Author Topic: People on this forum have overblown POP  (Read 4142 times)

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Offline Allhorizonbomb

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People on this forum have overblown POP
« on: July 18, 2017, 10:42:47 AM »
In reading speculation for what SOE may look like on this forum, all I've ever heard is disgusting negativity towards any new material. I get it, everyone hates songs made to be hits and they want more expiementation like U2 did with Pop, but not like they did with No Line on the Horizon becuase they expierementaion on No Line "sucked" as it wasn't enough. While there is a very good point to be made there let's not forget what Pop was, a blatant attempt to fit into modern music trends while they tried to bash other modern cultural trends like thy did on ZooTv. The only reason Pop was expieremental was because it was different from U2s previous sound. The album is more conformist than anything else and let's not forget it had the two worst U2 songs ever written Miami and Playboy Mansion. Pop was made to be an album of hits not a concept album. So when it comes to new music people should not say it sucks just becuase it's not expieremental. It doesn't need to be expieremental as long as it's good. On that note those same people who say U2 needs to be more expieremental always rank SOI better than No Line which is just hypocrital because No line was a risk with some safe songs like Crazy. There was nothing but safe songs on SOI. 

Clarification* I'm not saying Pop is a bad album. I listen to it at least once a month and Please I view as one of their 10 best. However the point I am trying to raise is that after reading many criticisms on the new material becuase it's not edgy enough it may not be such a bad thing. All things considered U2 have always been after the same goal to be relevant. I don't think that is a bad goal and if th are making less ambitious albums in order to achieve that goal I have no problem with it as long as the album is still good.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2017, 12:55:40 PM by Allhorizonbomb »



Offline aviastar

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Re: People on this forum have overblown POP
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2017, 11:04:33 AM »
Pop has some good songs but I don't rank it incredibly highly in their catalog. I like the album artwork and Popmart tour aesthetics/design. At the same time, I didn't identify - at the time - with the whole concept.  I was 18 years old when this album came out, and I was cool with some of the experimentation on AB/Zooropa because they were delivering high-quality albums. Pop kinda veered out of control for me though - tackiness for tackiness sake?  Over the top irony that was exhausting after 6 years already?  It felt like they were a little too late to the party on this one. I thought the messaging on the ZooTV was really pretty cool, but with Pop I felt the messaging was way to deliberate to be cool. I despised the album when it first came out....it took me about 5 years to really dig into it and pick out some songs that I like.  I remember at the time feeling like I had lost my favorite rock band.

I think people who in the States who loved the TJT era and were patient through the AB era about had it when it came to Pop.  That's why ATYCLB was such a big comeback - in retrospect it's not even a great U2 album IMO but it was like "I got my band back!!".

That said, I can appreciate why people like it...and yes there are a lot on this board who like it.  I find it interesting though that the band has pretty much disavowed the thing.  In terms of NLOTH and experimentation - I really dug parts of NLOTH but they tried to do too many things at once...cramming a couple crappy hits into the middle of what for the most part is a moody album did it in commercially.  Plus, the good songs on NLOTH are hard to tour.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2017, 11:08:46 AM by aviastar »

Offline an tha

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Re: People on this forum have overblown POP
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2017, 11:08:38 AM »
''Disgusting negativity''....sorry stopped reading there as that kind of attitude really does not foster engagement in reasoned discussion in my view.

Offline riffraff

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Re: People on this forum have overblown POP
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2017, 11:09:30 AM »
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''Disgusting negativity''....sorry stopped reading there as that kind of attitude really does not foster engagement in reasoned discussion in my view.
this

Offline Johnny Feathers

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Re: People on this forum have overblown POP
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2017, 11:15:37 AM »
While I would like to see U2 break away from the mainstream direction more, I agree it doesn't matter if the songs are great.

I like Pop, but I think folks misattribute why it's viewed favorably in light of their more recent material.  I think it's less to do with concepts like "experimentation" and more to do with something much simpler: aggression.  Songs like DYFL, Mofo, LNOE, and Gone are basically aggressive, loud songs.  They're in minor keys, and they're loud.  And they haven't, by and large, done much aggressive stuff since then.

