Author Topic: The Real Reason U2 is Hated  (Read 2836 times)

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Offline dwaltman

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Re: The Real Reason U2 is Hated
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2018, 05:48:24 AM »
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In regards to U2's influence on other bands, I will focus for now on their influence in live performance.

The following bands Ive seen either before they have been an Opener for U2 or as an opener, and then see them as performer after they have toured/opened with U2:

Kings of Leon
Muse
Arcade Fire
The Killers

With all these bands, there was a clear growth spurt as performers pre vs post touring with U2. They suddenly changed from Musicians playing their songs to the best of their abilities, into artists who crafted an show and experience as a whole. Muse, Killers and Arcade Fire may have been the biggest and most pronounced change that I have witnessed. I've seen a decent amount of concerts, and very few artists craft an overall experience. The majority just perform their songs (quite brilliantly in many cases) and sometimes their might be more than lights going on for that song. Muse morphed from that, to incorporating spectacle and stage wizardry that overshadowed them ALOT, to using technology to craft a show that complimented the music and show as a whole. Each step of the way I saw them and saw clearly where they were picking things up from U2. Arcade Fire's latest tour is great, and you can clearly see the resemblances to Popmart and ZooTV. It is also much more of a show and the manner in which they engaged the audience had picked up (previously they would have moves/tactics, and perform more to each other than to the audience), whereas the previous tours they simply had backdrops and they would do great things like march into the audience which is a common performance tactic.

Each time I would see these artists I would see them after they had toured with U2 and could see/feel the difference their live performance. This ranged from little details to how they used technology and more.

The Pixies,I cannot say that I noticed a difference pre and post opening for U2. I think they had already developed their own sense of live performance.

Great take and analysis. I’ve seen KOL and AF and would agree with your assessment, especially with AF and the most recent tour.  I’d like to see the Killers.

I saw the Pixies open for U2 but only Frank Black solo after so not a fair comparison.

I feel Coldplay’s live setup is influenced by U2 as well but then U2 keeps pushing the boundaries of live performing, leaving everyone else behind. Although Roger Waters show is similar in design to the SOI/SOE tours....not sure who was touring first.


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Offline Lebowski

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Re: The Real Reason U2 is Hated
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2018, 07:12:57 AM »
Bono is both a major reason why they are so popular and why some hate them so much.  Just about everybody I know who doesn't like U2 cites their dislike of Bono as the reason why, and even a few friends who like them are put off by Bono more often than not (not his politics, but what they view as his arrogance and just the way he presents himself). I can see what people mean, but I always say, his perceived arrogance and "look at me" attitude is why he was always such a great front man.  He is one of those singers that you just can't take your eyes off when he is on stage.

Offline scrittoresabino

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Re: The Real Reason U2 is Hated
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2018, 11:30:21 AM »
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Bono is both a major reason why they are so popular and why some hate them so much.  Just about everybody I know who doesn't like U2 cites their dislike of Bono as the reason why, and even a few friends who like them are put off by Bono more often than not (not his politics, but what they view as his arrogance and just the way he presents himself). I can see what people mean, but I always say, his perceived arrogance and "look at me" attitude is why he was always such a great front man.  He is one of those singers that you just can't take your eyes off when he is on stage.

Very much agree on this assessment. I would go further and say this is very much a cultural thing. Expression that is bold is not viewed in a positive manner within rock, whether the is from the artist or within the audience. The exception is darkness or aggression. It is practically the opposite for urban culture, as well as non Caucasian or Asian cultures. The hate for Bono/U2 seems strongest in countries or communities that take on the view/reaction to automatically dislike anyone or thing that is considered too bold - subtley is often used as automatically better or at a higher level, darkness is also viewed as automatically being better. Yet in reality these are merely preferences that people use and assume mean something is better. You can see it in the manner these these preferences such as darkness are given elevated status or automatically viewed as being more intellectual merely due to its "darkness". These kind of "colors" or values that inherently have no right or wrong or status, are given false pretense and false value (whether praise or disdain)

Offline BlueSquirrel

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Re: The Real Reason U2 is Hated
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2018, 11:36:35 AM »
Let's add Keane / Tom Chaplin to the list of bands that were inspired by U2. ;)
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They've also opened for U2 by the way:
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I remember when the song "Is it any wonder" came out, it sounded so much like U2 that I thought it was an outtake from an older U2 album (even the guitar at the very beginning sounds Achtung Baby-inspired). It could be the most "U2 song" not actually written/performed by U2:
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They sometimes cover U2 as well :
That was last year (Tom Chaplin covering One while touring with his solo album):
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And here's Keane at Glastonbury covering With or Without you :
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« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 02:08:59 PM by BlueSquirrel »

