Author Topic: U2 drops from #1 to #13 in top 200 billboard  (Read 6904 times)

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Offline Rasmus

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Re: U2 drops from #1 to #13 in top 200 billboard
« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2018, 01:49:16 PM »
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Its not a bad album... the problem is that U2 were an extraordinary band for the first 20 years of their career and all new releases from them will be compared to the masterpieces from the 80's and 90's.

Much of the bands best music has been recorded in the 00s and 10s. "Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own", Miracle Drug, Walk On, Kite, Winter, and Mercy are all songs that  I consider to be in the 20 greatest U2 songs of all time.

Different strokes for different folks 8). Of the songs you mention I would only consider Kite to be a top 20 contender and it would have to fight quite hard to get it ;D.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2018, 04:17:14 PM by Rasmus »

Offline wons

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Re: U2 drops from #1 to #13 in top 200 billboard
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2018, 10:33:54 PM »
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Its not a bad album... the problem is that U2 were an extraordinary band for the first 20 years of their career and all new releases from them will be compared to the masterpieces from the 80's and 90's.

Much of the bands best music has been recorded in the 00s and 10s. "Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own", Miracle Drug, Walk On, Kite, Winter, and Mercy are all songs that  I consider to be in the 20 greatest U2 songs of all time.

Different strokes for different folks 8). Of the songs you mention I would only consider Kite to be a top 20 contender and it would have to fight quite hard to get it ;D.

Another thing, Pop and Zooropa have never really been considered Masterpieces. All That You Can't Leave Behind and How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb on the other hand have 15 Grammy award wins between them and have sold a combined 23 million copies worldwide. Most people consider them masterpieces which they are.

Offline Rasmus

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Re: U2 drops from #1 to #13 in top 200 billboard
« Reply #32 on: April 01, 2018, 01:35:15 PM »
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Its not a bad album... the problem is that U2 were an extraordinary band for the first 20 years of their career and all new releases from them will be compared to the masterpieces from the 80's and 90's.

Much of the bands best music has been recorded in the 00s and 10s. "Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own", Miracle Drug, Walk On, Kite, Winter, and Mercy are all songs that  I consider to be in the 20 greatest U2 songs of all time.

Different strokes for different folks 8). Of the songs you mention I would only consider Kite to be a top 20 contender and it would have to fight quite hard to get it ;D.

Another thing, Pop and Zooropa have never really been considered Masterpieces. All That You Can't Leave Behind and How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb on the other hand have 15 Grammy award wins between them and have sold a combined 23 million copies worldwide. Most people consider them masterpieces which they are.

Maybe the general public who mainly know U2 by their big singles (With or Without You, Beautiful Day, Vertigo) but the consensus is different amongst U2 fans. I actually like ATYCLB a lot and I think it's a very special album... the problems started after that ;D. HTDAAB should never have won so many grammies but the timing of the album was quite good.

Offline connorfin22

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Re: U2 drops from #1 to #13 in top 200 billboard
« Reply #33 on: April 01, 2018, 06:16:53 PM »
Because of the current mainstream music landscape. No rock acts do well in major scales these days. Nothing to do with U2 themselves.

Offline wons

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Re: U2 drops from #1 to #13 in top 200 billboard
« Reply #34 on: April 01, 2018, 11:22:28 PM »
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Its not a bad album... the problem is that U2 were an extraordinary band for the first 20 years of their career and all new releases from them will be compared to the masterpieces from the 80's and 90's.

Much of the bands best music has been recorded in the 00s and 10s. "Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own", Miracle Drug, Walk On, Kite, Winter, and Mercy are all songs that  I consider to be in the 20 greatest U2 songs of all time.

Different strokes for different folks 8). Of the songs you mention I would only consider Kite to be a top 20 contender and it would have to fight quite hard to get it ;D.

Another thing, Pop and Zooropa have never really been considered Masterpieces. All That You Can't Leave Behind and How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb on the other hand have 15 Grammy award wins between them and have sold a combined 23 million copies worldwide. Most people consider them masterpieces which they are.

Maybe the general public who mainly know U2 by their big singles (With or Without You, Beautiful Day, Vertigo) but the consensus is different amongst U2 fans. I actually like ATYCLB a lot and I think it's a very special album... the problems started after that ;D. HTDAAB should never have won so many grammies but the timing of the album was quite good.

U2 won 8 Grammy awards for HTDAAB and Steve Lillywhite won a grammy award as producer of the year for his work on the album, which makes How To Dismantle And Atomic Bomb the album to win the most Grammy awards in history with 9!

In my opinion, its U2's best album with the exception of Achtung Baby and the Joshua Tree.

