Author Topic: Is the Joshua Tree really a Masterpiece?  (Read 3247 times)

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Offline WookieeWarrior10

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Re: Is the Joshua Tree really a Masterpiece?
« Reply #75 on: March 12, 2017, 10:21:15 AM »
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I'm not saying people are being agressive or rude here, because they are not, but there's a lot of groundless intransigence...

Did you actually just use the word 'Intransigence ?' That's awesome.

 Intransigence is all aroun
Oh, duh, intransigence! You mean the refusal to change one's views or to agree about something.

I don't use this forum for big words...

Offline lucas.homem

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Re: Is the Joshua Tree really a Masterpiece?
« Reply #76 on: March 12, 2017, 12:00:02 PM »
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I'm not saying people are being agressive or rude here, because they are not, but there's a lot of groundless intransigence...

Did you actually just use the word 'Intransigence ?' That's awesome.

 Intransigence is all aroun

Well, I had to, since I don't know any other word in english close to the meaning of intrasigence (I'm not a native english speaker), so yea...

Offline lucas.homem

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Re: Is the Joshua Tree really a Masterpiece?
« Reply #77 on: March 12, 2017, 12:38:26 PM »
Streets on record is just as good as live, but it is a different animal.

When live, they put the guitar riff loud as f*** and, well, loud is more exciting. Then we have that intense energy from the rhythmic section resonating throughout the crowd with Bono's emotional delivery, so it's a massive social experience. And, of course, there are mini improvements, like Adam's new bass line in the chorus.

On studio, everything is different. The famous guitar riff is NOT the main dish of the intro, but a quiet sparkle added to the the slow melody of the synth we've been hearing since the beginning of the track. This restrainment makes the whole intro have a much deeper sense of "crescendo", instead of just loud, and the first 30 seconds are pure Eno's genius (it's so beautiful!). Then we arrive at the verses, and Edge's work on studio is pretty interesting, with that helicopter sound and lots of guitar layers. Really, the amount of things vibrating and resonating simultaneously is unbelievable (of course, sound is vibration, but I mean in a broader sense of the word).

There is more. The amazing crescendo of the song goes through not only the intro, but to the very ending of the song, because the outro is the biggest sounding part of the track. Oh, and I love the outro of the studio version much more than the bridge they do live. I will never understang why they don't do the outro live. Bono singing "bloooow by the wiiiiind!" gives me shivers down my spine everytime. It goes without saying that all this superlative apotheosis makes the smooth comeback of the guitar riff much more nostalgic and beautiful.

Yes, I love this song.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2017, 12:40:07 PM by lucas.homem »

Offline PopMart_1997

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Re: Is the Joshua Tree really a Masterpiece?
« Reply #78 on: March 12, 2017, 07:28:32 PM »
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Streets on record is just as good as live, but it is a different animal.

When live, they put the guitar riff loud as f*** and, well, loud is more exciting. Then we have that intense energy from the rhythmic section resonating throughout the crowd with Bono's emotional delivery, so it's a massive social experience. And, of course, there are mini improvements, like Adam's new bass line in the chorus.

On studio, everything is different. The famous guitar riff is NOT the main dish of the intro, but a quiet sparkle added to the the slow melody of the synth we've been hearing since the beginning of the track. This restrainment makes the whole intro have a much deeper sense of "crescendo", instead of just loud, and the first 30 seconds are pure Eno's genius (it's so beautiful!). Then we arrive at the verses, and Edge's work on studio is pretty interesting, with that helicopter sound and lots of guitar layers. Really, the amount of things vibrating and resonating simultaneously is unbelievable (of course, sound is vibration, but I mean in a broader sense of the word).

There is more. The amazing crescendo of the song goes through not only the intro, but to the very ending of the song, because the outro is the biggest sounding part of the track. Oh, and I love the outro of the studio version much more than the bridge they do live. I will never understang why they don't do the outro live. Bono singing "bloooow by the wiiiiind!" gives me shivers down my spine everytime. It goes without saying that all this superlative apotheosis makes the smooth comeback of the guitar riff much more nostalgic and beautiful.

Yes, I love this song.
I love the way the band ended it (and the main set) on PopMart!

