Author Topic: Songs Of Experience sales in the United States  (Read 12435 times)

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Offline wons

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Re: Songs Of Experience sales in the United States
« Reply #255 on: July 18, 2018, 09:44:09 PM »
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Thanks, wons.  These are sobering stats.  I have been fascinated by this thread because it offers a glimpse of how many of "us" there are out there.  A dwindling amount, it appears.

My pleasure! So 319,000 people purchased the album in either a physical or digital format. A much smaller group of people either streamed or puchased individual tracks from the album equivalent to maybe another 30,000 albums sold. Billboard considers the sale of 10 individual track downloads to = One album sold. Billboard considers 1,500 streams = to One Album sold.

The POP album was considered a poor seller back in 1997 by U2's standards and industry standards at the time. But at least everyone who purchased a ticket for POPMART purchased one copy of the POP album. I'm not exactly sure about this, but it seems like only 1/2 or 1/3 of the people who went to see the Experience Tour purchased the album or listened to it. That seems odd considering that most of the fanbase knows a tour like this is not a nostalgia event but is about the new album primarily.

Wons,

Iíve asked this before but you never answered.  By default, didnít EVERYONE who bought a ticket for E&I buy the CD as well?  Or are you saying the 319,000 includes those sales and there were 400K to 600K who bought tickets.   Meaning only 1/3 to 1/2 redeemed their included CD,  less the people who didnít buy tickets but bought the CD.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No.

Only a fraction of the people who purchased TICKETS for the tour got the album in a digital or physical format FROM their TICKET PURCHASE. That number, is then added to sales of the album that occurred, 1. through online stores for digital formats and physical formats and 2.  people who went to a physical store to pick up a physical copy of the album.

So album sales came from three sources:
1. Album/ticket bundle
2. online sales of digital and physical formats
3. Physical stores selling a physical copy of the album

All 3 of those combine for a total of 319,000 in sales.

The number of tickets sold for the tour in the United States was 438,059. I don't know the exact figure, but it could be as little as 50,000 of ticket buyers redeeming the album and getting in digital or physical format with the purchase of the ticket.

One important thing is, you could NOT use the ticket purchase to get DELUXE album version of the album. The only way to get the DELUXE version of the album was to purchase it from an online store or a physical store.

Personally, I'm responsible for 3 of the albums in the 319,000 album total since I purchased the DELUXE version of the album at the local record store and then redeemed each of the two tickets I purchased for a copy of the album. The copy of the album offered is just the regular album with only 13 tracks. I kept one and gave the other one away.


Its not clear what the exact breakdown of the 319,000 is in terms of what and how people got their albums. I might be able to dig up some of that data for the first week of sales which were 180,000, more than half the total. The breaking down between physical vs digital formats is probably 50/50.


I hope that makes it clear.

So, to me, that just indicates that my preferences are not uncommon.  There are a lot of people out there that have no use for a physical disc.  I canít remember if my ticket offered a digital download or CD, but I think it was just CD.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Every person who purchased a ticket had the option to get the album in digital format or physical format. All sales are physical and digital combined. My argument here has NEVER been about CD's(which you mysteriously continue to talk about) or specifically any physical product. A digital album sold is the same as a physical cd or record sold. What is not the same is streaming.

Your preference though is to stream the music which is NOT the same as purchasing the album in a digital format. Purchasing the album, regardless of format is all the same. Streaming is an entirely different thing.

90% of the people, which does not include YOU, purchased this album in either a digital or physical format. Your group, the streamers, comprise less than 10% of the people who have listened to the album.

So when it comes to U2 fans who have listened to Songs Of Experience, your preference for streaming as opposed to purchasing the album, is very uncommon.

I do realize digital copy and CD is the same as far as sales.  Thatís why I asked if a digital copy or CD was offered with the ticket.

So you have your answer then donít you?  A large percentage of the fans who went to the show are uninterested in the new album.  I donít really find that surprising.  Most people that go to shows like U2 are going for legacy reasons.  The latest album has not received alot of mainstream attention.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

For most of U2's career, the new album and whether it was successful or not played the primary factor in whether the tour was a success. U2 had their first downturn with the POPMART tour and it was because the POP album was poorly received. The next three albums and did very well though and so did their tours. This is the first tour U2 has ever done where the number of fans who purchased or listened to the album was less than the number of fans that purchased a ticket for the tour. For POP and POPMART it was one for one. But typically, album sales have always been greater than ticket sales.

So unfortunately it appears that the legacy factor is for the first time dominating things over the new album which is not good news for the band. It shows that overall interest in the band is dwindling. While some "legacy acts" do record business, most get stuck playing the local farm show or town festival. Its not the ideal place to be. The ideal is having new music that brings in new fans, old fans, and everything in between + the legacy factor. That is when the business incredible or record breaking like on the Vertigo Tour and the 360 tour.

Still, selling 319,000 copies of an album in 2017/2018 is not bad at all. Justin Timberlake's latest has only done a little over 400,000. The sad fact is most people are not even listening to albums in any format anymore. Their just listening to individual songs, a couple from this artist, a couple from that artist. Technology has killed the album regardless of the format it is in. That's not good for artist in the future, because individual songs are not a very good basis for building fandom and getting fans to spend $100 dollars a ticket or more to come to a show. As the public becomes less invested in any particular artist, they become less likely to support concert performances. Why go see a band or artist when you only like or listen to two of their songs? The public is starting to place LESS VALUE on music in general, and even less value on the artist that produce the music.

But U2 are an album band! They always have been. That means they produce albums that from first track to last, are fantastic with no filler. It takes incredible talent to be able to do that. People use to appreciate that, but not anymore it seems.

Still, I hope U2 do not lose heart and realize that they still have a very dedicated following that is interested in their new music and generally prefer the album/tour cycle that is based around new music which is what the band has always been about.



To be honest, though, Iím not really following what all of this data and analysis is supposed to telling me, or how Iím supposed to react.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

This is one of the elements of the business side of U2 which naturally does have some impact on their career and the choices they make in the future. Its also interesting to look at and compare with how other artist are doing just for that reason alone. By clicking on and reading this thread, you've at least showed some interest in the subject.

Offline Tortuga

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Re: Songs Of Experience sales in the United States
« Reply #256 on: July 19, 2018, 08:58:11 AM »
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Thanks, wons.  These are sobering stats.  I have been fascinated by this thread because it offers a glimpse of how many of "us" there are out there.  A dwindling amount, it appears.

My pleasure! So 319,000 people purchased the album in either a physical or digital format. A much smaller group of people either streamed or puchased individual tracks from the album equivalent to maybe another 30,000 albums sold. Billboard considers the sale of 10 individual track downloads to = One album sold. Billboard considers 1,500 streams = to One Album sold.

The POP album was considered a poor seller back in 1997 by U2's standards and industry standards at the time. But at least everyone who purchased a ticket for POPMART purchased one copy of the POP album. I'm not exactly sure about this, but it seems like only 1/2 or 1/3 of the people who went to see the Experience Tour purchased the album or listened to it. That seems odd considering that most of the fanbase knows a tour like this is not a nostalgia event but is about the new album primarily.

Wons,

Iíve asked this before but you never answered.  By default, didnít EVERYONE who bought a ticket for E&I buy the CD as well?  Or are you saying the 319,000 includes those sales and there were 400K to 600K who bought tickets.   Meaning only 1/3 to 1/2 redeemed their included CD,  less the people who didnít buy tickets but bought the CD.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No.

