Author Topic: Looking for Baby Jesus under the Trash: Post-Pop U2 and Beyond  (Read 1456 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Blueyedboy

  • Running to Stand Still
  • **
  • Posts: 1,050
  • Embrace the challenge
Re: Looking for Baby Jesus under the Trash: Post-Pop U2 and Beyond
« Reply #30 on: October 11, 2017, 12:11:49 AM »
Everyone has their own U2, my own is severely biased to pre 2000, although NLOTH is maybe in my top 5 albums by the band.

There's an argument to be had about cause and effect and the assumption that a diminishing eclecticism is at play here. Personally, the effect of me not listening to so much U2 had broadened my horizons to a point where I dont know which genre of music is my favorite. Another example is that my decision not to watch the last tour freed up enough cash for me to go and watch another half a dozen bands or artists.

My point is that there is a life outside of U2 fandom that allows people such as myself to fill the gaps that U2 no longer fill. The quality of U2s music is only one reason why I no longer feel the same about them. An additional factor is the length between albums. With reduced frequency comes reduced momentum. U2 "companion" albums no longer exist and each offering is starting from scratch. I've always argued (unsuccessfully) that one of Pops downfalls was the extended length between album releases. Zooropa would not be looked on so favourably if it didn't come hot on the heels of AB and Zoo TV.

It can only ever be a matter of taste and opinion, I can't say that my own U2 is any better than anyone else's, all I can say is that I wouldn't want to swap.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 03:30:01 AM by Blueyedboy »

Offline The Exile

  • Up With the Sun
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,245
  • It's all ball bearings nowadays.
Re: Looking for Baby Jesus under the Trash: Post-Pop U2 and Beyond
« Reply #31 on: October 11, 2017, 11:29:42 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I like pretty much anything that I am going to get on this new album!

Not to be an "age-ist" (ahem), but as one gets older his or her palate becomes more and more refined. It seems to me that just "liking pretty much anything" is a sign of youth and inexperience (not that that's bad, I would love to recapture some of my youthful enthusiasm, believe me!).

All that to say, please don't react too much to those of us who prefer this or that iteration of U2. It's just the result of exposure to the band over a long period of time. In fact, if someone is a long-time fan and has no preference between Miami, Twilight, and Cedars, I'd say he either isn't paying attention or has a woefully unformed palate.

Strong opinions are a good thing, is what I'm saying (whether they agree with mine or not).
That's not ageist, it's just kind of insulting. I like U2, and I think that, judging by what I've heard, that I am really, really, going to like this album!

Fair enough, and I sincerely hope you do like it (I expect to like at least some of it if TLT and TB are any indication).

And I apologize if what I said sounds insulting. But it is my experience that people's tastes become honed over time from general to specific. That doesn't mean that an older person can't like a broad range of things, it just means that it's unlikely that after listening to U2 for 34 years I will "like" Mofo in the same way that I "like" Mothers of the Disappeared. With experience and exposure comes nuance, is what I am saying.

A perfect counter-example is Joey from Friends: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Anyway, peace.

Offline The Exile

  • Up With the Sun
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,245
  • It's all ball bearings nowadays.
Re: Looking for Baby Jesus under the Trash: Post-Pop U2 and Beyond
« Reply #32 on: October 11, 2017, 11:32:37 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Quote
That's not ageist, it's just kind of insulting. I like U2, and I think that, judging by what I've heard, that I am really, really, going to like this album!

It's really not true, either. I'm 43 and my musical tastes have only grown more broad over the years, and I have more enthusiasm about it than ever. I can't remember the last time I seriously cared about things like what genre something is or how popular or how old or new. If I like it, I like it. I regularly baffle people with my incredibly random iPod, lol. Can't wait for the album myself.  ;D

Haha, too-shay, we are quite different in that regard!

When I shuffle music, I literally never shuffle U2 with any other artist. They've just become their own unique genre to me. I don't even shuffle between decades, I either shuffle '90s U2, or '80s, etc. Maybe I'm the weird one? Wouldn't be the first time....

