Author Topic: LIBTAIIW Video  (Read 4179 times)

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Offline SwimmingSorrows

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Re: LIBTAIIW Video
« Reply #75 on: May 01, 2018, 06:08:38 PM »
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When you say "sexuality," I assume you mean sexual orientation. It's true that among the Romans for a man to have sex with another man was considered fine if he was the "top" but shameful if he was the "bottom," i.e. the feminine role. The Greeks didn't have that concept however, even though the status of women in Greek society was even lower than in Roman society.

It's also true that marriage had economic purposes and, among the upper classes, political purposes. That doesn't mean there wasn't also affection and love between husbands and wives -- much of the time, anyway. Nor does it mean that the economic purposes of marriage have gone away in our own society. The basic purpose of marriage is to reinforce pair bonds and family bonds to provide a stable and hopefully economically viable environment for children to grow up in.  That is why marriage is a universal human institution, found in some form in pretty much every culture. It is also why marriage is a basically heterosexual institution, regardless of a society's attitudes toward homosexuality.

Human sexuality is extremely complicated. I think it's true that sexual orientation is a spectrum, but it's a lopsided spectrum. Most people are basically heterosexual, only a minority are gay or bi. But that doesn't mean people can't engage in and even enjoy sexual practices that run counter to their basic orientation, esp. if they are encouraged to do so by their culture.

However, it's hard for love and sex to go together when people go against their basic orientation, which I believe is what God desires for us. And is most perfectly expressed through Christian marriage, IMO. Which is supposed to be an expression of faithful sexual love, and the foundation of parental love and family love, as well as providing for the emotional, spiritual, and practical needs of children. It's all supposed to be integrated. To be sure, in the real world no marriage is perfect and some don't even come close, but that's where I think God wants us to aim. Bono and Ali seem to have done a pretty good job in that department.

Yeah, that's what I meant.  Also, I didn't mean to imply that no married couples in Rome were in love or even that most weren't, but it seems, especially when reading the property laws surrounding it and stories of patricians using it for political gain, that the main purpose of it was not love.  Nowadays, society says you should marry somebody you're in love with.  Of course, many still marry for money or status.

There are certainly many gay couples who fit the modern description of two people who are deeply in love and want to commit to one another.  Also, it does provide a stable environment for children to grow up in, and there are a lot of kids up for adoption that many gay couples would be happy to raise.  This issue is such a no-brainer for me.  I don't understand people who oppose gay marriage.

Online Clarky

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Re: LIBTAIIW Video
« Reply #76 on: May 02, 2018, 04:13:12 AM »
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It may be mid tempo Christian rock on the trite side of the street but no one does that better than U2.

I think its a bit ironic that Bono was quoted saying something along the lines of today's music (or was it rock music?) being too "girly" or some such.....and then releasing THIS song.
 :-\

It's this kind cherry picking of language to justify outrage that has contributed towards so much of what is wrong today.

Offline blovesu2

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Re: LIBTAIIW Video
« Reply #77 on: May 02, 2018, 09:02:20 AM »
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It may be mid tempo Christian rock on the trite side of the street but no one does that better than U2.

I think its a bit ironic that Bono was quoted saying something along the lines of today's music (or was it rock music?) being too "girly" or some such.....and then releasing THIS song.
 :-\

It's this kind cherry picking of language to justify outrage that has contributed towards so much of what is wrong today.

LOL you missed my point, but that's ok. I agree, cherry picking IS the problem. I completely understood and agreed with what Bono was trying to say. So let's put aside the word "girly", and just look at what he was trying to say....and given that, doesn't this song fall into that category? that's all i was trying to say ...that this song is exactly "that" !

Offline shineinthesummernight

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Re: LIBTAIIW Video
« Reply #78 on: May 02, 2018, 05:42:54 PM »
I would not describe this song as "girly".  Emotive, yes, but more from a place of wisdom and experience.

Offline blovesu2

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Re: LIBTAIIW Video
« Reply #79 on: May 02, 2018, 10:03:07 PM »
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I would not describe this song as "girly".  Emotive, yes, but more from a place of wisdom and experience.

To each their own.
I find it's got no strength to it.
It lacks creative punch.
Has no power.
Too literal.
Just awful.

Offline ian ryan

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Re: LIBTAIIW Video
« Reply #80 on: May 04, 2018, 08:58:53 PM »
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Alrighty, I've thought through every single other non-live performance U2 video and there's not a single one I can come up with that is literal. Not one. Not water patterns Staring At The Sun or sheets coming off buildings Magnificent or we're in a circus All I Want Is You or my fingers have hands Even Better Than The Real Thing. None of them have been literal that I can think of, and so I take the Love Is Bigger video as being a specific instance of conveyance of a larger message. Just like the rest of them. No U2 music video is a literal expression of what the song is about, but they all include elements to frame the song. This one included.

I'll say it upfront: I'm gay. One of the things that has interested me about U2 is that they've been cool with people like me, even when many other rock bands (and their fans) haven't been. I've just sat back and thought about it and I believe U2 have released 81 music videos. Two, just two, have dealt with ideas of sexuality that are potentially not heterosexual. Mind you, I have never seen frustration when a U2 video shows up with a man and a woman kissing. Never seen frustration with that. But one, just one clearly gay video shows up in their 40+ year career and people start expressing frustrations that it has ruined the song for them.

They can't get past the idea that no U2 video that isn't a performance video has ever been literal, not one. They can't get past the idea that 3% of U2's music videos are about non-heterosexuals. I just hear frustration about what they don't like, rather than letting everyone have their corner. Not every U2 product has to appeal to everyone. But just because they release something that has a music video that doesn't talk to me doesn't mean the song has no value to me. It may just not be aimed at me, and that's ok. I guarantee you this video was aimed squarely at me, because I felt it. Hard.