The Pop album is a failed album in that the band needed to spend at least 6 more months working on it, to include re-writing some of the songs as well as re-recording others. It was an unfinished album rushed out the door to meet a tour deadline. The band have admitted that and have said its a mistake they would never make again.

Offline Rasmus

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Re: U2 drops from #1 to #13 in top 200 billboard
« Reply #35 on: April 03, 2018, 02:30:37 AM »
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Its not a bad album... the problem is that U2 were an extraordinary band for the first 20 years of their career and all new releases from them will be compared to the masterpieces from the 80's and 90's.

Much of the bands best music has been recorded in the 00s and 10s. "Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own", Miracle Drug, Walk On, Kite, Winter, and Mercy are all songs that  I consider to be in the 20 greatest U2 songs of all time.

Different strokes for different folks 8). Of the songs you mention I would only consider Kite to be a top 20 contender and it would have to fight quite hard to get it ;D.

Another thing, Pop and Zooropa have never really been considered Masterpieces. All That You Can't Leave Behind and How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb on the other hand have 15 Grammy award wins between them and have sold a combined 23 million copies worldwide. Most people consider them masterpieces which they are.

Maybe the general public who mainly know U2 by their big singles (With or Without You, Beautiful Day, Vertigo) but the consensus is different amongst U2 fans. I actually like ATYCLB a lot and I think it's a very special album... the problems started after that ;D. HTDAAB should never have won so many grammies but the timing of the album was quite good.

U2 won 8 Grammy awards for HTDAAB and Steve Lillywhite won a grammy award as producer of the year for his work on the album, which makes How To Dismantle And Atomic Bomb the album to win the most Grammy awards in history with 9!

In my opinion, its U2's best album with the exception of Achtung Baby and the Joshua Tree.

The Pop album is a failed album in that the band needed to spend at least 6 more months working on it, to include re-writing some of the songs as well as re-recording others. It was an unfinished album rushed out the door to meet a tour deadline. The band have admitted that and have said its a mistake they would never make again.

Yet Pop is a far superior album to HTDAAB in many U2 fans opinion. HTDAAB recently scored the lowest of all U2 albums in a poll done on Interference where U2 fans were asked to rate all the bands songs (1-10). I wont deny that its a more popular album in the general population though. The fact that it won 9 grammy's makes very little sense to me, but then again the grammies does not exactly have a reputation for hitting the mark.

Offline Luzita

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Re: U2 drops from #1 to #13 in top 200 billboard
« Reply #36 on: April 03, 2018, 06:24:20 AM »
It should be noted that Interference poll had only 28 participants. There is certainly a segment of the hardcore fan population that ranks HTDAAB low, but Im not sure how true that is of the whole hardcore fan population.


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Offline Luzita

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Re: U2 drops from #1 to #13 in top 200 billboard
« Reply #37 on: April 03, 2018, 06:37:53 AM »
Just checked the survey conducted on this site in 2016. HTDAAB was voted least favorite album by 5.3%, while Pop was voted least favorite by 9.08%. This question had 3865 participants.

Results here:

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Offline wons

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Re: U2 drops from #1 to #13 in top 200 billboard
« Reply #38 on: April 03, 2018, 09:20:47 AM »
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Its not a bad album... the problem is that U2 were an extraordinary band for the first 20 years of their career and all new releases from them will be compared to the masterpieces from the 80's and 90's.

Much of the bands best music has been recorded in the 00s and 10s. "Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own", Miracle Drug, Walk On, Kite, Winter, and Mercy are all songs that  I consider to be in the 20 greatest U2 songs of all time.

Different strokes for different folks 8). Of the songs you mention I would only consider Kite to be a top 20 contender and it would have to fight quite hard to get it ;D.

Another thing, Pop and Zooropa have never really been considered Masterpieces. All That You Can't Leave Behind and How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb on the other hand have 15 Grammy award wins between them and have sold a combined 23 million copies worldwide. Most people consider them masterpieces which they are.

Maybe the general public who mainly know U2 by their big singles (With or Without You, Beautiful Day, Vertigo) but the consensus is different amongst U2 fans. I actually like ATYCLB a lot and I think it's a very special album... the problems started after that ;D. HTDAAB should never have won so many grammies but the timing of the album was quite good.

U2 won 8 Grammy awards for HTDAAB and Steve Lillywhite won a grammy award as producer of the year for his work on the album, which makes How To Dismantle And Atomic Bomb the album to win the most Grammy awards in history with 9!

In my opinion, its U2's best album with the exception of Achtung Baby and the Joshua Tree.

The Pop album is a failed album in that the band needed to spend at least 6 more months working on it, to include re-writing some of the songs as well as re-recording others. It was an unfinished album rushed out the door to meet a tour deadline. The band have admitted that and have said its a mistake they would never make again.