Offline Luzita

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The Real Reason U2 is Hated
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2018, 11:36:59 AM »
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Bono is both a major reason why they are so popular and why some hate them so much.  Just about everybody I know who doesn't like U2 cites their dislike of Bono as the reason why, and even a few friends who like them are put off by Bono more often than not (not his politics, but what they view as his arrogance and just the way he presents himself). I can see what people mean, but I always say, his perceived arrogance and "look at me" attitude is why he was always such a great front man.  He is one of those singers that you just can't take your eyes off when he is on stage.
Bono gets hate from people who don’t actually know him and are just regurgitating Internet memes. Almost everyone who actually knows him loves the guy — from childhood friends who are still close to his bandmates of 40 years to his wife whom he’s been with about as long to fellow musicians like Springsteen, Bowie, Noel Gallagher. That proves he isn’t actually arrogant or a “p****” as the haters would have it. If he were he couldn’t sustain those relationships. I do think he’s an eccentric with a very unusual personality.


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Offline BlueSquirrel

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Re: The Real Reason U2 is Hated
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2018, 12:19:30 PM »
Another band that has been greatly influenced by U2 (and Radiohead) and who has also opened for U2 in the past is Starsailor. : You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
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They have covered All I want is you :
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And James Walsh (Starsailor's singer) has covered "Where the streets have no name" on his own a few times (I think he is currently touring by himseld at the moment, promoting his solo album) :
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« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 01:21:45 PM by BlueSquirrel »

Offline BlueSquirrel

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Re: The Real Reason U2 is Hated
« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2018, 01:44:33 PM »
Quote
Quote from: scrittoresabino on Today at 03:57:43 AM
In regards to U2's influence on other bands, I will focus for now on their influence in live performance.

The following bands Ive seen either before they have been an Opener for U2 or as an opener, and then see them as performer after they have toured/opened with U2:

Kings of Leon
Muse
Arcade Fire
The Killers

With all these bands, there was a clear growth spurt as performers pre vs post touring with U2. They suddenly changed from Musicians playing their songs to the best of their abilities, into artists who crafted an show and experience as a whole. Muse, Killers and Arcade Fire may have been the biggest and most pronounced change that I have witnessed. I've seen a decent amount of concerts, and very few artists craft an overall experience. The majority just perform their songs (quite brilliantly in many cases) and sometimes their might be more than lights going on for that song. Muse morphed from that, to incorporating spectacle and stage wizardry that overshadowed them ALOT, to using technology to craft a show that complimented the music and show as a whole. Each step of the way I saw them and saw clearly where they were picking things up from U2. Arcade Fire's latest tour is great, and you can clearly see the resemblances to Popmart and ZooTV. It is also much more of a show and the manner in which they engaged the audience had picked up (previously they would have moves/tactics, and perform more to each other than to the audience), whereas the previous tours they simply had backdrops and they would do great things like march into the audience which is a common performance tactic.

Each time I would see these artists I would see them after they had toured with U2 and could see/feel the difference their live performance. This ranged from little details to how they used technology and more.

The Pixies,I cannot say that I noticed a difference pre and post opening for U2. I think they had already developed their own sense of live performance.

Very interesting analysis!
I think it could be possible to add Placebo to the list. They have also opened a few times for U2 (I'm pretty sure it was during the Popmart Tour), learned from it and got even better live. Furthermore, according to French rock-specialized radio OuiFM, their album "Without you I'm nothing" - which was released just after they went on tour with U2 - was dubbed by critics "Without U2, I'm nothing" for its passion and exaltation which reminded people of U2 - for better or worse.

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« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 02:30:31 PM by BlueSquirrel »

Offline BlueSquirrel

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Re: The Real Reason U2 is Hated
« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2018, 02:08:09 PM »
U2's influence on Snow Patrol is less obvious but nevertheless real. They have been U2's support band 36 times [You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login ].

Concerning that experience, Snow Patrol's frontman Gary Lightbody told Belgian radio RTBF in 2011 (I'm quoting/translating this article :
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 "We opened for U2 in 2005, and then again during their last tour. It gave us the opportunity to understand the difference between what we were doing and a real concert." Indeed, they have learnt a lot since then and have filled much bigger venues such as the O2 arena in London which they are going to play next on February 10th."

