much of their later stuff but timeless and really quite perfect. Or Dylan with 'Blowing in the Wind'. Simplicity yet the lyrics and melodies and progressions in these songs transcend and rise above the chaff to become timeless classics.

And again I say I don't think U2 have achieved that with SOI - even though there are some great hooks, some emotional moments. What do you guys think?

You're maybe the first person I've seen on here who's expressed the same thing that I feel about the album--that it's "pieced together", and the production of it really draws attention to itself.  That's not to say I don't like the album--in fact, I do, moreso than most of the music they've done since Pop.  But it's hard for me to reconcile this as being an "album" in the same way as even Achtung Baby is, and AB is obviously very "produced" in and of itself.  Instead, it really does sound like a lot of cut and paste, and less concrete, full, takes.  I do think the songs are there--SFS is the best example of something that sounds like a "busking" song.  The writing is, to me, MILES better than NLOTH, and the production has actually become less noticeable for me over time.  But I think you have a fair point.  It's hard for me to say if the production on here was necessary to make them sound contemporary with current pop trends, or if it ultimately detracted from what are, in fact, good songs.  Ultimately, I do like it, but I've a feeling the production will prevent it from becoming a top-tier U2 album for me.

I would agree with you that 'Song for Someone' has that 'busking' song quality, is emotive and really it is one of my favorites on the album. Whether is is an absolute 'classic' in the making, time perhaps will tell. But I agree that overall the album is miles ahead of NLOH, that is has a coherence as an album that is well realized.

But a song like Iris, or Raised By Wolves, The Miracle? I just don't know if Bono can back up his specific claim about these songs in the point he is trying to make.

lucas.homem

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Re: Bono says next album (SOE) will be experimental (ala Achtung Baby/Zooropa)
« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2014, 09:31:25 AM »
I don't know if Bono achieved his goal, but some of these songs may not be the ones that will be stuck in your head in your daily activities, but maybe they are great to sing along with some friends just for fun.

Thinking about it, singing Raised By Wolves must be really funny hahahahahahaha

Offline PopMartfan

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Re: Bono says next album (SOE) will be experimental (ala Achtung Baby/Zooropa)
« Reply #35 on: September 22, 2014, 11:11:10 AM »
Someone earlier in the thread mentioned how "the U2 of the 90s are back," and I love it, I really think so too. Checkout the Time Magazine cover.. Bono with new shades dark as the fly, head cocked back, looking like he's ready to knock you out. That's the U2 I want! Not the softness of the 2000s. Let's hope SLABT and Bono's comments are a sign of things to come.

Offline U2 Fan of the 90s

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Re: Bono says next album (SOE) will be experimental (ala Achtung Baby/Zooropa)
« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2014, 11:18:08 AM »
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Someone earlier in the thread mentioned how "the U2 of the 90s are back," and I love it, I really think so too. Checkout the Time Magazine cover.. Bono with new shades dark as the fly, head cocked back, looking like he's ready to knock you out. That's the U2 I want! Not the softness of the 2000s. Let's hope SLABT and Bono's comments are a sign of things to come.

This is what i am talking about! Get the songs that match the swagger... Troubles and SLABT are def on the right path...

Offline miami

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Re: Bono says next album (SOE) will be experimental (ala Achtung Baby/Zooropa)
« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2014, 01:28:17 PM »
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However, my favorite quote is when Bono says, "Why is it not like Zoo Station? Why is not like Zooropa? It is not an experimental album.  It's an album of songs.  That's what we want. We do what we want.  Our last album was full of experimentation. This is a different kind of experimentation...it is as easy for me to blow your mind sonically...set off fireworks sonically. U2 can do that all day. We did it in the 90s. We did it our last album a bit. WE'LL DO IT ON THE NEXT ALBUM EVEN MORE.  But this is about songs. They are very difficult."

Hmmmm it's interesting....To me, SOI does have many catchy melodies, and some very interesting production. But many of the songs do sound 'pieced' together to me; in other words, great parts but they sound a little cut and paste.

In the interview, Bono talks about wanting to write 'timeless songs, busking songs, songs you'd hear waiting to catch the subway or on a street corner', etc. And I'm trying to think of which U2 songs actually fit this criteria....I don't think that the tunes on SOI meet this but perhaps it's actually the production getting in the way (kind of the opposite of the point he was trying to make).