Yet Pop is a far superior album to HTDAAB in many U2 fans opinion. HTDAAB recently scored the lowest of all U2 albums in a poll done on Interference where U2 fans were asked to rate all the bands songs (1-10). I wont deny that its a more popular album in the general population though. The fact that it won 9 grammy's makes very little sense to me, but then again the grammies does not exactly have a reputation for hitting the mark.

Well, the Grammy academy has 17,000 members who vote. They all work in the music industry and are involve in the production of music. Artist, song writers, producers, studio engineers, musicians. They are all involved in actually making music. So, yep, I think their vote does matter. It is definitely an informed vote from people involved in making music. A poll of a hundred people on interference.com is a tiny section, of people who are fans of U2. As a matter of fact, I think there were only 20 or 30 people involved in the poll your referencing from interference which is not a representative sample of anything.

Hell, if U2 did a club tour for die hard fans, the 30 people who took that poll wouldn't even be significant fraction of the people they would play to.

By the way, if you don't think How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb deserved to win album of the year, which album do you think did deserve to win in the October 2004 to October 2005 time period?

The members of U2 prefer the work they did on How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb by a mile. Look at how often they play songs from that album live as compared to Pop. Bono even said its their best album next to Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby. The members of U2 generally view the Pop/Popmart era has a mistake and flawed period in the bands history. Again, Pop was not finished, it was rushed out the door to meet a tour deadline. What's strange is the small segment of people who are such fans of a half baked piece of work.

Offline Rasmus

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Re: U2 drops from #1 to #13 in top 200 billboard
« Reply #39 on: April 03, 2018, 12:27:27 PM »
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Its not a bad album... the problem is that U2 were an extraordinary band for the first 20 years of their career and all new releases from them will be compared to the masterpieces from the 80's and 90's.

Much of the bands best music has been recorded in the 00s and 10s. "Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own", Miracle Drug, Walk On, Kite, Winter, and Mercy are all songs that  I consider to be in the 20 greatest U2 songs of all time.

Different strokes for different folks 8). Of the songs you mention I would only consider Kite to be a top 20 contender and it would have to fight quite hard to get it ;D.

Another thing, Pop and Zooropa have never really been considered Masterpieces. All That You Can't Leave Behind and How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb on the other hand have 15 Grammy award wins between them and have sold a combined 23 million copies worldwide. Most people consider them masterpieces which they are.

Maybe the general public who mainly know U2 by their big singles (With or Without You, Beautiful Day, Vertigo) but the consensus is different amongst U2 fans. I actually like ATYCLB a lot and I think it's a very special album... the problems started after that ;D. HTDAAB should never have won so many grammies but the timing of the album was quite good.

U2 won 8 Grammy awards for HTDAAB and Steve Lillywhite won a grammy award as producer of the year for his work on the album, which makes How To Dismantle And Atomic Bomb the album to win the most Grammy awards in history with 9!

In my opinion, its U2's best album with the exception of Achtung Baby and the Joshua Tree.

The Pop album is a failed album in that the band needed to spend at least 6 more months working on it, to include re-writing some of the songs as well as re-recording others. It was an unfinished album rushed out the door to meet a tour deadline. The band have admitted that and have said its a mistake they would never make again.

Yet Pop is a far superior album to HTDAAB in many U2 fans opinion. HTDAAB recently scored the lowest of all U2 albums in a poll done on Interference where U2 fans were asked to rate all the bands songs (1-10). I wont deny that its a more popular album in the general population though. The fact that it won 9 grammy's makes very little sense to me, but then again the grammies does not exactly have a reputation for hitting the mark.

Well, the Grammy academy has 17,000 members who vote. They all work in the music industry and are involve in the production of music. Artist, song writers, producers, studio engineers, musicians. They are all involved in actually making music. So, yep, I think their vote does matter. It is definitely an informed vote from people involved in making music. A poll of a hundred people on interference.com is a tiny section, of people who are fans of U2. As a matter of fact, I think there were only 20 or 30 people involved in the poll your referencing from interference which is not a representative sample of anything.

Hell, if U2 did a club tour for die hard fans, the 30 people who took that poll wouldn't even be significant fraction of the people they would play to.

By the way, if you don't think How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb deserved to win album of the year, which album do you think did deserve to win in the October 2004 to October 2005 time period?

The members of U2 prefer the work they did on How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb by a mile. Look at how often they play songs from that album live as compared to Pop. Bono even said its their best album next to Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby. The members of U2 generally view the Pop/Popmart era has a mistake and flawed period in the bands history. Again, Pop was not finished, it was rushed out the door to meet a tour deadline. What's strange is the small segment of people who are such fans of a half baked piece of work.

