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51
General U2 Discussion / Re: Songs Of Experience sales in the United States
« Last post by Tortuga on July 17, 2018, 10:58:19 PM »
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Thanks, wons.  These are sobering stats.  I have been fascinated by this thread because it offers a glimpse of how many of "us" there are out there.  A dwindling amount, it appears.

My pleasure! So 319,000 people purchased the album in either a physical or digital format. A much smaller group of people either streamed or puchased individual tracks from the album equivalent to maybe another 30,000 albums sold. Billboard considers the sale of 10 individual track downloads to = One album sold. Billboard considers 1,500 streams = to One Album sold.

The POP album was considered a poor seller back in 1997 by U2's standards and industry standards at the time. But at least everyone who purchased a ticket for POPMART purchased one copy of the POP album. I'm not exactly sure about this, but it seems like only 1/2 or 1/3 of the people who went to see the Experience Tour purchased the album or listened to it. That seems odd considering that most of the fanbase knows a tour like this is not a nostalgia event but is about the new album primarily.

Wons,

Iíve asked this before but you never answered.  By default, didnít EVERYONE who bought a ticket for E&I buy the CD as well?  Or are you saying the 319,000 includes those sales and there were 400K to 600K who bought tickets.   Meaning only 1/3 to 1/2 redeemed their included CD,  less the people who didnít buy tickets but bought the CD.


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No.

Only a fraction of the people who purchased TICKETS for the tour got the album in a digital or physical format FROM their TICKET PURCHASE. That number, is then added to sales of the album that occurred, 1. through online stores for digital formats and physical formats and 2.  people who went to a physical store to pick up a physical copy of the album.

So album sales came from three sources:
1. Album/ticket bundle
2. online sales of digital and physical formats
3. Physical stores selling a physical copy of the album

All 3 of those combine for a total of 319,000 in sales.

The number of tickets sold for the tour in the United States was 438,059. I don't know the exact figure, but it could be as little as 50,000 of ticket buyers redeeming the album and getting in digital or physical format with the purchase of the ticket.

One important thing is, you could NOT use the ticket purchase to get DELUXE album version of the album. The only way to get the DELUXE version of the album was to purchase it from an online store or a physical store.

Personally, I'm responsible for 3 of the albums in the 319,000 album total since I purchased the DELUXE version of the album at the local record store and then redeemed each of the two tickets I purchased for a copy of the album. The copy of the album offered is just the regular album with only 13 tracks. I kept one and gave the other one away.


Its not clear what the exact breakdown of the 319,000 is in terms of what and how people got their albums. I might be able to dig up some of that data for the first week of sales which were 180,000, more than half the total. The breaking down between physical vs digital formats is probably 50/50.


I hope that makes it clear.

So, to me, that just indicates that my preferences are not uncommon.  There are a lot of people out there that have no use for a physical disc.  I canít remember if my ticket offered a digital download or CD, but I think it was just CD.



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Every person who purchased a ticket had the option to get the album in digital format or physical format. All sales are physical and digital combined. My argument here has NEVER been about CD's(which you mysteriously continue to talk about) or specifically any physical product. A digital album sold is the same as a physical cd or record sold. What is not the same is streaming.

Your preference though is to stream the music which is NOT the same as purchasing the album in a digital format. Purchasing the album, regardless of format is all the same. Streaming is an entirely different thing.

90% of the people, which does not include YOU, purchased this album in either a digital or physical format. Your group, the streamers, comprise less than 10% of the people who have listened to the album.

So when it comes to U2 fans who have listened to Songs Of Experience, your preference for streaming as opposed to purchasing the album, is very uncommon.

I do realize digital copy and CD is the same as far as sales.  Thatís why I asked if a digital copy or CD was offered with the ticket.

So you have your answer then donít you?  A large percentage of the fans who went to the show are uninterested in the new album.  I donít really find that surprising.  Most people that go to shows like U2 are going for legacy reasons.  The latest album has not received alot of mainstream attention.


