Author Topic: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees  (Read 38798 times)

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Offline Johnny Feathers

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Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
« Reply #105 on: April 20, 2017, 02:08:45 PM »
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u2 aren't daft they know exactly who Lamar is and how big he is....they knew that working with him would attract a lot of 'column inches' and a lot of social media comments.

Whether they were invited or whether they were asked makes no difference - they knew that this would catapult them right into the middle of the public eye and get tongues wagging - so they were always going to say yes to any invitation weren't they....must have thought 'that is dead handy'....

I suppose there is nothing 'wrong' with that as such, they are of course free to do what they want - but not everybody has to like the approach and it of course makes for an interesting conversation piece.

Considering how far left-field KL is from where U2 are--particularly currently--I think it has to be an honor for them.  And you realize they are probably being asked to be included on dozens of other projects every day.  I think they do a good job of limiting those projects to ones they probably want to do based on artistic reasons.  The only tongues I've heard wagging are ones wondering why KL invited them of all people, or commenting that U2 somehow didn't ruin the track.

It has garnered them masses of coverage/talk....mission accomplished

U2 playing with ANYONE would get them coverage.  They could have played with Taylor Swift or Coldplay, or Mumford & Sons.  Maybe playing with KL gets them exposure to a different demographic, but that's about it.  Who could they have played with that wouldn't be greeted with accusations of selling out by the fans?

Offline an tha

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Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
« Reply #106 on: April 20, 2017, 02:16:29 PM »
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u2 aren't daft they know exactly who Lamar is and how big he is....they knew that working with him would attract a lot of 'column inches' and a lot of social media comments.

Whether they were invited or whether they were asked makes no difference - they knew that this would catapult them right into the middle of the public eye and get tongues wagging - so they were always going to say yes to any invitation weren't they....must have thought 'that is dead handy'....

I suppose there is nothing 'wrong' with that as such, they are of course free to do what they want - but not everybody has to like the approach and it of course makes for an interesting conversation piece.

Considering how far left-field KL is from where U2 are--particularly currently--I think it has to be an honor for them.  And you realize they are probably being asked to be included on dozens of other projects every day.  I think they do a good job of limiting those projects to ones they probably want to do based on artistic reasons.  The only tongues I've heard wagging are ones wondering why KL invited them of all people, or commenting that U2 somehow didn't ruin the track.

It has garnered them masses of coverage/talk....mission accomplished

U2 playing with ANYONE would get them coverage.  They could have played with Taylor Swift or Coldplay, or Mumford & Sons.  Maybe playing with KL gets them exposure to a different demographic, but that's about it.  Who could they have played with that wouldn't be greeted with accusations of selling out by the fans?

I am not necessarily saying they have sold out...i am just saying that their decision to go with Lamar would be one made with the mindset of this is pretty much the jackpot - gets us coverage across the media in a big way and the cool media at that as well as 'the kids'....

Offline Blueyedboy

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Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
« Reply #107 on: April 20, 2017, 02:17:56 PM »
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u2 aren't daft they know exactly who Lamar is and how big he is....they knew that working with him would attract a lot of 'column inches' and a lot of social media comments.

Whether they were invited or whether they were asked makes no difference - they knew that this would catapult them right into the middle of the public eye and get tongues wagging - so they were always going to say yes to any invitation weren't they....must have thought 'that is dead handy'....

I suppose there is nothing 'wrong' with that as such, they are of course free to do what they want - but not everybody has to like the approach and it of course makes for an interesting conversation piece.

Considering how far left-field KL is from where U2 are--particularly currently--I think it has to be an honor for them.  And you realize they are probably being asked to be included on dozens of other projects every day.  I think they do a good job of limiting those projects to ones they probably want to do based on artistic reasons.  The only tongues I've heard wagging are ones wondering why KL invited them of all people, or commenting that U2 somehow didn't ruin the track.

It has garnered them masses of coverage/talk....mission accomplished

U2 playing with ANYONE would get them coverage.  They could have played with Taylor Swift or Coldplay, or Mumford & Sons.  Maybe playing with KL gets them exposure to a different demographic, but that's about it.  Who could they have played with that wouldn't be greeted with accusations of selling out by the fans?