50-100 people who are from a hardcore U2 fan site is more representative of hardcore U2 fans opinions than 17.000 people who are from the general public. The fact that a jury is from the music industry means little to nothing as music is taste and not science. I can mention a lot of examples where the jury has been completely ignorant especially in cases such as heavy music where they just dont seem to have a single clue. The members of U2 might prefer HTDAAB because it did better commercially and thus attract more people to their live shows. Also I dont agree with a lot of musical/political decisions that U2 makes these days so no surprise that I dont agree with them on this one either. BTW Bono has stated several times that PopMart is the tour he is most proud of so its not so clear cut.

I dont remember many albums from the era 2004-05 which might explain why Bomb won. Just based on memory I think my favorite album from 2005 was by Robyn. Also Gorillaz and Kanye I think have more iconic albums from that era.

Offline Luzita

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Re: U2 drops from #1 to #13 in top 200 billboard
« Reply #40 on: April 03, 2018, 12:54:13 PM »
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Its not a bad album... the problem is that U2 were an extraordinary band for the first 20 years of their career and all new releases from them will be compared to the masterpieces from the 80's and 90's.

Much of the bands best music has been recorded in the 00s and 10s. "Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own", Miracle Drug, Walk On, Kite, Winter, and Mercy are all songs that  I consider to be in the 20 greatest U2 songs of all time.

Different strokes for different folks 8). Of the songs you mention I would only consider Kite to be a top 20 contender and it would have to fight quite hard to get it ;D.

Another thing, Pop and Zooropa have never really been considered Masterpieces. All That You Can't Leave Behind and How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb on the other hand have 15 Grammy award wins between them and have sold a combined 23 million copies worldwide. Most people consider them masterpieces which they are.

Maybe the general public who mainly know U2 by their big singles (With or Without You, Beautiful Day, Vertigo) but the consensus is different amongst U2 fans. I actually like ATYCLB a lot and I think it's a very special album... the problems started after that ;D. HTDAAB should never have won so many grammies but the timing of the album was quite good.

U2 won 8 Grammy awards for HTDAAB and Steve Lillywhite won a grammy award as producer of the year for his work on the album, which makes How To Dismantle And Atomic Bomb the album to win the most Grammy awards in history with 9!

In my opinion, its U2's best album with the exception of Achtung Baby and the Joshua Tree.

The Pop album is a failed album in that the band needed to spend at least 6 more months working on it, to include re-writing some of the songs as well as re-recording others. It was an unfinished album rushed out the door to meet a tour deadline. The band have admitted that and have said its a mistake they would never make again.

Yet Pop is a far superior album to HTDAAB in many U2 fans opinion. HTDAAB recently scored the lowest of all U2 albums in a poll done on Interference where U2 fans were asked to rate all the bands songs (1-10). I wont deny that its a more popular album in the general population though. The fact that it won 9 grammy's makes very little sense to me, but then again the grammies does not exactly have a reputation for hitting the mark.

Well, the Grammy academy has 17,000 members who vote. They all work in the music industry and are involve in the production of music. Artist, song writers, producers, studio engineers, musicians. They are all involved in actually making music. So, yep, I think their vote does matter. It is definitely an informed vote from people involved in making music. A poll of a hundred people on interference.com is a tiny section, of people who are fans of U2. As a matter of fact, I think there were only 20 or 30 people involved in the poll your referencing from interference which is not a representative sample of anything.

Hell, if U2 did a club tour for die hard fans, the 30 people who took that poll wouldn't even be significant fraction of the people they would play to.

By the way, if you don't think How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb deserved to win album of the year, which album do you think did deserve to win in the October 2004 to October 2005 time period?

The members of U2 prefer the work they did on How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb by a mile. Look at how often they play songs from that album live as compared to Pop. Bono even said its their best album next to Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby. The members of U2 generally view the Pop/Popmart era has a mistake and flawed period in the bands history. Again, Pop was not finished, it was rushed out the door to meet a tour deadline. What's strange is the small segment of people who are such fans of a half baked piece of work.

50-100 people who are from a hardcore U2 fan site is more representative of hardcore U2 fans opinions than 17.000 people who are from the general public. The fact that a jury is from the music industry means little to nothing as music is taste and not science. I can mention a lot of examples where the jury has been completely ignorant especially in cases such as heavy music where they just dont seem to have a single clue. The members of U2 might prefer HTDAAB because it did better commercially and thus attract more people to their live shows. Also I dont agree with a lot of musical/political decisions that U2 makes these days so no surprise that I dont agree with them on this one either. BTW Bono has stated several times that PopMart is the tour he is most proud of so its not so clear cut.