Offline Hawkmoon2e

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Re: Is the Joshua Tree really a Masterpiece?
« Reply #79 on: March 12, 2017, 09:16:10 PM »
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I'm not saying people are being agressive or rude here, because they are not, but there's a lot of groundless intransigence...

Did you actually just use the word 'Intransigence ?' That's awesome.

 Intransigence is all aroun

Well, I had to, since I don't know any other word in english close to the meaning of intrasigence (I'm not a native english speaker), so yea...

No, lucas.homem, it's all good. That word always just reminds me of Staring At The Sun.

Offline Kmama07

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Re: Is the Joshua Tree really a Masterpiece?
« Reply #80 on: March 14, 2017, 07:34:32 PM »
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I'm reading through the comments and I see people arguing as if they are bringing concrete evidence to the table or an objective analysis. However, there's not much explanation in the arguments that we can make reason about (music theory, sonics and timbre, performance, emotional delivery, originality, innovation, musical and lyrical concepts etc), only adjectives thrown here and there.

Of course, nobody is obliged to think that TJT is or is not a masterpiece, and that music's technical language is obscure to most, but if we're coming from personal feelings and taste (adjectives), we should be more relative in our opinions and more open to accept that TJT is what people want it to be, a masterpiece or not.

I'm not saying people are being agressive or rude here, because they are not, but there's a lot of groundless intransigence. IT IS A MASTERPIECE!! IT IS NOT A MASTERPIECE!! I'M OBVIOUSLY RIGHT!!

Beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder, isn't it.

Nobody is right, nobody is wrong - just differing opinions.

As Brisco alludes to above it is what here is all about - and why we love the place.

Yes, and I'm a forum addict because I love discussion. I'm just pointing out that, even if beauty is in the eye of the beholder, arguments need to have more base in order to cultivate fruits. Otherwise, it is an angry battle of "yes, because it is" and "no, because it is not".

agreed 100%...personally believe that opinions should be backed up with as much detail as possible - it makes for better discourse.

music though can be a difficult one to articulate as for me anyway it is often just instinctive to what is pleasing to the ear.....and of course is highly subjective - if we are discussing the merits of a footballer for example we can use stats like goals scored/assists/tackles won/pass competion etc etc...objective things - when i say i don't like the sonic landscape of ISHFWILF for example it is much more difficult to do....

We try though and largely do ok!

My posts are boring and long and rambling enough as it is...!
Yes, but your posts include words like "enormodomes"!  Well worth the ramble to me!

Online an tha

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Re: Is the Joshua Tree really a Masterpiece?
« Reply #81 on: March 15, 2017, 02:21:01 AM »
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I'm reading through the comments and I see people arguing as if they are bringing concrete evidence to the table or an objective analysis. However, there's not much explanation in the arguments that we can make reason about (music theory, sonics and timbre, performance, emotional delivery, originality, innovation, musical and lyrical concepts etc), only adjectives thrown here and there.

Of course, nobody is obliged to think that TJT is or is not a masterpiece, and that music's technical language is obscure to most, but if we're coming from personal feelings and taste (adjectives), we should be more relative in our opinions and more open to accept that TJT is what people want it to be, a masterpiece or not.

I'm not saying people are being agressive or rude here, because they are not, but there's a lot of groundless intransigence. IT IS A MASTERPIECE!! IT IS NOT A MASTERPIECE!! I'M OBVIOUSLY RIGHT!!

Beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder, isn't it.

Nobody is right, nobody is wrong - just differing opinions.

As Brisco alludes to above it is what here is all about - and why we love the place.

Yes, and I'm a forum addict because I love discussion. I'm just pointing out that, even if beauty is in the eye of the beholder, arguments need to have more base in order to cultivate fruits. Otherwise, it is an angry battle of "yes, because it is" and "no, because it is not".

agreed 100%...personally believe that opinions should be backed up with as much detail as possible - it makes for better discourse.

music though can be a difficult one to articulate as for me anyway it is often just instinctive to what is pleasing to the ear.....and of course is highly subjective - if we are discussing the merits of a footballer for example we can use stats like goals scored/assists/tackles won/pass competion etc etc...objective things - when i say i don't like the sonic landscape of ISHFWILF for example it is much more difficult to do....

