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U2 => General U2 Discussion => Topic started by: The Exile on April 13, 2017, 02:47:28 PM

Title: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on April 13, 2017, 02:47:28 PM
Recent developments such as the Kendrick Lamar collab and the JT30 Tour have made me realize how diametrically opposed U2's entire approach is to what I wish it were.

At this stage in the band's career -- with millions of albums sold and a live track record that is second to none -- U2 should not be scouring the music world searching for the hippest acts they can find in order to ingratiate themselves with kids who weren't even born when Beautiful Day came out.

It's beneath them, and they should know it and act like it. They should be way more elitist.

The coolest thing for U2 to do (or, to have been doing) is to continue making daring, artistically challenging music for their fans and touring that music in theaters and other smaller venues. They started out as an underground, hard-to-pigeonhole type of band -- kind of like a secret known to this tribe of die-hard followers. They've had unparalleled success since then, and they should do the respectable thing and naturally recede back into something more subtle and underground.

If they did, people would respect and admire them even if they're not into their music. But in a few days what will happen is a bunch of kids who like rap will be moaning about how these old guys are ruining a song by one of the best rappers out there.

I know, I know: It's too late, and U2 is what it is. But it just depresses me to see them tarnish their legacy by all this hat-in-hand pandering.

</rant>
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Blueyedboy on April 13, 2017, 02:52:24 PM
Exile, it's not 1997 any longer. Move on.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on April 13, 2017, 02:54:17 PM
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Exile, it's not 1997 any longer. Move on.

Ironic, as it seems to me that it's U2 who need to be reminded of what year we're in....
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Spacejunk69 on April 13, 2017, 03:00:26 PM
Couldn't agree more Exile.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: monopoly on April 13, 2017, 03:08:26 PM
the JT tour which I will be seeing 3 times is the only thing that gave me a little confusion since it goes against what they've always said but whatever, it's a u2 show and I won't miss it. They did s collaboration with Swiss beatz and Kanye awhile back so it's not completely shocking. I'm just a little worried as to what the song will sound like since I've heard a mix of bad and good songs by lamar. Kygo isn't so much a surprise either since they did work with RedOne but the lyrics were a little schocking since they were so pop.

There was a great interview on another fansite with a guy who got pulled on stage. And he said something that really stuck with me. It was basically that "u2's greatest songs and performances have already been done. The new stuff might not be their greatest but it is definitely good- if not great." And he mentioned how they do it also for the fans
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: two hearts on April 13, 2017, 03:09:33 PM
Absolutely spot on Exile
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Blueyedboy on April 13, 2017, 03:23:05 PM
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Exile, it's not 1997 any longer. Move on.

Ironic, as it seems to me that it's U2 who need to be reminded of what year we're in....

But you're a very knowledgeable guy on all things U2 right? This collaboration is a symptom of the bands journey down Relevance Street over the last 20yrs.

Being offended by this as yet unheard track after what has gone before its closing the gate after the horse has bolted.

For what is worth, I think that this move is a pretty bold one by their standards, despite what the output may be.
We consistently ask for a daring U2 who don't worry about the concensus on these forum pages, but then whine about what some unkown bunch of kids will think when they do something out of the ordinary.
Who'd want to be in a rock band!
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Messenger on April 13, 2017, 03:24:43 PM
I hope all these posts are not edited if/when it turns out that the Kendrick song is not a horrible embarrassing mistake (though I'm sure some people, fans of both artists and people in general, are convinced it could never be anything but).

Anyway, to me it sounds like Exile is elitist enough for the band and most of their fans too. I completely get that being a lifelong hardcore fan of U2 is a precious thing but it doesn't do anyone any good to be so possessive about it.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: an tha on April 13, 2017, 03:31:21 PM
U2 can't help themselves - they have to make grand statements and be 'omnipresent'... it is admirable in one way because of the scale of their ambition but there is a down side.

Ironically it is the desire to be huge and be everything to everyman that brought them to such prominence and fired the engine of their artistic creativity... but for me it is that same desire that has led to the massive drop off in the artistic curve over the last 20 years and it is all related to the fact that art of real intellectual depth does not make it with the masses in the way u2 want and therefore u2 have increasingly moved away from their natural alternative roots and instincts to a safer and more mainstream output in the hope of staying in favour....

The worst thing that ever happened to u2 in my view is ATYCLB being succesful - it convinced the band that was the way forward and they have been chasing the same thing ever since with diminishing returns.

Ironically the moments where they for me have been closest to their brilliant best are the moments where they have stepped away from the middle of the road or stopped trying to make pop rock songs for everyman - but the band are scared stiff of pushing that side of themselves....

Where was SLABT on the last tour? SFS though was there every night.....it says it all.

Whenever I think about an example of what kind of artistic approach I would like to see u2 take I always come back to one or two artists...PJ Harvey and Radiohead being the most relevant.

They may not be getting the 'hits' but they are making music that their fans are spellbound by and is critically acclaimed and it is music that is deep, experimental, mature and often off kilter.

u2 crave and seem to need to be 'huge' - I would argue a huge portion of their fan base crave the same thing, Joe Public will only like dumbed down u2 now ala Vertigo, Elevation et al - and the band know this - so the safe, MOR incarnation of the band we have nowadays..eager to please and trying to appeal to everyman is here to stay.

It is why they come out with statements like 'we can set off fireworks in the studio, but that is too easy, we want to write songs' (or words to that effect)....which is just a way of justifying writing vapid, uninspired stuff like SFS and not challenging themselves and their audience with something off piste!....People lap it up too talking about 'it is song craft' etc...u2 know this so keep churning it out on auto pilot.

To be fair to them though getting involved with a rapper can be seen as a brave step and an away from the middle of the road step but the question is why take the step - is it because rap and this rapper especially is actually the mainstream now and by being involved with him it is actually u2 again chasing being popular with the masses?

It can't be easy being u2 and choosing the path to take....I personally wonder if they would benefit from just taking the path that their natural instincts takes them on (as i suspect they don't although that is just my opinion) rather than the one i suspect they walk...namely the one that they think will garner the most publicity/sales/adulation/relevance etc.

It is an interesting subject and discussion point though.


Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: fardreamer on April 13, 2017, 04:17:22 PM
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Recent developments such as the Kendrick Lamar collab and the JT30 Tour have made me realize how diametrically opposed U2's entire approach is to what I wish it were.

At this stage in the band's career -- with millions of albums sold and a live track record that is second to none -- U2 should not be scouring the music world searching for the hippest acts they can find in order to ingratiate themselves with kids who weren't even born when Beautiful Day came out.

It's beneath them, and they should know it and act like it. They should be way more elitist.

The coolest thing for U2 to do (or, to have been doing) is to continue making daring, artistically challenging music for their fans and touring that music in theaters and other smaller venues. They started out as an underground, hard-to-pigeonhole type of band -- kind of like a secret known to this tribe of die-hard followers. They've had unparalleled success since then, and they should do the respectable thing and naturally recede back into something more subtle and underground.

If they did, people would respect and admire them even if they're not into their music. But in a few days what will happen is a bunch of kids who like rap will be moaning about how these old guys are ruining a song by one of the best rappers out there.

I know, I know: It's too late, and U2 is what it is. But it just depresses me to see them tarnish their legacy by all this hat-in-hand pandering.

</rant>

I tend to agree with pretty much all of this.

It's one of the reasons I loved SOI and all of the controversy surrounding it's release. But then they backed down which was sad.

I like my U2 controversial and in your face.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on April 13, 2017, 04:21:03 PM
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Exile, it's not 1997 any longer. Move on.

Ironic, as it seems to me that it's U2 who need to be reminded of what year we're in....

But you're a very knowledgeable guy on all things U2 right? This collaboration is a symptom of the bands journey down Relevance Street over the last 20yrs.

Being offended by this as yet unheard track after what has gone before its closing the gate after the horse has bolted.

For what is worth, I think that this move is a pretty bold one by their standards, despite what the output may be.
We consistently ask for a daring U2 who don't worry about the concensus on these forum pages, but then whine about what some unkown bunch of kids will think when they do something out of the ordinary.
Who'd want to be in a rock band!

My post is not the result of "being offended by this [Kendrick Lamar] track," it's about the trajectory the band has been on for years (meaning I agree with you that this is an ongoing problem).

And yeah, I do "consistently ask for a daring U2," but I don't consider it daring to pander to people or team up with whomever is the flavor of the month. What would be daring is making music that they like, and trust that those with sophisticated enough taste will like it too.

U2 should see themselves as 23 year Pappy Van Winkle, but instead they act like Amstel Lite.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on April 13, 2017, 04:29:47 PM
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... it sounds like Exile is elitist enough for the band and most of their fans too. I completely get that being a lifelong hardcore fan of U2 is a precious thing but it doesn't do anyone any good to be so possessive about it.

Let's not devolve into personal insults.

But yeah, I am an elitist of sorts. I think U2 is better than Coldplay, better than Katy Perry, and better than Fetty Wap. I think they are tarnishing their legacy by desperately pining to be popular. It's like they have PLEASE LIKE US painted across their chests, and it's kinda unseemly.

Like many of us, I have invested the majority of my life (not to mention plenty of money) into my U2 fandom. While I wouldn't say they owe me anything, I can still mourn when I see them collaborate with Wyclef Jean or Missy Elliot.

To anyone outside this forum I am a fierce U2 defender. But this should be a safe place to rant every now and then.
Title: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: DoYouFeelLoved on April 13, 2017, 04:41:02 PM
I agree with Exile's vision, also An Tha has made very good points, so I don't think I can throw in anything more than they've already said.
I'm just very concerned for what would become of their legacy once they call it quits, since they've done a hell of great job to destroy it with bad songs and cringey moves during the last decade...
New generations of rock music fans don't care about them (although this is a complex matter and most likely not even completely due to U2's fault but due to music fans mentality more than anything...)

Being "huge" doesn't grant you the respect of music fans... Same old mistake they've been doing for over 15 years and still going...
Title: Re: Please, U2, Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: WookieeWarrior10 on April 13, 2017, 04:51:51 PM
You're exactly right, Exile. U2 is a 40+ year-old band begging for relevance and not acting their age at all. Songs like Song For Someone are pathetic and sad attempts at hits. Songs that sound immature and childish. Why is that? Because that is the demographic that U2 are trying desperately trying to reach out to-- children. Why they won't wisen up and accept that chart success is pretty much impossible to reach at this point is beyond me.

Look at Radiohead, for example. Mature group that makes music for themselves and their fans. They're smart enough to realize that they won't ever be as popular as they were 15+ years ago and don't even bother themselves with the charts anymore. You can't force yourself to make a certain genre of music and expect success. It's okay to experiment with other genres, like U2 did with club/dance in the 90s, for example, but working strictly from a formula is not going to result in genuine artistic expression. That's why many fans have issue with U2's recent attempts at pop music with tracks like Crazy Tonight, etc... none of it sounds genuine or "real" anymore.