I dont remember many albums from the era 2004-05 which might explain why Bomb won. Just based on memory I think my favorite album from 2005 was by Robyn. Also Gorillaz and Kanye I think have more iconic albums from that era.

It may be true that music industry people are not very representative of hardcore U2 fans, but the @U2 survey participants are, and the sample size is MUCH bigger than for the Interference poll.

When you say 50-100 people from a hardcore U2 fan site, I presume you're talking about the Interference poll, but that had 28 participants, not 50-100.

On the other hand, the @U2 survey question about least favorite album had 3865 respondents. Based on that, Pop is more unpopular than HTDAAB.

You clearly prefer Pop to HTDAAB and you are totally entitled to your opinion, but you should not mistake your preferences for the majority opinion of U2 fans, even of hardcore U2 fans.

Offline Rasmus

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Re: U2 drops from #1 to #13 in top 200 billboard
« Reply #41 on: April 03, 2018, 01:30:07 PM »
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Its not a bad album... the problem is that U2 were an extraordinary band for the first 20 years of their career and all new releases from them will be compared to the masterpieces from the 80's and 90's.

Much of the bands best music has been recorded in the 00s and 10s. "Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own", Miracle Drug, Walk On, Kite, Winter, and Mercy are all songs that  I consider to be in the 20 greatest U2 songs of all time.

Different strokes for different folks 8). Of the songs you mention I would only consider Kite to be a top 20 contender and it would have to fight quite hard to get it ;D.

Another thing, Pop and Zooropa have never really been considered Masterpieces. All That You Can't Leave Behind and How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb on the other hand have 15 Grammy award wins between them and have sold a combined 23 million copies worldwide. Most people consider them masterpieces which they are.

Maybe the general public who mainly know U2 by their big singles (With or Without You, Beautiful Day, Vertigo) but the consensus is different amongst U2 fans. I actually like ATYCLB a lot and I think it's a very special album... the problems started after that ;D. HTDAAB should never have won so many grammies but the timing of the album was quite good.

U2 won 8 Grammy awards for HTDAAB and Steve Lillywhite won a grammy award as producer of the year for his work on the album, which makes How To Dismantle And Atomic Bomb the album to win the most Grammy awards in history with 9!

In my opinion, its U2's best album with the exception of Achtung Baby and the Joshua Tree.

The Pop album is a failed album in that the band needed to spend at least 6 more months working on it, to include re-writing some of the songs as well as re-recording others. It was an unfinished album rushed out the door to meet a tour deadline. The band have admitted that and have said its a mistake they would never make again.

Yet Pop is a far superior album to HTDAAB in many U2 fans opinion. HTDAAB recently scored the lowest of all U2 albums in a poll done on Interference where U2 fans were asked to rate all the bands songs (1-10). I wont deny that its a more popular album in the general population though. The fact that it won 9 grammy's makes very little sense to me, but then again the grammies does not exactly have a reputation for hitting the mark.

Well, the Grammy academy has 17,000 members who vote. They all work in the music industry and are involve in the production of music. Artist, song writers, producers, studio engineers, musicians. They are all involved in actually making music. So, yep, I think their vote does matter. It is definitely an informed vote from people involved in making music. A poll of a hundred people on interference.com is a tiny section, of people who are fans of U2. As a matter of fact, I think there were only 20 or 30 people involved in the poll your referencing from interference which is not a representative sample of anything.

Hell, if U2 did a club tour for die hard fans, the 30 people who took that poll wouldn't even be significant fraction of the people they would play to.

By the way, if you don't think How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb deserved to win album of the year, which album do you think did deserve to win in the October 2004 to October 2005 time period?

The members of U2 prefer the work they did on How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb by a mile. Look at how often they play songs from that album live as compared to Pop. Bono even said its their best album next to Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby. The members of U2 generally view the Pop/Popmart era has a mistake and flawed period in the bands history. Again, Pop was not finished, it was rushed out the door to meet a tour deadline. What's strange is the small segment of people who are such fans of a half baked piece of work.

50-100 people who are from a hardcore U2 fan site is more representative of hardcore U2 fans opinions than 17.000 people who are from the general public. The fact that a jury is from the music industry means little to nothing as music is taste and not science. I can mention a lot of examples where the jury has been completely ignorant especially in cases such as heavy music where they just dont seem to have a single clue. The members of U2 might prefer HTDAAB because it did better commercially and thus attract more people to their live shows. Also I dont agree with a lot of musical/political decisions that U2 makes these days so no surprise that I dont agree with them on this one either. BTW Bono has stated several times that PopMart is the tour he is most proud of so its not so clear cut.