Offline riffraff

  • Deep In the Heart
  • ****
  • Posts: 26,226
  • I know that this is not goodbye, my forum friends!
Re: Looking for Baby Jesus under the Trash: Post-Pop U2 and Beyond
« Reply #33 on: October 11, 2017, 11:34:36 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Quote
That's not ageist, it's just kind of insulting. I like U2, and I think that, judging by what I've heard, that I am really, really, going to like this album!

It's really not true, either. I'm 43 and my musical tastes have only grown more broad over the years, and I have more enthusiasm about it than ever. I can't remember the last time I seriously cared about things like what genre something is or how popular or how old or new. If I like it, I like it. I regularly baffle people with my incredibly random iPod, lol. Can't wait for the album myself.  ;D

Haha, too-shay, we are quite different in that regard!

When I shuffle music, I literally never shuffle U2 with any other artist. They've just become their own unique genre to me. I don't even shuffle between decades, I either shuffle '90s U2, or '80s, etc. Maybe I'm the weird one? Wouldn't be the first time....
I've been following this conversation...very interesting viewpoints. I'm old...and my tastes have narrowed down severely! I mostly listen to U2, or classic rock.

Offline The Exile

  • Up With the Sun
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,245
  • It's all ball bearings nowadays.
Re: Looking for Baby Jesus under the Trash: Post-Pop U2 and Beyond
« Reply #34 on: October 11, 2017, 11:39:42 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I've never come across anyone in my life where their musical taste has become "more and more refined"
Everyone I've grown up with have expanded their musical landscape and taste. It's more refined when you're a kid alright but, not as you grow up.

Maybe that's just you pal.

Maybe.

Here's what I mean: When I was a kid I used to listen to '80s pop music. I would just hear stuff in shops and whatnot and I liked it (Pet Shop Boys? Cyndi Lauper? Wham!? Yep, liked it all).

Then as I got a bit older (like maybe 12) I realized that some of the stuff they played on pop radio I liked more than others. I was developing a style of music that spoke to me more than other styles. Then I discovered KROQ (a local station) and realized that it was bands like Psychedelic Furs, The Smiths, and REM that I like more than "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun."

It doesn't mean that I hate the other stuff, it just means that my tastes have developed in a certain direction. Sure, I'll get stoked when "Rock Me Amadeus" comes on the radio, but it's more out of nostalgia than actually loving it.

Hope that makes more sense.

Offline The Exile

  • Up With the Sun
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,245
  • It's all ball bearings nowadays.
Re: Looking for Baby Jesus under the Trash: Post-Pop U2 and Beyond
« Reply #35 on: October 11, 2017, 11:41:53 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Everyone has their own U2, my own is severely biased to pre 2000, although NLOTH is maybe in my top 5 albums by the band.

There's an argument to be had about cause and effect and the assumption that a diminishing eclecticism is at play here. Personally, the effect of me not listening to so much U2 had broadened my horizons to a point where I dont know which genre of music is my favorite. Another example is that my decision not to watch the last tour freed up enough cash for me to go and watch another half a dozen bands or artists.

My point is that there is a life outside of U2 fandom that allows people such as myself to fill the gaps that U2 no longer fill. The quality of U2s music is only one reason why I no longer feel the same about them. An additional factor is the length between albums. With reduced frequency comes reduced momentum. U2 "companion" albums no longer exist and each offering is starting from scratch. I've always argued (unsuccessfully) that one of Pops downfalls was the extended length between album releases. Zooropa would not be looked on so favourably if it didn't come hot on the heels of AB and Zoo TV.

It can only ever be a matter of taste and opinion, I can't say that my own U2 is any better than anyone else's, all I can say is that I wouldn't want to swap.

Comment of the week, right here.