I'm not trying to say that U2 is a band of dumb people. Bono is a very smart man. Edge is a very smart man. Adam and Larry are very smart men. It's time that U2 grew up and embraced this opportunity in life to create music for fun and for themselves. What other bands have existed for such a long time and with the same lineup? Very few of them do stick together, and even fewer continue to make records... even if U2 only make them bidecenially (if that's even a word). Bono and Co. are finically set for life and have no other reasons to create music other than for themselves, fans, and their legacy. In the autumn of their careers, and potentially their lives, why don't they just loosen up and record music for the fun of it? Do you think that Larry started this group with the goal in mind to appease millions of young teenagers? Absolutely not. U2 started this band with the goal in mind to be different and unique. Why did this attitude towards music change so suddenly?

There is nothing genuine to The Best Thing. Nothing feels truly heartfelt about Every Breaking Wave. Even the "emotion-driven" Iris sounds watered-down and weak due to overproduction and overpolish... but that's a different conservation. All of this ties together, doesn't it?
Title: Re: Please, U2, Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on April 13, 2017, 04:57:04 PM
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Look at Radiohead, for example. Mature group that makes music for themselves and their fans. They're smart enough to realize that they won't ever be as popular as they were 15+ years ago and don't even bother themselves with the charts anymore.

And despite this, at Key Arena the other night they were basically pulled back onstage by the crowd for an unplanned 3rd encore where they played Fake Plastic Trees. It was unreal.
Title: Re: Please, U2, Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: WookieeWarrior10 on April 13, 2017, 05:02:17 PM
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Look at Radiohead, for example. Mature group that makes music for themselves and their fans. They're smart enough to realize that they won't ever be as popular as they were 15+ years ago and don't even bother themselves with the charts anymore.

And despite this, at Key Arena the other night they were basically pulled back onstage by the crowd for an unplanned 3rd encore where they played Fake Plastic Trees. It was unreal.
Sounds like an incredible experience. You were there, right? I think you mentioned going to see them in another thread.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Neil Young, man! on April 13, 2017, 05:05:21 PM
Good thread. I agree with Exile and his supporters. It is time for dignity. Whether or not this rapper collaborations churns out a good song or not, there is a lot of damage to be repaired. More Troubles and SLABT - the band still has it but is focused on relevance and commercial success which is undignified at this point in my opinion.
Title: Re: Please, U2, Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Neil Young, man! on April 13, 2017, 05:08:05 PM
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Look at Radiohead, for example. Mature group that makes music for themselves and their fans. They're smart enough to realize that they won't ever be as popular as they were 15+ years ago and don't even bother themselves with the charts anymore.

And despite this, at Key Arena the other night they were basically pulled back onstage by the crowd for an unplanned 3rd encore where they played Fake Plastic Trees. It was unreal.
Sounds like an incredible experience. You were there, right? I think you mentioned going to see them in another thread.
Adam posted very positive words on fb from Radiohead's gig last year. Surely he too must have been thinking 'this is what we should be doing'. Fake plastic trees, sounds amazimg.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: imaginary friend on April 13, 2017, 05:28:06 PM
start your own bands, show 'em how it's done.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: il_capo on April 13, 2017, 05:41:47 PM
I agree that U2 have been trying too hard to remain a mainstream act but given their immense popularity I think theyíd sustain their commercial success if they were to try and create more artistically authentic records.  Even in the USA I think thatíd be the case Ė I donít think theyíd have another Popmart experience there.  They have such a legacy now that they will draw sell-out shows all over the world for the rest of their careers.

I have been very impressed with recent records by the artists mentioned here Ė the last Radiohead album was spectacular.  The irony is that U2 didnít start out trying to make records that appealed to a perceived mainstream marketplace.  They made incredibly brave choices, with October and TUF in particular, trusting that theyíd be able to take their fans with them.  With Radiohead it is the other way round Ė they made compromises to become big, e.g. promoting Creep repeatedly to break into the mainstream.  Radiohead have done something good with their success, whilst at the same time U2 seem to have become frightened of taking risks.   But perhaps their artistic wells have just dried up?  Bono had to go back to his adolescence to find inspiration for the past record, and musically nothing on it was truly original. 

I donít think the success of ATYCLB is to blame for this.  I mean, the records that came after it didnít exactly set the world on fire, so theyíve had plenty of warnings that everything is not right about their approach.  I do think theyíve been trying to emulate the success of singles such a Beautiful Day and Vertigo, however, which is disappointing.  Perhaps they see these songs as models of what a middle-aged group can achieve; they probably donít think they are relevant, young and hungry enough to create another With or Without You or Mofo.

But instead of complaining we should be grateful we got 2 great decades of creative music from U2 - how many other artists have produced so consistently for as long? - and hope they may come up with more.  They are still a spectacular live act as well, and I remain hopeful for future recordings.

I should also say I donít agree that Joe Public will necessarily want dumbed down MOR music.  I think thereís been plenty of great records that the public have taken to.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: an tha on April 13, 2017, 05:56:54 PM
I'd say that u2 are probably caught in between their natural alternative leaning and their desire to remain big in the mainstream and what results from that is an uncertainty/a compromised sound.....NLOTH is probably the best example of that - on one hand you have the likes of Cedars of Lebanon and on the other Crazy Tonight.......polar opposites in just about every way and very much perfect polaroids of the band u2 in my view probably think they could be and the band they sadly think they should be...

Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: TheU2Ken on April 13, 2017, 06:03:14 PM
It would be one thing if U2 collabed with Drake. A boring artist who does nothing new and exciting.

But this is K Dot and the track rules.
Title: Re: Please, U2, Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on April 13, 2017, 06:08:19 PM
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Look at Radiohead, for example. Mature group that makes music for themselves and their fans. They're smart enough to realize that they won't ever be as popular as they were 15+ years ago and don't even bother themselves with the charts anymore.

And despite this, at Key Arena the other night they were basically pulled back onstage by the crowd for an unplanned 3rd encore where they played Fake Plastic Trees. It was unreal.
Sounds like an incredible experience. You were there, right? I think you mentioned going to see them in another thread.

Yeah, it was like 5 years to the day since the last time they played Seattle. Both shows were mindblowing.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on April 13, 2017, 06:12:45 PM
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It would be one thing if U2 collabed with Drake. A boring artist who does nothing new and exciting.

But this is K Dot and the track rules.

Is there a link to the leaked track? YouTube is full of rabbit trails.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Messenger on April 13, 2017, 06:17:44 PM
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... it sounds like Exile is elitist enough for the band and most of their fans too. I completely get that being a lifelong hardcore fan of U2 is a precious thing but it doesn't do anyone any good to be so possessive about it.

Let's not devolve into personal insults.

But yeah, I am an elitist of sorts. I think U2 is better than Coldplay, better than Katy Perry, and better than Fetty Wap. I think they are tarnishing their legacy by desperately pining to be popular. It's like they have PLEASE LIKE US painted across their chests, and it's kinda unseemly.

Like many of us, I have invested the majority of my life (not to mention plenty of money) into my U2 fandom. While I wouldn't say they owe me anything, I can still mourn when I see them collaborate with Wyclef Jean or Missy Elliot.

To anyone outside this forum I am a fierce U2 defender. But this should be a safe place to rant every now and then.

Fair enough. To each his own. I long ago stopped trying to defend U2 to people who don't like them. If I thought Bono was going to be dabbing onstage with Pitbull I would have preemptively felt the same way, but collaborating with Kendrick, like Jules says, ain't no f****** ballpark.

http://youtu.be/KCO-SBPTF5E?t=1m18s

Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Messenger on April 13, 2017, 06:18:24 PM
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It would be one thing if U2 collabed with Drake. A boring artist who does nothing new and exciting.

But this is K Dot and the track rules.

Is there a link to the leaked track? YouTube is full of rabbit trails.

It was in a tweet that @AtU2 retweeted but it's been taken down.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: an tha on April 13, 2017, 06:23:53 PM
Is sharing links of leaked music allowed on here/twitter?
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: TheU2Ken on April 13, 2017, 06:31:22 PM
Yea I was using that leak. Gonna wait for the album to drop to listen again.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Messenger on April 13, 2017, 06:40:34 PM
"Kids" aren't exactly whining.

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Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: georgemccauley on April 13, 2017, 07:37:29 PM
That's a great post, Exile and I think we can all relate to that post and share somewhat of a similar thought.

I think at this stage in U2's career, we all believe that they are still trying to be relevant and write the music that they hope will sell and appeal to the masses.... in doing this they will probably moving forward not write the music that they or us truly believe in.

When I think of this relevancy type topic for U2, I always think of All That You Can't Leave Behind. Right after their experimental phase they returned with probably the most pure collection of songs I can think of on one U2 album, songs like Walk on, Kite, Stuck In A Moment. They are all simple straightforward rock songs that always speak of an honest sincere place.

I believe they wrote that album with not a care in the world about what the outcome would be. That's why it's a bit disappointing to see Bono dabbling with rap artists etc.

SOE will really tell us a lot, I hope it will sound honest and feel like a band writing the music that they truly believe in, not to fill a purpose or to sell x amount.


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Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: tigerfan41 on April 13, 2017, 07:42:12 PM
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"Kids" aren't exactly whining.

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The reaction on Kendrick's Reddit (and on Twitter) has so far been overwhelmingly positive. I think some were expecting the song to be really terrible due to U2's involvement (U2 are thought of as an old, not so good band in many "kids" minds) and because it's actually a really solid track, they've sort of been blown away by it.

Now the U2 fans, on the other hand....might have a tougher time warming up to this song. A lot of this fanbase does not like rap. We tend to skew toward rock/alternative--you'll find a lot more U2 fans who also like bands like Radiohead than you will U2 fans who like Kanye, Kendrick, Drake etc.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Blueyedboy on April 13, 2017, 07:55:25 PM
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Exile, it's not 1997 any longer. Move on.

Ironic, as it seems to me that it's U2 who need to be reminded of what year we're in....

But you're a very knowledgeable guy on all things U2 right? This collaboration is a symptom of the bands journey down Relevance Street over the last 20yrs.

Being offended by this as yet unheard track after what has gone before its closing the gate after the horse has bolted.

For what is worth, I think that this move is a pretty bold one by their standards, despite what the output may be.
We consistently ask for a daring U2 who don't worry about the concensus on these forum pages, but then whine about what some unkown bunch of kids will think when they do something out of the ordinary.
Who'd want to be in a rock band!

My post is not the result of "being offended by this [Kendrick Lamar] track," it's about the trajectory the band has been on for years (meaning I agree with you that this is an ongoing problem).