I dont remember many albums from the era 2004-05 which might explain why Bomb won. Just based on memory I think my favorite album from 2005 was by Robyn. Also Gorillaz and Kanye I think have more iconic albums from that era.

It may be true that music industry people are not very representative of hardcore U2 fans, but the @U2 survey participants are, and the sample size is MUCH bigger than for the Interference poll.

When you say 50-100 people from a hardcore U2 fan site, I presume you're talking about the Interference poll, but that had 28 participants, not 50-100.

On the other hand, the @U2 survey question about least favorite album had 3865 respondents. Based on that, Pop is more unpopular than HTDAAB.

You clearly prefer Pop to HTDAAB and you are totally entitled to your opinion, but you should not mistake your preferences for the majority opinion of U2 fans, even of hardcore U2 fans.

I never said the majority of U2 fans share my opinions - thats your words not mine. I said its a different consensus among U2 fans which it quite clearly is - a lot of U2 fans rate Pop higher than HTDAAB and using arguments about sales figures and grammy wins is not valid measure of musical quality in my opinion. I wasn't even the one bringing Pop into the conversation - i commented on SOE ;D

EDIT: I also just looked at the survey you mention. Could only find from 2016 so i guess thats the latest version. As FAvorite U2 album HTDAAB has 1,6% and Pop has 3,0%. As Least Favorite U2 album HTDAAB has 5,3% and Pop has 9,08%. As Most Underrated U2 album HTDAAB has 4,35% and Pop has 30,92% (and wins the category by a huge margin). So I dont agree with your statement that is solely based on the category of least favorite - that is a quite biased way at looking at the numbers.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2018, 01:53:14 PM by Rasmus »

Offline Luzita

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Re: U2 drops from #1 to #13 in top 200 billboard
« Reply #42 on: April 03, 2018, 01:55:07 PM »
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I never said the majority of U2 fans share my opinions - thats your words not mine. I said its a different consensus among U2 fans which it quite clearly is - a lot of U2 fans rate Pop higher than HTDAAB and using arguments about sales figures and grammy wins is not valid measure of musical quality in my opinion. I wasn't even the one bringing Pop into the conversation - i commented on SOE ;D

You brought Pop into the conversation when you said this:

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Yet Pop is a far superior album to HTDAAB in many U2 fans opinion. HTDAAB recently scored the lowest of all U2 albums in a poll done on Interference where U2 fans were asked to rate all the bands songs (1-10). I wont deny that its a more popular album in the general population though. The fact that it won 9 grammy's makes very little sense to me, but then again the grammies does not exactly have a reputation for hitting the mark.

Granted, you never directly said you prefer Pop to HTDAAB. That was an assumption on my part. But you did put the 80s and 90s above the 21st century. Personally, the only 90s album I would rate as definitely superior to their 21st century output is Achtung Baby.

I agreed with you that Grammy voting isn't necessarily representative of hardcore U2 fans. But the @U2 survey is and it seems to show the consensus with regard to HTDAAB vs. Pop isn't quite what you think.

As for musical quality, neither Grammy wins nor fan popularity is necessarily a valid measure as that is a very subjective thing.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2018, 02:25:19 PM by Luzita »

Offline Luzita

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Re: U2 drops from #1 to #13 in top 200 billboard
« Reply #43 on: April 03, 2018, 02:24:11 PM »
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Its not a bad album... the problem is that U2 were an extraordinary band for the first 20 years of their career and all new releases from them will be compared to the masterpieces from the 80's and 90's.

Much of the bands best music has been recorded in the 00s and 10s. "Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own", Miracle Drug, Walk On, Kite, Winter, and Mercy are all songs that  I consider to be in the 20 greatest U2 songs of all time.

Different strokes for different folks 8). Of the songs you mention I would only consider Kite to be a top 20 contender and it would have to fight quite hard to get it ;D.

Another thing, Pop and Zooropa have never really been considered Masterpieces. All That You Can't Leave Behind and How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb on the other hand have 15 Grammy award wins between them and have sold a combined 23 million copies worldwide. Most people consider them masterpieces which they are.

Maybe the general public who mainly know U2 by their big singles (With or Without You, Beautiful Day, Vertigo) but the consensus is different amongst U2 fans. I actually like ATYCLB a lot and I think it's a very special album... the problems started after that ;D. HTDAAB should never have won so many grammies but the timing of the album was quite good.

U2 won 8 Grammy awards for HTDAAB and Steve Lillywhite won a grammy award as producer of the year for his work on the album, which makes How To Dismantle And Atomic Bomb the album to win the most Grammy awards in history with 9!

In my opinion, its U2's best album with the exception of Achtung Baby and the Joshua Tree.