Offline trevgreg

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Re: People on this forum have overblown POP
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2017, 11:43:15 AM »
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In reading speculation for what SOE may look like on this forum, all I've ever heard is disgusting negativity towards any new material. I get it, everyone hates songs made to be hits and they want more expiementation like U2 did with Pop, but not like they did with No Line on the Horizon becuase they expierementaion on No Line "sucked". Let's not forget what Pop was, a blatant attempt to fit into modern music trends while they tried to bash other modern cultural trends like thy did on ZooTv. The only reason Pop was expieremental was because it was different from U2s previous sound. The album is more conformist than anything else and let's not forget it had the two worst U2 songs ever written Miami and Playboy Mansion. Pop was made to be an album of hits not a concept album.

Is Pop the greatest album by this band or of all-time? No. I donít think anyone here is really saying it is either. But obviously, it did seem to make an impression on people in one form or another.

Oddly enough, when I came back to some of the songs I probably held as my least favorite on there a few years back (Playboy Mansion, IYWTVD), I was a bit more impressed than I was back in the day. Theyíre definitely better than some of the Ďworstí tracks on some of the other albums, imo.

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So when it comes to new music people should not say it sucks just becuase it's not expieremental. It doesn't need to be expieremental as long as it's good.

True. But I donít think Ďmotivesí or whatever are really things to consider in such a thing too. This band does enough interviews where we can nit-pick every little details for days on end, but in some ways itís not the best thing because it might influence a few of us on whether we like a track or not. But at the end of the day, it should be about whether itís any good or not, yeah.

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On that note those same people who say U2 needs to be more expieremental always rank SOI better than No Line which is just hypocrital because No line was a risk with some safe songs like Crazy. There was nothing but safe songs on SOI.

Again, I think itís a bit broad to say everyone is on one side of the fence and everyone else is on another. People are going to like certain songs or theyíre not. Itís really as simple as that.

That said, part of the reason I canít get into the ďsafe/MORĒ state of mind too much is that most of the time, fans have no idea what itís like to go into a studio and try coming up with a song. If they go in just with the mindset of doing everything that they havenít done before (whatever that means), then thatís probably going to sound more contrived than anything. A lot of the time, you just latch onto an idea and try completing it from there. Edge isnít going to grab a mandolin for the sake of hipster cred amongst a few people.

That and part of the reason I think SOI gets some flack is that five of the first six songs use IĖVĖviĖIV progressions to some extent, which might remind people of stuff they may here on the radio or as singles from other bands. Iím one to admit that NLOTH had some decent songs on there and ideas, but a lot of them never really gave way to something worth hearing or even actual songs (YouTube isnít exactly up to the brim with Cedars of Lebanon covers, for example).

Offline the_chief

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Re: People on this forum have overblown POP
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2017, 12:00:35 PM »
He has a point.

It's one of the snobbiest forums I've ever come across :D I certainly hope not all U2 fans are like this
Like the post above me...Who really cares if U2 does a I-V-vi-IV chord progression ffs....That's just laughable!

Very simple way to analyse a song....You either like it, or you don't!

What the hell do you want them to do? Make good music you like or make absolutely sh**e music, that has a passage in one song that you deem to be "artistic" and "adventurous"
« Last Edit: July 18, 2017, 12:02:36 PM by the_chief »

Offline The Exile

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Re: People on this forum have overblown POP
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2017, 12:03:08 PM »
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... all I've ever heard is disgusting negativity towards any new material.

... they want more expiementation like U2 did with Pop, but not like they did with No Line on the Horizon becuase they expierementaion on No Line "sucked".

... those same people who say U2 needs to be more expieremental always rank SOI better than No Line which is just hypocrital because No line was a risk with some safe songs like Crazy. There was nothing but safe songs on SOI.

I can't speak for anyone else, but from where I sit those of us who prefer experimental U2 don't insult "people on this forum" with sweeping generalizations about what "they" always say or think, especially not when brand new to the group.

Your first impression is lacking.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2017, 12:07:20 PM by The Exile »

Offline the_chief

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Re: People on this forum have overblown POP
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2017, 12:07:29 PM »
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... all I've ever heard is disgusting negativity towards any new material.

... they want more expiementation like U2 did with Pop, but not like they did with No Line on the Horizon becuase they expierementaion on No Line "sucked".

... those same people who say U2 needs to be more expieremental always rank SOI better than No Line which is just hypocrital because No line was a risk with some safe songs like Crazy. There was nothing but safe songs on SOI.

I can't speak for anyone else, but from where I sit those of us who prefer experimental U2 don't insult everyone else on this forum with sweeping generalizations about what "they" always say or think, especially not when brand new to the group.