For you, and others in the same boat, I'm glad that you like the video.  Truly.  But my issues with the video are not at all with the characters that are in it.  My primary feeling is that the video, while well shot with nice colouring and imagery, is thematically very repetitive, and thus is bores me.  It doesn't offend me.  There are other U2 videos that I don't like, too, and the reason is generally because I don't think that they've taken me anywhere (If God Will Send His Angels is the first example I can think of that's similar).  Maybe one day I'll get more out of it/them, but right now I just don't see it.

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Yeah, I really the bridge. It connects the two parts so well.
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I really like the bridge, too.  This was well played.

I've got no problem if you think it's thematically repetitive. Because it really, really is. I get frustrated when people say it's a bad video because it's about non-heterosexual people though. Artistically, I think it's a bit bland. Thematically, I think it's very kind to me.

Offline ian ryan

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Re: LIBTAIIW Video
« Reply #81 on: May 04, 2018, 09:01:08 PM »
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no, either version does not because it isn't a video that is repetitive. It blends with the song and quite frankly, is probably my favorite U2 music video.
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Does "One" leave a bad taste in your mouth as well for addressing "tenuous" issues?

Even though it's a bunch of straight men in drag sitting on a couch, shot after shot? (With the occasional old man on a see-saw?) The Corbjin video is much more skillfully made and directed, without a doubt, but thematically it's very similar.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 09:17:53 PM by ian ryan »

Online Clarky

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Re: LIBTAIIW Video
« Reply #82 on: May 05, 2018, 07:21:35 PM »
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It may be mid tempo Christian rock on the trite side of the street but no one does that better than U2.

I think its a bit ironic that Bono was quoted saying something along the lines of today's music (or was it rock music?) being too "girly" or some such.....and then releasing THIS song.
 :-\

It's this kind cherry picking of language to justify outrage that has contributed towards so much of what is wrong today.

LOL you missed my point, but that's ok. I agree, cherry picking IS the problem. I completely understood and agreed with what Bono was trying to say. So let's put aside the word "girly", and just look at what he was trying to say....and given that, doesn't this song fall into that category? that's all i was trying to say ...that this song is exactly "that" !

Sorry I got sidetracked. Yeah I suppose, maybe. But I tend to side more with:

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I would not describe this song as "girly".  Emotive, yes, but more from a place of wisdom and experience.

I agree with this, personally.

Offline ian ryan

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Re: LIBTAIIW Video
« Reply #83 on: May 06, 2018, 01:56:43 AM »
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this video is extremely TRITE.
I will confess though, that to my ears the song is the worst thing the band has ever put out. I deleted it from my playlist long ago. Just awful, Christian rock/Social Justice Warrior stuff.
They've every right to do/say what they want with their art, but wow...not for me thanks. It seems a fitting video for an awful song.


Yes, it does flirt with weak Christian rock. But so did Miracle Drug and that song totally won me over live. I was 'converted'.

It's not about Christian rock and SJW (what a BS term) ideas at all. It's about telling your sons to know who they are and to be good people. It's Bono giving his sons lessons to take with them, just as he gave his daughters lessons in Get Out Of Your Own Way.

oh, ok. Thanks for correcting my interpretation of the song...
Seriously. This is SJW stuff - like the term or not.


Its funny how treating someone else like a human being is now viewed as a perjorative term by some. 

Offline Lebowski

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Re: LIBTAIIW Video
« Reply #84 on: May 06, 2018, 09:45:35 AM »
I think the idea behind the video was good, but I don't think it was executed well.

I still like the song a lot, regardless.

Offline ian ryan

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Re: LIBTAIIW Video
« Reply #85 on: May 08, 2018, 11:01:43 PM »
Alrighty, let's bring this back to the video, please. Blanket statements about the political views of entire groups don't serve anyone except the person who posts them. I was hoping this wouldn't go too far into what got the boards suspended, but it's going that way.

To recenter the conversation, anyone else feel like the live version of this song isn't living up to the album version? Or the BBC version?

Offline SwimmingSorrows

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Re: LIBTAIIW Video
« Reply #86 on: May 09, 2018, 02:52:27 AM »
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To recenter the conversation, anyone else feel like the live version of this song isn't living up to the album version? Or the BBC version?

I love the extended outro, lifts it above the album version for me.  BBC is hard to top, though.  I feel like a professionally recorded version of it live on this tour could be my favorite, but that orchestra may be unbeatable.

Offline Luzita

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Re: LIBTAIIW Video
« Reply #87 on: May 09, 2018, 08:38:24 AM »
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Alrighty, let's bring this back to the video, please. Blanket statements about the political views of entire groups don't serve anyone except the person who posts them. I was hoping this wouldn't go too far into what got the boards suspended, but it's going that way.

To recenter the conversation, anyone else feel like the live version of this song isn't living up to the album version? Or the BBC version?

Haven't seen the live version yet so can't comment on that. But I will on Friday! Very excited.

Offline shineinthesummernight

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Re: LIBTAIIW Video
« Reply #88 on: May 09, 2018, 03:34:58 PM »
You're going to Vegas, Luzita!!?  How fun!  Two of my other forum friends will be there as well.  I'll be on Periscope.  Are you in GA?

Offline Luzita

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Re: LIBTAIIW Video
« Reply #89 on: May 09, 2018, 10:07:56 PM »
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You're going to Vegas, Luzita!!?  How fun!  Two of my other forum friends will be there as well.  I'll be on Periscope.  Are you in GA?
Nope, regular seats. My back cant take standing for that long.


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