Only a fraction of the people who purchased TICKETS for the tour got the album in a digital or physical format FROM their TICKET PURCHASE. That number, is then added to sales of the album that occurred, 1. through online stores for digital formats and physical formats and 2.  people who went to a physical store to pick up a physical copy of the album.

So album sales came from three sources:
1. Album/ticket bundle
2. online sales of digital and physical formats
3. Physical stores selling a physical copy of the album

All 3 of those combine for a total of 319,000 in sales.

The number of tickets sold for the tour in the United States was 438,059. I don't know the exact figure, but it could be as little as 50,000 of ticket buyers redeeming the album and getting in digital or physical format with the purchase of the ticket.

One important thing is, you could NOT use the ticket purchase to get DELUXE album version of the album. The only way to get the DELUXE version of the album was to purchase it from an online store or a physical store.

Personally, I'm responsible for 3 of the albums in the 319,000 album total since I purchased the DELUXE version of the album at the local record store and then redeemed each of the two tickets I purchased for a copy of the album. The copy of the album offered is just the regular album with only 13 tracks. I kept one and gave the other one away.


Its not clear what the exact breakdown of the 319,000 is in terms of what and how people got their albums. I might be able to dig up some of that data for the first week of sales which were 180,000, more than half the total. The breaking down between physical vs digital formats is probably 50/50.


I hope that makes it clear.

So, to me, that just indicates that my preferences are not uncommon.  There are a lot of people out there that have no use for a physical disc.  I canít remember if my ticket offered a digital download or CD, but I think it was just CD.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Every person who purchased a ticket had the option to get the album in digital format or physical format. All sales are physical and digital combined. My argument here has NEVER been about CD's(which you mysteriously continue to talk about) or specifically any physical product. A digital album sold is the same as a physical cd or record sold. What is not the same is streaming.

Your preference though is to stream the music which is NOT the same as purchasing the album in a digital format. Purchasing the album, regardless of format is all the same. Streaming is an entirely different thing.

90% of the people, which does not include YOU, purchased this album in either a digital or physical format. Your group, the streamers, comprise less than 10% of the people who have listened to the album.

So when it comes to U2 fans who have listened to Songs Of Experience, your preference for streaming as opposed to purchasing the album, is very uncommon.

I do realize digital copy and CD is the same as far as sales.  Thatís why I asked if a digital copy or CD was offered with the ticket.

So you have your answer then donít you?  A large percentage of the fans who went to the show are uninterested in the new album.  I donít really find that surprising.  Most people that go to shows like U2 are going for legacy reasons.  The latest album has not received alot of mainstream attention.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

For most of U2's career, the new album and whether it was successful or not played the primary factor in whether the tour was a success. U2 had their first downturn with the POPMART tour and it was because the POP album was poorly received. The next three albums and did very well though and so did their tours. This is the first tour U2 has ever done where the number of fans who purchased or listened to the album was less than the number of fans that purchased a ticket for the tour. For POP and POPMART it was one for one. But typically, album sales have always been greater than ticket sales.

So unfortunately it appears that the legacy factor is for the first time dominating things over the new album which is not good news for the band. It shows that overall interest in the band is dwindling. While some "legacy acts" do record business, most get stuck playing the local farm show or town festival. Its not the ideal place to be. The ideal is having new music that brings in new fans, old fans, and everything in between + the legacy factor. That is when the business incredible or record breaking like on the Vertigo Tour and the 360 tour.

Still, selling 319,000 copies of an album in 2017/2018 is not bad at all. Justin Timberlake's latest has only done a little over 400,000. The sad fact is most people are not even listening to albums in any format anymore. Their just listening to individual songs, a couple from this artist, a couple from that artist. Technology has killed the album regardless of the format it is in. That's not good for artist in the future, because individual songs are not a very good basis for building fandom and getting fans to spend $100 dollars a ticket or more to come to a show. As the public becomes less invested in any particular artist, they become less likely to support concert performances. Why go see a band or artist when you only like or listen to two of their songs? The public is starting to place LESS VALUE on music in general, and even less value on the artist that produce the music.

But U2 are an album band! They always have been. That means they produce albums that from first track to last, are fantastic with no filler. It takes incredible talent to be able to do that. People use to appreciate that, but not anymore it seems.

Still, I hope U2 do not lose heart and realize that they still have a very dedicated following that is interested in their new music and generally prefer the album/tour cycle that is based around new music which is what the band has always been about.



To be honest, though, Iím not really following what all of this data and analysis is supposed to telling me, or how Iím supposed to react.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

This is one of the elements of the business side of U2 which naturally does have some impact on their career and the choices they make in the future. Its also interesting to look at and compare with how other artist are doing just for that reason alone. By clicking on and reading this thread, you've at least showed some interest in the subject.

Because this thread seems to be as much about the state of the music industry as it is SOE sales,  I would be interested in what others (wons too, but not just wons) think about it.  Here are my thoughts.

There has been some great art created in the era of the music industry but lets face it, the commercialization of music has produced, and is still producing, alot of crap that I wouldnít call art.  I like the idea of music regaining more of what it used to be, where it was a local community thing.  The status quo where its all or nothing for an artist, and people stopped paying attention to the guy that lives across town because they were so distracted by a national artist with flashing lights and a TV show, has its drawbacks.  When I was in high school it was such a big deal for a local band to have a ďrecordĒ because pressing vinyl was pretty expensive on a small scale.  Then it was really cool because of the advent of the home studio and you could sell CD-Rs.  Now the final physical barrier to distributing recorded music is falling.  It may not be a great thing for established artists who have been making millions of dollars releasing multiple greatest hits album with just one new song, but for the local musician who has a day job and just wants the joy of having a couple hundred people like their song on Soundcloud its awesome!  If you like music, pay attention to Soundcloud, Pledgemusic, CDBaby.  There is some brilliant music out there that the major labels donít care about.  If I had all the options to discover music that I have now when I was in High School I would have flunked out.  All I had back then was Rolling Stone and the local record store.  Those sources represented a tiny fraction of all the music that was being made.  Support your local musicians and enjoy some really great music where you can have a beer with the band on their break and talk about whats going on in town.  Help fill the tip jar and share their music on your playlist (Spotify or whatever).  This is how it works today. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline wons

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Re: Songs Of Experience sales in the United States
« Reply #257 on: July 19, 2018, 04:24:30 PM »
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Thanks, wons.  These are sobering stats.  I have been fascinated by this thread because it offers a glimpse of how many of "us" there are out there.  A dwindling amount, it appears.

My pleasure! So 319,000 people purchased the album in either a physical or digital format. A much smaller group of people either streamed or puchased individual tracks from the album equivalent to maybe another 30,000 albums sold. Billboard considers the sale of 10 individual track downloads to = One album sold. Billboard considers 1,500 streams = to One Album sold.

The POP album was considered a poor seller back in 1997 by U2's standards and industry standards at the time. But at least everyone who purchased a ticket for POPMART purchased one copy of the POP album. I'm not exactly sure about this, but it seems like only 1/2 or 1/3 of the people who went to see the Experience Tour purchased the album or listened to it. That seems odd considering that most of the fanbase knows a tour like this is not a nostalgia event but is about the new album primarily.

