Author Topic: Lip-syncing!?  (Read 7552 times)

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Online Tortuga

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Re: Lip-syncing!?
« Reply #105 on: September 15, 2018, 10:30:13 AM »
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You can insist it's easy to time the vocals to the synth changes all you want and it doesn't magically make it so.

I personally feel I could have completed that pass better than Tom Brady but maybe the experts know better than I do.

I donít think you have to be any kind of expert to not understand how singing along with a synth or a backing track is any harder than singing along with the band.  What is the difference?

Maybe the thought was that there is no drums to guide him but hey use a click track on every single song live.  That just makes no sense.

I realize this is a silly argument but it bothers me when we canít just admit U2 are human and sometimes they just do goofy things.


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Offline NotComingDown

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Re: Lip-syncing!?
« Reply #106 on: September 15, 2018, 01:56:54 PM »
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You can insist it's easy to time the vocals to the synth changes all you want and it doesn't magically make it so.

I personally feel I could have completed that pass better than Tom Brady but maybe the experts know better than I do.

I donít think you have to be any kind of expert to not understand how singing along with a synth or a backing track is any harder than singing along with the band.  What is the difference?

Maybe the thought was that there is no drums to guide him but hey use a click track on every single song live.  That just makes no sense.

I realize this is a silly argument but it bothers me when we canít just admit U2 are human and sometimes they just do goofy things.


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Agreed, It's totally goofy! Important point though, they DID use a click track on this song and it doesn't help at all. You can hear it yourself if you check out that bootleg (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login) - the lyrics don't come in on rhythm at all, so a click track is basically useless.

Offline Johnny Feathers

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Re: Lip-syncing!?
« Reply #107 on: September 15, 2018, 03:44:59 PM »
Not to mention, thereís no requirement to perform the song in any particular style. A beat could be added, a rhythmic part included, or something else excluded, etc. And MLK is a completely meter-less song which Bonoís done countless times.



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Online Tortuga

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Re: Lip-syncing!?
« Reply #108 on: September 15, 2018, 04:13:41 PM »
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You can insist it's easy to time the vocals to the synth changes all you want and it doesn't magically make it so.

I personally feel I could have completed that pass better than Tom Brady but maybe the experts know better than I do.

I donít think you have to be any kind of expert to not understand how singing along with a synth or a backing track is any harder than singing along with the band.  What is the difference?

Maybe the thought was that there is no drums to guide him but hey use a click track on every single song live.  That just makes no sense.

I realize this is a silly argument but it bothers me when we canít just admit U2 are human and sometimes they just do goofy things.


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Agreed, It's totally goofy! Important point though, they DID use a click track on this song and it doesn't help at all. You can hear it yourself if you check out that bootleg (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login) - the lyrics don't come in on rhythm at all, so a click track is basically useless.

I would love to understand what you are getting at.  Bono misses the click therefore its somehow a difficult song?  He just was off time.  Big deal.  Its basically a free time song.  All there is to sing to is a synth pad.  The synth pad has no meter at all.  Therefore Bono can sing any meter or tempo he wants and never be off.  Its the one song he can sing literally anyway he wants meter and tempo and never be wrong.  Heís only keeping time with himself.  The audience isnít even hearing the click.  How would they know heís off unless they have a perfect click going in their head.  Tempo and meter have no reference and the melody has a narrow range.  This is the easiest song he could sing.


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Offline laoghaire

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Re: Lip-syncing!?
« Reply #109 on: September 15, 2018, 07:38:24 PM »
MLk is a great example to illustrate why LIAWHL is different. The synth changes follow Bono's vocals. So Bono can set the timing and Edge easily moves along with him. LIAWHL doesn't do that.

I mean, they lip synched. They tried and failed to do it live. Then they gave up and dropped the song. What's more likely - it's harder than you think, or they are just complete morons who can't manage a simple little song after 40 years of professiknal experience?

Offline NotComingDown

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Re: Lip-syncing!?
« Reply #110 on: September 15, 2018, 08:09:40 PM »
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You can insist it's easy to time the vocals to the synth changes all you want and it doesn't magically make it so.

I personally feel I could have completed that pass better than Tom Brady but maybe the experts know better than I do.

I donít think you have to be any kind of expert to not understand how singing along with a synth or a backing track is any harder than singing along with the band.  What is the difference?

Maybe the thought was that there is no drums to guide him but hey use a click track on every single song live.  That just makes no sense.

I realize this is a silly argument but it bothers me when we canít just admit U2 are human and sometimes they just do goofy things.


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Agreed, It's totally goofy! Important point though, they DID use a click track on this song and it doesn't help at all. You can hear it yourself if you check out that bootleg (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login) - the lyrics don't come in on rhythm at all, so a click track is basically useless.

I would love to understand what you are getting at.  Bono misses the click therefore its somehow a difficult song?  He just was off time.  Big deal.  Its basically a free time song.  All there is to sing to is a synth pad.  The synth pad has no meter at all.  Therefore Bono can sing any meter or tempo he wants and never be off.  Its the one song he can sing literally anyway he wants meter and tempo and never be wrong.  Heís only keeping time with himself.  The audience isnít even hearing the click.  How would they know heís off unless they have a perfect click going in their head.  Tempo and meter have no reference and the melody has a narrow range.  This is the easiest song he could sing.


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You're right, the audience wouldn't really know he's off, unless they REALLY knew the song. I don't disagree with anything you're saying (except the synth not having any meter - it does, it's just hard to count and not super clear). They COULD have done a version where Bono's totally free and can sing any tempo/meter he wants. But that's not what they decided to do - for better or worse, they decided to try to recreate the album version exactly. My only point is that that's very hard to do.