The first example of a song of that nature that jumped into my head was 'Wonderwall' by Oasis. Simple, I think there are 4 maybe 5 chords in the whole song, with just a simple change in the chorus, but an absolutely timeless song that everyone sings along to - even if just in your head- when you hear it.

I just don't think U2 captured that here and I would love it if they had. I'm thinking maybe a song like 'One', definitely 'Stay' has that quality. But how do you define that quality? Again I think it is a very simple chord progression with a call and response type of melody in the verses and then a soaring chorus hook. And Bono is accurate when he says that's one of the most difficult tasks of all. And that's a hard bar. I mean, think of a song like the Beatles' 'Yesterday' for example - much less of an experimental song than much of their later stuff but timeless and really quite perfect. Or Dylan with 'Blowing in the Wind'. Simplicity yet the lyrics and melodies and progressions in these songs transcend and rise above the chaff to become timeless classics.

And again I say I don't think U2 have achieved that with SOI - even though there are some great hooks, some emotional moments. What do you guys think?

You're maybe the first person I've seen on here who's expressed the same thing that I feel about the album--that it's "pieced together", and the production of it really draws attention to itself.  That's not to say I don't like the album--in fact, I do, moreso than most of the music they've done since Pop.  But it's hard for me to reconcile this as being an "album" in the same way as even Achtung Baby is, and AB is obviously very "produced" in and of itself.  Instead, it really does sound like a lot of cut and paste, and less concrete, full, takes.  I do think the songs are there--SFS is the best example of something that sounds like a "busking" song.  The writing is, to me, MILES better than NLOTH, and the production has actually become less noticeable for me over time.  But I think you have a fair point.  It's hard for me to say if the production on here was necessary to make them sound contemporary with current pop trends, or if it ultimately detracted from what are, in fact, good songs.  Ultimately, I do like it, but I've a feeling the production will prevent it from becoming a top-tier U2 album for me.

Another example of people over-thinking and putting too much emphasis on the 'production' aspect of albums. They are all melodic songs, they each have a verse, chorus and a bridge. This idea of a cut and paste has been going on for the last 20 or so years since computers became central to the mixing process.

Cut and paste to you might mean something else to me, can songs not ebb and flow or do they have to be one dimensional bore-fests all the time like wonderwall? ie; are you saying EVERY song must be as easily played as wonderwall?

If so, I'd rather have (cut and paste) songs like miracle, zooropa and discotheque over wonderwall and 'one' any day of the week.

For the record, which tunes on the album do you consider cut and paste?
« Last Edit: September 22, 2014, 01:30:51 PM by miami »

Offline Achtung_Baby_Lover

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Re: Bono says next album (SOE) will be experimental (ala Achtung Baby/Zooropa)
« Reply #38 on: September 22, 2014, 02:13:05 PM »
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However, my favorite quote is when Bono says, "Why is it not like Zoo Station? Why is not like Zooropa? It is not an experimental album.  It's an album of songs.  That's what we want. We do what we want.  Our last album was full of experimentation. This is a different kind of experimentation...it is as easy for me to blow your mind sonically...set off fireworks sonically. U2 can do that all day. We did it in the 90s. We did it our last album a bit. WE'LL DO IT ON THE NEXT ALBUM EVEN MORE.  But this is about songs. They are very difficult."

Hmmmm it's interesting....To me, SOI does have many catchy melodies, and some very interesting production. But many of the songs do sound 'pieced' together to me; in other words, great parts but they sound a little cut and paste.

In the interview, Bono talks about wanting to write 'timeless songs, busking songs, songs you'd hear waiting to catch the subway or on a street corner', etc. And I'm trying to think of which U2 songs actually fit this criteria....I don't think that the tunes on SOI meet this but perhaps it's actually the production getting in the way (kind of the opposite of the point he was trying to make).

The first example of a song of that nature that jumped into my head was 'Wonderwall' by Oasis. Simple, I think there are 4 maybe 5 chords in the whole song, with just a simple change in the chorus, but an absolutely timeless song that everyone sings along to - even if just in your head- when you hear it.

I just don't think U2 captured that here and I would love it if they had. I'm thinking maybe a song like 'One', definitely 'Stay' has that quality. But how do you define that quality? Again I think it is a very simple chord progression with a call and response type of melody in the verses and then a soaring chorus hook. And Bono is accurate when he says that's one of the most difficult tasks of all. And that's a hard bar. I mean, think of a song like the Beatles' 'Yesterday' for example - much less of an experimental song than much of their later stuff but timeless and really quite perfect. Or Dylan with 'Blowing in the Wind'. Simplicity yet the lyrics and melodies and progressions in these songs transcend and rise above the chaff to become timeless classics.