We try though and largely do ok!

My posts are boring and long and rambling enough as it is...!
Yes, but your posts include words like "enormodomes"!  Well worth the ramble to me!

One of many Spinal Tap moments!

Offline Clarky

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Re: Is the Joshua Tree really a Masterpiece?
« Reply #82 on: March 16, 2017, 01:18:17 AM »
Alright, I've got to make a confession and I wonder if I'm alone in this or not...

While I do generally consider my affection and underlying appreciation for TJT to be of a richer and more fulfilling quality, I do in some way find myself just a little more excited to listen to AB if given the choice.

I don't know what to say. I believe that if I had to choose one album to live with for the rest of my life if would be TJT, but the allure of that slightly twisted, sonically vibrant, subversive, turned in on itself, experimental and distorted album makes the choice between the two very difficult at times. Sometimes I feel like the decision to say JT is out of some kind of self-imposed obligation (not really, but there's just a hint of that sometimes).

I know, I know....why not have both. But it's fun to play the game.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2017, 07:41:01 AM by Clarky »

Offline riffraff

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Re: Is the Joshua Tree really a Masterpiece?
« Reply #83 on: March 16, 2017, 05:00:45 AM »
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Alright, I've got to make a concession and I wonder if I'm alone in this or not...

While I do generally consider my affection and underlying appreciation for TJT to be of a richer and more fulfilling quality, I do in some way find myself just a little more excited to listen to AB if given the choice.

I don't know what to say. I believe that if I had to choose one album to live with for the rest of my life if would be TJT, but the allure of that slightly twisted, sonically vibrant, subversive, turned in on itself, experimental and distorted album makes the choice between the two very difficult at times. Sometimes I feel like the decision to say JT is out of some kind of self-imposed obligation (not really, but there's just a hint of that sometimes).

I know, I know....why not have both. But it's fun to play the game.
Wow...to have to make a choice...I play AB more, because I work out to it a lot. But, I love TJT so much...I don't think I could choose between the two if I could only keep one of them!
I think, I THINK I'd keep OH NO I CAN'T DO THIS! I REFUSE TO CHOOSE!  :-[

Offline Kmama07

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Re: Is the Joshua Tree really a Masterpiece?
« Reply #84 on: March 16, 2017, 05:20:36 AM »
Achtung Baby

Offline Clarky

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Re: Is the Joshua Tree really a Masterpiece?
« Reply #85 on: March 16, 2017, 07:45:45 AM »
A small part of me wonders if Joshua Tree was recorded using more modern equipment so the sounds were crisper and louder whether that would make a difference. Part of the issue with JT is that it sounds a little muffled and at the mercy of older recording devices. Streets for example could have an even more epic intro if it weren't quite so faint and obscured (that's part of its charm, sure....but using it's live setting proves that it still works, it not more so, when it's completely audible and more distinct)

Offline WookieeWarrior10

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Re: Is the Joshua Tree really a Masterpiece?
« Reply #86 on: March 16, 2017, 08:41:54 AM »
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A small part of me wonders if Joshua Tree was recorded using more modern equipment so the sounds were crisper and louder whether that would make a difference. Part of the issue with JT is that it sounds a little muffled and at the mercy of older recording devices. Streets for example could have an even more epic intro if it weren't quite so faint and obscured (that's part of its charm, sure....but using it's live setting proves that it still works, it not more so, when it's completely audible and more distinct)
That's these new remixes come into play. Excited to hear some of these.

Offline Blueyedboy

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Re: Is the Joshua Tree really a Masterpiece?
« Reply #87 on: March 17, 2017, 01:49:20 AM »
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A small part of me wonders if Joshua Tree was recorded using more modern equipment so the sounds were crisper and louder whether that would make a difference. Part of the issue with JT is that it sounds a little muffled and at the mercy of older recording devices. Streets for example could have an even more epic intro if it weren't quite so faint and obscured (that's part of its charm, sure....but using it's live setting proves that it still works, it not more so, when it's completely audible and more distinct)
That's these new remixes come into play. Excited to hear some of these.

I wouldn't hold your breath, they had the technology to sort it out on the 20 yr remixes but choice not too. Exit was still as frustratingly up and down as it has always been