Author Topic: Does liking Pop and Zooropa go hand in hand with liking SOI and NLOTH?  (Read 757 times)

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Offline fodiktet

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I wonder this because SOI and NLOTH seem to be the band's most interesting and adventurous albums since the 90's (HTDAAB and SOE, ATYCLB are safe sounding
 and less interesting to me).

I've come across quite a few people who adore 90's U2 that also think that NLOTH and SOI are the band's best albums of the 21st century. So this seems to support my claim.

I also agree with this opinion, I myself think they are the 2 best albums since Pop.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 01:36:16 AM by fodiktet »



Offline TongueInMyEar

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Re: Does liking Pop and Zooropa go hand in hand with liking SOI and NLOTH?
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2018, 02:25:18 AM »
Not for me. I don't dislike NLOTH or SOI but they are down near the bottom of my U2 list, whereas Pop and Zooropa are top half, as are ATYCLB and SOE.

I can hear NLOTH was an attempt at a more adventurous route again, but as many say the middle trio of songs spoil it. Even though I've grown to enjoy the individual songs they're just out of place with the vibe of the rest of the album. I suspect if they'd stuck with that overall sound it would be higher on my list (I really love title track, Fez, MOS, Cedars, White as Snow and Breathe).

Offline Rasmus

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Re: Does liking Pop and Zooropa go hand in hand with liking SOI and NLOTH?
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2018, 06:17:46 AM »
I can see the logic in your argument but my personal perspective is a bit different.

I love Pop and Zooropa and they are both definetly top 5 U2 albums for me, and can even battle in the top 3. Regarding NLOTH it is the lowest scoring on my list of U2 albums. Not because I dont like the experimentation on the album but because it stands for me as the ultimate example of an album with wasted potential. Unlike the U2 on Pop and Zooropa, the U2 on NLOTH didnt have the confidence (or desire?) to go all the way. Songs like Cedars and the best one, Fez, show the potential that the album had if U2 had made their "African" album and gone all the way. Instead what we have is a schizophrenic album that is both experimental and extremely safe - that many songs are also quite weak in my opinion doesnt help. If U2 had the guts that they had in the 90's I believe NLOTH could have been great. Regarding SOI it is my favorite album from them in since Pop. This is mostly based on the second half of the album with great songs like RBW, TIWYCRMN, SLAB and The Troubles. I dont see it as a masterpiece and it has some clunkers but overall it is a good and somewhat underrated album in my opinion.

« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 06:21:17 AM by Rasmus »

Offline BONO31

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Re: Does liking Pop and Zooropa go hand in hand with liking SOI and NLOTH?
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2018, 06:30:58 AM »
I'm a huge fan of the 90s and I agree with you about "No Line On The Horizon"
but NOT about "Songs of Innocence". I was very disappointed by this record, and still am. My favorite songs on it are the ones Danger Mouse produced alone like "Invisible", "Sleep like a baby tonight", "This is where you can reach me now"...
I wish I liked it more, but I'm never listening to it.

To me, "Songs of Experience" is far more interesting and experimental than "Songs of Innocence",
whether you like it or not, songs like "The Blackout", "Lights of Home", "Love is all we have left", "The Book of your heart", "Summer of love", "Love is bigger than anything in its way" or even "The Best Thing" (in a more subtle way) are very experimental.

"Songs of Experience" is, for me, the best album since "PoP". When I first heard it, I was very surprised. And one year on, I'm still fascinated by the different sounds and musical structure of the album.

Offline fodiktet

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Re: Does liking Pop and Zooropa go hand in hand with liking SOI and NLOTH?
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2018, 12:50:19 PM »
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Regarding SOI it is my favorite album from them in since Pop. This is mostly based on the second half of the album with great songs like RBW, TIWYCRMN, SLAB and The Troubles.

Agree, for me the second half is their strongest since Achtung Baby 
« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 12:52:08 PM by fodiktet »

Offline fodiktet

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Re: Does liking Pop and Zooropa go hand in hand with liking SOI and NLOTH?
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2018, 12:57:02 PM »
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I'm a huge fan of the 90s and I agree with you about "No Line On The Horizon"
but NOT about "Songs of Innocence". I was very disappointed by this record, and still am. My favorite songs on it are the ones Danger Mouse produced alone like "Invisible", "Sleep like a baby tonight", "This is where you can reach me now"...
I wish I liked it more, but I'm never listening to it.