Offline shineinthesummernight

  • Child of Grace
  • **
  • Posts: 1,663
Re: Looking for Baby Jesus under the Trash: Post-Pop U2 and Beyond
« Reply #36 on: October 11, 2017, 02:52:32 PM »
It's nice that everyone on this thread is trying to see other people's points of view 8)

Offline riffraff

  • Deep In the Heart
  • ****
  • Posts: 26,226
  • I know that this is not goodbye, my forum friends!
Re: Looking for Baby Jesus under the Trash: Post-Pop U2 and Beyond
« Reply #37 on: October 11, 2017, 03:31:06 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
It's nice that everyone on this thread is trying to see other people's points of view 8)
Agreed! We DO try to play nice most of the time...

Offline WhenIsSOE

  • Intellectual Tortoise
  • *
  • Posts: 479
  • aka The Ultra Beasts (Welcome back!)
Re: Looking for Baby Jesus under the Trash: Post-Pop U2 and Beyond
« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2017, 03:32:34 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Before I start, I'd like to point out that I am only speaking for myself here. While I suspect that other like-minded forum members may agree, I wouldn't presume to say anything on their behalf.

OK, with that out of the way, I would just like to object, for the record, to this idea that is constantly being thrown around here that what certain of us want is for U2 to "remake Achtung Baby" or "Go back in time and be the band they were 30 years ago." I am certainly not saying this, and I don't think anyone else is either. And frankly, it can get tiresome (not to mention insulting) to be constantly diagnosed and misrepresented.

Someone recently demanded I make a list of post-Pop material I like (presumably as a way to "prove" that I belong here, despite my having been an active member for eight years). While at the time I refused on principle, I would like now to set forth some evidence that my occasional criticism of U2 has nothing to do with being "stuck in the past" as many of us are constantly accused of being.

If U2 released an album or albums with any combination of these songs, I would be thrilled:

TGBHF
Stateless
Never Let Me Go
Electrical Storm
Summer Rain
Kite
New York
Native Son
Being Born
Soon
MOS
COL
Magnificent
Crystal Ballroom
EBW (live version)
SLABT
The Troubles
Reach Me Now
RBW
Cedarwood Road
The Blackout

There is other post-Pop material that I like, of course, but this is just a sampling intended to demonstrate that people who dismissively suggest that those of us who don't like TBT or GOOYOW are "out of touch," "living in the past," or are "constantly being negative" are wide of the mark.

I've said it before and I will say it again: U2 are really good at what they don't seem to care about, and are really bad at what they do seem to care about. It's not so much the existence of IGCIIDGCT, SFS, and YTBTAM that bothers me, it's that these are the songs by which the band seeks to promote themselves (while their more interesting material gets forgotten almost immediately).

Now whether other members echo these thoughts or not, I hope they will go a small way towards dispelling the false narratives that are constantly thrown in our faces about how horrible we all are. I love U2 and have since I was 10. I still love U2, and I love a LOT of their most recent material.

But I will not just fall in line and goosestep along with the crowd by heaping unmixed praise on every little thing the band releases. This is a forum, not an echo chamber.
Isn't this the first post on the thread? Why post it again?

WookieeWarrior10

  • Guest
Re: Looking for Baby Jesus under the Trash: Post-Pop U2 and Beyond
« Reply #39 on: October 11, 2017, 03:36:55 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Before I start, I'd like to point out that I am only speaking for myself here. While I suspect that other like-minded forum members may agree, I wouldn't presume to say anything on their behalf.

OK, with that out of the way, I would just like to object, for the record, to this idea that is constantly being thrown around here that what certain of us want is for U2 to "remake Achtung Baby" or "Go back in time and be the band they were 30 years ago." I am certainly not saying this, and I don't think anyone else is either. And frankly, it can get tiresome (not to mention insulting) to be constantly diagnosed and misrepresented.

Someone recently demanded I make a list of post-Pop material I like (presumably as a way to "prove" that I belong here, despite my having been an active member for eight years). While at the time I refused on principle, I would like now to set forth some evidence that my occasional criticism of U2 has nothing to do with being "stuck in the past" as many of us are constantly accused of being.