Online Tortuga

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Re: Lip-syncing!?
« Reply #111 on: September 15, 2018, 08:23:43 PM »
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You can insist it's easy to time the vocals to the synth changes all you want and it doesn't magically make it so.

I personally feel I could have completed that pass better than Tom Brady but maybe the experts know better than I do.

I donít think you have to be any kind of expert to not understand how singing along with a synth or a backing track is any harder than singing along with the band.  What is the difference?

Maybe the thought was that there is no drums to guide him but hey use a click track on every single song live.  That just makes no sense.

I realize this is a silly argument but it bothers me when we canít just admit U2 are human and sometimes they just do goofy things.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agreed, It's totally goofy! Important point though, they DID use a click track on this song and it doesn't help at all. You can hear it yourself if you check out that bootleg (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login) - the lyrics don't come in on rhythm at all, so a click track is basically useless.

I would love to understand what you are getting at.  Bono misses the click therefore its somehow a difficult song?  He just was off time.  Big deal.  Its basically a free time song.  All there is to sing to is a synth pad.  The synth pad has no meter at all.  Therefore Bono can sing any meter or tempo he wants and never be off.  Its the one song he can sing literally anyway he wants meter and tempo and never be wrong.  Heís only keeping time with himself.  The audience isnít even hearing the click.  How would they know heís off unless they have a perfect click going in their head.  Tempo and meter have no reference and the melody has a narrow range.  This is the easiest song he could sing.


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You're right, the audience wouldn't really know he's off, unless they REALLY knew the song. I don't disagree with anything you're saying (except the synth not having any meter - it does, it's just hard to count and not super clear). They COULD have done a version where Bono's totally free and can sing any tempo/meter he wants. But that's not what they decided to do - for better or worse, they decided to try to recreate the album version exactly. My only point is that that's very hard to do.
Yeah the synth has a tremelo to it but come on if he can sing to Edgeís chord changes he can sing to that.

The song is too hard just does not explain the mystery of lip synching to LIAWHL.  We may never know.


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Online Tortuga

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Re: Lip-syncing!?
« Reply #112 on: September 15, 2018, 08:34:27 PM »
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MLk is a great example to illustrate why LIAWHL is different. The synth changes follow Bono's vocals. So Bono can set the timing and Edge easily moves along with him. LIAWHL doesn't do that.

I mean, they lip synched. They tried and failed to do it live. Then they gave up and dropped the song. What's more likely - it's harder than you think, or they are just complete morons who can't manage a simple little song after 40 years of professiknal experience?

That is just not how a band operates and U2 is no exception.  The singer sings to the accompaniment, not the other way around.  You would end up with a train wreck with everyone trying to guess who is following who.  Everybody follows the drummer.  If there are no drums the singer will sing to the other instruments with the most rhythmic one being the leader.

Just ask yourself this if Bono can keep time to every other song, why not this one.  What is so special about it?  Any decent singer can sing to a backing track and Bono is way more experienced and polished than decent. 

Why is everyone trying to explain this as a failure of capability?  Its just the silliest thing I can think of.


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Offline ahittle

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Re: Lip-syncing!?
« Reply #113 on: September 16, 2018, 01:28:01 PM »
I'm not really arguing one way or another, and I'm not particularly offended that he lip-synced it.  But I am fascinated by the tech behind these big productions.

The song is not one long pad. I think it's got five chords. He would have to have in-ear cues so that he could hit the changes. Obviously he routinely has these cues even when you wouldn't think they were needed. Or Terry could play it live and comp Bono, but I'm not sure why they didn't take that route.

I think there's been observation about ducked vocals in past tours? Wasn't there a Crumbs from Your Table car crash that revealed canned lead vocals mixed alongside Bono's live vocals?  A lot of these big tours will use this technique of mixing live with recorded vocals; when the singer is feeling confident, his live vocals seamlessly overtake the recorded version. But if he's not feeling it, he can sit out and lip-sync it. Obviously this is in a lot of pop music that features dancing, etc.

Online Tortuga

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Re: Lip-syncing!?
« Reply #114 on: September 16, 2018, 02:01:57 PM »
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I'm not really arguing one way or another, and I'm not particularly offended that he lip-synced it.  But I am fascinated by the tech behind these big productions.

The song is not one long pad. I think it's got five chords. He would have to have in-ear cues so that he could hit the changes. Obviously he routinely has these cues even when you wouldn't think they were needed. Or Terry could play it live and comp Bono, but I'm not sure why they didn't take that route.

I think there's been observation about ducked vocals in past tours? Wasn't there a Crumbs from Your Table car crash that revealed canned lead vocals mixed alongside Bono's live vocals?  A lot of these big tours will use this technique of mixing live with recorded vocals; when the singer is feeling confident, his live vocals seamlessly overtake the recorded version. But if he's not feeling it, he can sit out and lip-sync it. Obviously this is in a lot of pop music that features dancing, etc.

Iím not super-offended but in the context of a rock show, the more its done the more it diminishes the authenticity of the live experience.  Its different with dance-oriented shows because people are there for the dance as much as the music and its hard for anyone to dance and sing at the same time.

Yes there are chord changes but every song has chord changes.  And it wasnít just a support track because Bono chose to make it obvious he was not actually singing.  My theory is that it was an intentional theatrical device intended to be symbolic of something...perhaps being somewhere wavering between life and death or consciousness and unconsciousness.


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Offline pdxireland

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Re: Lip-syncing!?
« Reply #115 on: September 26, 2018, 10:14:16 PM »
Bono been using live auto-tune for years!
You can limit the correction so it sounds less treated and not metallicĒ
Just about every U2 song is 20-50% backing track with click track, fill, sequencing, and fill.
Real live gigs for most bands are long dead!
fmg