Author Topic: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees  (Read 12607 times)

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Offline lucas.homem

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Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
« Reply #45 on: April 14, 2017, 03:21:35 PM »
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It's beneath them, and they should know it and act like it. They should be way more elitist.

Why do you think you are elit?

Offline Midnight is Where the Day Begins

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Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
« Reply #46 on: April 14, 2017, 04:11:45 PM »
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Recent developments such as the Kendrick Lamar collab and the JT30 Tour have made me realize how diametrically opposed U2's entire approach is to what I wish it were.

At this stage in the band's career -- with millions of albums sold and a live track record that is second to none -- U2 should not be scouring the music world searching for the hippest acts they can find in order to ingratiate themselves with kids who weren't even born when Beautiful Day came out.

It's beneath them, and they should know it and act like it. They should be way more elitist.

The coolest thing for U2 to do (or, to have been doing) is to continue making daring, artistically challenging music for their fans and touring that music in theaters and other smaller venues. They started out as an underground, hard-to-pigeonhole type of band -- kind of like a secret known to this tribe of die-hard followers. They've had unparalleled success since then, and they should do the respectable thing and naturally recede back into something more subtle and underground.

If they did, people would respect and admire them even if they're not into their music. But in a few days what will happen is a bunch of kids who like rap will be moaning about how these old guys are ruining a song by one of the best rappers out there.

I know, I know: It's too late, and U2 is what it is. But it just depresses me to see them tarnish their legacy by all this hat-in-hand pandering.

</rant>

You and me both would love if U2 just went and made music that wasn't for the masses, and that wasn't any sort of reach for relevancy. I would adore if they just put out a record because they truly think that the songs and the music are good enough to stand on it's own to anything they've done. I would love if they went and experimented more with things that were outside their comfort zones, leaving behind the 2000s U2 formula and going to find something where they don't know what it is.

They've tried in the last few years to not stay 100% safe. Songs of Innocence was probably the most interesting record they've done since Pop, going deep into their personal lives, and bringing Danger Mouse on for tracks like Troubles, Raised by Wolves, and Sleep Like a Baby Tonight. Even the Kendrick Lamar appearance, I see it as being different than most. They went and made a song with a man who isn't a huge radio friendly act (He's doesn't make hip-hop for radio really, rather a lot of it is more complex and intricate), but instead a critically acclaimed one. And of all genres, they got a taste of hip hop, and it was pretty damn good in my opinion. It reminded me quite a bit like something from Pop, a Miami or a Playboy Mansion.

But yeah, the idea of bringing Ryan Tedder and others on board, the whole Apple fiasco, and now the 30th Anniversary Tour for the Joshua Tree (which still seems odd for them and how U2 originally was with that sort of thing), makes them still seem like they are pandering hard for the radio and for the older fans who love them for their so called "golden years" of Joshua Tree and its subsequent tour.

It's not the worst case scenario, far from it really, but it does seem like we'll never really see them go out and release whatever they feel like expetrimenting with. Who knows really what those sessions from Fez really ended up being? Or, how the first half of SOI would sound without Epworth and Tedder?

I still think they can do it one day, it's easier for me to wait on them because I listen to so much more music than U2 now. But I feel like the longer they go without that record I know they can do, the less of a chance of it ever happening again.

Offline Rising Sun

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Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
« Reply #47 on: April 15, 2017, 12:17:48 AM »
Exile,

I've read your posts on here for years and pretty much almost always agree with what you write and have been a fan of the band since 1980, so I remember when they were a secret shared only with other die-hard followers.

This is the first post of yours that feels off base to me...  U2 has such a long history of collaboration with other artists that it's hard to think of this one with Kendrick Lamar as pandering.

I remember when it felt like a victory for the band when they or Bono appeared on other artists' albums (Clannad, Robbie Robertson, T-Bone Burnett).  The list of collaborations with other artists is too long to type out, but now that they are on the verge of being elders of rock, aren't they paying forward the same types of nods that Dylan and B.B. King and Sinatra gave them when they were younger?

At what point did their history of collaborations turn into pandering?  It seems like something they enjoy doing, though I'd agree that some leave much to be desired.





 
 

Offline Ultrafly

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Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
« Reply #48 on: April 15, 2017, 04:12:56 AM »
There was a time when U2 set the agenda. Now they are chasing it - and missing.

There was a time when they had their heroes of the past working with them. Now they are working for incompatible talents.

I don't know KL. But this sounds like someone tried to force an unused U2 track into something else. It simply isn't very good.