Wons,

Iíve asked this before but you never answered.  By default, didnít EVERYONE who bought a ticket for E&I buy the CD as well?  Or are you saying the 319,000 includes those sales and there were 400K to 600K who bought tickets.   Meaning only 1/3 to 1/2 redeemed their included CD,  less the people who didnít buy tickets but bought the CD.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No.

Only a fraction of the people who purchased TICKETS for the tour got the album in a digital or physical format FROM their TICKET PURCHASE. That number, is then added to sales of the album that occurred, 1. through online stores for digital formats and physical formats and 2.  people who went to a physical store to pick up a physical copy of the album.

So album sales came from three sources:
1. Album/ticket bundle
2. online sales of digital and physical formats
3. Physical stores selling a physical copy of the album

All 3 of those combine for a total of 319,000 in sales.

The number of tickets sold for the tour in the United States was 438,059. I don't know the exact figure, but it could be as little as 50,000 of ticket buyers redeeming the album and getting in digital or physical format with the purchase of the ticket.

One important thing is, you could NOT use the ticket purchase to get DELUXE album version of the album. The only way to get the DELUXE version of the album was to purchase it from an online store or a physical store.

Personally, I'm responsible for 3 of the albums in the 319,000 album total since I purchased the DELUXE version of the album at the local record store and then redeemed each of the two tickets I purchased for a copy of the album. The copy of the album offered is just the regular album with only 13 tracks. I kept one and gave the other one away.


Its not clear what the exact breakdown of the 319,000 is in terms of what and how people got their albums. I might be able to dig up some of that data for the first week of sales which were 180,000, more than half the total. The breaking down between physical vs digital formats is probably 50/50.


I hope that makes it clear.

So, to me, that just indicates that my preferences are not uncommon.  There are a lot of people out there that have no use for a physical disc.  I canít remember if my ticket offered a digital download or CD, but I think it was just CD.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Every person who purchased a ticket had the option to get the album in digital format or physical format. All sales are physical and digital combined. My argument here has NEVER been about CD's(which you mysteriously continue to talk about) or specifically any physical product. A digital album sold is the same as a physical cd or record sold. What is not the same is streaming.

Your preference though is to stream the music which is NOT the same as purchasing the album in a digital format. Purchasing the album, regardless of format is all the same. Streaming is an entirely different thing.

90% of the people, which does not include YOU, purchased this album in either a digital or physical format. Your group, the streamers, comprise less than 10% of the people who have listened to the album.

So when it comes to U2 fans who have listened to Songs Of Experience, your preference for streaming as opposed to purchasing the album, is very uncommon.

I do realize digital copy and CD is the same as far as sales.  Thatís why I asked if a digital copy or CD was offered with the ticket.

So you have your answer then donít you?  A large percentage of the fans who went to the show are uninterested in the new album.  I donít really find that surprising.  Most people that go to shows like U2 are going for legacy reasons.  The latest album has not received alot of mainstream attention.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

For most of U2's career, the new album and whether it was successful or not played the primary factor in whether the tour was a success. U2 had their first downturn with the POPMART tour and it was because the POP album was poorly received. The next three albums and did very well though and so did their tours. This is the first tour U2 has ever done where the number of fans who purchased or listened to the album was less than the number of fans that purchased a ticket for the tour. For POP and POPMART it was one for one. But typically, album sales have always been greater than ticket sales.

So unfortunately it appears that the legacy factor is for the first time dominating things over the new album which is not good news for the band. It shows that overall interest in the band is dwindling. While some "legacy acts" do record business, most get stuck playing the local farm show or town festival. Its not the ideal place to be. The ideal is having new music that brings in new fans, old fans, and everything in between + the legacy factor. That is when the business incredible or record breaking like on the Vertigo Tour and the 360 tour.

Still, selling 319,000 copies of an album in 2017/2018 is not bad at all. Justin Timberlake's latest has only done a little over 400,000. The sad fact is most people are not even listening to albums in any format anymore. Their just listening to individual songs, a couple from this artist, a couple from that artist. Technology has killed the album regardless of the format it is in. That's not good for artist in the future, because individual songs are not a very good basis for building fandom and getting fans to spend $100 dollars a ticket or more to come to a show. As the public becomes less invested in any particular artist, they become less likely to support concert performances. Why go see a band or artist when you only like or listen to two of their songs? The public is starting to place LESS VALUE on music in general, and even less value on the artist that produce the music.

But U2 are an album band! They always have been. That means they produce albums that from first track to last, are fantastic with no filler. It takes incredible talent to be able to do that. People use to appreciate that, but not anymore it seems.

Still, I hope U2 do not lose heart and realize that they still have a very dedicated following that is interested in their new music and generally prefer the album/tour cycle that is based around new music which is what the band has always been about.



To be honest, though, Iím not really following what all of this data and analysis is supposed to telling me, or how Iím supposed to react.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

This is one of the elements of the business side of U2 which naturally does have some impact on their career and the choices they make in the future. Its also interesting to look at and compare with how other artist are doing just for that reason alone. By clicking on and reading this thread, you've at least showed some interest in the subject.

Because this thread seems to be as much about the state of the music industry as it is SOE sales,  I would be interested in what others (wons too, but not just wons) think about it.  Here are my thoughts.

There has been some great art created in the era of the music industry but lets face it, the commercialization of music has produced, and is still producing, alot of crap that I wouldnít call art.  I like the idea of music regaining more of what it used to be, where it was a local community thing.  The status quo where its all or nothing for an artist, and people stopped paying attention to the guy that lives across town because they were so distracted by a national artist with flashing lights and a TV show, has its drawbacks.  When I was in high school it was such a big deal for a local band to have a ďrecordĒ because pressing vinyl was pretty expensive on a small scale.  Then it was really cool because of the advent of the home studio and you could sell CD-Rs.  Now the final physical barrier to distributing recorded music is falling.  It may not be a great thing for established artists who have been making millions of dollars releasing multiple greatest hits album with just one new song, but for the local musician who has a day job and just wants the joy of having a couple hundred people like their song on Soundcloud its awesome!  If you like music, pay attention to Soundcloud, Pledgemusic, CDBaby.  There is some brilliant music out there that the major labels donít care about.  If I had all the options to discover music that I have now when I was in High School I would have flunked out.  All I had back then was Rolling Stone and the local record store.  Those sources represented a tiny fraction of all the music that was being made.  Support your local musicians and enjoy some really great music where you can have a beer with the band on their break and talk about whats going on in town.  Help fill the tip jar and share their music on your playlist (Spotify or whatever).  This is how it works today. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'll take U2, The Police, Pearl Jam, Big Country, Metallica, R.E.M., Coldplay, Nirvana, Foo Fighters, INXS over any local talent any day of the week. Say what you will about the music business, but without it, over 99% of people who like these bands would not know about them. This website were posting on would not exist! Lets remember this is a U2 fan website. Support U2 and their work that we love.

Offline Tortuga

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Re: Songs Of Experience sales in the United States
« Reply #258 on: July 19, 2018, 04:41:58 PM »
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Thanks, wons.  These are sobering stats.  I have been fascinated by this thread because it offers a glimpse of how many of "us" there are out there.  A dwindling amount, it appears.