I think the KL collaboration is as smooth a ride as it gets I'm afraid. You're right though, it would have been easier to collaborate with those other artists you mentioned, and the output would have sold some serious units regardless of the quality, kudos for the band in not taking the easy option.

Offline Ultrafly

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Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
« Reply #108 on: April 20, 2017, 02:19:54 PM »
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But that means.....what?  That you're opposed to picture discs of songs that you can easily obtain without having to buy them?  I mean, there's a LOT of marketing decisions that go along with being one of the biggest bands in the world.  So we're objecting to that now?

Nah, I'm saying that :

1) McG said the band never changed any part of any song because they felt they could get more sales if they did it differently but
2) The band were totally OK with gimmicky formats like 2 x 7", picture discs etc as it was packaging around the song, not the song itself.

Can't remember where I read that 30 years ago though!

Offline Blueyedboy

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Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
« Reply #109 on: April 20, 2017, 02:26:13 PM »
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u2 aren't daft they know exactly who Lamar is and how big he is....they knew that working with him would attract a lot of 'column inches' and a lot of social media comments.

Whether they were invited or whether they were asked makes no difference - they knew that this would catapult them right into the middle of the public eye and get tongues wagging - so they were always going to say yes to any invitation weren't they....must have thought 'that is dead handy'....

I suppose there is nothing 'wrong' with that as such, they are of course free to do what they want - but not everybody has to like the approach and it of course makes for an interesting conversation piece.

Considering how far left-field KL is from where U2 are--particularly currently--I think it has to be an honor for them.  And you realize they are probably being asked to be included on dozens of other projects every day.  I think they do a good job of limiting those projects to ones they probably want to do based on artistic reasons.  The only tongues I've heard wagging are ones wondering why KL invited them of all people, or commenting that U2 somehow didn't ruin the track.

It has garnered them masses of coverage/talk....mission accomplished

U2 playing with ANYONE would get them coverage.  They could have played with Taylor Swift or Coldplay, or Mumford & Sons.  Maybe playing with KL gets them exposure to a different demographic, but that's about it.  Who could they have played with that wouldn't be greeted with accusations of selling out by the fans?

I am not necessarily saying they have sold out...i am just saying that their decision to go with Lamar would be one made with the mindset of this is pretty much the jackpot - gets us coverage across the media in a big way and the cool media at that as well as 'the kids'....

I certainly gained some exposure within the U2 and KL/Rap community, but has it made that much of an impact that the wider audience even knows that this has happened?

Offline Johnny Feathers

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Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
« Reply #110 on: April 20, 2017, 02:31:17 PM »
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u2 aren't daft they know exactly who Lamar is and how big he is....they knew that working with him would attract a lot of 'column inches' and a lot of social media comments.

Whether they were invited or whether they were asked makes no difference - they knew that this would catapult them right into the middle of the public eye and get tongues wagging - so they were always going to say yes to any invitation weren't they....must have thought 'that is dead handy'....

I suppose there is nothing 'wrong' with that as such, they are of course free to do what they want - but not everybody has to like the approach and it of course makes for an interesting conversation piece.

Considering how far left-field KL is from where U2 are--particularly currently--I think it has to be an honor for them.  And you realize they are probably being asked to be included on dozens of other projects every day.  I think they do a good job of limiting those projects to ones they probably want to do based on artistic reasons.  The only tongues I've heard wagging are ones wondering why KL invited them of all people, or commenting that U2 somehow didn't ruin the track.

It has garnered them masses of coverage/talk....mission accomplished

U2 playing with ANYONE would get them coverage.  They could have played with Taylor Swift or Coldplay, or Mumford & Sons.  Maybe playing with KL gets them exposure to a different demographic, but that's about it.  Who could they have played with that wouldn't be greeted with accusations of selling out by the fans?

I think the KL collaboration is as smooth a ride as it gets I'm afraid. You're right though, it would have been easier to collaborate with those other artists you mentioned, and the output would have sold some serious units regardless of the quality, kudos for the band in not taking the easy option.

That's my take, anyway.  And as popular as KL may be, he's well outside my particular sphere, other than a vague familiarity with the name.  Granted, I'm pasty white, not a rap fan, and old.  So when I hear U2 participated in a critically-acclaimed album with an artist as different as KL, all I can say is "good for them".