U2 need to stop chasing relevance. They are old, they are never going to reinvent the world again, they've had a staggeringly successful career (with two 'Indian Summers' in 1991, 2000 when their then contemporaries fell away). Every band goes through peaks/troughs, and U2 have had their commercial drubbings (1996-98, 2009-now) : no band gets to be relevant and top the charts and set the agenda forever in a state of permanent glory.

They need to stop trying to be on trend. Just be the best U2 you can be. Don't dilute yourself with other elements. The chemistry is perfect as it is. Grow older with dignity, not chasing younger musical supermodels. Don't end up the Jack Nicholson of rock, still pretending a 60 year old bloke can be the lead in an action movie. That's not what U2 are anymore.


Offline The Edges Cat

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Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
« Reply #49 on: April 15, 2017, 05:32:17 AM »
Lamar asked U2 to collab with him. He asked them.

The Chainsmokers sampled one sentence from a phone conversation with Bono.

So U2's supposed to say no to Lamar and anyone else wanting to work with them for fear @U2 forum members will accuse them of pandering for relevance? The only pandering being done around here is at the panda exhibit at the zoo. Were you on the bandwagon with the other critics during Rattle & Hum accusing the band of pandering to BB King and Bob Dylan chasing relevance?
« Last Edit: April 15, 2017, 09:42:41 AM by Belisama »

Offline Ultrafly

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Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
« Reply #50 on: April 15, 2017, 06:11:56 AM »
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Lamar asked U2 to collab with him. He asked them.

The Chainsmokers sampled one sentence from a phone conversation with Bono.

So U2's supposed to say no to Lamar and anyone else wanting to work with them for fear @U2 forum members will accuse them of pandering for relevance? The only pandering being done around here is at the panda exhibit at the zoo. Were you on the bandwagon with the other critics during Rattle & Hum accusing the band of pandering to BB King and Bob Dylan chasing relevance?

There's a whole other conversation about R+H, but in those records, BB + BD + JCash don't overpower the songs, but work well with them. This one feels like someones been forced at gunpoint to drop a U2 song into something else.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2017, 09:43:03 AM by Belisama »

Offline Belisama

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Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
« Reply #51 on: April 15, 2017, 09:34:48 AM »
A reminder to all,  discussing and debating U2 issues here is perfectly acceptable and highly encouraged, as long as it is done in a manner that is respectful.   U2 and the word "relevant"  is a topic that stirs passion in the hearts and minds of most fans.  Just don't let that passion cloud your judgement and be reflected in your posts.   Carry on.

Offline The Exile

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Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
« Reply #52 on: April 15, 2017, 12:07:40 PM »
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Exile,

I've read your posts on here for years and pretty much almost always agree with what you write and have been a fan of the band since 1980, so I remember when they were a secret shared only with other die-hard followers.

This is the first post of yours that feels off base to me...  U2 has such a long history of collaboration with other artists that it's hard to think of this one with Kendrick Lamar as pandering.

I remember when it felt like a victory for the band when they or Bono appeared on other artists' albums (Clannad, Robbie Robertson, T-Bone Burnett).  The list of collaborations with other artists is too long to type out, but now that they are on the verge of being elders of rock, aren't they paying forward the same types of nods that Dylan and B.B. King and Sinatra gave them when they were younger?

At what point did their history of collaborations turn into pandering?  It seems like something they enjoy doing, though I'd agree that some leave much to be desired.


Well I suppose one way to look at it is that U2, as the elder statesmen of music, are throwing KL a bone by agreeing to appear on his album and thereby help his career. But the cynic in me sees it differently.

Offline THRILLHO

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Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
« Reply #53 on: April 15, 2017, 12:12:37 PM »
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Exile,

I've read your posts on here for years and pretty much almost always agree with what you write and have been a fan of the band since 1980, so I remember when they were a secret shared only with other die-hard followers.

This is the first post of yours that feels off base to me...  U2 has such a long history of collaboration with other artists that it's hard to think of this one with Kendrick Lamar as pandering.

I remember when it felt like a victory for the band when they or Bono appeared on other artists' albums (Clannad, Robbie Robertson, T-Bone Burnett).  The list of collaborations with other artists is too long to type out, but now that they are on the verge of being elders of rock, aren't they paying forward the same types of nods that Dylan and B.B. King and Sinatra gave them when they were younger?

At what point did their history of collaborations turn into pandering?  It seems like something they enjoy doing, though I'd agree that some leave much to be desired.