My pleasure! So 319,000 people purchased the album in either a physical or digital format. A much smaller group of people either streamed or puchased individual tracks from the album equivalent to maybe another 30,000 albums sold. Billboard considers the sale of 10 individual track downloads to = One album sold. Billboard considers 1,500 streams = to One Album sold.

The POP album was considered a poor seller back in 1997 by U2's standards and industry standards at the time. But at least everyone who purchased a ticket for POPMART purchased one copy of the POP album. I'm not exactly sure about this, but it seems like only 1/2 or 1/3 of the people who went to see the Experience Tour purchased the album or listened to it. That seems odd considering that most of the fanbase knows a tour like this is not a nostalgia event but is about the new album primarily.

Wons,

Iíve asked this before but you never answered.  By default, didnít EVERYONE who bought a ticket for E&I buy the CD as well?  Or are you saying the 319,000 includes those sales and there were 400K to 600K who bought tickets.   Meaning only 1/3 to 1/2 redeemed their included CD,  less the people who didnít buy tickets but bought the CD.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No.

Only a fraction of the people who purchased TICKETS for the tour got the album in a digital or physical format FROM their TICKET PURCHASE. That number, is then added to sales of the album that occurred, 1. through online stores for digital formats and physical formats and 2.  people who went to a physical store to pick up a physical copy of the album.

So album sales came from three sources:
1. Album/ticket bundle
2. online sales of digital and physical formats
3. Physical stores selling a physical copy of the album

All 3 of those combine for a total of 319,000 in sales.

The number of tickets sold for the tour in the United States was 438,059. I don't know the exact figure, but it could be as little as 50,000 of ticket buyers redeeming the album and getting in digital or physical format with the purchase of the ticket.

One important thing is, you could NOT use the ticket purchase to get DELUXE album version of the album. The only way to get the DELUXE version of the album was to purchase it from an online store or a physical store.

Personally, I'm responsible for 3 of the albums in the 319,000 album total since I purchased the DELUXE version of the album at the local record store and then redeemed each of the two tickets I purchased for a copy of the album. The copy of the album offered is just the regular album with only 13 tracks. I kept one and gave the other one away.


Its not clear what the exact breakdown of the 319,000 is in terms of what and how people got their albums. I might be able to dig up some of that data for the first week of sales which were 180,000, more than half the total. The breaking down between physical vs digital formats is probably 50/50.


I hope that makes it clear.

So, to me, that just indicates that my preferences are not uncommon.  There are a lot of people out there that have no use for a physical disc.  I canít remember if my ticket offered a digital download or CD, but I think it was just CD.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Every person who purchased a ticket had the option to get the album in digital format or physical format. All sales are physical and digital combined. My argument here has NEVER been about CD's(which you mysteriously continue to talk about) or specifically any physical product. A digital album sold is the same as a physical cd or record sold. What is not the same is streaming.

Your preference though is to stream the music which is NOT the same as purchasing the album in a digital format. Purchasing the album, regardless of format is all the same. Streaming is an entirely different thing.

90% of the people, which does not include YOU, purchased this album in either a digital or physical format. Your group, the streamers, comprise less than 10% of the people who have listened to the album.

So when it comes to U2 fans who have listened to Songs Of Experience, your preference for streaming as opposed to purchasing the album, is very uncommon.

I do realize digital copy and CD is the same as far as sales.  Thatís why I asked if a digital copy or CD was offered with the ticket.

So you have your answer then donít you?  A large percentage of the fans who went to the show are uninterested in the new album.  I donít really find that surprising.  Most people that go to shows like U2 are going for legacy reasons.  The latest album has not received alot of mainstream attention.


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For most of U2's career, the new album and whether it was successful or not played the primary factor in whether the tour was a success. U2 had their first downturn with the POPMART tour and it was because the POP album was poorly received. The next three albums and did very well though and so did their tours. This is the first tour U2 has ever done where the number of fans who purchased or listened to the album was less than the number of fans that purchased a ticket for the tour. For POP and POPMART it was one for one. But typically, album sales have always been greater than ticket sales.

So unfortunately it appears that the legacy factor is for the first time dominating things over the new album which is not good news for the band. It shows that overall interest in the band is dwindling. While some "legacy acts" do record business, most get stuck playing the local farm show or town festival. Its not the ideal place to be. The ideal is having new music that brings in new fans, old fans, and everything in between + the legacy factor. That is when the business incredible or record breaking like on the Vertigo Tour and the 360 tour.

Still, selling 319,000 copies of an album in 2017/2018 is not bad at all. Justin Timberlake's latest has only done a little over 400,000. The sad fact is most people are not even listening to albums in any format anymore. Their just listening to individual songs, a couple from this artist, a couple from that artist. Technology has killed the album regardless of the format it is in. That's not good for artist in the future, because individual songs are not a very good basis for building fandom and getting fans to spend $100 dollars a ticket or more to come to a show. As the public becomes less invested in any particular artist, they become less likely to support concert performances. Why go see a band or artist when you only like or listen to two of their songs? The public is starting to place LESS VALUE on music in general, and even less value on the artist that produce the music.

But U2 are an album band! They always have been. That means they produce albums that from first track to last, are fantastic with no filler. It takes incredible talent to be able to do that. People use to appreciate that, but not anymore it seems.

Still, I hope U2 do not lose heart and realize that they still have a very dedicated following that is interested in their new music and generally prefer the album/tour cycle that is based around new music which is what the band has always been about.



To be honest, though, Iím not really following what all of this data and analysis is supposed to telling me, or how Iím supposed to react.


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This is one of the elements of the business side of U2 which naturally does have some impact on their career and the choices they make in the future. Its also interesting to look at and compare with how other artist are doing just for that reason alone. By clicking on and reading this thread, you've at least showed some interest in the subject.

Because this thread seems to be as much about the state of the music industry as it is SOE sales,  I would be interested in what others (wons too, but not just wons) think about it.  Here are my thoughts.

There has been some great art created in the era of the music industry but lets face it, the commercialization of music has produced, and is still producing, alot of crap that I wouldnít call art.  I like the idea of music regaining more of what it used to be, where it was a local community thing.  The status quo where its all or nothing for an artist, and people stopped paying attention to the guy that lives across town because they were so distracted by a national artist with flashing lights and a TV show, has its drawbacks.  When I was in high school it was such a big deal for a local band to have a ďrecordĒ because pressing vinyl was pretty expensive on a small scale.  Then it was really cool because of the advent of the home studio and you could sell CD-Rs.  Now the final physical barrier to distributing recorded music is falling.  It may not be a great thing for established artists who have been making millions of dollars releasing multiple greatest hits album with just one new song, but for the local musician who has a day job and just wants the joy of having a couple hundred people like their song on Soundcloud its awesome!  If you like music, pay attention to Soundcloud, Pledgemusic, CDBaby.  There is some brilliant music out there that the major labels donít care about.  If I had all the options to discover music that I have now when I was in High School I would have flunked out.  All I had back then was Rolling Stone and the local record store.  Those sources represented a tiny fraction of all the music that was being made.  Support your local musicians and enjoy some really great music where you can have a beer with the band on their break and talk about whats going on in town.  Help fill the tip jar and share their music on your playlist (Spotify or whatever).  This is how it works today. 