Offline The Exile

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Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
« Reply #111 on: April 21, 2017, 12:33:33 PM »
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McG said the band never changed any part of any song because they felt they could get more sales....

Well even if this were true on the band's part (which it's most likely not), what does it matter when the band will change an entire album in order to get for sales for it?

Like I've been saying, I am not sure how aware U2 is when it comes to this line between art and commerce.

"For love or money?" It's still a pretty good question after all this time.

Offline Blueyedboy

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Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
« Reply #112 on: April 21, 2017, 01:11:50 PM »
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McG said the band never changed any part of any song because they felt they could get more sales....

Well even if this were true on the band's part (which it's most likely not), what does it matter when the band will change an entire album in order to get for sales for it?

Like I've been saying, I am not sure how aware U2 is when it comes to this line between art and commerce.

"For love or money?" It's still a pretty good question after all this time.

The fact that SOA didn't happen answers that particular question.

Offline lucas.homem

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Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
« Reply #113 on: April 21, 2017, 03:53:10 PM »
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u2 aren't daft they know exactly who Lamar is and how big he is....they knew that working with him would attract a lot of 'column inches' and a lot of social media comments.

Whether they were invited or whether they were asked makes no difference - they knew that this would catapult them right into the middle of the public eye and get tongues wagging - so they were always going to say yes to any invitation weren't they....must have thought 'that is dead handy'....

I suppose there is nothing 'wrong' with that as such, they are of course free to do what they want - but not everybody has to like the approach and it of course makes for an interesting conversation piece.

Of course they knew this could be good marketing, but what people tend to purposefully ignore is that, maybe, they also liked to do this collaboration just for the sake of it.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 03:55:33 PM by lucas.homem »

Offline Kmama07

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Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
« Reply #114 on: April 21, 2017, 09:34:32 PM »
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McG said the band never changed any part of any song because they felt they could get more sales....

Well even if this were true on the band's part (which it's most likely not), what does it matter when the band will change an entire album in order to get for sales for it?

Like I've been saying, I am not sure how aware U2 is when it comes to this line between art and commerce.

"For love or money?" It's still a pretty good question after all this time.

I remember reading an article a long time ago that I'm fairly certain was about U2 or included Bono that discussed the role of data analytics or something computer-related about measurements of song popularity or something to that effect... 

Maybe it was related to Guy O'Seary?  Anyway, what made an impression on me was that it sounded like some bands these days examine such data as part of the music making process, or at least the business of music making part of the process, and that such information plays as much of a role in decision-making as what the bassist thinks, what the drummer thinks, etc. ...and that maybe it's possible to "design" and "program" a hit...

Check out the PBS documentary Generation Like for a behind the scenes look at how the entertainment industry uses social media.  They are able to record and analyze every like, click, share, etc. and apply that information to their campaigns.  It's quite eye opening, or at least it was for me. 

I could see a band like U2, who always want to be on the cutting edge of things, embracing or at least exploring analytics and all the tools of the digital age, including analytics related to sales and what sells, etc. 

But regardless of where they're at now, I think U2 has ALWAYS been about love AND money.  They wanted to be the biggest band in the world right from the start and I don't think they ever thought that money was not an important part of that equation.

I recently thought about where I'm at in my career and pay scale and how most of us will never achieve the level of fame and income as someone like U2, which led me to wonder why we spend so much time worshipping people who have so much...funded by us.  What triggered these thoughts?  Opening to a random page in Brian Eno's diary and reading his description of a night out with Bono at a casino in Monaco around the time Passengers was being made.

Eno simultaneously commented critically about the shallowness of the scene and everyone there while describing the thousands of dollars he and Bono gambled. I'm making more money than I did when Passengers came out and working a job I love doing, but the thought of throwing away a hundred bucks at a casino, for me, would have to be weighed heavily against paying bills.

These guys exist...and have existed for a long time...in a reality alien to the one most of us live our lives in...  If I knew that something I decided to do or not do might benefit me to the tune of X millions of dollars, I'd probably be pretty calculating too.  If only.
Interesting and valid points.

Offline Ultrafly

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Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
« Reply #115 on: April 22, 2017, 02:04:27 AM »
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McG said the band never changed any part of any song because they felt they could get more sales....

Well even if this were true on the band's part (which it's most likely not), what does it matter when the band will change an entire album in order to get for sales for it?