And again I say I don't think U2 have achieved that with SOI - even though there are some great hooks, some emotional moments. What do you guys think?

You're maybe the first person I've seen on here who's expressed the same thing that I feel about the album--that it's "pieced together", and the production of it really draws attention to itself.  That's not to say I don't like the album--in fact, I do, moreso than most of the music they've done since Pop.  But it's hard for me to reconcile this as being an "album" in the same way as even Achtung Baby is, and AB is obviously very "produced" in and of itself.  Instead, it really does sound like a lot of cut and paste, and less concrete, full, takes.  I do think the songs are there--SFS is the best example of something that sounds like a "busking" song.  The writing is, to me, MILES better than NLOTH, and the production has actually become less noticeable for me over time.  But I think you have a fair point.  It's hard for me to say if the production on here was necessary to make them sound contemporary with current pop trends, or if it ultimately detracted from what are, in fact, good songs.  Ultimately, I do like it, but I've a feeling the production will prevent it from becoming a top-tier U2 album for me.

Another example of people over-thinking and putting too much emphasis on the 'production' aspect of albums. They are all melodic songs, they each have a verse, chorus and a bridge. This idea of a cut and paste has been going on for the last 20 or so years since computers became central to the mixing process.

Cut and paste to you might mean something else to me, can songs not ebb and flow or do they have to be one dimensional bore-fests all the time like wonderwall? ie; are you saying EVERY song must be as easily played as wonderwall?

If so, I'd rather have (cut and paste) songs like miracle, zooropa and discotheque over wonderwall and 'one' any day of the week.

For the record, which tunes on the album do you consider cut and paste?

Well it's a bit of a subjective thing but take for example 'Iris' - starts off absolutely angelic...then we get that very cool classic old-school U2 drive/Edge guitar....verse comes in, low Bono vocals kind of menacing...then we get that 'something in your eyes' part- which harmonically is interesting but it doesn't draw me in, it honestly sounds like too much of an experiment to me...and a little part maybe pasted in...then the 'hold me close' part of the chorus which is catchy and kind of yearning, the way it is sung...and the slight break down with the rhythm section kind of kills the build/momentum but its a very cool guitar part...then the 'Iris' chorus which leaves me wanting, it doesn't do much for me at all...'

So by the end of the first chorus, I can sit there and say 'wow' a bunch of cool parts,some interesting things going on - but it doesn't pull me in emotionally in the same way that many of their songs have in the past - whether it's a 'busking' type song or a more 'production experimental' type. I can name many a U2 song that have parts, breakdowns, interesting intros etc...that I really like. And I'm not really dissing this record at all, I'm just still trying to find where it sits with me overall.

Raised By Wolves' is another - although it's one of my favs on the record...but some of the guitar parts feel pasted in, and the flow of it has a little bit disjointed feel....'Cedarwood Road', it's got that intro guitar that repeats under the chorus or pre-chorus? But then we have that riff I swear that's a Black Sabbath song! I just don't care for it at all - then we have that cool kind of Beatleseque verse, then that little 'North side...just across the river' bit that's kind weird and cool....see I end up analyzing the songs as a collection of cool little parts strung together as opposed to as a song that pulls me in and wraps around me...in the way something like 'Please' does...which has parts and break downs and experimentation etc...

But my point was more in questioning if these songs have that 'SONG' quality that Bono was espousing in the interviews, and I'm still not sure they do, for me :)

Offline achtung child

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Re: Bono says next album (SOE) will be experimental (ala Achtung Baby/Zooropa)
« Reply #39 on: September 22, 2014, 03:38:04 PM »
I reeeaaally wish people would stop with The Beatles comparisons.  God love 'em, but they are irrelevant now.  I know shoot me, but it's time to move on.  ALOT of Beatles songs are boring and self-admittedly noodling. 

lucas.homem

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Re: Bono says next album (SOE) will be experimental (ala Achtung Baby/Zooropa)
« Reply #40 on: September 22, 2014, 03:41:48 PM »
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I reeeaaally wish people would stop with The Beatles comparisons.  God love 'em, but they are irrelevant now.  I know shoot me, but it's time to move on.  ALOT of Beatles songs are boring and self-admittedly noodling.