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I'll take U2, The Police, Pearl Jam, Big Country, Metallica, R.E.M., Coldplay, Nirvana, Foo Fighters, INXS over any local talent any day of the week. Say what you will about the music business, but without it, over 99% of people who like these bands would not know about them. This website were posting on would not exist! Lets remember this is a U2 fan website. Support U2 and their work that we love.

In 1977, U2 was local talent.  If they hadnít been attracting an enthusiastic audience and, as a result, getting the attention of people like Bill Graham, this forum would not exist and you never would have heard of U2.  The same is true for all the bands you mention above.  Iím not saying major label music stinks.   That would be ridiculous.  Iím just saying much of it is highly derivative and targeted for the masses and if its all you are paying attention to you are missing out.




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Offline Boba Fett

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Re: Songs Of Experience sales in the United States
« Reply #259 on: July 19, 2018, 04:42:39 PM »
Couple of bits of context...

Music has been around for thousands of years.

The idea that an 'album' was the pinnacle of musical expression was only relevant for a few decades. And really, only became so due to the popularity of the vinyl LP - which had the capacity of around 20-25 minutes of recorded music on each side.

Technology has meant that musicians are now free from than restriction. The only problem is a business problem - an industry grew up very quickly around the advent of the LP. As that era is now effectively over, musicians need to think of other mechanisms if they want to commercialize their art. Interesting times...:)

Offline Tortuga

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Re: Songs Of Experience sales in the United States
« Reply #260 on: July 19, 2018, 07:44:46 PM »
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Couple of bits of context...

Music has been around for thousands of years.

The idea that an 'album' was the pinnacle of musical expression was only relevant for a few decades. And really, only became so due to the popularity of the vinyl LP - which had the capacity of around 20-25 minutes of recorded music on each side.

Technology has meant that musicians are now free from than restriction. The only problem is a business problem - an industry grew up very quickly around the advent of the LP. As that era is now effectively over, musicians need to think of other mechanisms if they want to commercialize their art. Interesting times...:)

Yes, when things have been a certain way your entire life its hard to imagine them any other way.  The movie ďOh brother where art thouĒ gives you a good idea how the commercialization of music started and how young it is.  The business.model will continuously change but music is not going away.


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Offline wons

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Re: Songs Of Experience sales in the United States
« Reply #261 on: July 20, 2018, 12:25:44 AM »
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Thanks, wons.  These are sobering stats.  I have been fascinated by this thread because it offers a glimpse of how many of "us" there are out there.  A dwindling amount, it appears.

My pleasure! So 319,000 people purchased the album in either a physical or digital format. A much smaller group of people either streamed or puchased individual tracks from the album equivalent to maybe another 30,000 albums sold. Billboard considers the sale of 10 individual track downloads to = One album sold. Billboard considers 1,500 streams = to One Album sold.

The POP album was considered a poor seller back in 1997 by U2's standards and industry standards at the time. But at least everyone who purchased a ticket for POPMART purchased one copy of the POP album. I'm not exactly sure about this, but it seems like only 1/2 or 1/3 of the people who went to see the Experience Tour purchased the album or listened to it. That seems odd considering that most of the fanbase knows a tour like this is not a nostalgia event but is about the new album primarily.

Wons,

Iíve asked this before but you never answered.  By default, didnít EVERYONE who bought a ticket for E&I buy the CD as well?  Or are you saying the 319,000 includes those sales and there were 400K to 600K who bought tickets.   Meaning only 1/3 to 1/2 redeemed their included CD,  less the people who didnít buy tickets but bought the CD.


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No.

Only a fraction of the people who purchased TICKETS for the tour got the album in a digital or physical format FROM their TICKET PURCHASE. That number, is then added to sales of the album that occurred, 1. through online stores for digital formats and physical formats and 2.  people who went to a physical store to pick up a physical copy of the album.

So album sales came from three sources:
1. Album/ticket bundle
2. online sales of digital and physical formats
3. Physical stores selling a physical copy of the album

All 3 of those combine for a total of 319,000 in sales.

The number of tickets sold for the tour in the United States was 438,059. I don't know the exact figure, but it could be as little as 50,000 of ticket buyers redeeming the album and getting in digital or physical format with the purchase of the ticket.

One important thing is, you could NOT use the ticket purchase to get DELUXE album version of the album. The only way to get the DELUXE version of the album was to purchase it from an online store or a physical store.

Personally, I'm responsible for 3 of the albums in the 319,000 album total since I purchased the DELUXE version of the album at the local record store and then redeemed each of the two tickets I purchased for a copy of the album. The copy of the album offered is just the regular album with only 13 tracks. I kept one and gave the other one away.


Its not clear what the exact breakdown of the 319,000 is in terms of what and how people got their albums. I might be able to dig up some of that data for the first week of sales which were 180,000, more than half the total. The breaking down between physical vs digital formats is probably 50/50.


I hope that makes it clear.

So, to me, that just indicates that my preferences are not uncommon.  There are a lot of people out there that have no use for a physical disc.  I canít remember if my ticket offered a digital download or CD, but I think it was just CD.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Every person who purchased a ticket had the option to get the album in digital format or physical format. All sales are physical and digital combined. My argument here has NEVER been about CD's(which you mysteriously continue to talk about) or specifically any physical product. A digital album sold is the same as a physical cd or record sold. What is not the same is streaming.

Your preference though is to stream the music which is NOT the same as purchasing the album in a digital format. Purchasing the album, regardless of format is all the same. Streaming is an entirely different thing.

90% of the people, which does not include YOU, purchased this album in either a digital or physical format. Your group, the streamers, comprise less than 10% of the people who have listened to the album.

So when it comes to U2 fans who have listened to Songs Of Experience, your preference for streaming as opposed to purchasing the album, is very uncommon.

I do realize digital copy and CD is the same as far as sales.  Thatís why I asked if a digital copy or CD was offered with the ticket.

So you have your answer then donít you?  A large percentage of the fans who went to the show are uninterested in the new album.  I donít really find that surprising.  Most people that go to shows like U2 are going for legacy reasons.  The latest album has not received alot of mainstream attention.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

For most of U2's career, the new album and whether it was successful or not played the primary factor in whether the tour was a success. U2 had their first downturn with the POPMART tour and it was because the POP album was poorly received. The next three albums and did very well though and so did their tours. This is the first tour U2 has ever done where the number of fans who purchased or listened to the album was less than the number of fans that purchased a ticket for the tour. For POP and POPMART it was one for one. But typically, album sales have always been greater than ticket sales.

So unfortunately it appears that the legacy factor is for the first time dominating things over the new album which is not good news for the band. It shows that overall interest in the band is dwindling. While some "legacy acts" do record business, most get stuck playing the local farm show or town festival. Its not the ideal place to be. The ideal is having new music that brings in new fans, old fans, and everything in between + the legacy factor. That is when the business incredible or record breaking like on the Vertigo Tour and the 360 tour.

Still, selling 319,000 copies of an album in 2017/2018 is not bad at all. Justin Timberlake's latest has only done a little over 400,000. The sad fact is most people are not even listening to albums in any format anymore. Their just listening to individual songs, a couple from this artist, a couple from that artist. Technology has killed the album regardless of the format it is in. That's not good for artist in the future, because individual songs are not a very good basis for building fandom and getting fans to spend $100 dollars a ticket or more to come to a show. As the public becomes less invested in any particular artist, they become less likely to support concert performances. Why go see a band or artist when you only like or listen to two of their songs? The public is starting to place LESS VALUE on music in general, and even less value on the artist that produce the music.