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For most of U2's career, the new album and whether it was successful or not played the primary factor in whether the tour was a success. U2 had their first downturn with the POPMART tour and it was because the POP album was poorly received. The next three albums and did very well though and so did their tours. This is the first tour U2 has ever done where the number of fans who purchased or listened to the album was less than the number of fans that purchased a ticket for the tour. For POP and POPMART it was one for one. But typically, album sales have always been greater than ticket sales.

So unfortunately it appears that the legacy factor is for the first time dominating things over the new album which is not good news for the band. It shows that overall interest in the band is dwindling. While some "legacy acts" do record business, most get stuck playing the local farm show or town festival. Its not the ideal place to be. The ideal is having new music that brings in new fans, old fans, and everything in between + the legacy factor. That is when the business incredible or record breaking like on the Vertigo Tour and the 360 tour.

Still, selling 319,000 copies of an album in 2017/2018 is not bad at all. Justin Timberlake's latest has only done a little over 400,000. The sad fact is most people are not even listening to albums in any format anymore. Their just listening to individual songs, a couple from this artist, a couple from that artist. Technology has killed the album regardless of the format it is in. That's not good for artist in the future, because individual songs are not a very good basis for building fandom and getting fans to spend $100 dollars a ticket or more to come to a show. As the public becomes less invested in any particular artist, they become less likely to support concert performances. Why go see a band or artist when you only like or listen to two of their songs? The public is starting to place LESS VALUE on music in general, and even less value on the artist that produce the music.

But U2 are an album band! They always have been. That means they produce albums that from first track to last, are fantastic with no filler. It takes incredible talent to be able to do that. People use to appreciate that, but not anymore it seems.

Still, I hope U2 do not lose heart and realize that they still have a very dedicated following that is interested in their new music and generally prefer the album/tour cycle that is based around new music which is what the band has always been about.

U2 is a long way from being a state fair act!  They could still produce some more top notch albums but its not going to last forever obviously.

100 or 200 years from now people will look back and see 1940 to 2030 (or so) as the age of the recording star.  Technology first made it possible, and then eliminated it.


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52
General U2 Discussion / Re: Songs Of Experience sales in the United States
« Last post by wons on July 17, 2018, 10:50:41 PM »
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Thanks, wons.  These are sobering stats.  I have been fascinated by this thread because it offers a glimpse of how many of "us" there are out there.  A dwindling amount, it appears.

My pleasure! So 319,000 people purchased the album in either a physical or digital format. A much smaller group of people either streamed or puchased individual tracks from the album equivalent to maybe another 30,000 albums sold. Billboard considers the sale of 10 individual track downloads to = One album sold. Billboard considers 1,500 streams = to One Album sold.

The POP album was considered a poor seller back in 1997 by U2's standards and industry standards at the time. But at least everyone who purchased a ticket for POPMART purchased one copy of the POP album. I'm not exactly sure about this, but it seems like only 1/2 or 1/3 of the people who went to see the Experience Tour purchased the album or listened to it. That seems odd considering that most of the fanbase knows a tour like this is not a nostalgia event but is about the new album primarily.

Wons,

Iíve asked this before but you never answered.  By default, didnít EVERYONE who bought a ticket for E&I buy the CD as well?  Or are you saying the 319,000 includes those sales and there were 400K to 600K who bought tickets.   Meaning only 1/3 to 1/2 redeemed their included CD,  less the people who didnít buy tickets but bought the CD.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No.

Only a fraction of the people who purchased TICKETS for the tour got the album in a digital or physical format FROM their TICKET PURCHASE. That number, is then added to sales of the album that occurred, 1. through online stores for digital formats and physical formats and 2.  people who went to a physical store to pick up a physical copy of the album.

So album sales came from three sources:
1. Album/ticket bundle
2. online sales of digital and physical formats
3. Physical stores selling a physical copy of the album

All 3 of those combine for a total of 319,000 in sales.

The number of tickets sold for the tour in the United States was 438,059. I don't know the exact figure, but it could be as little as 50,000 of ticket buyers redeeming the album and getting in digital or physical format with the purchase of the ticket.