And yeah, I do "consistently ask for a daring U2," but I don't consider it daring to pander to people or team up with whomever is the flavor of the month. What would be daring is making music that they like, and trust that those with sophisticated enough taste will like it too.

U2 should see themselves as 23 year Pappy Van Winkle, but instead they act like Amstel Lite.

I agree mostly, but the band's best work comes when they release their imagined shackles when releasing a track that isn't a "U2" release.

Its all about the quality of the music, regardless of how popular the collaborator may be. I'm not holding out much hope that the track will be career defining, but this is a very welcome sideways step from the predictable albums and re-revisiting of past songs/albums that seem to be the norm.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Spaderholic on April 13, 2017, 08:18:02 PM
I just want to be excited and surprised by U2 and their music again. SOI is one of my least favourite albums of theirs, I find it so bland, so uninspiring, so dull. Plus, I CANNOT STAND 99% of rap, so I very much doubt I'm going to enjoy the new collaboration with this Kendrick guy. Honestly, collaborating with a rapper is the most predictable, yawn-worthy things artists can do, imo, and I'm disappointed that U2 head down this acutely well-worn route. I'm not keen on long established acts doing collaborations with 'young, trendy' artists to try and be relevant but I'm not completely against it if it produces something interesting and exciting. I wouldn't mind them doing some stuff with Lorde or Charli XCX, for example. They're both very talented young singer/songwriters.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: monopoly on April 13, 2017, 08:30:33 PM
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"Kids" aren't exactly whining.

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The reaction on Kendrick's Reddit (and on Twitter) has so far been overwhelmingly positive. I think some were expecting the song to be really terrible due to U2's involvement (U2 are thought of as an old, not so good band in many "kids" minds) and because it's actually a really solid track, they've sort of been blown away by it.

Now the U2 fans, on the other hand....might have a tougher time warming up to this song. A lot of this fanbase does not like rap. We tend to skew toward rock/alternative--you'll find a lot more U2 fans who also like bands like Radiohead than you will U2 fans who like Kanye, Kendrick, Drake etc.

All the comments are proof that u2 isn't popular with the younger crowd though. They're are tweets of shock
Title: Re: Please, U2, Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: monopoly on April 13, 2017, 08:31:59 PM
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You're exactly right, Exile. U2 is a 40+ year-old band begging for relevance and not acting their age at all. Songs like Song For Someone are pathetic and sad attempts at hits. Songs that sound immature and childish. Why is that? Because that is the demographic that U2 are trying desperately trying to reach out to-- children. Why they won't wisen up and accept that chart success is pretty much impossible to reach at this point is beyond me.

Look at Radiohead, for example. Mature group that makes music for themselves and their fans. They're smart enough to realize that they won't ever be as popular as they were 15+ years ago and don't even bother themselves with the charts anymore. You can't force yourself to make a certain genre of music and expect success. It's okay to experiment with other genres, like U2 did with club/dance in the 90s, for example, but working strictly from a formula is not going to result in genuine artistic expression. That's why many fans have issue with U2's recent attempts at pop music with tracks like Crazy Tonight, etc... none of it sounds genuine or "real" anymore.

I'm not trying to say that U2 is a band of dumb people. Bono is a very smart man. Edge is a very smart man. Adam and Larry are very smart men. It's time that U2 grew up and embraced this opportunity in life to create music for fun and for themselves. What other bands have existed for such a long time and with the same lineup? Very few of them do stick together, and even fewer continue to make records... even if U2 only make them bidecenially (if that's even a word). Bono and Co. are finically set for life and have no other reasons to create music other than for themselves, fans, and their legacy. In the autumn of their careers, and potentially their lives, why don't they just loosen up and record music for the fun of it? Do you think that Larry started this group with the goal in mind to appease millions of young teenagers? Absolutely not. U2 started this band with the goal in mind to be different and unique. Why did this attitude towards music change so suddenly?

There is nothing genuine to The Best Thing. Nothing feels truly heartfelt about Every Breaking Wave. Even the "emotion-driven" Iris sounds watered-down and weak due to overproduction and overpolish... but that's a different conservation. All of this ties together, doesn't it?

I was following what you were saying until you mentioned every breaking wave. Unless you saw it last tour in person, I wouldn't expect you to have a different opinion. Live on piano is very raw and emotional. And the chorus actually catches on
Title: Re: Please, U2, Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: WookieeWarrior10 on April 13, 2017, 11:39:47 PM
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You're exactly right, Exile. U2 is a 40+ year-old band begging for relevance and not acting their age at all. Songs like Song For Someone are pathetic and sad attempts at hits. Songs that sound immature and childish. Why is that? Because that is the demographic that U2 are trying desperately trying to reach out to-- children. Why they won't wisen up and accept that chart success is pretty much impossible to reach at this point is beyond me.

Look at Radiohead, for example. Mature group that makes music for themselves and their fans. They're smart enough to realize that they won't ever be as popular as they were 15+ years ago and don't even bother themselves with the charts anymore. You can't force yourself to make a certain genre of music and expect success. It's okay to experiment with other genres, like U2 did with club/dance in the 90s, for example, but working strictly from a formula is not going to result in genuine artistic expression. That's why many fans have issue with U2's recent attempts at pop music with tracks like Crazy Tonight, etc... none of it sounds genuine or "real" anymore.

I'm not trying to say that U2 is a band of dumb people. Bono is a very smart man. Edge is a very smart man. Adam and Larry are very smart men. It's time that U2 grew up and embraced this opportunity in life to create music for fun and for themselves. What other bands have existed for such a long time and with the same lineup? Very few of them do stick together, and even fewer continue to make records... even if U2 only make them bidecenially (if that's even a word). Bono and Co. are finically set for life and have no other reasons to create music other than for themselves, fans, and their legacy. In the autumn of their careers, and potentially their lives, why don't they just loosen up and record music for the fun of it? Do you think that Larry started this group with the goal in mind to appease millions of young teenagers? Absolutely not. U2 started this band with the goal in mind to be different and unique. Why did this attitude towards music change so suddenly?

There is nothing genuine to The Best Thing. Nothing feels truly heartfelt about Every Breaking Wave. Even the "emotion-driven" Iris sounds watered-down and weak due to overproduction and overpolish... but that's a different conservation. All of this ties together, doesn't it?

I was following what you were saying until you mentioned every breaking wave. Unless you saw it last tour in person, I wouldn't expect you to have a different opinion. Live on piano is very raw and emotional. And the chorus actually catches on
Lyrically, I find the song largely unoffensive... and although I do find the live arrangement to be more organic than the unbearable album version, it still doesn't do much for me.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: xy on April 14, 2017, 01:31:47 AM
The Kendrick Lamar song, if the complainers actually listened to it, is ... good. Bono goes into his lower register, nice chorus and a sweet beat from Larry.

It's, you know, OK for U2 to work with people outside of pop and rock.

I always disliked the JT30 tour nostalgia, but if the rumours about Live Nation twisting their arm into doing this are true so be it.

Bring on SOE, I say.

Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: wraitii on April 14, 2017, 02:05:57 AM
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All the comments are proof that u2 isn't popular with the younger crowd though. They're are tweets of shock

Who cares, they started back in 1979 and have nothing to prove any more. How many acts active 1979-today could do a good feature on a track by an artist from a different genre? I feel like the only other one died early last year.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rik on April 14, 2017, 02:33:59 AM
It's a non-discussion. U2 are artists and have the freedom to do whatever they want. Up to the listener to like it or not.

Silly to state that they are on their knees. To what or whom actually? And who is to judge?
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: So Cruel on April 14, 2017, 09:15:19 AM
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It's a non-discussion. U2 are artists and have the freedom to do whatever they want. Up to the listener to like it or not.

Silly to state that they are on their knees. To what or whom actually? And who is to judge?

It's a U2 message board. We are allowed to express our opinions. I pretty much agree with everything Exile said.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Vox on April 14, 2017, 10:48:53 AM
I'd like to add that outside of the U2 fan community (I've seen a lot of "disgusting" and "obscene" and "disappointing" descriptors from within it), music fans, in general, seem very supportive of the band today.  I've seen more than a few comments out there saying, "oh yeah, U2 used to be cool -- they wrote stuff like 'Sunday Bloody Sunday,' and 'Bullet the Blue Sky,' -- I forgot U2 used to do stuff like that." 

I think for the first time in the "history of the internet" (that I remember, anyway), the overwhelming consensus is that U2, right now, are viewed as being "cool."  Granted, this may not mean much to you and me, since we're big U2 supporters, anyway, and probably don't care about that sort of stuff...  But you know it means an awful lot to U2...

My hope is that they ride this tide of public good-will through to the end of this nostalgia tour, and then strike while the iron is hot with a hard-hitting, edgy new album this fall.  It won't last forever.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: WookieeWarrior10 on April 14, 2017, 10:49:27 AM
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All the comments are proof that u2 isn't popular with the younger crowd though. They're are tweets of shock

Who cares, they started back in 1979 and have nothing to prove any more. How many acts active 1979-today could do a good feature on a track by an artist from a different genre? I feel like the only other one died early last year.
Better yet, it was 1976.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on April 14, 2017, 12:11:40 PM
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I just want to be excited and surprised by U2 and their music again. SOI is one of my least favourite albums of theirs, I find it so bland, so uninspiring, so dull. Plus, I CANNOT STAND 99% of rap, so I very much doubt I'm going to enjoy the new collaboration with this Kendrick guy. Honestly, collaborating with a rapper is the most predictable, yawn-worthy things artists can do, imo, and I'm disappointed that U2 head down this acutely well-worn route. I'm not keen on long established acts doing collaborations with 'young, trendy' artists to try and be relevant but I'm not completely against it if it produces something interesting and exciting. I wouldn't mind them doing some stuff with Lorde or Charli XCX, for example. They're both very talented young singer/songwriters.

Well having heard the track now, I must say it is different than I expected (which was that Bono would be "dueting" with Kendrick and rapping along with him which, thank God, he is not). It's more of an interlude or something, a break from the rap song during which a piano ballad is played.

It could've been much, much worse.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on April 14, 2017, 12:14:40 PM
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Silly to state that they are on their knees. To what or whom actually? And who is to judge?

If you read what I have written you would find your answer. You don't have to agree, of course (this is a forum), but to simply dismiss the idea as "silly" while offering zero actual rebuttal is kind of a waste of everyone's time.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Vox on April 14, 2017, 12:27:00 PM
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I just want to be excited and surprised by U2 and their music again. SOI is one of my least favourite albums of theirs, I find it so bland, so uninspiring, so dull. Plus, I CANNOT STAND 99% of rap, so I very much doubt I'm going to enjoy the new collaboration with this Kendrick guy. Honestly, collaborating with a rapper is the most predictable, yawn-worthy things artists can do, imo, and I'm disappointed that U2 head down this acutely well-worn route. I'm not keen on long established acts doing collaborations with 'young, trendy' artists to try and be relevant but I'm not completely against it if it produces something interesting and exciting. I wouldn't mind them doing some stuff with Lorde or Charli XCX, for example. They're both very talented young singer/songwriters.

