Author Topic: Is the Joshua Tree really a Masterpiece?  (Read 2813 times)

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Offline riffraff

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Re: Is the Joshua Tree really a Masterpiece?
« Reply #45 on: March 10, 2017, 05:16:04 AM »
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This thread is the @u2 forum in a nutshell. A microcosm. A beautifully distilled version of an entire message board.

Well done us.
YAY!

Offline an tha

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Re: Is the Joshua Tree really a Masterpiece?
« Reply #46 on: March 10, 2017, 05:19:07 AM »
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I'm reading through the comments and I see people arguing as if they are bringing concrete evidence to the table or an objective analysis. However, there's not much explanation in the arguments that we can make reason about (music theory, sonics and timbre, performance, emotional delivery, originality, innovation, musical and lyrical concepts etc), only adjectives thrown here and there.

Of course, nobody is obliged to think that TJT is or is not a masterpiece, and that music's technical language is obscure to most, but if we're coming from personal feelings and taste (adjectives), we should be more relative in our opinions and more open to accept that TJT is what people want it to be, a masterpiece or not.

I'm not saying people are being agressive or rude here, because they are not, but there's a lot of groundless intransigence. IT IS A MASTERPIECE!! IT IS NOT A MASTERPIECE!! I'M OBVIOUSLY RIGHT!!

Beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder, isn't it.

Nobody is right, nobody is wrong - just differing opinions.

As Brisco alludes to above it is what here is all about - and why we love the place.

Offline riffraff

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Re: Is the Joshua Tree really a Masterpiece?
« Reply #47 on: March 10, 2017, 05:26:42 AM »
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I'm reading through the comments and I see people arguing as if they are bringing concrete evidence to the table or an objective analysis. However, there's not much explanation in the arguments that we can make reason about (music theory, sonics and timbre, performance, emotional delivery, originality, innovation, musical and lyrical concepts etc), only adjectives thrown here and there.

Of course, nobody is obliged to think that TJT is or is not a masterpiece, and that music's technical language is obscure to most, but if we're coming from personal feelings and taste (adjectives), we should be more relative in our opinions and more open to accept that TJT is what people want it to be, a masterpiece or not.

I'm not saying people are being agressive or rude here, because they are not, but there's a lot of groundless intransigence. IT IS A MASTERPIECE!! IT IS NOT A MASTERPIECE!! I'M OBVIOUSLY RIGHT!!

Beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder, isn't it.

Nobody is right, nobody is wrong - just differing opinions.

As Brisco alludes to above it is what here is all about - and why we love the place.
Exactly right, an tha...so it's my opinion that you should leave Elevation alone!!!  :P
« Last Edit: March 10, 2017, 05:29:06 AM by riffraff »

Offline lucas.homem

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Re: Is the Joshua Tree really a Masterpiece?
« Reply #48 on: March 10, 2017, 05:58:09 AM »
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I'm reading through the comments and I see people arguing as if they are bringing concrete evidence to the table or an objective analysis. However, there's not much explanation in the arguments that we can make reason about (music theory, sonics and timbre, performance, emotional delivery, originality, innovation, musical and lyrical concepts etc), only adjectives thrown here and there.

Of course, nobody is obliged to think that TJT is or is not a masterpiece, and that music's technical language is obscure to most, but if we're coming from personal feelings and taste (adjectives), we should be more relative in our opinions and more open to accept that TJT is what people want it to be, a masterpiece or not.

I'm not saying people are being agressive or rude here, because they are not, but there's a lot of groundless intransigence. IT IS A MASTERPIECE!! IT IS NOT A MASTERPIECE!! I'M OBVIOUSLY RIGHT!!

Beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder, isn't it.

Nobody is right, nobody is wrong - just differing opinions.

As Brisco alludes to above it is what here is all about - and why we love the place.

Yes, and I'm a forum addict because I love discussion. I'm just pointing out that, even if beauty is in the eye of the beholder, arguments need to have more base in order to cultivate fruits. Otherwise, it is an angry battle of "yes, because it is" and "no, because it is not". 

Offline an tha

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Re: Is the Joshua Tree really a Masterpiece?
« Reply #49 on: March 10, 2017, 07:07:10 AM »
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I'm reading through the comments and I see people arguing as if they are bringing concrete evidence to the table or an objective analysis. However, there's not much explanation in the arguments that we can make reason about (music theory, sonics and timbre, performance, emotional delivery, originality, innovation, musical and lyrical concepts etc), only adjectives thrown here and there.