To me, "Songs of Experience" is far more interesting and experimental than "Songs of Innocence",
whether you like it or not, songs like "The Blackout", "Lights of Home", "Love is all we have left", "The Book of your heart", "Summer of love", "Love is bigger than anything in its way" or even "The Best Thing" (in a more subtle way) are very experimental.

"Songs of Experience" is, for me, the best album since "PoP". When I first heard it, I was very surprised. And one year on, I'm still fascinated by the different sounds and musical structure of the album.


disagree the songs on SOE are bland and forced, they are just the band desperately trying to appeal to the kids, sound modern and make radio hits, they are embarrassing, lyric wise and the songwriting is overly derived and cliche. Also many of the songs on SOE are over-produced especially the Blackout which is ruined by watered down production.   
« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 12:59:03 PM by fodiktet »

Offline Tortuga

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Re: Does liking Pop and Zooropa go hand in hand with liking SOI and NLOTH?
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2018, 05:55:54 PM »
Pop, Zooropa, SOI, and SOE are probably my bottom 4 U2 albums so I donít think it works with me.  I am a fan of NLOTH, I just shorten and leave out the three that donít belong.  The rest of it is good enough to make it good.  Quality over quantity.


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Offline Argo

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Re: Does liking Pop and Zooropa go hand in hand with liking SOI and NLOTH?
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2018, 06:04:20 PM »
Hmmm, interesting question. Pop is top 3 for me and SOI probably 4th. Zooropa is too inconsistent (I just don't rate Wanderer, Babyface, Daddy's Gonna Pay at all). NLOTH is probably similarly inconsistent mainly because they put the boring songs on it (SUC, Boots, Crazy) rather than pushing the more innovative theme that comes through in Fez, MOS, and others but overall, I do like it.

So, Pop and SOI definitely go hand in hand as top material, whilst Zooropa and NLOTH go hand in hand for inconsistent brilliance (although it is probably the more adventurous songs off Zooropa and the less adventurous songs off NLOTH that i don't like.

I also agree with the comment about SOE being bland and forced. I still listen to it and like some of the songs but it has aged very quickly with me.

Offline shineinthesummernight

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Re: Does liking Pop and Zooropa go hand in hand with liking SOI and NLOTH?
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2018, 07:03:32 PM »
I love NLOTH, but for me it goes more hand in hand with SOE.  I just think that SOE is a more consistent effort with some attempts at new and different territory.  I would compare NLOTH to TUF or October in its atmospheric moments and spiritual lyrics.

Offline BONO31

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Re: Does liking Pop and Zooropa go hand in hand with liking SOI and NLOTH?
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2018, 12:57:38 AM »
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I'm a huge fan of the 90s and I agree with you about "No Line On The Horizon"
but NOT about "Songs of Innocence". I was very disappointed by this record, and still am. My favorite songs on it are the ones Danger Mouse produced alone like "Invisible", "Sleep like a baby tonight", "This is where you can reach me now"...
I wish I liked it more, but I'm never listening to it.

To me, "Songs of Experience" is far more interesting and experimental than "Songs of Innocence",
whether you like it or not, songs like "The Blackout", "Lights of Home", "Love is all we have left", "The Book of your heart", "Summer of love", "Love is bigger than anything in its way" or even "The Best Thing" (in a more subtle way) are very experimental.

"Songs of Experience" is, for me, the best album since "PoP". When I first heard it, I was very surprised. And one year on, I'm still fascinated by the different sounds and musical structure of the album.


disagree the songs on SOE are bland and forced, they are just the band desperately trying to appeal to the kids, sound modern and make radio hits, they are embarrassing, lyric wise and the songwriting is overly derived and cliche. Also many of the songs on SOE are over-produced especially the Blackout which is ruined by watered down production.
My God, "The Blackout" especially is the most experimental song of the two albums, and you don't like it! You were talking about the 90s, the most experimental part of the band history, and you feel like "The Blackout" is over-produced!

Can you hear the dinosaur on the song? Can you hear the weight of the dinosaur steps through Adam's bassline? Can you hear the dinosaur's shouting through the edge's guitar? Can you hear U2 embrassing their destiny as a dinosaur band? It's brilliant in my ears!!!

You also mentionned the fact U2 want to please the kids, I heard those critics by the past when the band released "Pop" and "Achtung Baby". I was a kid when I became a U2 fan, and I'm glad the band were making radio hits, so I had the chance to discover them. Now, I'm 38, and I still like and admire the fact U2 want to sound fresh and modern.
 