Well having heard the track now, I must say it is different than I expected (which was that Bono would be "dueting" with Kendrick and rapping along with him which, thank God, he is not). It's more of an interlude or something, a break from the rap song during which a piano ballad is played.

It could've been much, much worse.

Agreed.  Don't like it when you feel worried, because then I worry too, baby.  It seems we're cut from a similar U2 cloth-- in our early 40s, big fans in the 80s, minds blown with Achtung Baby, etc.  The ideal age and times of fandom to be U2 fans, in my opinion.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: lucas.homem on April 14, 2017, 03:21:35 PM
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It's beneath them, and they should know it and act like it. They should be way more elitist.

Why do you think you are elit?
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Midnight is Where the Day Begins on April 14, 2017, 04:11:45 PM
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Recent developments such as the Kendrick Lamar collab and the JT30 Tour have made me realize how diametrically opposed U2's entire approach is to what I wish it were.

At this stage in the band's career -- with millions of albums sold and a live track record that is second to none -- U2 should not be scouring the music world searching for the hippest acts they can find in order to ingratiate themselves with kids who weren't even born when Beautiful Day came out.

It's beneath them, and they should know it and act like it. They should be way more elitist.

The coolest thing for U2 to do (or, to have been doing) is to continue making daring, artistically challenging music for their fans and touring that music in theaters and other smaller venues. They started out as an underground, hard-to-pigeonhole type of band -- kind of like a secret known to this tribe of die-hard followers. They've had unparalleled success since then, and they should do the respectable thing and naturally recede back into something more subtle and underground.

If they did, people would respect and admire them even if they're not into their music. But in a few days what will happen is a bunch of kids who like rap will be moaning about how these old guys are ruining a song by one of the best rappers out there.

I know, I know: It's too late, and U2 is what it is. But it just depresses me to see them tarnish their legacy by all this hat-in-hand pandering.

</rant>

You and me both would love if U2 just went and made music that wasn't for the masses, and that wasn't any sort of reach for relevancy. I would adore if they just put out a record because they truly think that the songs and the music are good enough to stand on it's own to anything they've done. I would love if they went and experimented more with things that were outside their comfort zones, leaving behind the 2000s U2 formula and going to find something where they don't know what it is.

They've tried in the last few years to not stay 100% safe. Songs of Innocence was probably the most interesting record they've done since Pop, going deep into their personal lives, and bringing Danger Mouse on for tracks like Troubles, Raised by Wolves, and Sleep Like a Baby Tonight. Even the Kendrick Lamar appearance, I see it as being different than most. They went and made a song with a man who isn't a huge radio friendly act (He's doesn't make hip-hop for radio really, rather a lot of it is more complex and intricate), but instead a critically acclaimed one. And of all genres, they got a taste of hip hop, and it was pretty damn good in my opinion. It reminded me quite a bit like something from Pop, a Miami or a Playboy Mansion.

But yeah, the idea of bringing Ryan Tedder and others on board, the whole Apple fiasco, and now the 30th Anniversary Tour for the Joshua Tree (which still seems odd for them and how U2 originally was with that sort of thing), makes them still seem like they are pandering hard for the radio and for the older fans who love them for their so called "golden years" of Joshua Tree and its subsequent tour.

It's not the worst case scenario, far from it really, but it does seem like we'll never really see them go out and release whatever they feel like expetrimenting with. Who knows really what those sessions from Fez really ended up being? Or, how the first half of SOI would sound without Epworth and Tedder?

I still think they can do it one day, it's easier for me to wait on them because I listen to so much more music than U2 now. But I feel like the longer they go without that record I know they can do, the less of a chance of it ever happening again.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on April 15, 2017, 12:17:48 AM
Exile,

I've read your posts on here for years and pretty much almost always agree with what you write and have been a fan of the band since 1980, so I remember when they were a secret shared only with other die-hard followers.

This is the first post of yours that feels off base to me...  U2 has such a long history of collaboration with other artists that it's hard to think of this one with Kendrick Lamar as pandering.

I remember when it felt like a victory for the band when they or Bono appeared on other artists' albums (Clannad, Robbie Robertson, T-Bone Burnett).  The list of collaborations with other artists is too long to type out, but now that they are on the verge of being elders of rock, aren't they paying forward the same types of nods that Dylan and B.B. King and Sinatra gave them when they were younger?

At what point did their history of collaborations turn into pandering?  It seems like something they enjoy doing, though I'd agree that some leave much to be desired.





 
 
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Ultrafly on April 15, 2017, 04:12:56 AM
There was a time when U2 set the agenda. Now they are chasing it - and missing.

There was a time when they had their heroes of the past working with them. Now they are working for incompatible talents.

I don't know KL. But this sounds like someone tried to force an unused U2 track into something else. It simply isn't very good.

U2 need to stop chasing relevance. They are old, they are never going to reinvent the world again, they've had a staggeringly successful career (with two 'Indian Summers' in 1991, 2000 when their then contemporaries fell away). Every band goes through peaks/troughs, and U2 have had their commercial drubbings (1996-98, 2009-now) : no band gets to be relevant and top the charts and set the agenda forever in a state of permanent glory.

They need to stop trying to be on trend. Just be the best U2 you can be. Don't dilute yourself with other elements. The chemistry is perfect as it is. Grow older with dignity, not chasing younger musical supermodels. Don't end up the Jack Nicholson of rock, still pretending a 60 year old bloke can be the lead in an action movie. That's not what U2 are anymore.

Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Edges Cat on April 15, 2017, 05:32:17 AM
Lamar asked U2 to collab with him. He asked them.

The Chainsmokers sampled one sentence from a phone conversation with Bono.

So U2's supposed to say no to Lamar and anyone else wanting to work with them for fear @U2 forum members will accuse them of pandering for relevance? The only pandering being done around here is at the panda exhibit at the zoo. Were you on the bandwagon with the other critics during Rattle & Hum accusing the band of pandering to BB King and Bob Dylan chasing relevance?
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Ultrafly on April 15, 2017, 06:11:56 AM
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Lamar asked U2 to collab with him. He asked them.

The Chainsmokers sampled one sentence from a phone conversation with Bono.

So U2's supposed to say no to Lamar and anyone else wanting to work with them for fear @U2 forum members will accuse them of pandering for relevance? The only pandering being done around here is at the panda exhibit at the zoo. Were you on the bandwagon with the other critics during Rattle & Hum accusing the band of pandering to BB King and Bob Dylan chasing relevance?

There's a whole other conversation about R+H, but in those records, BB + BD + JCash don't overpower the songs, but work well with them. This one feels like someones been forced at gunpoint to drop a U2 song into something else.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Belisama on April 15, 2017, 09:34:48 AM
A reminder to all,  discussing and debating U2 issues here is perfectly acceptable and highly encouraged, as long as it is done in a manner that is respectful.   U2 and the word "relevant"  is a topic that stirs passion in the hearts and minds of most fans.  Just don't let that passion cloud your judgement and be reflected in your posts.   Carry on.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on April 15, 2017, 12:07:40 PM
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Exile,

I've read your posts on here for years and pretty much almost always agree with what you write and have been a fan of the band since 1980, so I remember when they were a secret shared only with other die-hard followers.

This is the first post of yours that feels off base to me...  U2 has such a long history of collaboration with other artists that it's hard to think of this one with Kendrick Lamar as pandering.

I remember when it felt like a victory for the band when they or Bono appeared on other artists' albums (Clannad, Robbie Robertson, T-Bone Burnett).  The list of collaborations with other artists is too long to type out, but now that they are on the verge of being elders of rock, aren't they paying forward the same types of nods that Dylan and B.B. King and Sinatra gave them when they were younger?

At what point did their history of collaborations turn into pandering?  It seems like something they enjoy doing, though I'd agree that some leave much to be desired.


Well I suppose one way to look at it is that U2, as the elder statesmen of music, are throwing KL a bone by agreeing to appear on his album and thereby help his career. But the cynic in me sees it differently.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on April 15, 2017, 12:12:37 PM
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Exile,

I've read your posts on here for years and pretty much almost always agree with what you write and have been a fan of the band since 1980, so I remember when they were a secret shared only with other die-hard followers.

This is the first post of yours that feels off base to me...  U2 has such a long history of collaboration with other artists that it's hard to think of this one with Kendrick Lamar as pandering.

I remember when it felt like a victory for the band when they or Bono appeared on other artists' albums (Clannad, Robbie Robertson, T-Bone Burnett).  The list of collaborations with other artists is too long to type out, but now that they are on the verge of being elders of rock, aren't they paying forward the same types of nods that Dylan and B.B. King and Sinatra gave them when they were younger?

At what point did their history of collaborations turn into pandering?  It seems like something they enjoy doing, though I'd agree that some leave much to be desired.


Well I suppose one way to look at it is that U2, as the elder statesmen of music, are throwing KL a bone by agreeing to appear on his album and thereby help his career. But the cynic in me sees it differently.

i get your cynicism and like you i was surprised by the end result. i assumed it would be like the Wyclef Single or Whats Going On? i mark this as a win. especially considering its <as of now> just a deep cut and not the lead single etc.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: dwaltman on April 16, 2017, 07:00:24 AM
The original post seems to believe the motivation for being on DAMN was to reach a youthful audience. Truth is we know nothing about how it came about or the motivation in doing so.

I'm pretty tired of all the "U2 should do this or that" discussions.  I should do a lot of things too...but I don't. They are what they are, take it or leave it.


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Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on April 16, 2017, 10:23:02 AM
Cynicism is understood, as I would also love a revisit of the experimental side of U2 a la Passengers and Million Dollar Hotel, but artists mix it up with other artists and U2 has a long history of doing just that. 

Taking into consideration their history, is it only pandering because they are in the later years of their career?  Were all the older artists U2 worked with pandering by appearing with U2?  Just seems like there's a natural symbiosis in the art and music worlds that benefits everyone involved.

And hypothetically, what if the Lamar track had been presented as new Passengers material?   

