Author Topic: Iconic boy on U2 album covers slams band for supporting abortion in Ireland  (Read 2396 times)

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Offline miryclay

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Im happy with the results. It seemed to be a big sisterhood rally. How will leading female leaders deal with those females who oppose their views? Is there room for ideological diversity in the movement?

Offline Luzita

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Of course, men can have a valid opinion on abortion.   It's a very personal choice, imo....one between the 2 people involved but even more so for the woman,  seeing she is the one who deals with the outcome (often alone) of either of the decisions she might make.  So I don't think men should not have an opinion on the issue but I value a woman's opinion on this issue more than a man.

At least in a national referendum, everyone has an opportunity to vote.  The only national referendum in the U.S. is for the Presidency.  And from the looks of it, the Irish have spoken and have favored a repeal. 

As far as the comparisons to homelessness or poverty....those issues directly impact men as well as women.  As far as I know, men have yet to carry a child to term or experience the anguish of abortion....and many run as far away as possible if faced with the situation.
I am a woman but I donít believe men arenít entitled to an opinion on abortion. The issue isnít only about women but about how we determine how developed a human life has to be before they have human rights.

In the U.S. at least, there isnít much difference between men and woman on this issue. Though itís true woman tend to feel more involved and have more passionate opinions on both sides.


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Offline cocamojoe

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Poverty certainly effects both men and women, but, from a purely statistical standpoint, it effects men far far more, yet U2 is out there saying that ďpoverty is sexistĒ on last summerís tour.

My view on abortion is this: I believe that life begins in the womb, and I believe that the right to life trumps the right to liberty, as one canít have either liberty or pursue happiness if their life is taken away from them, especially in the name of liberty. Yes, it is a complicated issue, but not because of what abortion is. In my view, the conservative and liberals always argue on this, and will always do so, because they argue from quite different perspectives. For the conservative, they argue from the view that what is aborted is a uniquely individual life; liberals tend to argue from a range of views, either simply that it is a womanís right or that a woman has the right to sexual autonomy such where she shouldnít be ďburdenedĒ by a baby (which irks the conservatives, as they then see the argument in particular, as well as liberalism and feminism in general, as not believing in personal responsibility for ones actions). Where conservatives err, though, is that they only focus on changing laws, while seeming to ignore the fact that the society and culture, in a sense, makes abortion a necessary evil. If we are going to sexuakize children and youth at a younger age, encouraging promiscuity, then abortion must also be legal. Failing to see this, and address the culture writ large, is where conservatives fail.

This isnít even to mention the conservatives who want to end abortion laws, yet also vote for laws that make adoption insanely difficult and expensive, while also supporting and cheering on disgusting, endless wars, normally in the Middle East.

Again, for me, the right to life trumps the right to liberty. In the trifecta of rights that I, as an American, believe are God given, as the USís founding documents say,, one canít have liberty if they have not life, just as one canít pursue happiness if they have not liberty.

Offline Maximus

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I simply believe life begins at conception.

I would like to hear U2s rational behind it. The edge seemed to be conflicted when he talked about it.

However this does not leagalize abortion in Ireland. The abortion laws still have to be worked out and the pols promised very restricted laws. Or it could remain illegal all this did was say a child does not have civil rights at conception.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 07:07:17 PM by Maximus »

Offline summerholly

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It is not an easy subject and often a very hard decision for those who have to make it.  As a woman I want the ability to decide what happens to my body but have no idea what I would have done if I had found myself in that situation.  I have only had two personal encounters with the subject of abortion.  One friend in our early twenties elected to have one, the father very quickly ran away in the other direction and she was on her own so made that decision.  The other was a young 13 yo girl at my school preyed on by an older man and forced to remain pregnant by law and not really supported by her shocked parents so she committed suicide, no winners in that one.  In this day and age there needs to be continued support and education to minimise the need for abortion but ultimately I believe the choice belongs to the woman, but clearly responsibility rests on both man and woman for the need for it not to occur in the first place.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 08:02:56 PM by summerholly »

Offline miryclay

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Poverty certainly effects both men and women, but, from a purely statistical standpoint, it effects men far far more, yet U2 is out there saying that ďpoverty is sexistĒ on last summerís tour.