The Pop album is a failed album in that the band needed to spend at least 6 more months working on it, to include re-writing some of the songs as well as re-recording others. It was an unfinished album rushed out the door to meet a tour deadline. The band have admitted that and have said its a mistake they would never make again.

Yet Pop is a far superior album to HTDAAB in many U2 fans opinion. HTDAAB recently scored the lowest of all U2 albums in a poll done on Interference where U2 fans were asked to rate all the bands songs (1-10). I wont deny that its a more popular album in the general population though. The fact that it won 9 grammy's makes very little sense to me, but then again the grammies does not exactly have a reputation for hitting the mark.

Well, the Grammy academy has 17,000 members who vote. They all work in the music industry and are involve in the production of music. Artist, song writers, producers, studio engineers, musicians. They are all involved in actually making music. So, yep, I think their vote does matter. It is definitely an informed vote from people involved in making music. A poll of a hundred people on interference.com is a tiny section, of people who are fans of U2. As a matter of fact, I think there were only 20 or 30 people involved in the poll your referencing from interference which is not a representative sample of anything.

Hell, if U2 did a club tour for die hard fans, the 30 people who took that poll wouldn't even be significant fraction of the people they would play to.

By the way, if you don't think How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb deserved to win album of the year, which album do you think did deserve to win in the October 2004 to October 2005 time period?

The members of U2 prefer the work they did on How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb by a mile. Look at how often they play songs from that album live as compared to Pop. Bono even said its their best album next to Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby. The members of U2 generally view the Pop/Popmart era has a mistake and flawed period in the bands history. Again, Pop was not finished, it was rushed out the door to meet a tour deadline. What's strange is the small segment of people who are such fans of a half baked piece of work.

50-100 people who are from a hardcore U2 fan site is more representative of hardcore U2 fans opinions than 17.000 people who are from the general public. The fact that a jury is from the music industry means little to nothing as music is taste and not science. I can mention a lot of examples where the jury has been completely ignorant especially in cases such as heavy music where they just dont seem to have a single clue. The members of U2 might prefer HTDAAB because it did better commercially and thus attract more people to their live shows. Also I dont agree with a lot of musical/political decisions that U2 makes these days so no surprise that I dont agree with them on this one either. BTW Bono has stated several times that PopMart is the tour he is most proud of so its not so clear cut.

I dont remember many albums from the era 2004-05 which might explain why Bomb won. Just based on memory I think my favorite album from 2005 was by Robyn. Also Gorillaz and Kanye I think have more iconic albums from that era.

It may be true that music industry people are not very representative of hardcore U2 fans, but the @U2 survey participants are, and the sample size is MUCH bigger than for the Interference poll.

When you say 50-100 people from a hardcore U2 fan site, I presume you're talking about the Interference poll, but that had 28 participants, not 50-100.

On the other hand, the @U2 survey question about least favorite album had 3865 respondents. Based on that, Pop is more unpopular than HTDAAB.

You clearly prefer Pop to HTDAAB and you are totally entitled to your opinion, but you should not mistake your preferences for the majority opinion of U2 fans, even of hardcore U2 fans.

I never said the majority of U2 fans share my opinions - thats your words not mine. I said its a different consensus among U2 fans which it quite clearly is - a lot of U2 fans rate Pop higher than HTDAAB and using arguments about sales figures and grammy wins is not valid measure of musical quality in my opinion. I wasn't even the one bringing Pop into the conversation - i commented on SOE ;D

EDIT: I also just looked at the survey you mention. Could only find from 2016 so i guess thats the latest version. As FAvorite U2 album HTDAAB has 1,6% and Pop has 3,0%. As Least Favorite U2 album HTDAAB has 5,3% and Pop has 9,08%. As Most Underrated U2 album HTDAAB has 4,35% and Pop has 30,92% (and wins the category by a huge margin). So I dont agree with your statement that is solely based on the category of least favorite - that is a quite biased way at looking at the numbers.

The reason that I looked at the least favorite album question is because you brought up the Interference poll, and said that HTDAAB being rated least favorite on average (not counting OS1) by 28 people is evidence of the consensus among hardcore U2 fans. That is such a small sample it doesn't necessarily mean much. I looked at the same question in a survey that includes thousands of people, which is a FAR less biased way of looking at the numbers.

You're right that the other questions in the survey are interesting as well. Pop is more likely to be rated best album than HTDAAB, while also being more likely to be rated worst album. I think that's an indication that Pop is a polarizing album, but with more hardcore fans hating it than loving it. The results of the other question, about most underrated album, are probably related to that. The minority that likes the album thinks it is underrated by the majority that dislikes it.