Some artists Bono, Edge, Adam, Larry and/or U2 have collaborated with (partial list):

Frank Sinatra, Alicia Keys, Gavin Friday, Clannad, Tina Turner, Keith Richards & Ron Wood, The Corrs, Jay-Z & Rhianna, Jools Holland, Sinead O'Connor, Wyclef Jean, Zucchero Fornaciari, Michael Hutchence, Herbert Gronemeyer, Tony Bennett, Quincy Jones, Roy Orbison, Johnny Cash, Andrea Bocelli, Mick Jagger, B.B. King, Bob Dylan, Luciano Pavarotti, Lykke Li, T-Bone Burnett, Green Day, Daniel Lanois, The Call, Ecco Homo, Neville Brothers, Carl Perkins, Marianne Faithfull, Lone Justice, Dave Stewart, Mocean Worker, Tom Jones, Johnny Hallyday, Robbie Robertson, Jah Wobble, Nancy Sinatra, Common Ground, Brian Eno, Holi, Howie B., The Million Dollar Hotel Band...
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on April 16, 2017, 11:10:35 AM
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I'm pretty tired of all the "U2 should do this or that" discussions.  I should do a lot of things too...but I don't. They are what they are, take it or leave it.

So we should all just sit back and, in a Zen-like state, just accept whatever happens without resisting, offering differing opinions, or wrestling through U2's decisions together?

Nah, sounds way too boring. The "U2 should do this or that" discussions are one of the reasons forums like this exist. I don't want to see this place domesticated or made too safe. I like being challenged.
Title: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: aviastar on April 16, 2017, 11:13:23 AM
I don't see the huge deal...yeah, it plays a little like trying too hard to be relevant, but at the end of the day they are a rock band.  It's not the worst thing in the world for them to try and stay current.  U2 has collaborated with lots of artists throughout the years....not sure why collaborating with current ones draw more scorn than artists 20 years ago...is it just an age thing?



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Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: aviastar on April 16, 2017, 11:35:11 AM
I just listened to the KL track....first, I don't really listen to any hip hop so I am not current in any trends in that genre.  Second, I had never heard of KL before the U2 collaboration...so it's a first time for me.  Third...I enjoy the U2 portion.  I think it's a decent and respectable collaboration.  I probably wouldn't go buy the album, but I think it reflects well on U2...and is far from cringe-worthy or pathetic.


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Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: WookieeWarrior10 on April 16, 2017, 12:01:27 PM
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I just listened to the KL track....first, I don't really listen to any hip hop so I am not current in any trends in that genre.  Second, I had never heard of KL before the U2 collaboration...so it's a first time for me.  Third...I enjoy the U2 portion.  I think it's a decent and respectable collaboration.  I probably wouldn't go buy the album, but I think it reflects well on U2...and is far from cringe-worthy or pathetic.


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Right. This collaboration was handled very well and didn't feel forced at all. Smooth transition to the band's outro with well-written lyrics from Bono (assuming Kendrick's final rap part was written by Bono, because it does seem very Bono-esque as others have stated).
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: an tha on April 16, 2017, 12:09:28 PM
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I'm pretty tired of all the "U2 should do this or that" discussions.  I should do a lot of things too...but I don't. They are what they are, take it or leave it.

So we should all just sit back and, in a Zen-like state, just accept whatever happens without resisting, offering differing opinions, or wrestling through U2's decisions together?

Nah, sounds way too boring. The "U2 should do this or that" discussions are one of the reasons forums like this exist. I don't want to see this place domesticated or made too safe. I like being challenged.

It always makes me smile how people chime in playing the 'sick of people being negative' or 'sick of these type of threads' card.....or worse the old 'u2 owe us nothing' card.

So what they effectively want then when doing so is a forum to just discuss what is actually happening (which most of the time is nothing) and of course everything must be 'positive' as well....

Well - I suppose people can have that if they want by just not contributing to threads they don't like the look of......i mean we have all seen the long and deep debate about contributing respectfully that has taken place here and how what we post affects others etc......but still people can crash into threads like this one and state they are 'sick and tired' of what others want to and are talking about.

I'd bet you my last pound that if i waded into an appreciation thread about elevation and said i was 'tired of people praising the song' or 'sick of people liking songs i don't' that i would be getting my collar felt in no time......respect reall does have to fly both ways.

All i have seen here is largely respectful and interesting sharing of views and respectful but differing views being put forward punctured by the odd jibe by those who hide behind a 'i am positive' mask dragging the tone down...

Forums are built on discussion and people exchanging views...on people having interesting conversations and the best ones most importantly with people doing so in a respectful, intelligent and engaging manner....

'I am sick of this u2 do what they do take it or leave it' or 'go find another band' or 'why hang here' etc are in my view equally as bad as the sort of stuff that has been raised at length about 'negativity' and how that 'negativity' affects others stops them wanting to contribute, makes them send feedback to forum admin saying the 'place is negative' etc.

Respect and posting in a manner thay encourages cordial discourse and acting in am agreeable manner even when you disagree - especially when you disagree works both ways and I feel people would do well to remember that!

I honestly feel those perceived as 'negative' seem to have really taken that ethos on and run with it and the board is better for it....i would suggest some who deem themselves 'positive' could learn a thing or two in that area....

The forum is a better one when people engage in discussion in a respectful and open manner regardless of agreeing.

I realise that some of u2's most passionate and dedicated fans are in this community including those who run it and i also realise that to some any 'criticism' of the band may be almost heresy!....Here is the thing though - forums have space for all kinds of views....if you want to start a thread called 'u2 are the best band ever and have never made a mistep ever' and engage in a long thread that agrees with that and discusses why - you can!....If you want to start a thread called 'What colour undies do you think Bono wears most?' - you can (if you really must)....if you want a thread that praises Yahweh - you can and so on and so on.......By the same token people have exactly the same freedom to post 'I wish u2 would' 'i think u2 are' 'u2 could do better' etc threads.

All add to the rich tapestry and all have the choice to get involved or swerve - the way it should be.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: dwaltman on April 16, 2017, 12:32:22 PM
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I'm pretty tired of all the "U2 should do this or that" discussions.  I should do a lot of things too...but I don't. They are what they are, take it or leave it.

So we should all just sit back and, in a Zen-like state, just accept whatever happens without resisting, offering differing opinions, or wrestling through U2's decisions together?

Nah, sounds way too boring. The "U2 should do this or that" discussions are one of the reasons forums like this exist. I don't want to see this place domesticated or made too safe. I like being challenged.

It always makes me smile how people chime in playing the 'sick of people being negative' or 'sick of these type of threads' card.....or worse the old 'u2 owe us nothing' card.

So what they effectively want then when doing so is a forum to just discuss what is actually happening (which most of the time is nothing) and of course everything must be 'positive' as well....

Well - I suppose people can have that if they want by just not contributing to threads they don't like the look of......i mean we have all seen the long and deep debate about contributing respectfully that has taken place here and how what we post affects others etc......but still people can crash into threads like this one and state they are 'sick and tired' of what others want to and are talking about.

I'd bet you my last pound that if i waded into an appreciation thread about elevation and said i was 'tired of people praising the song' or 'sick of people liking songs i don't' that i would be getting my collar felt in no time......respect reall does have to fly both ways.

All i have seen here is largely respectful and interesting sharing of views and respectful but differing views being put forward punctured by the odd jibe by those who hide behind a 'i am positive' mask dragging the tone down...

Forums are built on discussion and people exchanging views...on people having interesting conversations and the best ones most importantly with people doing so in a respectful, intelligent and engaging manner....

'I am sick of this u2 do what they do take it or leave it' or 'go find another band' or 'why hang here' etc are in my view equally as bad as the sort of stuff that has been raised at length about 'negativity' and how that 'negativity' affects others stops them wanting to contribute, makes them send feedback to forum admin saying the 'place is negative' etc.

Respect and posting in a manner thay encourages cordial discourse and acting in am agreeable manner even when you disagree - especially when you disagree works both ways and I feel people would do well to remember that!

I honestly feel those perceived as 'negative' seem to have really taken that ethos on and run with it and the board is better for it....i would suggest some who deem themselves 'positive' could learn a thing or two in that area....

The forum is a better one when people engage in discussion in a respectful and open manner regardless of agreeing.

I realise that some of u2's most passionate and dedicated fans are in this community including those who run it and i also realise that to some any 'criticism' of the band may be almost heresy!....Here is the thing though - forums have space for all kinds of views....if you want to start a thread called 'u2 are the best band ever and have never made a mistep ever' and engage in a long thread that agrees with that and discusses why - you can!....If you want to start a thread called 'What colour undies do you think Bono wears most?' - you can (if you really must)....if you want a thread that praises Yahweh - you can and so on and so on.......By the same token people have exactly the same freedom to post 'I wish u2 would' 'i think u2 are' 'u2 could do better' etc threads.

All add to the rich tapestry and all have the choice to get involved or swerve - the way it should be.

I guess it's the word "should." I would enjoy a return to the  the aggression of War. I would love to hear an experimental path a la Zooropa/Pop. I would love to hear an album going off the jazzy chill vibe of xxx. But for me to say they SHOULD  do this or that....who am I to say. It's just been talked to death.


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Title: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: aviastar on April 16, 2017, 01:35:03 PM
Hey Exile...I understand your feelings on the TJT tour....kind of a legacy act thing to do.  Can you expand on the collaboration issue?  Just by nature of time, U2's longevity in the music industry, and their age, almost any collaboration they do is going to be with a group that is younger then them...is it that they should stick with their cohort, or just not do collaborations at all?


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Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on April 16, 2017, 03:21:17 PM
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Hey Exile...I understand your feelings on the TJT tour....kind of a legacy act thing to do.  Can you expand on the collaboration issue?  Just by nature of time, U2's longevity in the music industry, and their age, almost any collaboration they do is going to be with a group that is younger then them...is it that they should stick with their cohort, or just not do collaborations at all?

It has nothing to do with age, and everything to do with the (seeming) motivations behind it. Now I enjoy a bit of hip hop and rap, but it's rare, so I don't really know where KL stands in the broader spectrum of that genre. If he is seen as an artistic and cutting-edge MC, then I have more respect for a U2 collab than I would if he is the hip hop equivalent of, say, Selena Gomez.

Likewise, if a U2 collab involves U2 being U2 in that song, I have less of a problem with it than if U2 is trying to be something they're not (whether it's Bono trying to be a rapper or U2 making bubblegum EDM stuff).

But my broader complaint has nothing to do with KL. It's more about U2 allowing commercial factors to drive their art. And I can't imagine any thinking U2 fan insisting that U2 hasn't been doing just this for a good while now.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Midnight is Where the Day Begins on April 16, 2017, 03:40:04 PM
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Hey Exile...I understand your feelings on the TJT tour....kind of a legacy act thing to do.  Can you expand on the collaboration issue?  Just by nature of time, U2's longevity in the music industry, and their age, almost any collaboration they do is going to be with a group that is younger then them...is it that they should stick with their cohort, or just not do collaborations at all?