My view on abortion is this: I believe that life begins in the womb, and I believe that the right to life trumps the right to liberty, as one canít have either liberty or pursue happiness if their life is taken away from them, especially in the name of liberty. Yes, it is a complicated issue, but not because of what abortion is. In my view, the conservative and liberals always argue on this, and will always do so, because they argue from quite different perspectives. For the conservative, they argue from the view that what is aborted is a uniquely individual life; liberals tend to argue from a range of views, either simply that it is a womanís right or that a woman has the right to sexual autonomy such where she shouldnít be ďburdenedĒ by a baby (which irks the conservatives, as they then see the argument in particular, as well as liberalism and feminism in general, as not believing in personal responsibility for ones actions). Where conservatives err, though, is that they only focus on changing laws, while seeming to ignore the fact that the society and culture, in a sense, makes abortion a necessary evil. If we are going to sexuakize children and youth at a younger age, encouraging promiscuity, then abortion must also be legal. Failing to see this, and address the culture writ large, is where conservatives fail.

This isnít even to mention the conservatives who want to end abortion laws, yet also vote for laws that make adoption insanely difficult and expensive, while also supporting and cheering on disgusting, endless wars, normally in the Middle East.

Again, for me, the right to life trumps the right to liberty. In the trifecta of rights that I, as an American, believe are God given, as the USís founding documents say,, one canít have liberty if they have not life, just as one canít pursue happiness if they have not liberty.


That's a very American approach but Ireland has a completely different narrative and approach.

Offline cocamojoe

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Poverty certainly effects both men and women, but, from a purely statistical standpoint, it effects men far far more, yet U2 is out there saying that ďpoverty is sexistĒ on last summerís tour.

My view on abortion is this: I believe that life begins in the womb, and I believe that the right to life trumps the right to liberty, as one canít have either liberty or pursue happiness if their life is taken away from them, especially in the name of liberty. Yes, it is a complicated issue, but not because of what abortion is. In my view, the conservative and liberals always argue on this, and will always do so, because they argue from quite different perspectives. For the conservative, they argue from the view that what is aborted is a uniquely individual life; liberals tend to argue from a range of views, either simply that it is a womanís right or that a woman has the right to sexual autonomy such where she shouldnít be ďburdenedĒ by a baby (which irks the conservatives, as they then see the argument in particular, as well as liberalism and feminism in general, as not believing in personal responsibility for ones actions). Where conservatives err, though, is that they only focus on changing laws, while seeming to ignore the fact that the society and culture, in a sense, makes abortion a necessary evil. If we are going to sexuakize children and youth at a younger age, encouraging promiscuity, then abortion must also be legal. Failing to see this, and address the culture writ large, is where conservatives fail.

This isnít even to mention the conservatives who want to end abortion laws, yet also vote for laws that make adoption insanely difficult and expensive, while also supporting and cheering on disgusting, endless wars, normally in the Middle East.

Again, for me, the right to life trumps the right to liberty. In the trifecta of rights that I, as an American, believe are God given, as the USís founding documents say,, one canít have liberty if they have not life, just as one canít pursue happiness if they have not liberty.


That's a very American approach but Ireland has a completely different narrative and approach.

Care to explain further?

Offline goldtoad

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I am pro-life primarily because of late term abortions. I don't necessarily believe human life begins at conception, but I don't understand how anyone can believe it is OK to kill viable baby after 20 weeks gestation. If a parent killed their infant one minute after the child was born, they would be considered an evil murderer, however if an abortionist kills the child a minute before it is born, that is OK?

I know late term abortions are under 2% of all abortions in the US (approximately 9000 out of the 650,000 abortions per year), but in most cases it's an evil procedure that should almost never happen.  In 2013, an abortionist in Philadelphia was convicted of murder for cutting the spinal cords of infants after they were out of the womb.  The sick morality of it is:  If he had followed the normal procedure and cut their spinal cord while the babies were still in the womb, that would have been OK and he would still be a respected person in the eyes of many pro-choice voters.

