Author Topic: People on this forum have overblown POP  (Read 4063 times)

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Offline shineinthesummernight

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Re: People on this forum have overblown POP
« Reply #75 on: July 20, 2017, 11:37:46 AM »
A zillion people have copied Madonna, from other musicians to middle school children, but in the 80's she was an absolute original with a style like no other.

Offline JTNash

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Re: People on this forum have overblown POP
« Reply #76 on: July 20, 2017, 11:44:42 AM »
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If Madonna didn't have an emerging Mtv behind her early in her career, she probably wouldn't have lasted beyond six months, but her and Mtv were perfect for each other and used each other  She was style over substance.  Her sex appeal sold and she pushed that envelope for YEARS.  For me it was tiring and i felt embarrassed for her a few times even.

I disagree. Her early songs are pop brilliance. Lucky Star, Borderline, Like A Virgin, etc., would all have been club staples without her incredible appearance. And let's face it; Madonna was absolutely stunning.
all us 80s girls sang some Madonna into the hair brush microphone she was a cultural phenomenon.  As were U2 live aid on TV and the Red Rocks concert all visual broke them in the US.  Pop was not that well received on my college campus

Offline Blueyedboy

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Re: People on this forum have overblown POP
« Reply #77 on: July 21, 2017, 12:06:40 AM »
U2 and Madonna have both been tamed by age and wealth. Both remained at the top of their game far too long for it to be down to anything other than because they were very good at what they did.

Today. For every Madonna there's a Miley Cyrus or Lady Ga Ga, for every U2 there's a Kings Of Leon or Coldplay. The Wolf climbing the hill is always hungrier than the one on top of it, and they speak to the younger audience better than mid 50's folk do.

Offline shineinthesummernight

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Re: People on this forum have overblown POP
« Reply #78 on: July 21, 2017, 09:00:00 PM »
Perhaps Madonna should go into politics.  She's quite bright.  Madonna for President?!! 8)

Offline THRILLHO

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Re: People on this forum have overblown POP
« Reply #79 on: July 21, 2017, 09:29:49 PM »
i got Ray of Light tonight based on this thread alone.

Offline Blueyedboy

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Re: People on this forum have overblown POP
« Reply #80 on: July 21, 2017, 11:32:47 PM »
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i got Ray of Light tonight based on this thread alone.

I got it at the time based on the singles she released, it's a decent album hey?

Is the one and only time Madge had appealed to me. Well, apart from her risqué faze when I was 12/13 but that was due a different reason altogether.

Offline THRILLHO

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Re: People on this forum have overblown POP
« Reply #81 on: July 21, 2017, 11:47:49 PM »
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i got Ray of Light tonight based on this thread alone.

I got it at the time based on the singles she released, it's a decent album hey?

Is the one and only time Madge had appealed to me. Well, apart from her risqué faze when I was 12/13 but that was due a different reason altogether.

LOL at the 12 y/o thing. yea i couldnt see d**k Tracy cuz she was in it but ooooooooooooooooooo i wanted to  8)

ill listen to it this weekend

Offline KenpoMatt

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Re: People on this forum have overblown POP
« Reply #82 on: July 23, 2017, 01:43:07 PM »
My take is that U2 have under-valued Pop rather than the forum over-blowing it.

I dont it's the all time greatest, but far more deserving of having one track played on one show since the Vertigo tour.

Offline monopoly

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Re: People on this forum have overblown POP
« Reply #83 on: July 23, 2017, 01:59:31 PM »
It deserves some attention. Achtung Baby gets a 20 year anniversary documentary. JT gets remastered. Pop gets nothing

Offline Luzita

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Re: People on this forum have overblown POP
« Reply #84 on: July 23, 2017, 03:07:27 PM »
Let's get real:  The idea that Pop was the height of U2's career (or even a high point at all), or that they should give us more music along the same lines, is surely a minority opinion among U2 fans. That doesn't make it an invalid opinion, of course. It is perfectly valid, and people who feel that way are entitled to say so.

However, when a minority opinion dominates a forum to such an extent that a new user like myself immediately notices, something screwy is going on. I'm not sure what sort of dynamic has gone on here to produce these results, but I believe it deserves some thought, because it's not a good thing. This forum would be much more interesting if it were more representative of the whole spectrum of opinion and perspective among U2 fans. If I don't see more of that, I may not stay -- which is perhaps a clue as to what the dynamic has been. I am grateful to allhorizonbomb for pointing out the issue.

Online an tha

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Re: People on this forum have overblown POP
« Reply #85 on: July 23, 2017, 03:18:39 PM »
Right so people are 'entitled to their opinion' but if most of what is posted is not an opinion you agree with instead of staying around adding to the discussion and providing the balance you claim to want you'll walk away...

Hmm I am not sure you have really at best articulated that as you may have meant to or at worst you have and therefore your mind seems pretty made up...

Don't fall down that hole - you seem to have stuff to say and an ability to say it in an interesting manner....you'll find people who although they may have a different view to you will appreciate your views and engage in discussion with you - but 'i'm off if i don't read more stuff i agree with' isn't going to do you any favours!