Well I suppose one way to look at it is that U2, as the elder statesmen of music, are throwing KL a bone by agreeing to appear on his album and thereby help his career. But the cynic in me sees it differently.

i get your cynicism and like you i was surprised by the end result. i assumed it would be like the Wyclef Single or Whats Going On? i mark this as a win. especially considering its <as of now> just a deep cut and not the lead single etc.

Offline dwaltman

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Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
« Reply #54 on: April 16, 2017, 07:00:24 AM »
The original post seems to believe the motivation for being on DAMN was to reach a youthful audience. Truth is we know nothing about how it came about or the motivation in doing so.

I'm pretty tired of all the "U2 should do this or that" discussions.  I should do a lot of things too...but I don't. They are what they are, take it or leave it.


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Offline Rising Sun

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Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
« Reply #55 on: April 16, 2017, 10:23:02 AM »
Cynicism is understood, as I would also love a revisit of the experimental side of U2 a la Passengers and Million Dollar Hotel, but artists mix it up with other artists and U2 has a long history of doing just that. 

Taking into consideration their history, is it only pandering because they are in the later years of their career?  Were all the older artists U2 worked with pandering by appearing with U2?  Just seems like there's a natural symbiosis in the art and music worlds that benefits everyone involved.

And hypothetically, what if the Lamar track had been presented as new Passengers material?   

Some artists Bono, Edge, Adam, Larry and/or U2 have collaborated with (partial list):

Frank Sinatra, Alicia Keys, Gavin Friday, Clannad, Tina Turner, Keith Richards & Ron Wood, The Corrs, Jay-Z & Rhianna, Jools Holland, Sinead O'Connor, Wyclef Jean, Zucchero Fornaciari, Michael Hutchence, Herbert Gronemeyer, Tony Bennett, Quincy Jones, Roy Orbison, Johnny Cash, Andrea Bocelli, Mick Jagger, B.B. King, Bob Dylan, Luciano Pavarotti, Lykke Li, T-Bone Burnett, Green Day, Daniel Lanois, The Call, Ecco Homo, Neville Brothers, Carl Perkins, Marianne Faithfull, Lone Justice, Dave Stewart, Mocean Worker, Tom Jones, Johnny Hallyday, Robbie Robertson, Jah Wobble, Nancy Sinatra, Common Ground, Brian Eno, Holi, Howie B., The Million Dollar Hotel Band...

Offline The Exile

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Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
« Reply #56 on: April 16, 2017, 11:10:35 AM »
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I'm pretty tired of all the "U2 should do this or that" discussions.  I should do a lot of things too...but I don't. They are what they are, take it or leave it.

So we should all just sit back and, in a Zen-like state, just accept whatever happens without resisting, offering differing opinions, or wrestling through U2's decisions together?

Nah, sounds way too boring. The "U2 should do this or that" discussions are one of the reasons forums like this exist. I don't want to see this place domesticated or made too safe. I like being challenged.

Offline aviastar

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U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
« Reply #57 on: April 16, 2017, 11:13:23 AM »
I don't see the huge deal...yeah, it plays a little like trying too hard to be relevant, but at the end of the day they are a rock band.  It's not the worst thing in the world for them to try and stay current.  U2 has collaborated with lots of artists throughout the years....not sure why collaborating with current ones draw more scorn than artists 20 years ago...is it just an age thing?



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Offline aviastar

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Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
« Reply #58 on: April 16, 2017, 11:35:11 AM »
I just listened to the KL track....first, I don't really listen to any hip hop so I am not current in any trends in that genre.  Second, I had never heard of KL before the U2 collaboration...so it's a first time for me.  Third...I enjoy the U2 portion.  I think it's a decent and respectable collaboration.  I probably wouldn't go buy the album, but I think it reflects well on U2...and is far from cringe-worthy or pathetic.


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Offline WookieeWarrior10

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Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
« Reply #59 on: April 16, 2017, 12:01:27 PM »
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I just listened to the KL track....first, I don't really listen to any hip hop so I am not current in any trends in that genre.  Second, I had never heard of KL before the U2 collaboration...so it's a first time for me.  Third...I enjoy the U2 portion.  I think it's a decent and respectable collaboration.  I probably wouldn't go buy the album, but I think it reflects well on U2...and is far from cringe-worthy or pathetic.


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Right. This collaboration was handled very well and didn't feel forced at all. Smooth transition to the band's outro with well-written lyrics from Bono (assuming Kendrick's final rap part was written by Bono, because it does seem very Bono-esque as others have stated).