I think abortion will always be legal in the US and most other democratic countries and I think pro-life groups have failed because they have not also been strongly pro-contraception.  However, I don't understand how any Christian (or any other person who believes in a God who cares about each one of us) can also believe it is OK to kill an infant that would live outside the womb.

Abortion may be legal, but Christians should not be afraid to say it is wrong - especially late term abortions.  I am still a U2 fan, but they will lose some fans over this.  Being a rock star and making statements against Trump (who I also don't like) or  statements is favor of pro-liberal causes isn't being brave... In fact, it is being cliche.  When U2 has the bravery to stand up against something that is politically correct, I will have a lot more respect for their political opinions.

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« Last Edit: May 31, 2018, 10:33:59 PM by goldtoad »

Offline summerholly

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I am pro-life primarily because of late term abortions. I don't necessarily believe human life begins at conception, but I don't understand how anyone can believe it is OK to kill viable baby after 20 weeks gestation. If a parent killed their infant one minute after the child was born, they would be considered an evil murderer, however if an abortionist kills the child a minute before it is born, that is OK?

I know late term abortions are under 2% of all abortions in the US (approximately 9000 out of the 650,000 abortions per year), but in most cases it's an evil procedure that should almost never happen.  In 2013, an abortionist in Philadelphia was convicted of murder for cutting the spinal cords of infants after they were out of the womb.  The sick morality of it is:  If he had followed the normal procedure and cut their spinal cord while the babies were still in the womb, that would have been OK and he would still be a respected person in the eyes of many pro-choice voters.

I think abortion will always be legal in the US and most other democratic countries and I think pro-life groups have failed because they have not also been strongly pro-contraception.  However, I don't understand how any Christian (or any other person who believes in a God who cares about each one of us) can also believe it is OK to kill an infant that would live outside the womb.

Abortion may be legal, but Christians should not be afraid to say it is wrong - especially late term abortions.  I am still a U2 fan, but they will lose some fans over this.  Being a rock star and making statements against Trump (who I also don't like) or  statements is favor of pro-liberal causes isn't being brave... In fact, it is being cliche.  When U2 has the bravery to stand up against something that is politically correct, I will have a lot more respect for their political opinions.

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I don't think anyone is suggesting that late abortion is remotely right unless it is on real medical grounds?.  I thought the Irish thing was for abortions less than 12 weeks? 

I am definitely pro choice but it doesn't mean that I think that abortion should be used as a means of contraception.  That idea is rather abhorrent to be honest.  Yes there should be education into the ways of preventing an unwanted pregnancy to begin with as that surely is not freaking rocket science and if a pregnancy occurs then appropriate support for all involved in coming to the right choice for the situation. 

I am quite sure that Bono is not advocating late abortions and cutting of spinal cords.  I am not a Christian or at all religious and the thought of that sickens me to be honest.

« Last Edit: May 31, 2018, 11:52:55 PM by summerholly »

Offline ian ryan

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And now weíre getting too far into self-proclaiming and making moral declarations. Please donít continue with the personal political commentary.

Offline jick

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People have different opinions on different issues. Even the band members will disagree on many issues.

So this happens to be one issue where Rowen disagrees with U2. Some journalist just wanted to make news out of a tweet.

At the end of the day, Rowen will still get invited to those private or personal events if the band and they'll still be friends. It's a non-issue really. Since when is it breaking news to have different views?

Cheers,

J

Offline goldtoad

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The only reason this is controversial is because so many of U2's songs have spiritual and Christian themes.  Bono has publicly discussed his Christian faith many times, so I would be interested to hear his comments on this.  Many liberal Christians support abortion rights, so there is disagreement on this topic among Christians too.  Because it is such an emotional hot button issue, it may be one of the rare times when Bono will act more like Adam and Larry and not say too much.