It has nothing to do with age, and everything to do with the (seeming) motivations behind it. Now I enjoy a bit of hip hop and rap, but it's rare, so I don't really know where KL stands in the broader spectrum of that genre. If he is seen as an artistic and cutting-edge MC, then I have more respect for a U2 collab than I would if he is the hip hop equivalent of, say, Selena Gomez.

Likewise, if a U2 collab involves U2 being U2 in that song, I have less of a problem with it than if U2 is trying to be something they're not (whether it's Bono trying to be a rapper or U2 making bubblegum EDM stuff).

But my broader complaint has nothing to do with KL. It's more about U2 allowing commercial factors to drive their art. And I can't imagine any thinking U2 fan insisting that U2 hasn't been doing just this for a good while now.

To be fair, I'm curious how much commercial factors had to do with their decision to work on a song with Kendrick Lamar. There was no huge publicity made about it, and nobody even knew U2 was involved until Lamar himself released the track listing for the album that featured U2s name on a song. Seems like to me that if they really wanted to make it a big deal commercially, you would have had interviews or at least something out of the U2 camp, and we haven't heard much of anything.

Also, to answer your question about Kendrick Lamar's standing in the genre of hip-hop, he's probably one of if not the most critically acclaimed artists in the genre active today, and he's a fantastic lyricist, storyteller, and producer.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on April 16, 2017, 03:49:40 PM
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To be fair, I'm curious how much commercial factors had to do with their decision to work on a song with Kendrick Lamar. There was no huge publicity made about it, and nobody even knew U2 was involved until Lamar himself released the track listing for the album that featured U2s name on a song. Seems like to me that if they really wanted to make it a big deal commercially, you would have had interviews or at least something out of the U2 camp, and we haven't heard much of anything.

Right, which is why I said that my broader complaint had nothing to do with Kendrick Lamar. XXX could not exist and my concern would still be valid.

And glad to hear that KL has the cred you say he does. That makes the collab more stomach-able (at least for me).
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: dwaltman on April 16, 2017, 04:27:37 PM
Save for a couple feeble tracks, I didn't think NLOTH or SOI had commercialism written all over them.


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Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: DGordon1 on April 16, 2017, 04:30:43 PM
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Hey Exile...I understand your feelings on the TJT tour....kind of a legacy act thing to do.  Can you expand on the collaboration issue?  Just by nature of time, U2's longevity in the music industry, and their age, almost any collaboration they do is going to be with a group that is younger then them...is it that they should stick with their cohort, or just not do collaborations at all?

It has nothing to do with age, and everything to do with the (seeming) motivations behind it. Now I enjoy a bit of hip hop and rap, but it's rare, so I don't really know where KL stands in the broader spectrum of that genre. If he is seen as an artistic and cutting-edge MC, then I have more respect for a U2 collab than I would if he is the hip hop equivalent of, say, Selena Gomez.

Likewise, if a U2 collab involves U2 being U2 in that song, I have less of a problem with it than if U2 is trying to be something they're not (whether it's Bono trying to be a rapper or U2 making bubblegum EDM stuff).

But my broader complaint has nothing to do with KL. It's more about U2 allowing commercial factors to drive their art. And I can't imagine any thinking U2 fan insisting that U2 hasn't been doing just this for a good while now.

They've been doing that since day dot though Exile. How could you see the transformation from R&H to AB as having no commercial motive? As long as the end product is worthwhile, surely that's the only thing that even matters.

There's a small few artists out there for whom commercial interests don't factor into their artistic choices but they're extremely rare. And U2 have never been this at any time in their existence (I mean you don't become, and stay, the biggest band in the world for so long with this mentality).

Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Spaderholic on April 16, 2017, 04:36:21 PM
Finally listened to the XXX song. I'm not a fan of rap at all (apart from the odd song here and there, mostly from the 80's or 90's) but this track isn't bad. Kendrick's voice is different to the usual whiney drawl of so many rappers, who have a sort of lazy way of rapping that usually irritates the hell out of me (rapping about the cliched stuff like flash cars, bling, pimps and ho's, like Snoop Dogg, etc, urgh I hate that stuff!) Kendrick sounds more like an old school rapper from the 80's and this track certainly has a serious subject matter, lyrics with a conscience. Bono is barely on the track but his bit of singing sounds good. This isn't something I could listen to repeatedly but it's not as bad as I'd feared!
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on April 16, 2017, 04:49:57 PM
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Hey Exile...I understand your feelings on the TJT tour....kind of a legacy act thing to do.  Can you expand on the collaboration issue?  Just by nature of time, U2's longevity in the music industry, and their age, almost any collaboration they do is going to be with a group that is younger then them...is it that they should stick with their cohort, or just not do collaborations at all?

It has nothing to do with age, and everything to do with the (seeming) motivations behind it. Now I enjoy a bit of hip hop and rap, but it's rare, so I don't really know where KL stands in the broader spectrum of that genre. If he is seen as an artistic and cutting-edge MC, then I have more respect for a U2 collab than I would if he is the hip hop equivalent of, say, Selena Gomez.

Likewise, if a U2 collab involves U2 being U2 in that song, I have less of a problem with it than if U2 is trying to be something they're not (whether it's Bono trying to be a rapper or U2 making bubblegum EDM stuff).

But my broader complaint has nothing to do with KL. It's more about U2 allowing commercial factors to drive their art. And I can't imagine any thinking U2 fan insisting that U2 hasn't been doing just this for a good while now.

They've been doing that since day dot though Exile. How could you see the transformation from R&H to AB as having no commercial motive? As long as the end product is worthwhile, surely that's the only thing that even matters.

There's a small few artists out there for whom commercial interests don't factor into their artistic choices but they're extremely rare. And U2 have never been this at any time in their existence (I mean you don't become, and stay, the biggest band in the world for so long with this mentality).

Doing what? Allowing commercial concerns to drive their art? I disagree. You brought up AB as your example. While the band surely welcomed the commercial success of that album, it was born in a crucible of fractured relationships and fragile loyalties, and as such it comes off as completely authentic.

Whereas Bono insisting that if he doesn't go crazy tonight he will go crazy, well, just doesn't.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Kmama07 on April 16, 2017, 07:16:30 PM
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... it sounds like Exile is elitist enough for the band and most of their fans too. I completely get that being a lifelong hardcore fan of U2 is a precious thing but it doesn't do anyone any good to be so possessive about it.

Let's not devolve into personal insults.

But yeah, I am an elitist of sorts. I think U2 is better than Coldplay, better than Katy Perry, and better than Fetty Wap. I think they are tarnishing their legacy by desperately pining to be popular. It's like they have PLEASE LIKE US painted across their chests, and it's kinda unseemly.

Like many of us, I have invested the majority of my life (not to mention plenty of money) into my U2 fandom. While I wouldn't say they owe me anything, I can still mourn when I see them collaborate with Wyclef Jean or Missy Elliot.

To anyone outside this forum I am a fierce U2 defender. But this should be a safe place to rant every now and then.
Agreed. AND thanks for the laugh with the Amstel Lite remark!
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: lucas.homem on April 16, 2017, 09:55:29 PM
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Hey Exile...I understand your feelings on the TJT tour....kind of a legacy act thing to do.  Can you expand on the collaboration issue?  Just by nature of time, U2's longevity in the music industry, and their age, almost any collaboration they do is going to be with a group that is younger then them...is it that they should stick with their cohort, or just not do collaborations at all?

It has nothing to do with age, and everything to do with the (seeming) motivations behind it. Now I enjoy a bit of hip hop and rap, but it's rare, so I don't really know where KL stands in the broader spectrum of that genre. If he is seen as an artistic and cutting-edge MC, then I have more respect for a U2 collab than I would if he is the hip hop equivalent of, say, Selena Gomez.

Likewise, if a U2 collab involves U2 being U2 in that song, I have less of a problem with it than if U2 is trying to be something they're not (whether it's Bono trying to be a rapper or U2 making bubblegum EDM stuff).

But my broader complaint has nothing to do with KL. It's more about U2 allowing commercial factors to drive their art. And I can't imagine any thinking U2 fan insisting that U2 hasn't been doing just this for a good while now.

They've been doing that since day dot though Exile. How could you see the transformation from R&H to AB as having no commercial motive? As long as the end product is worthwhile, surely that's the only thing that even matters.

There's a small few artists out there for whom commercial interests don't factor into their artistic choices but they're extremely rare. And U2 have never been this at any time in their existence (I mean you don't become, and stay, the biggest band in the world for so long with this mentality).

Doing what? Allowing commercial concerns to drive their art? I disagree. You brought up AB as your example. While the band surely welcomed the commercial success of that album, it was born in a crucible of fractured relationships and fragile loyalties, and as such it comes off as completely authentic.

Whereas Bono insisting that if he doesn't go crazy tonight he will go crazy, well, just doesn't.

There's an early interview of Bono speaking about how he perceives U2 as a business too. The question is: what exactly does that mean?

For me, most of their best decisions were made trying to reach more relevance (the thing we want them to avoid now). So, as documented in "U2 by U2", the band searching for Eno after War was because the knew they'd be pigeonholed (and then fade away) if they made another album in the same vein. After that, one could argue that The Joshua Tree was the result of U2 trying to touch a broader audience with their homage to more traditional music (even if Bono was really inspired by that). And Achtung Baby is clearly a consequence of R&H, getting hippier and more european after the "cowboy" fiasco.

The differences between now and the golden days are three, in my opinion: (1) dedication, (2) inspiration and (3) what they perceive as being relevant at the moment. Back in the day, calling Eno to make an experimental album (TUF) sounded like a great idea to bring them critical acclaim and more recognition to their brand (like a better and more complete curriculum). A smart move. Nowadays, for some reason, maybe because they were so gigantic before (something that throws a big shadow), or because they got scared after POP and NLOTH, U2 don't think anymore that they have the opportunity to rink being experimental in order to get relevant and successful. So going safe is the only route that they can see... (although I think they don't understand contemporary music and trends, and that's why they fail so hard [unless Kendrick Lamar is in the command]).

Also, there's a fourth reason too, me thinks. As we all know, U2 is a live band, so they crave for an enthusiastic response from the crowd in a show. Because of that, they release music that they imagine the whole crowd will be singing along to. They are terrifyed of a quiet crowd. Then, between Cedars of Lebanon and Get On Your Boots, which one is answer? Yes, the latter.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on April 16, 2017, 10:32:45 PM
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I don't see the huge deal...yeah, it plays a little like trying too hard to be relevant, but at the end of the day they are a rock band.  It's not the worst thing in the world for them to try and stay current.  U2 has collaborated with lots of artists throughout the years....not sure why collaborating with current ones draw more scorn than artists 20 years ago...is it just an age thing?