« Last Edit: July 23, 2017, 03:34:42 PM by an tha »

Offline Spaderholic

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Re: People on this forum have overblown POP
« Reply #86 on: July 23, 2017, 03:30:36 PM »
That Pop is an artistic, creative highpoint of U2's career is, by all accounts I've read, an opinion held by a great many long-time U2 fans, not a "minority opinion" at all. Just because it didn't go down well, commercially, in the US at the time doesn't mean that the rest of the world didn't love it or that fans who weren't so keen on it at the time haven't grown to love it since then, especially considering the material they've released since then. For a great many fans (me included) it seems that Pop is the last album where U2 really challenged themselves, took chances and created an album that was inventive, creative and challenging for them. Before they headed down a more mainstream, MOR, safe route. Pop may not be everyone's cup of tea but it's certainly loved by more than just a minority of fans.

Offline DoYouFeelLoved

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People on this forum have overblown POP
« Reply #87 on: July 23, 2017, 03:41:15 PM »
I'd like to add that I personally know a dozen of casual fans/non fans that consider Pop their greatest album, so I would take the "fan bias" factor out of the equation (given it'll be taken in consideration in this discussion) when judging the album's true merit.

Offline aviastar

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Re: People on this forum have overblown POP
« Reply #88 on: July 23, 2017, 03:53:13 PM »
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That Pop is an artistic, creative highpoint of U2's career is, by all accounts I've read, an opinion held by a great many long-time U2 fans, not a "minority opinion" at all. Just because it didn't go down well, commercially, in the US at the time doesn't mean that the rest of the world didn't love it or that fans who weren't so keen on it at the time haven't grown to love it since then, especially considering the material they've released since then. For a great many fans (me included) it seems that Pop is the last album where U2 really challenged themselves, took chances and created an album that was inventive, creative and challenging for them. Before they headed down a more mainstream, MOR, safe route. Pop may not be everyone's cup of tea but it's certainly loved by more than just a minority of fans.

I've been a U2 fan for 30 years, and I found the music on Pop - at the time of its release - to be just okay.  Some of the songs I really liked  (notably, Please and Gone).  I didn't get the transformation at all.  I remember lots of TJT and AB-era fans here in the US were just totally turned off by it - some gave up U2 entirely or just listen to their early stuff.  I can see why U2 fans new to the board think that people are taking a contrarian position (i.e. is the pinnacle of U2).  In reality even the band has admitted it was a rush job, was unfinished, the tour had a lot of issues to start, and it showed in the attendance at many American markets.

Maybe it's just an American thing - it was not "U2 popular" here the way TJT was popular.  The imaging, the branding, the wardrobes for Pop were just not anything that was really popular here (post-grunge/hard rock, rap, hip-hop -  in which segment was U2 Pop going to fit in?).  I've come to like and appreciate the album a bit more in the 20 years, but I can understand when people notice the board here skews towards Pop love.  It's a bit of revisionist history - I mean, the reason ATYCLB was such a massive success was it was a re-introduction of the U2 most people knew and loved.  That may sound a little American-centric, but in the late 90s and 2000s, the American market was the most important to U2 (and may still be).
« Last Edit: July 23, 2017, 03:55:57 PM by aviastar »

Offline Spaderholic

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Re: People on this forum have overblown POP
« Reply #89 on: July 23, 2017, 04:04:29 PM »
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That Pop is an artistic, creative highpoint of U2's career is, by all accounts I've read, an opinion held by a great many long-time U2 fans, not a "minority opinion" at all. Just because it didn't go down well, commercially, in the US at the time doesn't mean that the rest of the world didn't love it or that fans who weren't so keen on it at the time haven't grown to love it since then, especially considering the material they've released since then. For a great many fans (me included) it seems that Pop is the last album where U2 really challenged themselves, took chances and created an album that was inventive, creative and challenging for them. Before they headed down a more mainstream, MOR, safe route. Pop may not be everyone's cup of tea but it's certainly loved by more than just a minority of fans.

I've been a U2 fan for 30 years, and I found the music on Pop - at the time of its release - to be just okay.  Some of the songs I really liked  (notably, Please and Gone).  I didn't get the transformation at all.  I remember lots of TJT and AB-era fans here in the US were just totally turned off by it - some gave up U2 entirely or just listen to their early stuff.  I can see why U2 fans new to the board think that people are taking a contrarian position (i.e. is the pinnacle of U2).  In reality even the band has admitted it was a rush job, was unfinished, the tour had a lot of issues to start, and it showed in the attendance at many American markets.

Maybe it's just an American thing - it was not "U2 popular" here the way TJT was popular.  The imaging, the branding, the wardrobes for Pop were just not anything that was really popular here (post-grunge/hard rock, rap, hip-hop -  in which segment was U2 Pop going to fit in?).  I've come to like and appreciate the album a bit more in the 20 years, but I can understand when people notice the board here skews towards Pop love.  It's a bit of revisionist history - I mean, the reason ATYCLB was such a massive success was it was a re-introduction of the U2 most people knew and loved.  That may sound a little American-centric, but in the late 90s and 2000s, the American market was the most important to U2 (and may still be).

That's why I said the album may not have been popular in the US but was popular and more appreciated around the rest of the world, as was their PopMart tour. America may not have liked it much but here in Europe it was popular, as it had a more European sound. Just because the band's American fans didn't "get it" doesn't mean their fans over this side of the pond didn't! It's not all about America and what American fans like! The album's sounds and styles appealed to what was popular here in Europe at the time. U2 sadly may have disowned the album but that certainly disappoints a great many of their European fans who did and still do love the album. It's a shame the band are so bothered about sales rather than artistic creativity and challenging themselves! That's what disappoints a lot of their European fans, I think (going by the various comments I've read over the years).