One important thing is, you could NOT use the ticket purchase to get DELUXE album version of the album. The only way to get the DELUXE version of the album was to purchase it from an online store or a physical store.

Personally, I'm responsible for 3 of the albums in the 319,000 album total since I purchased the DELUXE version of the album at the local record store and then redeemed each of the two tickets I purchased for a copy of the album. The copy of the album offered is just the regular album with only 13 tracks. I kept one and gave the other one away.


Its not clear what the exact breakdown of the 319,000 is in terms of what and how people got their albums. I might be able to dig up some of that data for the first week of sales which were 180,000, more than half the total. The breaking down between physical vs digital formats is probably 50/50.


I hope that makes it clear.

So, to me, that just indicates that my preferences are not uncommon.  There are a lot of people out there that have no use for a physical disc.  I canít remember if my ticket offered a digital download or CD, but I think it was just CD.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Every person who purchased a ticket had the option to get the album in digital format or physical format. All sales are physical and digital combined. My argument here has NEVER been about CD's(which you mysteriously continue to talk about) or specifically any physical product. A digital album sold is the same as a physical cd or record sold. What is not the same is streaming.

Your preference though is to stream the music which is NOT the same as purchasing the album in a digital format. Purchasing the album, regardless of format is all the same. Streaming is an entirely different thing.

90% of the people, which does not include YOU, purchased this album in either a digital or physical format. Your group, the streamers, comprise less than 10% of the people who have listened to the album.

So when it comes to U2 fans who have listened to Songs Of Experience, your preference for streaming as opposed to purchasing the album, is very uncommon.

I do realize digital copy and CD is the same as far as sales.  Thatís why I asked if a digital copy or CD was offered with the ticket.

So you have your answer then donít you?  A large percentage of the fans who went to the show are uninterested in the new album.  I donít really find that surprising.  Most people that go to shows like U2 are going for legacy reasons.  The latest album has not received alot of mainstream attention.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

For most of U2's career, the new album and whether it was successful or not played the primary factor in whether the tour was a success. U2 had their first downturn with the POPMART tour and it was because the POP album was poorly received. The next three albums and did very well though and so did their tours. This is the first tour U2 has ever done where the number of fans who purchased or listened to the album was less than the number of fans that purchased a ticket for the tour. For POP and POPMART it was one for one. But typically, album sales have always been greater than ticket sales.

So unfortunately it appears that the legacy factor is for the first time dominating things over the new album which is not good news for the band. It shows that overall interest in the band is dwindling. While some "legacy acts" do record business, most get stuck playing the local farm show or town festival. Its not the ideal place to be. The ideal is having new music that brings in new fans, old fans, and everything in between + the legacy factor. That is when the business incredible or record breaking like on the Vertigo Tour and the 360 tour.

Still, selling 319,000 copies of an album in 2017/2018 is not bad at all. Justin Timberlake's latest has only done a little over 400,000. The sad fact is most people are not even listening to albums in any format anymore. Their just listening to individual songs, a couple from this artist, a couple from that artist. Technology has killed the album regardless of the format it is in. That's not good for artist in the future, because individual songs are not a very good basis for building fandom and getting fans to spend $100 dollars a ticket or more to come to a show. As the public becomes less invested in any particular artist, they become less likely to support concert performances. Why go see a band or artist when you only like or listen to two of their songs? The public is starting to place LESS VALUE on music in general, and even less value on the artist that produce the music.

But U2 are an album band! They always have been. That means they produce albums that from first track to last, are fantastic with no filler. It takes incredible talent to be able to do that. People use to appreciate that, but not anymore it seems.