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see, the people they were collaborating with were U2's peers, BB King, Keith Richards, Willie Nelson, not to mention Johnny Cash. The post-Pop era has been them reaching out to the new, cool kids. It should be the other way around.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: lucas.homem on April 16, 2017, 10:46:47 PM
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I don't see the huge deal...yeah, it plays a little like trying too hard to be relevant, but at the end of the day they are a rock band.  It's not the worst thing in the world for them to try and stay current.  U2 has collaborated with lots of artists throughout the years....not sure why collaborating with current ones draw more scorn than artists 20 years ago...is it just an age thing?



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see, the people they were collaborating with were U2's peers, BB King, Keith Richards, Willie Nelson, not to mention Johnny Cash. The post-Pop era has been them reaching out to the new, cool kids. It should be the other way around.

Those guys are U2's peers? Now that they all are all in the classic territory, I guess everybody is peers... but I wonder what BB King's conservative fans thought of him fooling around with the new "band of the moment" in 1988 (the King of the Blues with a post-punk band).

Now U2 is the old act meeting the new generation. We can just hope that they will reach the right ones.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on April 16, 2017, 10:50:41 PM
well maybe im using the wrong word. they were the "classic artists" when U2 was just hitting the mainstream in a big way.

oops sorry

Peers: a person of the same age, status, or ability as another specified person.

yes thats the opposite of what i meant.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on April 16, 2017, 10:56:09 PM
and about BB King, i know <maybe Siskel and Ebert> said it was insulting they tried to write a song for BB. But in actuality BB went to them to work on a song with them. I can see the hardcore BBheads of 1988 thinking he was selling out, when we just saw it as a great song that i STILL hear on the radio.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: lucas.homem on April 16, 2017, 11:06:26 PM
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and about BB King, i know <maybe Siskel and Ebert> said it was insulting they tried to write a song for BB. But in actuality BB went to them to work on a song with them. I can see the hardcore BBheads of 1988 thinking he was selling out, when we just saw it as a great song that i STILL hear on the radio.

Yes, just like U2 with Kendrick Lamar or even with the other kids that people don't like around here. We don't know who are the people that the band likes.
Title: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: aviastar on April 16, 2017, 11:09:31 PM
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I don't see the huge deal...yeah, it plays a little like trying too hard to be relevant, but at the end of the day they are a rock band.  It's not the worst thing in the world for them to try and stay current.  U2 has collaborated with lots of artists throughout the years....not sure why collaborating with current ones draw more scorn than artists 20 years ago...is it just an age thing?



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see, the people they were collaborating with were U2's peers, BB King, Keith Richards, Willie Nelson, not to mention Johnny Cash. The post-Pop era has been them reaching out to the new, cool kids. It should be the other way around.

A lot of U2's peers have retreated into legacy/heritage acts that don't do a whole lot of new stuff...if they are doing anything at all...U2 has outlasted nearly all of its peer group (see:R.E.M.).  I suppose they could do something with Radiohead or something, but is that really even worth it?  I would love to see something with David Byrne, but it would be super niche, no mass market appeal.  And U2 is a business with investors.

I think just by nature of the numbers, if U2 wants to collaborate and keep it fresh it is going to just trend towards younger artists who are the next new thing.  When the band was in its early years, there were still a lot of blues and folk and old school rock guys kickin' around that they could go and hang with.  Those guys aren't really around anymore, and they generally don't have the long career arcs that they used to in our short attention span society.


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Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Blueyedboy on April 17, 2017, 01:45:01 AM
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I'm pretty tired of all the "U2 should do this or that" discussions.  I should do a lot of things too...but I don't. They are what they are, take it or leave it.

So we should all just sit back and, in a Zen-like state, just accept whatever happens without resisting, offering differing opinions, or wrestling through U2's decisions together?

Nah, sounds way too boring. The "U2 should do this or that" discussions are one of the reasons forums like this exist. I don't want to see this place domesticated or made too safe. I like being challenged.

It always makes me smile how people chime in playing the 'sick of people being negative' or 'sick of these type of threads' card.....or worse the old 'u2 owe us nothing' card.

So what they effectively want then when doing so is a forum to just discuss what is actually happening (which most of the time is nothing) and of course everything must be 'positive' as well....

Well - I suppose people can have that if they want by just not contributing to threads they don't like the look of......i mean we have all seen the long and deep debate about contributing respectfully that has taken place here and how what we post affects others etc......but still people can crash into threads like this one and state they are 'sick and tired' of what others want to and are talking about.

I'd bet you my last pound that if i waded into an appreciation thread about elevation and said i was 'tired of people praising the song' or 'sick of people liking songs i don't' that i would be getting my collar felt in no time......respect reall does have to fly both ways.

All i have seen here is largely respectful and interesting sharing of views and respectful but differing views being put forward punctured by the odd jibe by those who hide behind a 'i am positive' mask dragging the tone down...

Forums are built on discussion and people exchanging views...on people having interesting conversations and the best ones most importantly with people doing so in a respectful, intelligent and engaging manner....

'I am sick of this u2 do what they do take it or leave it' or 'go find another band' or 'why hang here' etc are in my view equally as bad as the sort of stuff that has been raised at length about 'negativity' and how that 'negativity' affects others stops them wanting to contribute, makes them send feedback to forum admin saying the 'place is negative' etc.

Respect and posting in a manner thay encourages cordial discourse and acting in am agreeable manner even when you disagree - especially when you disagree works both ways and I feel people would do well to remember that!

I honestly feel those perceived as 'negative' seem to have really taken that ethos on and run with it and the board is better for it....i would suggest some who deem themselves 'positive' could learn a thing or two in that area....

The forum is a better one when people engage in discussion in a respectful and open manner regardless of agreeing.

I realise that some of u2's most passionate and dedicated fans are in this community including those who run it and i also realise that to some any 'criticism' of the band may be almost heresy!....Here is the thing though - forums have space for all kinds of views....if you want to start a thread called 'u2 are the best band ever and have never made a mistep ever' and engage in a long thread that agrees with that and discusses why - you can!....If you want to start a thread called 'What colour undies do you think Bono wears most?' - you can (if you really must)....if you want a thread that praises Yahweh - you can and so on and so on.......By the same token people have exactly the same freedom to post 'I wish u2 would' 'i think u2 are' 'u2 could do better' etc threads.

All add to the rich tapestry and all have the choice to get involved or swerve - the way it should be.

But negativity does exist and forum members are entitled to question it or be perlexed by it.
My own posts are mostly on the negative side, sometimes to be mischievous, sometimes because I am being a pessimist b****** or simply living in the past. If people want to call me negative, then fine, I get to offer my point of view to further the discussion.
Conversely, if I don't get why some posters are hating on something, such as an unreleased song or album, then I will call out their negativity. A conversation may ensue and the forum gets more insight into the issues being discussed.
I also get to highlight the positivity of posts too, something else that I do to push the conversation along.
I think we've got to let the forum rules and moderators dictate what is acceptable on here without trying to add our own pet hates to them.

Peace out.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: an tha on April 17, 2017, 03:36:52 AM
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I'm pretty tired of all the "U2 should do this or that" discussions.  I should do a lot of things too...but I don't. They are what they are, take it or leave it.

So we should all just sit back and, in a Zen-like state, just accept whatever happens without resisting, offering differing opinions, or wrestling through U2's decisions together?

Nah, sounds way too boring. The "U2 should do this or that" discussions are one of the reasons forums like this exist. I don't want to see this place domesticated or made too safe. I like being challenged.

It always makes me smile how people chime in playing the 'sick of people being negative' or 'sick of these type of threads' card.....or worse the old 'u2 owe us nothing' card.

So what they effectively want then when doing so is a forum to just discuss what is actually happening (which most of the time is nothing) and of course everything must be 'positive' as well....

Well - I suppose people can have that if they want by just not contributing to threads they don't like the look of......i mean we have all seen the long and deep debate about contributing respectfully that has taken place here and how what we post affects others etc......but still people can crash into threads like this one and state they are 'sick and tired' of what others want to and are talking about.

I'd bet you my last pound that if i waded into an appreciation thread about elevation and said i was 'tired of people praising the song' or 'sick of people liking songs i don't' that i would be getting my collar felt in no time......respect reall does have to fly both ways.

All i have seen here is largely respectful and interesting sharing of views and respectful but differing views being put forward punctured by the odd jibe by those who hide behind a 'i am positive' mask dragging the tone down...

Forums are built on discussion and people exchanging views...on people having interesting conversations and the best ones most importantly with people doing so in a respectful, intelligent and engaging manner....

'I am sick of this u2 do what they do take it or leave it' or 'go find another band' or 'why hang here' etc are in my view equally as bad as the sort of stuff that has been raised at length about 'negativity' and how that 'negativity' affects others stops them wanting to contribute, makes them send feedback to forum admin saying the 'place is negative' etc.

Respect and posting in a manner thay encourages cordial discourse and acting in am agreeable manner even when you disagree - especially when you disagree works both ways and I feel people would do well to remember that!

I honestly feel those perceived as 'negative' seem to have really taken that ethos on and run with it and the board is better for it....i would suggest some who deem themselves 'positive' could learn a thing or two in that area....

The forum is a better one when people engage in discussion in a respectful and open manner regardless of agreeing.

I realise that some of u2's most passionate and dedicated fans are in this community including those who run it and i also realise that to some any 'criticism' of the band may be almost heresy!....Here is the thing though - forums have space for all kinds of views....if you want to start a thread called 'u2 are the best band ever and have never made a mistep ever' and engage in a long thread that agrees with that and discusses why - you can!....If you want to start a thread called 'What colour undies do you think Bono wears most?' - you can (if you really must)....if you want a thread that praises Yahweh - you can and so on and so on.......By the same token people have exactly the same freedom to post 'I wish u2 would' 'i think u2 are' 'u2 could do better' etc threads.

All add to the rich tapestry and all have the choice to get involved or swerve - the way it should be.

But negativity does exist and forum members are entitled to question it or be perlexed by it.
My own posts are mostly on the negative side, sometimes to be mischievous, sometimes because I am being a pessimist b****** or simply living in the past. If people want to call me negative, then fine, I get to offer my point of view to further the discussion.
Conversely, if I don't get why some posters are hating on something, such as an unreleased song or album, then I will call out their negativity. A conversation may ensue and the forum gets more insight into the issues being discussed.
I also get to highlight the positivity of posts too, something else that I do to push the conversation along.
I think we've got to let the forum rules and moderators dictate what is acceptable on here without trying to add our own pet hates to them.

Peace out.

You seem to have missed the point.....the point was about the poster feeling the need to state he/she was sick and tired of the kind of thread exile had started....which is an exact example of trying to add our own pet hates to what is posted here rather than as you say letting the mods decide what is acceptable/actually adding something that improves/advances the conversation as you say. Exile was clearly narked by the post as well.

