Author Topic: Bono has overstepped the line  (Read 2233 times)

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Offline Groovy

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Bono has overstepped the line
« on: March 12, 2018, 02:06:23 AM »


I have been a U2 fan since 1984. I think I will always be a U2 fan. Like most people on this forum I have defended U2 and Bono against the “haters” for many years.

I will continue to do so. I think their music is great…although the last 20 years have been uneven musically, I still got loads out of their recent couple of albums.

My politics are left of centre, so mostly have aligned with U2’s.

Even when the news came out a decade ago that part of their tax affairs have been moved to Holland, I kind of understood. I think they left themselves open to charges of hypocrisy (especially Bono), but nothing they did was illegal. Most of their publishing earnings were outside of Ireland, so I could understand the business decision.

The latest story though of the bullying at the One offices has shocked me. Not the bullying etc, although unfortunately this happens in many organisations.

The claim that the One organisation didn’t pay any local tax in South Africa on the salaries they paid to their staff there is just shocking.

This is an organisation that has made tax fairness with regards to western countries in developing countries one of their core issues.

Many aid organisations in the west do this type of corruption. They give money in aid, but then never pay local taxes and get deductions in their home countries.

Now I don’t think Bono can deny knowing about this. It is his organisation. He’s probably the main person on the board.

While Europe is recovering from a massive cold storm recently, I thought to change the old saying...

Hypocrisy is a dish best served cold.



“Moyo, who left to become chief of staff to Akinwumi Adesina, the president of the African Development Bank, strongly denies all these allegations. However, she did confirm to the Daily Mail that the ONE Campaign did not pay tax on employees’ salaries in South Africa, saying that this decision was taken in Washington DC.”

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Offline summerholly

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Re: Bono has overstepped the line
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2018, 06:10:00 AM »
I would like to base my opinions on a lot more detailed information than that.   Having been born in Africa and living in South Africa for many years with many friends living there, it is a complex country with a lot of issues stemming from its history. I am not sure it would qualify as a real developing country compared to other African countries given the sophisticated agriculture and mining industries it currently has.  It also has good Universities. Hard to comment on the tax situation without knowing the full details of how it is structured.

Offline miryclay

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Re: Bono has overstepped the line
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2018, 06:11:10 AM »
I would consider this to be a problem of any International organization who don't share similar values.

Offline paddyattitude

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Re: Bono has overstepped the line
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2018, 08:03:26 AM »
this is not HIS organisation...

Offline dwaltman

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Re: Bono has overstepped the line
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2018, 08:45:12 AM »
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this is not HIS organisation...

Being the co-founder kinda makes it HIS organization.

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Offline summerholly

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Re: Bono has overstepped the line
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2018, 09:32:16 AM »
I don't know, I find it all pretty tiresome.  Poor guy would be much more popular if he just lived the rockstar lifestyle and simply didn't bother about trying to do any good in the world at all. He could use tax havens, take drugs, have affairs and know one would probably give a sh**. 

People endlessly focus on reporting anything negative that involves Bono and don't actually seem remotely interested in finding out about the positive stories that may be happening.  People simply don't care about that, they just want to jump on the dirt.

I did see a comment from a person in Africa and they said that the results of the AIDS campaigning had made a difference where they were but you never hear that stuff. 
« Last Edit: March 12, 2018, 09:51:52 AM by summerholly »

Offline paddyattitude

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Re: Bono has overstepped the line
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2018, 09:44:25 AM »
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this is not HIS organisation...

Being the co-founder kinda makes it HIS organization.

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He is rather the spokesperson
many people and organisations were involved in the creation, such as the Gates.
so why don't we blame Bill Gates for all of these?

the wikipedia page says: ONE was founded in 2004 by a coalition of 11 non-profit humanitarian and advocacy organizations, including DATA, CARE, World Vision, Oxfam America, and Bread for the World, with funding from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. In 2007, ONE announced that it would be merging with DATA.

11!!!

how does it make it his?!

Offline summerholly

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Re: Bono has overstepped the line
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2018, 10:00:51 AM »
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this is not HIS organisation...

Being the co-founder kinda makes it HIS organization.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

He is rather the spokesperson
many people and organisations were involved in the creation, such as the Gates.
so why don't we blame Bill Gates for all of these?

the wikipedia page says: ONE was founded in 2004 by a coalition of 11 non-profit humanitarian and advocacy organizations, including DATA, CARE, World Vision, Oxfam America, and Bread for the World, with funding from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. In 2007, ONE announced that it would be merging with DATA.