Offline Tortuga

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Re: Does liking Pop and Zooropa go hand in hand with liking SOI and NLOTH?
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2018, 06:30:23 AM »
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I'm a huge fan of the 90s and I agree with you about "No Line On The Horizon"
but NOT about "Songs of Innocence". I was very disappointed by this record, and still am. My favorite songs on it are the ones Danger Mouse produced alone like "Invisible", "Sleep like a baby tonight", "This is where you can reach me now"...
I wish I liked it more, but I'm never listening to it.

To me, "Songs of Experience" is far more interesting and experimental than "Songs of Innocence",
whether you like it or not, songs like "The Blackout", "Lights of Home", "Love is all we have left", "The Book of your heart", "Summer of love", "Love is bigger than anything in its way" or even "The Best Thing" (in a more subtle way) are very experimental.

"Songs of Experience" is, for me, the best album since "PoP". When I first heard it, I was very surprised. And one year on, I'm still fascinated by the different sounds and musical structure of the album.


disagree the songs on SOE are bland and forced, they are just the band desperately trying to appeal to the kids, sound modern and make radio hits, they are embarrassing, lyric wise and the songwriting is overly derived and cliche. Also many of the songs on SOE are over-produced especially the Blackout which is ruined by watered down production.
My God, "The Blackout" especially is the most experimental song of the two albums, and you don't like it! You were talking about the 90s, the most experimental part of the band history, and you feel like "The Blackout" is over-produced!

Can you hear the dinosaur on the song? Can you hear the weight of the dinosaur steps through Adam's bassline? Can you hear the dinosaur's shouting through the edge's guitar? Can you hear U2 embrassing their destiny as a dinosaur band? It's brilliant in my ears!!!

You also mentionned the fact U2 want to please the kids, I heard those critics by the past when the band released "Pop" and "Achtung Baby". I was a kid when I became a U2 fan, and I'm glad the band were making radio hits, so I had the chance to discover them. Now, I'm 38, and I still like and admire the fact U2 want to sound fresh and modern.

Nothing wrong with sounding fresh and modern.  Thatís exactly how U2 sounded on the JT.  They didnít sound like anything else on the radio.  SOE sounds like a collage of everything else on the radio.

Vocoder/autotune effect
Obligatory guest rapper
Trite last minute shoe-horned in Trump comments
Trite call-backs to bandís own past


I am a dedicated U2 fan but SOE just was a real disappointment for me.  The sound and production are one thing but thatís a minor issue.  The real problem for me is that the lyrics are the same lyrics heís been writing since ATYCLB (excepting a break for NLOTH) and the tunes are repetitive and boring.  Its not so much that its bad as it is that they are in a rut and Iím bored with it.  They kept me interested for thirty years.  Thatís more than most other bands.  But Iím still hoping there is more to come.





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Offline BONO31

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Re: Does liking Pop and Zooropa go hand in hand with liking SOI and NLOTH?
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2018, 07:32:52 AM »
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I'm a huge fan of the 90s and I agree with you about "No Line On The Horizon"
but NOT about "Songs of Innocence". I was very disappointed by this record, and still am. My favorite songs on it are the ones Danger Mouse produced alone like "Invisible", "Sleep like a baby tonight", "This is where you can reach me now"...
I wish I liked it more, but I'm never listening to it.

To me, "Songs of Experience" is far more interesting and experimental than "Songs of Innocence",
whether you like it or not, songs like "The Blackout", "Lights of Home", "Love is all we have left", "The Book of your heart", "Summer of love", "Love is bigger than anything in its way" or even "The Best Thing" (in a more subtle way) are very experimental.

"Songs of Experience" is, for me, the best album since "PoP". When I first heard it, I was very surprised. And one year on, I'm still fascinated by the different sounds and musical structure of the album.


disagree the songs on SOE are bland and forced, they are just the band desperately trying to appeal to the kids, sound modern and make radio hits, they are embarrassing, lyric wise and the songwriting is overly derived and cliche. Also many of the songs on SOE are over-produced especially the Blackout which is ruined by watered down production.
My God, "The Blackout" especially is the most experimental song of the two albums, and you don't like it! You were talking about the 90s, the most experimental part of the band history, and you feel like "The Blackout" is over-produced!

Can you hear the dinosaur on the song? Can you hear the weight of the dinosaur steps through Adam's bassline? Can you hear the dinosaur's shouting through the edge's guitar? Can you hear U2 embrassing their destiny as a dinosaur band? It's brilliant in my ears!!!