But U2 are an album band! They always have been. That means they produce albums that from first track to last, are fantastic with no filler. It takes incredible talent to be able to do that. People use to appreciate that, but not anymore it seems.

Still, I hope U2 do not lose heart and realize that they still have a very dedicated following that is interested in their new music and generally prefer the album/tour cycle that is based around new music which is what the band has always been about.



To be honest, though, Iím not really following what all of this data and analysis is supposed to telling me, or how Iím supposed to react.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

This is one of the elements of the business side of U2 which naturally does have some impact on their career and the choices they make in the future. Its also interesting to look at and compare with how other artist are doing just for that reason alone. By clicking on and reading this thread, you've at least showed some interest in the subject.

Because this thread seems to be as much about the state of the music industry as it is SOE sales,  I would be interested in what others (wons too, but not just wons) think about it.  Here are my thoughts.

There has been some great art created in the era of the music industry but lets face it, the commercialization of music has produced, and is still producing, alot of crap that I wouldnít call art.  I like the idea of music regaining more of what it used to be, where it was a local community thing.  The status quo where its all or nothing for an artist, and people stopped paying attention to the guy that lives across town because they were so distracted by a national artist with flashing lights and a TV show, has its drawbacks.  When I was in high school it was such a big deal for a local band to have a ďrecordĒ because pressing vinyl was pretty expensive on a small scale.  Then it was really cool because of the advent of the home studio and you could sell CD-Rs.  Now the final physical barrier to distributing recorded music is falling.  It may not be a great thing for established artists who have been making millions of dollars releasing multiple greatest hits album with just one new song, but for the local musician who has a day job and just wants the joy of having a couple hundred people like their song on Soundcloud its awesome!  If you like music, pay attention to Soundcloud, Pledgemusic, CDBaby.  There is some brilliant music out there that the major labels donít care about.  If I had all the options to discover music that I have now when I was in High School I would have flunked out.  All I had back then was Rolling Stone and the local record store.  Those sources represented a tiny fraction of all the music that was being made.  Support your local musicians and enjoy some really great music where you can have a beer with the band on their break and talk about whats going on in town.  Help fill the tip jar and share their music on your playlist (Spotify or whatever).  This is how it works today. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'll take U2, The Police, Pearl Jam, Big Country, Metallica, R.E.M., Coldplay, Nirvana, Foo Fighters, INXS over any local talent any day of the week. Say what you will about the music business, but without it, over 99% of people who like these bands would not know about them. This website were posting on would not exist! Lets remember this is a U2 fan website. Support U2 and their work that we love.

In 1977, U2 was local talent.  If they hadnít been attracting an enthusiastic audience and, as a result, getting the attention of people like Bill Graham, this forum would not exist and you never would have heard of U2.  The same is true for all the bands you mention above.  Iím not saying major label music stinks.   That would be ridiculous.  Iím just saying much of it is highly derivative and targeted for the masses and if its all you are paying attention to you are missing out.




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The fact remains, no major lable support, you and I never hear of U2 and this website does not exist. Lots of people write music and learn how to play the guitar. But they are nothing special let alone U2.

The quality of music over this past decade in my opinion is the worst or lowest quality it has ever been. Part of that is do to how the business has been ruined by technology. There is less money to be made, and there for people and possible talent are less likely to invest serious time in it.

Offline wons

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Re: Songs Of Experience sales in the United States
« Reply #262 on: July 20, 2018, 12:29:56 AM »
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Couple of bits of context...

Music has been around for thousands of years.

The idea that an 'album' was the pinnacle of musical expression was only relevant for a few decades. And really, only became so due to the popularity of the vinyl LP - which had the capacity of around 20-25 minutes of recorded music on each side.

Technology has meant that musicians are now free from than restriction. The only problem is a business problem - an industry grew up very quickly around the advent of the LP. As that era is now effectively over, musicians need to think of other mechanisms if they want to commercialize their art. Interesting times...:)

So what is your favorite piece of music from 2,000 years ago? How about 100 years ago? I would guess that most of the music that you know and love comes that "restricted" time period that also produced U2.

If the past 10 years is in any indication, the future is not bright for new music.

Offline wons

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Re: Songs Of Experience sales in the United States
« Reply #263 on: July 20, 2018, 12:32:47 AM »
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Couple of bits of context...

Music has been around for thousands of years.

The idea that an 'album' was the pinnacle of musical expression was only relevant for a few decades. And really, only became so due to the popularity of the vinyl LP - which had the capacity of around 20-25 minutes of recorded music on each side.

Technology has meant that musicians are now free from than restriction. The only problem is a business problem - an industry grew up very quickly around the advent of the LP. As that era is now effectively over, musicians need to think of other mechanisms if they want to commercialize their art. Interesting times...:)

Yes, when things have been a certain way your entire life its hard to imagine them any other way.  The movie ďOh brother where art thouĒ gives you a good idea how the commercialization of music started and how young it is.  The business.model will continuously change but music is not going away.


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The music may not go away, but the quality of it definitely has declined over the past decade. This decade has not produced any U2 caliber artist.

Offline Tortuga

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Re: Songs Of Experience sales in the United States
« Reply #264 on: July 20, 2018, 04:52:42 AM »
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Thanks, wons.  These are sobering stats.  I have been fascinated by this thread because it offers a glimpse of how many of "us" there are out there.  A dwindling amount, it appears.

My pleasure! So 319,000 people purchased the album in either a physical or digital format. A much smaller group of people either streamed or puchased individual tracks from the album equivalent to maybe another 30,000 albums sold. Billboard considers the sale of 10 individual track downloads to = One album sold. Billboard considers 1,500 streams = to One Album sold.

The POP album was considered a poor seller back in 1997 by U2's standards and industry standards at the time. But at least everyone who purchased a ticket for POPMART purchased one copy of the POP album. I'm not exactly sure about this, but it seems like only 1/2 or 1/3 of the people who went to see the Experience Tour purchased the album or listened to it. That seems odd considering that most of the fanbase knows a tour like this is not a nostalgia event but is about the new album primarily.

Wons,

Iíve asked this before but you never answered.  By default, didnít EVERYONE who bought a ticket for E&I buy the CD as well?  Or are you saying the 319,000 includes those sales and there were 400K to 600K who bought tickets.   Meaning only 1/3 to 1/2 redeemed their included CD,  less the people who didnít buy tickets but bought the CD.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No.

Only a fraction of the people who purchased TICKETS for the tour got the album in a digital or physical format FROM their TICKET PURCHASE. That number, is then added to sales of the album that occurred, 1. through online stores for digital formats and physical formats and 2.  people who went to a physical store to pick up a physical copy of the album.

So album sales came from three sources:
1. Album/ticket bundle
2. online sales of digital and physical formats
3. Physical stores selling a physical copy of the album

All 3 of those combine for a total of 319,000 in sales.

The number of tickets sold for the tour in the United States was 438,059. I don't know the exact figure, but it could be as little as 50,000 of ticket buyers redeeming the album and getting in digital or physical format with the purchase of the ticket.