If U2 released an album or albums with any combination of these songs, I would be thrilled:

TGBHF
Stateless
Never Let Me Go
Electrical Storm
Summer Rain
Kite
New York
Native Son
Being Born
Soon
MOS
COL
Magnificent
Crystal Ballroom
EBW (live version)
SLABT
The Troubles
Reach Me Now
RBW
Cedarwood Road
The Blackout

There is other post-Pop material that I like, of course, but this is just a sampling intended to demonstrate that people who dismissively suggest that those of us who don't like TBT or GOOYOW are "out of touch," "living in the past," or are "constantly being negative" are wide of the mark.

I've said it before and I will say it again: U2 are really good at what they don't seem to care about, and are really bad at what they do seem to care about. It's not so much the existence of IGCIIDGCT, SFS, and YTBTAM that bothers me, it's that these are the songs by which the band seeks to promote themselves (while their more interesting material gets forgotten almost immediately).

Now whether other members echo these thoughts or not, I hope they will go a small way towards dispelling the false narratives that are constantly thrown in our faces about how horrible we all are. I love U2 and have since I was 10. I still love U2, and I love a LOT of their most recent material.

But I will not just fall in line and goosestep along with the crowd by heaping unmixed praise on every little thing the band releases. This is a forum, not an echo chamber.
Isn't this the first post on the thread? Why post it again?

He didn't...

Miss San Diego

  • Guest
Re: Looking for Baby Jesus under the Trash: Post-Pop U2 and Beyond
« Reply #40 on: October 11, 2017, 06:08:21 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Quote
That's not ageist, it's just kind of insulting. I like U2, and I think that, judging by what I've heard, that I am really, really, going to like this album!

It's really not true, either. I'm 43 and my musical tastes have only grown more broad over the years, and I have more enthusiasm about it than ever. I can't remember the last time I seriously cared about things like what genre something is or how popular or how old or new. If I like it, I like it. I regularly baffle people with my incredibly random iPod, lol. Can't wait for the album myself.  ;D

Haha, too-shay, we are quite different in that regard!

When I shuffle music, I literally never shuffle U2 with any other artist. They've just become their own unique genre to me. I don't even shuffle between decades, I either shuffle '90s U2, or '80s, etc. Maybe I'm the weird one? Wouldn't be the first time....

Interesting! For me, it's definitely U2 way up top in their own category and then everyone else in different places below, but if I'm just shuffling through all 3100 songs I have, everybody's in there. I don't put them on the specifically dated playlists where some of their stuff would technically fit, though, like 80s or Classic Rock (there are probably different definitions of this but mine's pretty much 20 years or older) because they really don't fit. Too timeless. Even the oldest stuff just sounds like baby U2 to me and not really like anything else I have from the early 80s, and it's bizarre that things like TUF and JT could even exist in that decade. There was a lot of great stuff back then, as well as a lot of candy-colored idiocy that could also be great, but nobody was doing that.

Offline The Exile

  • Up With the Sun
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,245
  • It's all ball bearings nowadays.
Re: Looking for Baby Jesus under the Trash: Post-Pop U2 and Beyond
« Reply #41 on: October 12, 2017, 01:24:06 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Quote
That's not ageist, it's just kind of insulting. I like U2, and I think that, judging by what I've heard, that I am really, really, going to like this album!

It's really not true, either. I'm 43 and my musical tastes have only grown more broad over the years, and I have more enthusiasm about it than ever. I can't remember the last time I seriously cared about things like what genre something is or how popular or how old or new. If I like it, I like it. I regularly baffle people with my incredibly random iPod, lol. Can't wait for the album myself.  ;D

Haha, too-shay, we are quite different in that regard!

When I shuffle music, I literally never shuffle U2 with any other artist. They've just become their own unique genre to me. I don't even shuffle between decades, I either shuffle '90s U2, or '80s, etc. Maybe I'm the weird one? Wouldn't be the first time....