I don't know if it happens only where I live, but Beatles is, by far, the old band that most people like, play, sing etc, even in parties. And I say that as a 22 years old that goes to all these places.

Offline loungeshep

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Re: Bono says next album (SOE) will be experimental (ala Achtung Baby/Zooropa)
« Reply #41 on: September 22, 2014, 03:57:33 PM »
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I reeeaaally wish people would stop with The Beatles comparisons.  God love 'em, but they are irrelevant now.  I know shoot me, but it's time to move on.  ALOT of Beatles songs are boring and self-admittedly noodling.

Agreed, there's so many other bands that came after and around the Beatles that are actually better.

Offline Eno

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Re: Bono says next album (SOE) will be experimental (ala Achtung Baby/Zooropa)
« Reply #42 on: September 22, 2014, 04:49:15 PM »
The Beatles are horribly overrated but I understand why they are where they are.

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Re: Bono says next album (SOE) will be experimental (ala Achtung Baby/Zooropa)
« Reply #43 on: September 22, 2014, 07:43:49 PM »
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However, my favorite quote is when Bono says, "Why is it not like Zoo Station? Why is not like Zooropa? It is not an experimental album.  It's an album of songs.  That's what we want. We do what we want.  Our last album was full of experimentation. This is a different kind of experimentation...it is as easy for me to blow your mind sonically...set off fireworks sonically. U2 can do that all day. We did it in the 90s. We did it our last album a bit. WE'LL DO IT ON THE NEXT ALBUM EVEN MORE.  But this is about songs. They are very difficult."

Hmmmm it's interesting....To me, SOI does have many catchy melodies, and some very interesting production. But many of the songs do sound 'pieced' together to me; in other words, great parts but they sound a little cut and paste.

In the interview, Bono talks about wanting to write 'timeless songs, busking songs, songs you'd hear waiting to catch the subway or on a street corner', etc. And I'm trying to think of which U2 songs actually fit this criteria....I don't think that the tunes on SOI meet this but perhaps it's actually the production getting in the way (kind of the opposite of the point he was trying to make).

The first example of a song of that nature that jumped into my head was 'Wonderwall' by Oasis. Simple, I think there are 4 maybe 5 chords in the whole song, with just a simple change in the chorus, but an absolutely timeless song that everyone sings along to - even if just in your head- when you hear it.

I just don't think U2 captured that here and I would love it if they had. I'm thinking maybe a song like 'One', definitely 'Stay' has that quality. But how do you define that quality? Again I think it is a very simple chord progression with a call and response type of melody in the verses and then a soaring chorus hook. And Bono is accurate when he says that's one of the most difficult tasks of all. And that's a hard bar. I mean, think of a song like the Beatles' 'Yesterday' for example - much less of an experimental song than much of their later stuff but timeless and really quite perfect. Or Dylan with 'Blowing in the Wind'. Simplicity yet the lyrics and melodies and progressions in these songs transcend and rise above the chaff to become timeless classics.

And again I say I don't think U2 have achieved that with SOI - even though there are some great hooks, some emotional moments. What do you guys think?

I agree, and that was something I found a little odd while listening to Bono's interviews...it's not that I think the songs sound hollow or overproduced really at all...that's not a criticism I really throw around with U2 like some do. But...there seems to be a disconnect between what Bono is saying about the record and the record itself. It sounds more like he is describing ATYCLB..."eternal" songs that you could play on a piano or an acoustic guitar at a bar.

It's funny because Bono kind of confirmed the point I was trying to make a while ago in a different thread (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login), and while I think U2 made a pretty solid album with SOI, only about 2 songs, "Every Breaking Wave" and "The Troubles" really fit Bono's description of what kind of songs they wanted to make.

Offline dagobah

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Re: Bono says next album (SOE) will be experimental (ala Achtung Baby/Zooropa)
« Reply #44 on: September 22, 2014, 09:33:08 PM »
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Another example of people over-thinking . . . . . . .
miami:
Great post, but you could have stopped right there.  What would all these people do with their time if there wasn't an album to over-analyze?  Yeah, I know, they would over-analyze everything else about U2.  The same thing used to happen at the official Smashing Pumpkins forum.  Then, all of a sudden it stopped.  Why?  Because the forum was removed by the band or someone who works for them.  What are all those Smashing Pumpkins fans doing with all that free time?