Still, I hope U2 do not lose heart and realize that they still have a very dedicated following that is interested in their new music and generally prefer the album/tour cycle that is based around new music which is what the band has always been about.
53
Tours / Re: Spoiler: Opener and closing song of 2018 Leg 1
« Last post by U2alwaysforever on July 17, 2018, 09:54:03 PM »
Touche. Good reminder.
54
Tours / Re: Why LiveNation?
« Last post by laoghaire on July 17, 2018, 09:39:58 PM »
Thank you. So I'm realizing the 360 tour was under this contract. Both parties must have been very, very happy there. I don't know how well I+E or JT30 did, but I'm guessing JT30 at least was reasonably profitable. I loved the E+I show but I'm guessing $$$-wise it was not a big success, and the marked down tickets are going to be a problem in the minds of us fans. I don't know a thing about the fan club but I've heard complaints - but maybe that's par for the course.
55
I think it 100% depends on how good the song is live. For example my mind was changed on Unkown caller, Ultraviolet, and Volcano because those songs were brilliant live.
56
The Music and Lyrics / North Star and Mercy
« Last post by Allhorizonbomb on July 17, 2018, 05:53:01 PM »
I would just like to start a debate that when U2 played North Star into Mercy on the 360 tour it may have been the best two song combo they've ever done. Thoughts?
57
The Music and Lyrics / Re: Is Little Things what Mercy became?
« Last post by Allhorizonbomb on July 17, 2018, 05:49:28 PM »
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The one place I see, and hope that Mercy will be released is on a Best of 2000-20whatever in the future.  I can't see it being on Songs Of Ascent, if that ever happens.  For the record, I hope the full version of Invisible is on that too, but I guess I'm getting off track here.

Oh God I could only hope. What if it's that compilations special single like Electrical Storm, Sweetest Thing, or Window in the Skies. I think that would be cool.
58
The Music and Lyrics / Re: Is Little Things what Mercy became?
« Last post by Allhorizonbomb on July 17, 2018, 05:46:06 PM »
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Well, it's 10 times the song Mercy is regardless of its origin.

That level of exaggeration causes me to vehemently disagree with you, even though I'm perfectly ok with people have differing opinions to me. Mercy is the better song IMO.

Yeah I'm going to have to side with the pro Mercy side. I would even put it in their top 20 songs along with North Star. Remember when those songs got played back to back on the 360 tour, best two song combo they've ever had besides maybe Running to Stand Still and bullet. Will those two songs ever be released, no. Are they they best two songs they've written since Achtung Baby, yes.
59
Tours / Re: **SPOILERS** General audience emotional high point on E&I tour
« Last post by Allhorizonbomb on July 17, 2018, 05:40:21 PM »
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I really hope the Europe leg of the tour has a major shake up in the set list.

Ditch all the ďLove/Hate AmericaĒ songs (SATS, Pride, GOOYOW, American Soul) and the rehash section of Cedarwood Road-SBSunday needs to go.

The encore needs a punch as well. Other than Acrobat, a lot of this set is really uninspired.
A few things I would do...
*new acoustic song to replace SATS (do something interesting here we havenít heard(.
*bring in Ultra-Violet instead of Beautiful Day
*WGRY Wild Horses needs to be permanent!
*I would bring back Streets (never mind all of this it wonít fit the theme of the show nonsense)
*Ditch All Because of You for good.
*City of Blinding Lights is not nearly good enough to keep returning to the sets every other tour.

What about this for a set;

Love Is All We Have Left
The Blackout
Lights Of Home
Ultra-Violet (Light My Way)
I Will Follow
The Electric Co.
Gloria
Red Flag Day
The Unforgettable Fire
Until The End Of The World

(Intermission)

Zoo Station
Vertigo
Desire
Acrobat
Youíre The Best Thing About Me
Please (acoustic)
A Sort Of Homecoming
Bad
Where The Streets Have No Name
The Little Things That Give You Away

(Encore)
Whoís Gonna Ride Your Wild Horses?
Landlady
One
Every Breaking Wave
Love Is Bigger Than Anything In Itís Way


I'm going to have to disagree with you hear. In leu of no Streets I think City of Blinding Lights filled the spot rather well. Much better than in years past.
60
The Music and Lyrics / Re: Rattle and Hum: Retrospective
« Last post by dirtdrybonesandstone on July 17, 2018, 05:35:45 PM »
Heartland by a long shot.   Too bad it didnít get a deserving spot on TJT.    There are others that are first rate U2 (Desire, GP2, AOH).    Definitely didnít care for Helter Skelter though, nor the live versions from TJT.   Makes it hard to listen to.

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