11!!!

how does it make it his?!

That would make reporting on it as boring as batshit.  A good dose of Bono bashing is way more newsworthy, headline grabbing and scandalous. 

Offline jgrooms

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Re: Bono has overstepped the line
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2018, 10:18:07 AM »
I seriously doubt Bono is involved in the day to say operations of One. 

Offline Luzita

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Re: Bono has overstepped the line
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2018, 12:33:12 PM »
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I have been a U2 fan since 1984. I think I will always be a U2 fan. Like most people on this forum I have defended U2 and Bono against the “haters” for many years.

I will continue to do so. I think their music is great…although the last 20 years have been uneven musically, I still got loads out of their recent couple of albums.

My politics are left of centre, so mostly have aligned with U2’s.

Even when the news came out a decade ago that part of their tax affairs have been moved to Holland, I kind of understood. I think they left themselves open to charges of hypocrisy (especially Bono), but nothing they did was illegal. Most of their publishing earnings were outside of Ireland, so I could understand the business decision.

The latest story though of the bullying at the One offices has shocked me. Not the bullying etc, although unfortunately this happens in many organisations.

The claim that the One organisation didn’t pay any local tax in South Africa on the salaries they paid to their staff there is just shocking.

This is an organisation that has made tax fairness with regards to western countries in developing countries one of their core issues.

Many aid organisations in the west do this type of corruption. They give money in aid, but then never pay local taxes and get deductions in their home countries.

Now I don’t think Bono can deny knowing about this. It is his organisation. He’s probably the main person on the board.

While Europe is recovering from a massive cold storm recently, I thought to change the old saying...

Hypocrisy is a dish best served cold.



“Moyo, who left to become chief of staff to Akinwumi Adesina, the president of the African Development Bank, strongly denies all these allegations. However, she did confirm to the Daily Mail that the ONE Campaign did not pay tax on employees’ salaries in South Africa, saying that this decision was taken in Washington DC.”

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I have a couple of big problems with this news story.

The first is that -- as noted in the quote above -- the person who "confirmed" the tax arrangement and passed the buck for it to the head office is the same person who is alleged to have committed all the abuse. Don't think I would take her word on anything.

The second problem is that there is nothing to indicate whether these tax arrangements (if they really occurred as reported) are legal or illegal. If they are illegal, that is a problem and the organization needs to investigate. If they are legal, then this is a non-issue.

I realize it's very trendy in some circles to treat perfectly legal low-tax investments or arrangements as equivalent to laundering money for a drug cartel, but that's not just absurd, it's quite disturbing. Of course everyone should pay their taxes, but when certain people with big media megaphones treat folks like Bono as criminals for abiding by the tax laws of democratic nations, what that really means is those people don't believe democratic nations should have the right to decide their own tax policy. They believe *they* should have the power to decide tax policy for all nations.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2018, 02:59:25 PM by Luzita »

Offline dwaltman

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Re: Bono has overstepped the line
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2018, 01:02:50 PM »
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this is not HIS organisation...

Being the co-founder kinda makes it HIS organization.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

He is rather the spokesperson
many people and organisations were involved in the creation, such as the Gates.
so why don't we blame Bill Gates for all of these?

the wikipedia page says: ONE was founded in 2004 by a coalition of 11 non-profit humanitarian and advocacy organizations, including DATA, CARE, World Vision, Oxfam America, and Bread for the World, with funding from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. In 2007, ONE announced that it would be merging with DATA.

11!!!

how does it make it his?!

Because he was one of 3 co-founders, along with Bobby Schriver and Jamie Drummond.  He is the face of the organization, he promotes the organization at every concert.  I believe that without Bono, ONE would not exist.  He worked to bring the coalition together and to get funding from Gates.

I'm not trying to suggest he is somehow responsible for what happened in the South African offices, however, who thought it was necessary to issue a statement/apology?  Bono.  If it wasn't his organization, why would he feel the need to do so.

I agree with others in this thread that Bono's good works do not get enough attention and he is removed from the day to day operations of ONE and RED campaigns but these organizations exist because of the work of Bono.

Offline Groovy

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Re: Bono has overstepped the line
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2018, 01:09:26 AM »
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“Moyo, who left to become chief of staff to Akinwumi Adesina, the president of the African Development Bank, strongly denies all these allegations. However, she did confirm to the Daily Mail that the ONE Campaign did not pay tax on employees’ salaries in South Africa, saying that this decision was taken in Washington DC.”