You also mentionned the fact U2 want to please the kids, I heard those critics by the past when the band released "Pop" and "Achtung Baby". I was a kid when I became a U2 fan, and I'm glad the band were making radio hits, so I had the chance to discover them. Now, I'm 38, and I still like and admire the fact U2 want to sound fresh and modern.

Nothing wrong with sounding fresh and modern.  Thatís exactly how U2 sounded on the JT.  They didnít sound like anything else on the radio.  SOE sounds like a collage of everything else on the radio.

Vocoder/autotune effect
Obligatory guest rapper
Trite last minute shoe-horned in Trump comments
Trite call-backs to bandís own past


I am a dedicated U2 fan but SOE just was a real disappointment for me.  The sound and production are one thing but thatís a minor issue.  The real problem for me is that the lyrics are the same lyrics heís been writing since ATYCLB (excepting a break for NLOTH) and the tunes are repetitive and boring.  Its not so much that its bad as it is that they are in a rut and Iím bored with it.  They kept me interested for thirty years.  Thatís more than most other bands.  But Iím still hoping there is more to come.





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I can totally understand that you donít like SOE.
In fact, itís a matter of taste!
We feel the music first, and then, analyse why we like it or not.
So, Iím not trying to convince anyone that Experience is a masterpiece,
BUT the arguments about the lyrics being the same for years are simply not true:
ę I have everything but I feel like nothing at all Ľ
ę I shouldn't be there cause I should be dead Ľ
ę Sometimes I canít believe my existence
See myself from a distance Ľ
Are some very direct and honest lyrics never heard before from our favorite band.

Now, once again, youíre disappointed by SOE
And I understand it very well as I felt the same thing about SOI,
youíre waiting for something more...

Offline Tortuga

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Re: Does liking Pop and Zooropa go hand in hand with liking SOI and NLOTH?
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2018, 12:36:21 PM »

ę I have everything but I feel like nothing at all Ľ

ďIím already gone, felt that way all alongĒ....I could come up with more.  Its a pretty vague lyric.

These two:

ę I shouldn't be there cause I should be dead Ľ

ę Sometimes I canít believe my existence
See myself from a distance Ľ

I interpret as reflections on mortality, which has been a recurring topic many times on U2 albums from Boy to SOE.  Granted, early thoughts were focused on loss of others, but by the time of ATYCLB (Kite, One Step Closer) the focus had shifted to self mortality.  This was twenty years ago!  All this talk of Bonoís brush with death and this album being some kind of brutally earth-shaking honest reflection of that is overdone, IMHO.  Most of us start contemplating our own mortality as adults with the death of our elderly parents, which you saw on ATYCLB with the illness of his dad and contemplation that he wasnít going to be around much longer.

I just canít see any of SOI or SOE as new fresh themes we havenít heard before.  Mortality is not a new theme for U2.  Just off the top of my head:

Tomorrow
October
Kite
One Step Closer
Iris

And Iím not saying nothing can ever be said again.  My point is there is nothing really new in the music OR the lyrics on SOI or SOE and I am hungry for them to dream it all up again.


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Offline shineinthesummernight

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Re: Does liking Pop and Zooropa go hand in hand with liking SOI and NLOTH?
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2018, 03:32:48 PM »
The lyrics on SOE felt quite personal to me.  A very up-front and honest look at mortality and grace.

Offline Tortuga

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Re: Does liking Pop and Zooropa go hand in hand with liking SOI and NLOTH?
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2018, 06:40:48 PM »
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The lyrics on SOE felt quite personal to me.  A very up-front and honest look at mortality and grace.
Can one of you explain what you mean by ďhonestĒ in this context?  We all know weíre all going to die.  Itís not something we hide or try to convince ourselves its not true.  Its undeniable.  Do you mean being honest about how he feels about dying?  Is that something people are normally dishonest about?  I mean, I think for the most part we all think it sucks.  At best its a release from the sh**ty condition we all get in with age.  I donít know anyone that has ever told me they are looking forward to dying, outside of someone suffering from illness or grief.  What is it that you feel Bono is being honest about that is something unique enough that you find it inspiring?  Or do you just mean openly confronting it?  Iíve been doing that for years.  Is that why I donít ďgetĒ SOE?  Is that why U2ís earlier exploration of mortality didnít bore me but this one does?  Am I at a point where Iíve come to terms with death five albums ago and some of you are just now really contemplating it? (Because youíre younger or just never thought about it.). To me this is all reruns but to others it seems like its all something new. 


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