One important thing is, you could NOT use the ticket purchase to get DELUXE album version of the album. The only way to get the DELUXE version of the album was to purchase it from an online store or a physical store.

Personally, I'm responsible for 3 of the albums in the 319,000 album total since I purchased the DELUXE version of the album at the local record store and then redeemed each of the two tickets I purchased for a copy of the album. The copy of the album offered is just the regular album with only 13 tracks. I kept one and gave the other one away.


Its not clear what the exact breakdown of the 319,000 is in terms of what and how people got their albums. I might be able to dig up some of that data for the first week of sales which were 180,000, more than half the total. The breaking down between physical vs digital formats is probably 50/50.


I hope that makes it clear.

So, to me, that just indicates that my preferences are not uncommon.  There are a lot of people out there that have no use for a physical disc.  I canít remember if my ticket offered a digital download or CD, but I think it was just CD.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Every person who purchased a ticket had the option to get the album in digital format or physical format. All sales are physical and digital combined. My argument here has NEVER been about CD's(which you mysteriously continue to talk about) or specifically any physical product. A digital album sold is the same as a physical cd or record sold. What is not the same is streaming.

Your preference though is to stream the music which is NOT the same as purchasing the album in a digital format. Purchasing the album, regardless of format is all the same. Streaming is an entirely different thing.

90% of the people, which does not include YOU, purchased this album in either a digital or physical format. Your group, the streamers, comprise less than 10% of the people who have listened to the album.

So when it comes to U2 fans who have listened to Songs Of Experience, your preference for streaming as opposed to purchasing the album, is very uncommon.

I do realize digital copy and CD is the same as far as sales.  Thatís why I asked if a digital copy or CD was offered with the ticket.

So you have your answer then donít you?  A large percentage of the fans who went to the show are uninterested in the new album.  I donít really find that surprising.  Most people that go to shows like U2 are going for legacy reasons.  The latest album has not received alot of mainstream attention.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

For most of U2's career, the new album and whether it was successful or not played the primary factor in whether the tour was a success. U2 had their first downturn with the POPMART tour and it was because the POP album was poorly received. The next three albums and did very well though and so did their tours. This is the first tour U2 has ever done where the number of fans who purchased or listened to the album was less than the number of fans that purchased a ticket for the tour. For POP and POPMART it was one for one. But typically, album sales have always been greater than ticket sales.

So unfortunately it appears that the legacy factor is for the first time dominating things over the new album which is not good news for the band. It shows that overall interest in the band is dwindling. While some "legacy acts" do record business, most get stuck playing the local farm show or town festival. Its not the ideal place to be. The ideal is having new music that brings in new fans, old fans, and everything in between + the legacy factor. That is when the business incredible or record breaking like on the Vertigo Tour and the 360 tour.

Still, selling 319,000 copies of an album in 2017/2018 is not bad at all. Justin Timberlake's latest has only done a little over 400,000. The sad fact is most people are not even listening to albums in any format anymore. Their just listening to individual songs, a couple from this artist, a couple from that artist. Technology has killed the album regardless of the format it is in. That's not good for artist in the future, because individual songs are not a very good basis for building fandom and getting fans to spend $100 dollars a ticket or more to come to a show. As the public becomes less invested in any particular artist, they become less likely to support concert performances. Why go see a band or artist when you only like or listen to two of their songs? The public is starting to place LESS VALUE on music in general, and even less value on the artist that produce the music.

But U2 are an album band! They always have been. That means they produce albums that from first track to last, are fantastic with no filler. It takes incredible talent to be able to do that. People use to appreciate that, but not anymore it seems.

Still, I hope U2 do not lose heart and realize that they still have a very dedicated following that is interested in their new music and generally prefer the album/tour cycle that is based around new music which is what the band has always been about.



To be honest, though, Iím not really following what all of this data and analysis is supposed to telling me, or how Iím supposed to react.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

This is one of the elements of the business side of U2 which naturally does have some impact on their career and the choices they make in the future. Its also interesting to look at and compare with how other artist are doing just for that reason alone. By clicking on and reading this thread, you've at least showed some interest in the subject.

Because this thread seems to be as much about the state of the music industry as it is SOE sales,  I would be interested in what others (wons too, but not just wons) think about it.  Here are my thoughts.

There has been some great art created in the era of the music industry but lets face it, the commercialization of music has produced, and is still producing, alot of crap that I wouldnít call art.  I like the idea of music regaining more of what it used to be, where it was a local community thing.  The status quo where its all or nothing for an artist, and people stopped paying attention to the guy that lives across town because they were so distracted by a national artist with flashing lights and a TV show, has its drawbacks.  When I was in high school it was such a big deal for a local band to have a ďrecordĒ because pressing vinyl was pretty expensive on a small scale.  Then it was really cool because of the advent of the home studio and you could sell CD-Rs.  Now the final physical barrier to distributing recorded music is falling.  It may not be a great thing for established artists who have been making millions of dollars releasing multiple greatest hits album with just one new song, but for the local musician who has a day job and just wants the joy of having a couple hundred people like their song on Soundcloud its awesome!  If you like music, pay attention to Soundcloud, Pledgemusic, CDBaby.  There is some brilliant music out there that the major labels donít care about.  If I had all the options to discover music that I have now when I was in High School I would have flunked out.  All I had back then was Rolling Stone and the local record store.  Those sources represented a tiny fraction of all the music that was being made.  Support your local musicians and enjoy some really great music where you can have a beer with the band on their break and talk about whats going on in town.  Help fill the tip jar and share their music on your playlist (Spotify or whatever).  This is how it works today. 


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I'll take U2, The Police, Pearl Jam, Big Country, Metallica, R.E.M., Coldplay, Nirvana, Foo Fighters, INXS over any local talent any day of the week. Say what you will about the music business, but without it, over 99% of people who like these bands would not know about them. This website were posting on would not exist! Lets remember this is a U2 fan website. Support U2 and their work that we love.

In 1977, U2 was local talent.  If they hadnít been attracting an enthusiastic audience and, as a result, getting the attention of people like Bill Graham, this forum would not exist and you never would have heard of U2.  The same is true for all the bands you mention above.  Iím not saying major label music stinks.   That would be ridiculous.  Iím just saying much of it is highly derivative and targeted for the masses and if its all you are paying attention to you are missing out.




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The fact remains, no major lable support, you and I never hear of U2 and this website does not exist. Lots of people write music and learn how to play the guitar. But they are nothing special let alone U2.

The quality of music over this past decade in my opinion is the worst or lowest quality it has ever been. Part of that is do to how the business has been ruined by technology. There is less money to be made, and there for people and possible talent are less likely to invest serious time in it.

If all you listen to is major label music from ďbigĒ artists Iím not surprised you feel this way.


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Offline Johnny Feathers

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Re: Songs Of Experience sales in the United States
« Reply #265 on: July 20, 2018, 02:51:41 PM »
You know, my favorite music tends to be from the 70ís, 80ís, and 90ís too, but Iím also aware enough of the reasons for it. Familiarity, nostalgia, and cultural context affect me as much as the folks deriding the Beatles in the 60ís. We like what we like, and eventually get set in our ways.

Also, I love the idea of insisting we support U2 rather than local music, as if theyíre mutually exclusive, or as if U2 might suffer as a result. FFS, Iím willing to bet U2 would encourage it themselves. The only important thing is to support what you like, really.