In the past, they have covered a couple of U2 songs, including "Mysterious ways". BTW I think this version is totally different from the original but really worthy of praise:
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And only yesterday, they covered One on French TV show Taratata (you can watch it again here for five more days):
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« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 02:32:12 PM by BlueSquirrel »

Offline GoldenStateGirl

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Re: The Real Reason U2 is Hated
« Reply #23 on: May 26, 2018, 09:56:02 PM »
I quite like Coldplay. They don’t have The Edge, which gives them a much softer feel. I think Bono’s myth is bigger than he is, which irritates people. But I love him to death and find his shortcomings hilarious.

For what it’s worth, after seeing U2 live, I am a MUCH better fitness instructor (I teach Body Pump and indoor cycling).   There is some kind of “Bono effect” that lingers.  It makes me want to inspire people and raise them up. He is just magical.  I guess the word is charismatic?

Offline Clarky

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Re: The Real Reason U2 is Hated
« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2018, 04:52:42 AM »
The only reason I can see why people generally seem to have a dismissive/disdainful reaction to U2 is because of Bono. He's obviously a personality with a propensity to sound pompous, paired with the fact that they see him as being a hypocrite for all the causes he stands for. Pretty much all of it is far off the mark, but it doesn't matter. The perception has well and truly been ingrained into the zeitgeist. I don't wish Bono was any different, but I feel that if he had kept his mouth shut and didn't speak in a way that made him sound pretentious, U2 would be held in a more higher regard by the common person.

Offline Luzita

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The Real Reason U2 is Hated
« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2018, 11:02:48 AM »
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The only reason I can see why people generally seem to have a dismissive/disdainful reaction to U2 is because of Bono. He's obviously a personality with a propensity to sound pompous, paired with the fact that they see him as being a hypocrite for all the causes he stands for. Pretty much all of it is far off the mark, but it doesn't matter. The perception has well and truly been ingrained into the zeitgeist. I don't wish Bono was any different, but I feel that if he had kept his mouth shut and didn't speak in a way that made him sound pretentious, U2 would be held in a more higher regard by the common person.
If you want Bono to keep his mouth shut, then you  *are* wishing for him to be someone other than who he is. Also, whether or not bad perceptions of U2 have been “well and truly ingrained into the zeitgeist” depends a lot on where you live. It seems to be much more true in the British Isles than elsewhere.

Also, I think that negative attitudes towards Bono are indeed related to his politics. It’s true there are aspects of his personality that can come over as pompous, but whether people perceive him that way is strongly affected by whether they have been primed to perceive him that way. There have always been some who have been hostile towards Bono and U2 for being “too good” but those attitudes seem to have become widespread — in certain countries — only towards the tail end of the 2000s, right after Bono’s social activism went big time. The more effective he became at making a positive, large-scale difference in the lives of those dying of starvation and AIDS, the more that certain people decided to hate him and fill media and social media with attacks on his “pompousness” and “hypocrisy.” Unfortunately, a large segment of the public don’t really think for themselves so they just follow along.


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« Last Edit: May 27, 2018, 01:29:40 PM by Luzita »

Offline scrittoresabino

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Re: The Real Reason U2 is Hated
« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2018, 01:33:48 PM »
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... Unfortunately, a large segment of the public don’t really think for themselves so they just follow along.

That statement rings true on the nonpolitical hatred as well. I remember when Songs of Innocence came out. The first string of tweets and social media response to the free download with more jokey in tone. The verbiage was taking pot shots, but not alltogether hateful or completely negative. That escalated quickly. It turn from mere joked to vitriol REALLY fast. Additionally, publications and people followed the downward spiral. From the same sources that may have been more positive at the beginning (or not nearly as negative) they were suddenly voicing much more negative fodder, getting worse and worse. It's click bait.

Interesting thing is how far people will go to join the mob. People and a few scarce publications would write/say things like "How dare you violate my privacy, and download your putrid noise you call music onto my Samsung Galaxy ## etc."  People and publications actually stooped to this level 1) make things up 2) turn something small into something monstrous, in order to be in on the joke and join the mob

How can I say this was made up and claim its hyperbole:
1) It was only available on iOS and people ignorant to this fact were foolish enough to mention the non-Apple device they found it on. (additionally I know several Apple haters who never touched an Apple device join in on this hate)
2) It was a link, not wasn't automatically downloaded unless you actively pressed the option to download.

Once something becomes a fad, many people just want to be a part of it.

