Author Topic: What do Innocence and Experience mean for the purposes of SOI/SOE? (Spoilers)  (Read 624 times)

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Offline JTNash

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I was just thinking a near death experience would cause one to be reborn in a way, maybe regaining some innocence right!

Offline shineinthesummernight

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It's interesting to me to think of Bono as a very rich man---three nice homes, can travel whenever he wants, etc.  Yet he seems to retain a sense of groundedness, against all odds maybe.  He also seems extremely kind to his fans and always willing to think of those who suffer or are less fortunate.

Offline JTNash

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Rich maybe that’s part of innocence to him not all the money not all the fame, how he saw the world before all that, maybe that’s what he’s trying to keep

Online laoghaire

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I didn't see i+e and I don't have a great sense of space in the Yt videos. Am I correct in my understanding that there is a stage with the letter e on it in lights? The "experience" stage?

And if so, what songs do they play on this stage?

From the set list, I see the first set up until UTEOTW as being innocence songs. Not to say that they don't have dark subjects but the narrator is cast in an innocent or righteous light.

UTEOTW has redemption but there is a betrayal before that redemption. So it is a bit of a tone change.

HMTMKMKM intermission shows the dive into darkness by the narrator (though there is, as almost always, redemption at the end there too). I wish I could see this, and the original video, better. Do you guys know how mind blowing it is? The original video has Bono run over by rock and roll and put into the hospital, to emerge as MacPhisto. Is it not a perfect reference today?

Do you guys see the Faustian bargains going on? It's foreshadowed in The Ocean of all songs. Is your mind not blown? I keep asking about the nature of the waters in the videos, especially UTEOTW, for this reason. Is it God's judgment, the flood, or is it healing? Is every breaking wave a violent distraction or the power of God that sweeps us off our feet?

So where are Elevation, Vertigo, Desire, and Acrobat played - by any chance the e stage? What about UTEOTW?

Elevation always struck me as not a dark song, but one could recast it. Adam as Icarus flies too close to the sun and is burned. (Staring at the sun, perhaps). Perhaps he was elevated not in spirit (God) but in a more Satanic way, with riches and fame. Elevation will still mean what it always meant to me but you can reread the song in this light: who exactly elevates them?

Vertigo flirts with the devil - but is redeemed.

Desire is all devil - we know the answer to "for love or money?"

Acrobat shows Bono is full MacPhisto but he's been wearing the hat for these songs.

Do they move stages for YTBTAM? That's the other transition, on the other side of it.

After that is SATS, which is critical of personal blindness but not Satanic. We're in the "listen up, America" part of the show here. Pride is the goal, GOOYOW is the prescription, AS is the plea. We end on COBL, the beautiful New York.

One is a reminder, LIBTAIIW is the spirit lifter, 13 is the prayer.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2018, 05:21:17 PM by laoghaire »

Offline Lizard

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This might contain some spoilers - so if you don't want to know too much about the shows - as I read that you haven't seen them yet - don't read it.

It's interesting to look at the shows from that light.
Edge talks a little bit about the ideas behind the setlist in the latest Rolling stone interview.
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What I just noticed from looking at videos is how Bono's outfit changes. He wears the simple black denim jacket during the first part of the show - until the intermission. After the intermisstion he comes back with the Macphisto clothing - a shiny showjacket and so on. This he keeps wearing even after Macphisto is gone during Staring at the sun, Pride, etc. The only difference to Macphisto being that the hat is gone, the make up is wiped away and a little pin with a peace sign on the jacket.

Later on for the encore he comes back with the simple black denim clothing - back to basics - back to innocence (?) What do you thing?

Online laoghaire

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I 100% want spoilers. This is a lot to wrap one's mind around. I don't hear or see well so I'll miss most things I'm not looking for. Only seeing one show, from the back of the uppers. I'm doing my homework so I get the most out of it.

Love your observation about the costume - specifically that MacPhisto is not completely discarded all at once, but only mostly, and peace made with the remains. And fully discarded by the encore.

Thanks for the RS link - heard a few references around here but hadn't read it yet.

Offline JTNash

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One thing to remember is U2 are super smart and clever and also just do things because they want to or because it looks cool or sounds cool.

So while some things may have sage wisdoms and artistry other are just cos.


Offline Johnny Feathers

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I think, if you live long enough, "experience" can also mean jadedness.  You get your heart broken, you end up closing yourself off from future experiences that could break your heart again.  People disappoint you, and you close yourself off from people in the process.  In the context of a rock band, "experience" may mean losing touch with what inspired you to play music in the first place.  "Innocence", in this context, means rediscovering your inspiration, or allowing yourself to be vulnerable so that you can still connect with other people.  I think all of that comes into play in the show.  The light bulb motif is a pretty nice way to put it, especially when I realized that the light bulb shatters during the climax of UTEOTW, and is eventually found again in Bono's childhood home.

Online laoghaire

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Really great thoughts.

Floodwaters come out of the shattered bulb and nearly drown them. Then the wrong people show up to help.

Offline Lizard

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The observation with the lightbulb shattering at the end of the innocence part is great.
I'm just not sure whether it is really the wrong people showing up to offer help, rather than getting helped by letting someone make his own experiences ... later to come back ... wiser and experienced....
Great topic anyway.