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Offline Tortuga

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Songs Of Experience sales in the United States
« Reply #266 on: July 20, 2018, 10:18:25 PM »
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You know, my favorite music tends to be from the 70ís, 80ís, and 90ís too, but Iím also aware enough of the reasons for it. Familiarity, nostalgia, and cultural context affect me as much as the folks deriding the Beatles in the 60ís. We like what we like, and eventually get set in our ways.

Also, I love the idea of insisting we support U2 rather than local music, as if theyíre mutually exclusive, or as if U2 might suffer as a result. FFS, Iím willing to bet U2 would encourage it themselves. The only important thing is to support what you like, really.


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Yes there is nothing to argue about here.  I was just curious if others see the pros as well as the cons of how technology is changing how they listen to music.  For me personally, I find the only rock music played on the radio is OLD rock music.  Look at the bands Wons listed.  Most of them have retired!   

But I find there is lots of good ďrockĒ music going on, it just doesnít get on the radio.  Established bands making new music and newer acts as well.  Switchfoot and Simple Minds have both  put out some of the best music of their careers in recent years.  Bands like Mutemath, Kings of Leon, BRMC.  Snow Patrolís new album is pretty good.  No way is Rock dead!


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Offline Johnny Feathers

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Re: Songs Of Experience sales in the United States
« Reply #267 on: July 20, 2018, 10:23:53 PM »
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You know, my favorite music tends to be from the 70ís, 80ís, and 90ís too, but Iím also aware enough of the reasons for it. Familiarity, nostalgia, and cultural context affect me as much as the folks deriding the Beatles in the 60ís. We like what we like, and eventually get set in our ways.

Also, I love the idea of insisting we support U2 rather than local music, as if theyíre mutually exclusive, or as if U2 might suffer as a result. FFS, Iím willing to bet U2 would encourage it themselves. The only important thing is to support what you like, really.


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Yes there is nothing to argue about here.  I was just curious if others see the pros as well as the cons of how technology is changing how they listen to music.  For me personally, I find the only rock music played on the radio is OLD rock music.  Look at the bands Wons listed.  Most of them have retired!   

But I find there is lots of good ďrockĒ music going on, it just doesnít get on the radio.  Established bands making new music and newer acts as well.  Switchfoot and Simple Minds have both  put out some of the best music of their careers in recent years.  Bands like Mutemath, Kings of Leon, BRMC.  Snow Patrolís new album is pretty good.  No way is Rock dead!


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No, I agree with you. The difference is in how to find it now. You wonít find a lot of new rock on radio. If you want it, you may have to do a little more searching. Truthfully, Iíll admit to missing some of the old industry models, but itís a trade off: now you can find all sorts of stuff out there if youíre willing to look for it.


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Offline wons

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Re: Songs Of Experience sales in the United States
« Reply #268 on: July 21, 2018, 01:38:29 AM »
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You know, my favorite music tends to be from the 70ís, 80ís, and 90ís too, but Iím also aware enough of the reasons for it. Familiarity, nostalgia, and cultural context affect me as much as the folks deriding the Beatles in the 60ís. We like what we like, and eventually get set in our ways.

Also, I love the idea of insisting we support U2 rather than local music, as if theyíre mutually exclusive, or as if U2 might suffer as a result. FFS, Iím willing to bet U2 would encourage it themselves. The only important thing is to support what you like, really.


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   Look at the bands Wons listed.  Most of them have retired!   

  Bands like Mutemath, Kings of Leon, BRMC.  Snow Patrolís new album is pretty good.  No way is Rock dead!


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Of the 10 bands I listed, 6 of them are still active. So that is a majority.

Switchfoot, Simple Minds, Mutemath, Kings of Leon, BRMC, and Snow Patrol are all old in the sense that they were all releasing music before the start of this decade. Looking at rock artist that released their first album after January 2010, its not easy to find anything of the caliber seen in previous decades.


Offline Tortuga

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Re: Songs Of Experience sales in the United States
« Reply #269 on: July 21, 2018, 07:44:10 AM »
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You know, my favorite music tends to be from the 70ís, 80ís, and 90ís too, but Iím also aware enough of the reasons for it. Familiarity, nostalgia, and cultural context affect me as much as the folks deriding the Beatles in the 60ís. We like what we like, and eventually get set in our ways.

Also, I love the idea of insisting we support U2 rather than local music, as if theyíre mutually exclusive, or as if U2 might suffer as a result. FFS, Iím willing to bet U2 would encourage it themselves. The only important thing is to support what you like, really.


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   Look at the bands Wons listed.  Most of them have retired!   

  Bands like Mutemath, Kings of Leon, BRMC.  Snow Patrolís new album is pretty good.  No way is Rock dead!


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Of the 10 bands I listed, 6 of them are still active. So that is a majority.

Switchfoot, Simple Minds, Mutemath, Kings of Leon, BRMC, and Snow Patrol are all old in the sense that they were all releasing music before the start of this decade. Looking at rock artist that released their first album after January 2010, its not easy to find anything of the caliber seen in previous decades.

Do you really think there has not been a single good rock band appear on the scene in the last 18 years?  Coldplay is the most recent band on your list.  Honestly you come across more as a grumpy old ďkids these days and their bad music and new-fangled technologyĒ kind of person than a fan of rock music.  Trust me...  there are some great new bands out there.  I didnít list them because I figured if you hadnít heard of them you would dismiss them as no-bodies.  If theyíve been around awhile and youíve heard of them youíll say they are a product of the old world before it was broken...therefore you are right and the sky is indeed falling.

It seems like your preference is to have a big crowd gather around an artist to prove they are good before you deem them a legitimate rock band and worthy of giving a listen.  Thatís why you are so afraid people might not be liking U2 as much.  You need lots of other people to like what you like.  One way of ensuring that happens is to only like what lots of other people are already liking.  That might have worked when Rock was mainstream.  But tastes of the younger generation are changing from what we grew up with.  Rock is becoming more of a niche audience as our generation ages, just like western swing did for my grandparents generation and the crooners did for my parents.  But guess what?  There are still great Western Swing artists out there.  Probably more than there were in its heyday because there is more of everything now.  But, yeah, you see them in 2,000 seat venues not arenas.  You know what?  Its a lot better to see a band in a 2,000 seat venue than a 40,000 seat arena.

If youíre interested in possibly seeing things you hadnít noticed before, this conversation can be worthwhile.  If you just want to win a silly pointless argument you can set the boundaries up any way you want and make that happen.  You can have the argument.  I just canít accept all the doom and gloom U2 might be fading with its fans/Rock is dead stuff. U2 will make music as long as they are inspired and There is going to be great new rock music, more than we can listen to, until we die.  It will have a resurgence and then fade again but not dying anytime soon.

In case you might have an open mind check out the following bands.  Some are more well-known but have become well-known at least since Coldplay did.  Others that are newer you may not have heard of.  But they are all bands I have enjoyed.  I feel bad that a fellow U2 fan is missing out on some GREAT music.

Spoon
Bon Iver (surely you know this one)
Cvrches (if you like DM)
Gang of Youths (pls check this one out)
Black Keys
Rainbow Kitten Surprise (really good)
Decemberists
Arcade Fire
The Paper Kites (mellow/folk but good)
Imagine Dragons (kind of moved on from ďRockĒ lately)









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