Interesting! For me, it's definitely U2 way up top in their own category and then everyone else in different places below, but if I'm just shuffling through all 3100 songs I have, everybody's in there. I don't put them on the specifically dated playlists where some of their stuff would technically fit, though, like 80s or Classic Rock (there are probably different definitions of this but mine's pretty much 20 years or older) because they really don't fit. Too timeless. Even the oldest stuff just sounds like baby U2 to me and not really like anything else I have from the early 80s, and it's bizarre that things like TUF and JT could even exist in that decade. There was a lot of great stuff back then, as well as a lot of candy-colored idiocy that could also be great, but nobody was doing that.

One of my rituals is, after listening to a new U2 album for a month or so, I create a playlist from it where I might nix a song or two and add a song or two (for SOI I got rid of California and added Crystal Ballroom, for example). So as long as SOE has 5-6 songs I like I will figure out a way to make do.  :)

Offline DGordon1

  • Elevated
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,199
Re: Looking for Baby Jesus under the Trash: Post-Pop U2 and Beyond
« Reply #42 on: October 12, 2017, 03:39:31 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I like pretty much anything that I am going to get on this new album!

Not to be an "age-ist" (ahem), but as one gets older his or her palate becomes more and more refined. It seems to me that just "liking pretty much anything" is a sign of youth and inexperience (not that that's bad, I would love to recapture some of my youthful enthusiasm, believe me!).

Sorry but, that is so wrong on so many levels. It's B.S. to be honest with you.

My musical taste has gotten broader and I've grown to appreciate all kinds of music through out my life as I've gotten older.
Maybe that's the result of me being a musician or something, I don't know but, I can honestly say, I've never come across anyone in my life where their musical taste has become "more and more refined"
Everyone I've grown up with have expanded their musical landscape and taste. It's more refined when you're a kid alright but, not as you grow up.

Maybe that's just you pal.

What an odd reaction.

I think all Exile is saying is that as you get older you know what you want more. When you're younger, you'll expose yourself to more types of music because you're still working out what interests you.

It's a very common thing for people's musical horizons to narrow as they get older. When you're younger, you're often open to listening to different types of music to see what will interest you. As you get older, you tend to know what you like more and naturally will gravitate towards it. This, coupled with having less free time, can often result in you sticking predominantly to what you like and not branching out so much. I cant believe you havent seen this in some people.

If on the other hand the opposite has happened to you and others you know, that's fantastic. But I wouldn't say it's the norm.

I'm only 30 but I know for sure that I'm listening to fewer new bands that I was 10 years ago, for the reasons I stated. I can only see that continuing as I get older.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 03:43:11 PM by DGordon1 »

Offline acrobat62

  • Elevated
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,449
  • I'm hatching some plot, scheming some scheme
Re: Looking for Baby Jesus under the Trash: Post-Pop U2 and Beyond
« Reply #43 on: October 13, 2017, 08:08:59 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I think what people tend to forget is that people's taste in music differ and that it's no different among U2 fans.  We all like the same band, but there is such a large catalog of music that most people aren't going to like everything that the band puts out.   

I believe the basic premise is this: it's fine to agree to disagree.  There is no right or wrong opinion and people tend to forget this.

Agreed. And what utterly clouds this idea is dismissing people's critical opinions as "negative." It's a total category error, like dismissing it as negative when someone says they don't like mushrooms.
It's entirely unethical to not like mushrooms.  ;D

You know what? Some people around here don't like mushrooms, deal with it! Or go find some other mushroom-friendly U2 forum....

 ;D

What kind of shrooms you talkin' bout Willis?   :)

Offline codeguy

  • Elevated
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,787
  • If there is a light, don't let it go out
Re: Looking for Baby Jesus under the Trash: Post-Pop U2 and Beyond
« Reply #44 on: October 13, 2017, 08:20:56 AM »
It's all about personal taste.

I even like Sinistereo from Spiderman Turn off the dark.