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I have a couple of big problems with this news story.

The first is that -- as noted in the quote above -- the person who "confirmed" the tax arrangement and passed the buck for it to the head office is the same person who is alleged to have committed all the abuse. Don't think I would take her word on anything.

The second problem is that there is nothing to indicate whether these tax arrangements (if they really occurred as reported) are legal or illegal. If they are illegal, that is a problem and the organization needs to investigate. If they are legal, then this is a non-issue.

I realize it's very trendy in some circles to treat perfectly legal low-tax investments or arrangements as equivalent to laundering money for a drug cartel, but that's not just absurd, it's quite disturbing. Of course everyone should pay their taxes, but when certain people with big media megaphones treat folks like Bono as criminals for abiding by the tax laws of democratic nations, what that really means is those people don't believe democratic nations should have the right to decide their own tax policy. They believe *they* should have the power to decide tax policy for all nations.

You seem to have misread my point. This isn't about the legality. Simply put the One organisation has one of its core issues tax fairness in the developing world. Read up on it.

Now if they campaign on this and then do exactly what they campaign against, they are hypocrites. This doesn't mean Bono and his organisations aren't doing good work etc.

But the next time you campaign on something, your credibility will have been damaged.

This is not rocket science.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 01:13:12 AM by Groovy »

Offline TheRealEdge

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Re: Bono has overstepped the line
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2018, 03:55:28 AM »
I think a lot of fans have put Bono on such a high pedestal that they forget that he is just a man - and a man who isn't perfect.

There's no 'pure' man on this planet - save 'maybe' some religious types (but I doubt that too) - and 'we' (men) have to look at ourselves and see how 'perfect' we are.

I like Bono, but I don't know the man - I only know of what I read and see in the media both U2 and non-U2 generated.

Just my thoughts on the B-man.




Offline summerholly

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Re: Bono has overstepped the line
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2018, 04:36:10 AM »
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I think a lot of fans have put Bono on such a high pedestal that they forget that he is just a man - and a man who isn't perfect.

There's no 'pure' man on this planet - save 'maybe' some religious types (but I doubt that too) - and 'we' (men) have to look at ourselves and see how 'perfect' we are.

I like Bono, but I don't know the man - I only know of what I read and see in the media both U2 and non-U2 generated.

Just my thoughts on the B-man.

Nobody is perfect.  I am not particularly attached to Bono either but there does seem to be a desire to find something bad on him whenever possible.  Most of it to means seems like a little bit of fact and a lot of trying very hard to make as big a mountain out of it as possible to make Bono look as bad a possible, while other people doing the same of worse are give a free pass.  Some of it seems highly illogical to me, everyone seems to be an expert on bugger all real fact and detailed information.    I guess I am a facts person.  I get tired of the media spin and really if people are going to pass judgement on if Bono is doing right, wrong or somewhere in between they need all the details and the facts which we are unlikely ever to know.

There seem to be a complex web of people, countries and business structures involved and yet people try and simplify down to whatever will get people all hot and bothered and blame it all on Bono lol.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 04:45:15 AM by summerholly »

Offline paddyattitude

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Re: Bono has overstepped the line
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2018, 09:27:30 AM »
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this is not HIS organisation...

Being the co-founder kinda makes it HIS organization.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

He is rather the spokesperson
many people and organisations were involved in the creation, such as the Gates.
so why don't we blame Bill Gates for all of these?

the wikipedia page says: ONE was founded in 2004 by a coalition of 11 non-profit humanitarian and advocacy organizations, including DATA, CARE, World Vision, Oxfam America, and Bread for the World, with funding from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. In 2007, ONE announced that it would be merging with DATA.

11!!!

how does it make it his?!

Because he was one of 3 co-founders, along with Bobby Schriver and Jamie Drummond.  He is the face of the organization, he promotes the organization at every concert.  I believe that without Bono, ONE would not exist.  He worked to bring the coalition together and to get funding from Gates.

I'm not trying to suggest he is somehow responsible for what happened in the South African offices, however, who thought it was necessary to issue a statement/apology?  Bono.  If it wasn't his organization, why would he feel the need to do so.

I agree with others in this thread that Bono's good works do not get enough attention and he is removed from the day to day operations of ONE and RED campaigns but these organizations exist because of the work of Bono.

11 organisations don't make 3 co-founders...