Your first impression is lacking.

Hope you realise Achtung Baby's songs are all basically three chord songs....

Offline an tha

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Re: People on this forum have overblown POP
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2017, 12:08:22 PM »
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What the hell do you want them to do? Make good music you like or make absolutely sh**e music, that has a passage in one song that you deem to be "artistic" and "adventurous"

Why do the two things have to be mutually exclusive?


Offline THRILLHO

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Re: People on this forum have overblown POP
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2017, 12:11:44 PM »
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Offline Allhorizonbomb

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Re: People on this forum have overblown POP
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2017, 12:12:40 PM »
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''Disgusting negativity''....sorry stopped reading there as that kind of attitude really does not foster engagement in reasoned discussion in my view.
this

We must have grew up in different education systems then becuase my use of that adjective an adverb were meant to show emphasis and a rather positive attitude for hope in the future. Personally that's the exact way I feel when I read comment after comment of people bashing the new songs before they've even been officially released yet so I thought that combination of words played rather well into my statement. This is in no way meant to be insulting.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2017, 12:14:34 PM by Allhorizonbomb »

Offline an tha

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Re: People on this forum have overblown POP
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2017, 12:12:49 PM »
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A coke with that?

Offline the_chief

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Re: People on this forum have overblown POP
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2017, 12:21:52 PM »
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What the hell do you want them to do? Make good music you like or make absolutely sh**e music, that has a passage in one song that you deem to be "artistic" and "adventurous"

Why do the two things have to be mutually exclusive?



They don't but, I've been reading this forum for years and as far as I can see, there is a lot of snobbery in relation to their music.

Take their last album for example.
Raised By Wolves, California are two great songs. Nothing complicated, nothing "adventurous" yet, they're two top class songs.
EBW is another top class song, evident by the performances either with solo piano or string sections. Again, nothing too adventurous in terms of the structure, melody or arrangement.

Yet, all I've read is major criticism of those songs and that album on here. And the common theme is, it's not artistic, adventurous and experimental enough.

It's mind blowing. I get the impression some on here go out and buy a record and instead of basically either enjoying it or not, some of you sit there, scratching your chin and think, "Hmmm yes, that little grace note on bar 56 reminds me of an incident but, the rest is mediocre. Not good enough for me"

Case in point, The Little Things...As soon as I heard that song, it hit me! It's a beautifully crafted song, with hard hitting lyrics that hit home with me and certain issues I've had for some time. However, I'm also a musician and I didn't sit down and analyse it bar by bar. I didn't look down on it because it didn't introduce an experimental rap with a phase effect on the vocal. I either liked it or I didn't!

Unless you're the creator, that's what music should be about as a listener!
Imagine going for a pint and having a conversation about U2....

"So I see U2 released an album there last week"
"Yeah, I bought it..."
"What ya think? Any good?"
"Well, there are "good" songs on it but, from an artistic point of view, I think it needs to be more experimental in a wider sense and tackle the musical restraints of the 21st century"
".......................................Might wanna lay off the booze mate"
« Last Edit: July 18, 2017, 12:24:53 PM by the_chief »

Offline Allhorizonbomb

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Re: People on this forum have overblown POP
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2017, 12:23:08 PM »
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... all I've ever heard is disgusting negativity towards any new material.

... they want more expiementation like U2 did with Pop, but not like they did with No Line on the Horizon becuase they expierementaion on No Line "sucked".

... those same people who say U2 needs to be more expieremental always rank SOI better than No Line which is just hypocrital because No line was a risk with some safe songs like Crazy. There was nothing but safe songs on SOI.

I can't speak for anyone else, but from where I sit those of us who prefer experimental U2 don't insult "people on this forum" with sweeping generalizations about what "they" always say or think, especially not when brand new to the group.

Your first impression is lacking.
I've been reading this forum for years the account is just relitively new and I don't post much. To clarify though, I'm not trying to dump on all people who enjoy expieremental U2. This statement was meant as an opposing point to a generalization of comments I see all the time saying that U2 sucks becuase thy don't sound differnent anymore and that they cater too much to the younger audiences. I say people in the title to this post beucase I can't name names of these comments they are too numerous. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I respect those that prefer expieremental U2. I'm just tired of all the negative comments so I thought I'd give my opposing opinion.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2017, 12:37:05 PM by Allhorizonbomb »