« Last Edit: April 03, 2018, 02:26:57 PM by Luzita »

Offline wons

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Re: U2 drops from #1 to #13 in top 200 billboard
« Reply #44 on: April 03, 2018, 02:28:47 PM »
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Its not a bad album... the problem is that U2 were an extraordinary band for the first 20 years of their career and all new releases from them will be compared to the masterpieces from the 80's and 90's.

Much of the bands best music has been recorded in the 00s and 10s. "Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own", Miracle Drug, Walk On, Kite, Winter, and Mercy are all songs that  I consider to be in the 20 greatest U2 songs of all time.

Different strokes for different folks 8). Of the songs you mention I would only consider Kite to be a top 20 contender and it would have to fight quite hard to get it ;D.

Another thing, Pop and Zooropa have never really been considered Masterpieces. All That You Can't Leave Behind and How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb on the other hand have 15 Grammy award wins between them and have sold a combined 23 million copies worldwide. Most people consider them masterpieces which they are.

Maybe the general public who mainly know U2 by their big singles (With or Without You, Beautiful Day, Vertigo) but the consensus is different amongst U2 fans. I actually like ATYCLB a lot and I think it's a very special album... the problems started after that ;D. HTDAAB should never have won so many grammies but the timing of the album was quite good.

U2 won 8 Grammy awards for HTDAAB and Steve Lillywhite won a grammy award as producer of the year for his work on the album, which makes How To Dismantle And Atomic Bomb the album to win the most Grammy awards in history with 9!

In my opinion, its U2's best album with the exception of Achtung Baby and the Joshua Tree.

The Pop album is a failed album in that the band needed to spend at least 6 more months working on it, to include re-writing some of the songs as well as re-recording others. It was an unfinished album rushed out the door to meet a tour deadline. The band have admitted that and have said its a mistake they would never make again.

Yet Pop is a far superior album to HTDAAB in many U2 fans opinion. HTDAAB recently scored the lowest of all U2 albums in a poll done on Interference where U2 fans were asked to rate all the bands songs (1-10). I wont deny that its a more popular album in the general population though. The fact that it won 9 grammy's makes very little sense to me, but then again the grammies does not exactly have a reputation for hitting the mark.

Well, the Grammy academy has 17,000 members who vote. They all work in the music industry and are involve in the production of music. Artist, song writers, producers, studio engineers, musicians. They are all involved in actually making music. So, yep, I think their vote does matter. It is definitely an informed vote from people involved in making music. A poll of a hundred people on interference.com is a tiny section, of people who are fans of U2. As a matter of fact, I think there were only 20 or 30 people involved in the poll your referencing from interference which is not a representative sample of anything.

Hell, if U2 did a club tour for die hard fans, the 30 people who took that poll wouldn't even be significant fraction of the people they would play to.

By the way, if you don't think How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb deserved to win album of the year, which album do you think did deserve to win in the October 2004 to October 2005 time period?

The members of U2 prefer the work they did on How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb by a mile. Look at how often they play songs from that album live as compared to Pop. Bono even said its their best album next to Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby. The members of U2 generally view the Pop/Popmart era has a mistake and flawed period in the bands history. Again, Pop was not finished, it was rushed out the door to meet a tour deadline. What's strange is the small segment of people who are such fans of a half baked piece of work.

50-100 people who are from a hardcore U2 fan site is more representative of hardcore U2 fans opinions than 17.000 people who are from the general public. The fact that a jury is from the music industry means little to nothing as music is taste and not science. I can mention a lot of examples where the jury has been completely ignorant especially in cases such as heavy music where they just dont seem to have a single clue. The members of U2 might prefer HTDAAB because it did better commercially and thus attract more people to their live shows. Also I dont agree with a lot of musical/political decisions that U2 makes these days so no surprise that I dont agree with them on this one either. BTW Bono has stated several times that PopMart is the tour he is most proud of so its not so clear cut.

I dont remember many albums from the era 2004-05 which might explain why Bomb won. Just based on memory I think my favorite album from 2005 was by Robyn. Also Gorillaz and Kanye I think have more iconic albums from that era.

Those 17,000 people are not members of the general public, they are members of the academy. You only get to be a member of the academy if your actually involved with the production of music, like writing a song, producing album for an artist, an artist in the music industry, a recording studio engineer etc. Those are objective opinions from people involved in the creation of music for a living. Its an objective and unique voice and it does mean something to win an award from the academy. 28 people from a U2 fan website is not really representative of anything.

Very telling that you like Robyn, Gorilaz and Kanye over U2's masterpiece HTDAAB. I'm glad the academy felt differently. Looks like they may be more fans of U2 than some who allege to be hardcore fans.