Like I've been saying, I am not sure how aware U2 is when it comes to this line between art and commerce.

"For love or money?" It's still a pretty good question after all this time.

I remember reading an article a long time ago that I'm fairly certain was about U2 or included Bono that discussed the role of data analytics or something computer-related about measurements of song popularity or something to that effect... 

Maybe it was related to Guy O'Seary?  Anyway, what made an impression on me was that it sounded like some bands these days examine such data as part of the music making process, or at least the business of music making part of the process, and that such information plays as much of a role in decision-making as what the bassist thinks, what the drummer thinks, etc. ...and that maybe it's possible to "design" and "program" a hit...

Check out the PBS documentary Generation Like for a behind the scenes look at how the entertainment industry uses social media.  They are able to record and analyze every like, click, share, etc. and apply that information to their campaigns.  It's quite eye opening, or at least it was for me. 

I could see a band like U2, who always want to be on the cutting edge of things, embracing or at least exploring analytics and all the tools of the digital age, including analytics related to sales and what sells, etc. 

But regardless of where they're at now, I think U2 has ALWAYS been about love AND money.  They wanted to be the biggest band in the world right from the start and I don't think they ever thought that money was not an important part of that equation.

I recently thought about where I'm at in my career and pay scale and how most of us will never achieve the level of fame and income as someone like U2, which led me to wonder why we spend so much time worshipping people who have so much...funded by us.  What triggered these thoughts?  Opening to a random page in Brian Eno's diary and reading his description of a night out with Bono at a casino in Monaco around the time Passengers was being made.

Eno simultaneously commented critically about the shallowness of the scene and everyone there while describing the thousands of dollars he and Bono gambled. I'm making more money than I did when Passengers came out and working a job I love doing, but the thought of throwing away a hundred bucks at a casino, for me, would have to be weighed heavily against paying bills.

These guys exist...and have existed for a long time...in a reality alien to the one most of us live our lives in...  If I knew that something I decided to do or not do might benefit me to the tune of X millions of dollars, I'd probably be pretty calculating too.  If only.
Interesting and valid points.

Certainly U2 are businessmen, and have always been aware of the position of their work, the market tolerances, and money. (U2 Show has a fascinating interview about ticket pricing where the band calculate the number of sales vs. price points & scale accordingly to maximise both number of people in the room, amount of revenue and cost of the show).

For one perspective, Eno, Bono, etc are absolutely incredibly rich. Bono's wealth was calculated at 2001 at something like $710m and that was before his companies had shares in Facebook and before U23D got the patent for 3D Movie Cameras, etc. Spending thousands in Monaco to them is probably like us buying a can of sofa : they won't "feel" it. They are financially secure and have been ever since they decided to get paid by shares in Island instead of demand royalties when Island was short of cash in the mid/late 80's. Of course, they then sold Island on the back of U2's enormous success, so effectively floated their own band on the stock exchange.

U2 are so well off, they haven't had to work since around 1989, all the bills are paid and will always be paid unless they get Michael Jackson style spending habits, and to an extent, they are now, as a reviewer of "Pop" once said, "Living in a Post-sex world" : what happens when you don't have to worry about money, sex, love, because you are successful and secure and all those things are taken care of? U2 are at the top of "Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs" and need never consider those things again - which may be why they are so obsessed with relevance and influence.


Offline riffraff

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Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
« Reply #116 on: April 22, 2017, 08:34:27 AM »
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"...what happens when you don't have to worry about money, sex, love, because you are successful and secure and all those things are taken care of?"

I don't know.  :(
I doubt that ANYONE really knows...

Offline Kurukira

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Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
« Reply #117 on: April 23, 2017, 05:15:20 PM »
I guess you'll have to count me as one of those who prefer to stay in 1997.

Offline The Exile

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Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
« Reply #118 on: April 23, 2017, 06:39:11 PM »
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I guess you'll have to count me as one of those who prefer to stay in 1997.

Back in '82 I could throw a pigskin a quarter mile....

Offline KaLaM

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Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
« Reply #119 on: April 24, 2017, 11:06:59 AM »
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I guess you'll have to count me as one of those who prefer to stay in 1997.

Back in '82 I could throw a pigskin a quarter mile....

Are you serious?