Of course, nobody is obliged to think that TJT is or is not a masterpiece, and that music's technical language is obscure to most, but if we're coming from personal feelings and taste (adjectives), we should be more relative in our opinions and more open to accept that TJT is what people want it to be, a masterpiece or not.

I'm not saying people are being agressive or rude here, because they are not, but there's a lot of groundless intransigence. IT IS A MASTERPIECE!! IT IS NOT A MASTERPIECE!! I'M OBVIOUSLY RIGHT!!

Beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder, isn't it.

Nobody is right, nobody is wrong - just differing opinions.

As Brisco alludes to above it is what here is all about - and why we love the place.
Exactly right, an tha...so it's my opinion that you should leave Elevation alone!!!  :P

Ha! ah come on - a man needs some pleasures in life!!

Offline eddyjedi

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Re: Is the Joshua Tree really a Masterpiece?
« Reply #50 on: March 10, 2017, 07:15:35 AM »
It's the album that all future U2 albums are judged against so even for that reason alone it must be special.

Offline an tha

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Re: Is the Joshua Tree really a Masterpiece?
« Reply #51 on: March 10, 2017, 07:16:41 AM »
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I'm reading through the comments and I see people arguing as if they are bringing concrete evidence to the table or an objective analysis. However, there's not much explanation in the arguments that we can make reason about (music theory, sonics and timbre, performance, emotional delivery, originality, innovation, musical and lyrical concepts etc), only adjectives thrown here and there.

Of course, nobody is obliged to think that TJT is or is not a masterpiece, and that music's technical language is obscure to most, but if we're coming from personal feelings and taste (adjectives), we should be more relative in our opinions and more open to accept that TJT is what people want it to be, a masterpiece or not.

I'm not saying people are being agressive or rude here, because they are not, but there's a lot of groundless intransigence. IT IS A MASTERPIECE!! IT IS NOT A MASTERPIECE!! I'M OBVIOUSLY RIGHT!!

Beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder, isn't it.

Nobody is right, nobody is wrong - just differing opinions.

As Brisco alludes to above it is what here is all about - and why we love the place.

Yes, and I'm a forum addict because I love discussion. I'm just pointing out that, even if beauty is in the eye of the beholder, arguments need to have more base in order to cultivate fruits. Otherwise, it is an angry battle of "yes, because it is" and "no, because it is not".

agreed 100%...personally believe that opinions should be backed up with as much detail as possible - it makes for better discourse.

music though can be a difficult one to articulate as for me anyway it is often just instinctive to what is pleasing to the ear.....and of course is highly subjective - if we are discussing the merits of a footballer for example we can use stats like goals scored/assists/tackles won/pass competion etc etc...objective things - when i say i don't like the sonic landscape of ISHFWILF for example it is much more difficult to do....

We try though and largely do ok!

My posts are boring and long and rambling enough as it is...!

Offline xy

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Re: Is the Joshua Tree really a Masterpiece?
« Reply #52 on: March 10, 2017, 07:18:42 AM »
It is a top heavy album, so the article is right in that, yes. The first half is stronger (as could be said for many, many other U2 albums anyway). No mention of One tree hill though...

That said, I always viewed Trip and IGC as something of a breather after the massive first 6 songs and before the dive back into more heavy material with the last three songs. Thematically it is tight and the songs held up over time, so yes, it is a masterpiece.

Offline rlabs19

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Re: Is the Joshua Tree really a Masterpiece?
« Reply #53 on: March 10, 2017, 09:48:17 AM »
I just listened to it all the way through. Yes, it is a masterpiece. Not much else to say.

Offline Droo

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Re: Is the Joshua Tree really a Masterpiece?
« Reply #54 on: March 10, 2017, 12:29:31 PM »
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Have long maintained it is the most overrated album in u2's cannon and one of the most overrated albums of all time by anybody.

I can appreciate that a lot of people disagree with my view on it and I can see the records attraction - but as I say for me it is massively overrated.

I don't personally own a copy of it and I don't consider that fact as meaning I am missing out.