Offline Luzita

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Re: The Real Reason U2 is Hated
« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2018, 07:00:30 PM »
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... Unfortunately, a large segment of the public don’t really think for themselves so they just follow along.

That statement rings true on the nonpolitical hatred as well. I remember when Songs of Innocence came out. The first string of tweets and social media response to the free download with more jokey in tone. The verbiage was taking pot shots, but not alltogether hateful or completely negative. That escalated quickly. It turn from mere joked to vitriol REALLY fast. Additionally, publications and people followed the downward spiral. From the same sources that may have been more positive at the beginning (or not nearly as negative) they were suddenly voicing much more negative fodder, getting worse and worse. It's click bait.

Interesting thing is how far people will go to join the mob. People and a few scarce publications would write/say things like "How dare you violate my privacy, and download your putrid noise you call music onto my Samsung Galaxy ## etc."  People and publications actually stooped to this level 1) make things up 2) turn something small into something monstrous, in order to be in on the joke and join the mob

How can I say this was made up and claim its hyperbole:
1) It was only available on iOS and people ignorant to this fact were foolish enough to mention the non-Apple device they found it on. (additionally I know several Apple haters who never touched an Apple device join in on this hate)
2) It was a link, not wasn't automatically downloaded unless you actively pressed the option to download.

Once something becomes a fad, many people just want to be a part of it.
I really don’t understand the whole Apple thing. Maybe I’m too old to get it, but I strongly suspect the degree of outrage has been overblown. Like you say, it’s a fad. When SOE came out, few publications or websites seemed able to mention SOI without harping on the awfulness of the free download.

How absurd that people jumped on board with complaints that couldn’t be true. That may be partly the mob mentality at work but I think it’s also the troll mentality. Something about the web just brings out the worst in people.


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Offline scrittoresabino

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Re: The Real Reason U2 is Hated
« Reply #28 on: May 27, 2018, 07:25:45 PM »
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... Unfortunately, a large segment of the public don’t really think for themselves so they just follow along.

That statement rings true on the nonpolitical hatred as well. I remember when Songs of Innocence came out. The first string of tweets and social media response to the free download with more jokey in tone. The verbiage was taking pot shots, but not alltogether hateful or completely negative. That escalated quickly. It turn from mere joked to vitriol REALLY fast. Additionally, publications and people followed the downward spiral. From the same sources that may have been more positive at the beginning (or not nearly as negative) they were suddenly voicing much more negative fodder, getting worse and worse. It's click bait.

Interesting thing is how far people will go to join the mob. People and a few scarce publications would write/say things like "How dare you violate my privacy, and download your putrid noise you call music onto my Samsung Galaxy ## etc."  People and publications actually stooped to this level 1) make things up 2) turn something small into something monstrous, in order to be in on the joke and join the mob

How can I say this was made up and claim its hyperbole:
1) It was only available on iOS and people ignorant to this fact were foolish enough to mention the non-Apple device they found it on. (additionally I know several Apple haters who never touched an Apple device join in on this hate)
2) It was a link, not wasn't automatically downloaded unless you actively pressed the option to download.

Once something becomes a fad, many people just want to be a part of it.
I really don’t understand the whole Apple thing. Maybe I’m too old to get it, but I strongly suspect the degree of outrage has been overblown. Like you say, it’s a fad. When SOE came out, few publications or websites seemed able to mention SOI without harping on the awfulness of the free download.

How absurd that people jumped on board with complaints that couldn’t be true. That may be partly the mob mentality at work but I think it’s also the troll mentality. Something about the web just brings out the worst in people.

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its as simple as, the free download was only available to people who own iOS/Apple products, yet people were claiming to have the "crap U2 album forced on them" on their Android device, which was NOT possible... thus a huge piece of evidence suggesting/showing mob mentality. It's like someone trying to make a kryptonite joke in relation to Spiderman... dude that makes no sense, its not only the wrong superhero, its the wrong universe. Or, like someone claiming they got some happy meal toy from Burger King, that is exclusive to McDonalds. Or giving Frodo a red or blue pill... sorry, got carried away, having too much fun with finding ridiculous incorrect world mashups.

But you already got the idea on your post :)
« Last Edit: May 27, 2018, 07:38:00 PM by scrittoresabino »

Offline b-mata

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Re: The Real Reason U2 is Hated
« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2018, 09:17:01 AM »
This article doesn't touch on your original topic of the post necessarily... but it is definitley related.

The 15 Best Songs From This Century That Wouldn't Exist Without U2:
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