The only song on it I would call a masterpiece is Mothers - yet again u2 at their best for me when being understated....RTSS would be up there as well if the album version was in same vein as the zoo tour version - Exit is OK as well.

Of course on this upcoming tour in enormodomes it will be the obvious hits that receive the most rapturous receptions from Joe Public and songs like those mentioned above will largely receive muted receptions/see exoduses to the bars.



I agree with you, an tha! I don't recall the last time we agreed on something! haha

Besides the Big Singles and maybe Bullet I feel like the general public probably doesn't know the rest of the album despite the praise and hype heaped upon it compared to other U2 records.

I think this tour will be interesting as I anticipate a massive drop in the mood of the crowd after Bullet since I suspect most of them won't have any idea what the next seven songs are.

Offline lucas.homem

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Re: Is the Joshua Tree really a Masterpiece?
« Reply #55 on: March 10, 2017, 12:36:01 PM »
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Have long maintained it is the most overrated album in u2's cannon and one of the most overrated albums of all time by anybody.

I can appreciate that a lot of people disagree with my view on it and I can see the records attraction - but as I say for me it is massively overrated.

I don't personally own a copy of it and I don't consider that fact as meaning I am missing out.

The only song on it I would call a masterpiece is Mothers - yet again u2 at their best for me when being understated....RTSS would be up there as well if the album version was in same vein as the zoo tour version - Exit is OK as well.

Of course on this upcoming tour in enormodomes it will be the obvious hits that receive the most rapturous receptions from Joe Public and songs like those mentioned above will largely receive muted receptions/see exoduses to the bars.



I agree with you, an tha! I don't recall the last time we agreed on something! haha

Besides the Big Singles and maybe Bullet I feel like the general public probably doesn't know the rest of the album despite the praise and hype heaped upon it compared to other U2 records.

I think this tour will be interesting as I anticipate a massive drop in the mood of the crowd after Bullet since I suspect most of them won't have any idea what the next seven songs are.

That's true, but the same could be said of any U2 album, even Achtung Baby (though the hits are better distributed throughout the album in this one).

Offline Droo

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Re: Is the Joshua Tree really a Masterpiece?
« Reply #56 on: March 10, 2017, 12:42:58 PM »
I am pondering the article's comments on the back half of U2 albums being fairly weak compared to the first. What do we think about that here?

With the exception of Achtung Baby, Zooropa,  and Songs of Innocence, I think the author may be on to something.

Offline an tha

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Re: Is the Joshua Tree really a Masterpiece?
« Reply #57 on: March 10, 2017, 12:48:43 PM »
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Have long maintained it is the most overrated album in u2's cannon and one of the most overrated albums of all time by anybody.

I can appreciate that a lot of people disagree with my view on it and I can see the records attraction - but as I say for me it is massively overrated.

I don't personally own a copy of it and I don't consider that fact as meaning I am missing out.

The only song on it I would call a masterpiece is Mothers - yet again u2 at their best for me when being understated....RTSS would be up there as well if the album version was in same vein as the zoo tour version - Exit is OK as well.

Of course on this upcoming tour in enormodomes it will be the obvious hits that receive the most rapturous receptions from Joe Public and songs like those mentioned above will largely receive muted receptions/see exoduses to the bars.



I agree with you, an tha! I don't recall the last time we agreed on something! haha

Besides the Big Singles and maybe Bullet I feel like the general public probably doesn't know the rest of the album despite the praise and hype heaped upon it compared to other U2 records.

I think this tour will be interesting as I anticipate a massive drop in the mood of the crowd after Bullet since I suspect most of them won't have any idea what the next seven songs are.

Careful you'll get a bad rep agreeing with me, sir...

Offline PopMart_1997

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Re: Is the Joshua Tree really a Masterpiece?
« Reply #58 on: March 10, 2017, 02:25:25 PM »
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It's the album that all future U2 albums are judged against so even for that reason alone it must be special.
What would that say about The Unforgettable Fire prior to the release of The Joshua Tree?

Offline eddyjedi

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Re: Is the Joshua Tree really a Masterpiece?
« Reply #59 on: March 10, 2017, 02:35:42 PM »
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It's the album that all future U2 albums are judged against so even for that reason alone it must be special.
What would that say about The Unforgettable Fire prior to the release of The Joshua Tree?

That it shaped them for the breakthrough that was TJT