As I said and as you said people should be able to post freely (as long as they are doing so respectfully) without others trying that kind of censorship.....I can just imagine what would happen if i for example waded into the band section and stated i was sick and tired of threads about how 'bono rocks peoples world'.....I don't do it because it is 'dickish' and against the rules/spirit of the rules.....

Hope that makes sense.

It's all cool!
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: jick on April 17, 2017, 04:41:10 AM
Rather than have so much negativity in this forum, why can't we just celebrate whatever new output U2 has made.

At this stage in their careers, they don't owe the fans new music.  They can bask in retirement and let their money in the bank grow interest.

If U2 choose to relive an era that many missed because they were not born yet in 1987, then I wish U2 well.

If U2 choose to take risks by collaborating with different genre artists whose target market is a different generation, then who are we to be negative and complain?

Let's be positive and always remember that U2 owe us absolutely nothing anymore. And whatever path they choose to take is at their own terms, and is better than retirement.

In reality, U2 are up off their knees and not munching chips in their couches while watching sports channels.

Cheers,

J
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: DGordon1 on April 17, 2017, 05:18:35 AM
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Hey Exile...I understand your feelings on the TJT tour....kind of a legacy act thing to do.  Can you expand on the collaboration issue?  Just by nature of time, U2's longevity in the music industry, and their age, almost any collaboration they do is going to be with a group that is younger then them...is it that they should stick with their cohort, or just not do collaborations at all?

It has nothing to do with age, and everything to do with the (seeming) motivations behind it. Now I enjoy a bit of hip hop and rap, but it's rare, so I don't really know where KL stands in the broader spectrum of that genre. If he is seen as an artistic and cutting-edge MC, then I have more respect for a U2 collab than I would if he is the hip hop equivalent of, say, Selena Gomez.

Likewise, if a U2 collab involves U2 being U2 in that song, I have less of a problem with it than if U2 is trying to be something they're not (whether it's Bono trying to be a rapper or U2 making bubblegum EDM stuff).

But my broader complaint has nothing to do with KL. It's more about U2 allowing commercial factors to drive their art. And I can't imagine any thinking U2 fan insisting that U2 hasn't been doing just this for a good while now.

They've been doing that since day dot though Exile. How could you see the transformation from R&H to AB as having no commercial motive? As long as the end product is worthwhile, surely that's the only thing that even matters.

There's a small few artists out there for whom commercial interests don't factor into their artistic choices but they're extremely rare. And U2 have never been this at any time in their existence (I mean you don't become, and stay, the biggest band in the world for so long with this mentality).

Doing what? Allowing commercial concerns to drive their art? I disagree. You brought up AB as your example. While the band surely welcomed the commercial success of that album, it was born in a crucible of fractured relationships and fragile loyalties, and as such it comes off as completely authentic.

Whereas Bono insisting that if he doesn't go crazy tonight he will go crazy, well, just doesn't.

I'm not arguing against the artistic merits if that album (it's their best ever in my mind), nor am I bigging up Crazy Tonight.

But I do believe U2's main objectives have ALWAYS been to create music that's both highly lucrative and hugely popular and relevant. Sometimes they hit and sometimes they miss, but they're still driven by the same forces.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Ultrafly on April 17, 2017, 05:56:05 AM
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Rather than have so much negativity in this forum, why can't we just celebrate whatever new output U2 has made.

At this stage in their careers, they don't owe the fans new music.  They can bask in retirement and let their money in the bank grow interest.

If U2 choose to relive an era that many missed because they were not born yet in 1987, then I wish U2 well.

If U2 choose to take risks by collaborating with different genre artists whose target market is a different generation, then who are we to be negative and complain?

Let's be positive and always remember that U2 owe us absolutely nothing anymore. And whatever path they choose to take is at their own terms, and is better than retirement.

In reality, U2 are up off their knees and not munching chips in their couches while watching sports channels.

Cheers,

J

U2 set themselves a very high standard. We - as fans - hold them to that standard, and sometimes we perceive they are not achieving it.

Just because U2 are U2 doesn't give them a free pass to no longer meet the standards they have set themselves and we expect of them.

In business terms, there is often a "Critical Friend" who points out perhaps areas where things might not be perfect. Here we do so not out of being haters, but out of love. We want the band to be great, and occasionally they make decisions that baffle us, or decisions that fall short of their - and our - expectations. Occasionally they release boxsets that are horrendously overpriced for the content and we, as consumers, quite rightly have opinions on those. You can argue we can exercise our opinions by not buying them, but we won't not buy them. 

Previous examples include "Best Of's" in 1998,2002, and 2006 that looked - to the outsider - to be slightly desperate attempts to reset themselves as 'legends' after the well documented 1998 crisis of confidence and the 2001, 2004-5 periods of consolidation. If they'd said "We got £50m as long as we agreed to put out 3 Best Of's", nobody would've denied them the payday.

Of course I'm going to buy TJT#30 and see multiple shows on the tour, but that doesn't mean I think U2 are beyond criticism. U2 have slowly become more insular and retrospective over the years, and are in danger of becoming a touring museum, especially if they have only released one record in the past eight years.  By navelgazing over their own self-imposed desire for cultural relevance, they have overthought themselves into a corner. A good record shouldn't be delayed by not being politically 'of the time' : good music is timeless and exists outside of the socio-economic circumstances of the year of release. Art should be felt - not thought.

I'd love to celebrate their new output, but 16 songs in 8 years is a poor reward to celebrate.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on April 17, 2017, 10:17:37 AM
A good review of Lamar's headlining Coachella set last night, including this bit that reminded me of how the first ZOO TV show I saw made me feel:

"...a performance that saw an artist push at the boundaries of what a headline set can be. Part film, part experimental theatre and part hip-hop opera Ė it seemed to leave many wondering what they were witnessing."

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2017/apr/17/coachella-2017-kendrick-lamar-sunday-headliners-set-review (https://www.theguardian.com/music/2017/apr/17/coachella-2017-kendrick-lamar-sunday-headliners-set-review)

Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on April 17, 2017, 12:03:34 PM
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Rather than have so much negativity in this forum, why can't we just celebrate whatever new output U2 has made.

Again, this is a call for mindless approval of anything U2 does, regardless of whether we like it, simply because the alternative is that they retire and quit making music altogether.

Sorry, but I am not mindless and I don't "celebrate" every little thing U2 does, nor do I consider "negativity" a vice necessarily. The whole reason Bono says he likes being in a band rather than being a solo artist like Sting is that bands require a measure of democracy and fighting to get your point across, whereas a solo artist can just legislate and his hired help has to fall in line. The people in this forum who seek to squash constructive criticism and demand we celebrate every bit of output U2 gives us are acting like exactly the kinds of sycophants that Bono seeks to avoid.

PS - As with all artists, musicians, and athletes, there will come a point where we will WANT the band to retire. I'd rather they go out on a high note (like Seinfeld) than overstaying their welcome (like The X-Files).
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: GardenTart on April 17, 2017, 07:51:36 PM
I agree wholeheartedly with you Exile. As usual, you made some very valid points in an eloquent post.

Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on April 17, 2017, 08:30:45 PM
ok here's a hot opinion in regards to what exile said. i'm ready for them to retire. i've been ready since ATYCLB, and i very much loved that album on it's release, and i still love SOI. i just think they aren't interested in music anymore. if anything they should take a solid 10 years off or so. if they don't wanna see themselves turn into the Stones, then any day now guys....
Title: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: aviastar on April 18, 2017, 05:40:47 AM
Would it be so bad if they turned into the Stones? I think they still have gas in the tank.  We are still waiting on the SOE album, and they are still selling records and tickets to shows...
 
Not sure if they should hang it up just yet.

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Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: scott7 on April 18, 2017, 07:07:45 AM
This is a totally worthy debate and as Exile says this should be a safe place to have it. I for one am glad they're not acting their age and that they strive to connect with a mass audience still. That ambition, to impact as many folk as they can was partly why we all got into them at first wasn't it? Even just a little? I try to imagine myself in their position sometimes. It's tempting to think I'd be entirely artistically focused and unaffected by the desire to retain mass appeal but having tasted it for so long it must be hard to let go. I admire them for that. I also think they are hand on heart still aiming to be the biggest and the best. Keep the faith guys, they've got a few fights left in them yet and we will see and hear something great in this next phase I think.


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Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: dwaltman on April 19, 2017, 01:08:39 PM
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The original post seems to believe the motivation for being on DAMN was to reach a youthful audience. Truth is we know nothing about how it came about or the motivation in doing so.

I'm pretty tired of all the "U2 should do this or that" discussions.  I should do a lot of things too...but I don't. They are what they are, take it or leave it.


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Wow.  Can't believe this little comment led to a lengthy essay and it being called a "dickish" move.  I guess some posters are above reproach. The KL collaboration wasn't even out when the op was posted.  Most reactions I've seen to XXX have been positive.  There was a tone of condescension and that was what I was reacting to. 
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: lucas.homem on April 19, 2017, 04:27:11 PM
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The original post seems to believe the motivation for being on DAMN was to reach a youthful audience. Truth is we know nothing about how it came about or the motivation in doing so.

I'm pretty tired of all the "U2 should do this or that" discussions.  I should do a lot of things too...but I don't. They are what they are, take it or leave it.


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Wow.  Can't believe this little comment led to a lengthy essay and it being called a "dickish" move.  I guess some posters are above reproach. The KL collaboration wasn't even out when the op was posted.  Most reactions I've seen to XXX have been positive.  There was a tone of condescension and that was what I was reacting to.

Actually, the KL collaboration was out when the op was posted.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Blueyedboy on April 19, 2017, 04:47:35 PM
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The original post seems to believe the motivation for being on DAMN was to reach a youthful audience. Truth is we know nothing about how it came about or the motivation in doing so.

I'm pretty tired of all the "U2 should do this or that" discussions.  I should do a lot of things too...but I don't. They are what they are, take it or leave it.


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Wow.  Can't believe this little comment led to a lengthy essay and it being called a "dickish" move.  I guess some posters are above reproach. The KL collaboration wasn't even out when the op was posted.  Most reactions I've seen to XXX have been positive.  There was a tone of condescension and that was what I was reacting to.

Actually, the KL collaboration was out when the op was posted.

The output of the collaboration wasn't the focus of the OP when this thread was posted, more the thought process behind it and the perceived perception. 
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: dwaltman on April 19, 2017, 05:02:04 PM
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The original post seems to believe the motivation for being on DAMN was to reach a youthful audience. Truth is we know nothing about how it came about or the motivation in doing so.

I'm pretty tired of all the "U2 should do this or that" discussions.  I should do a lot of things too...but I don't. They are what they are, take it or leave it.


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Wow.  Can't believe this little comment led to a lengthy essay and it being called a "dickish" move.  I guess some posters are above reproach. The KL collaboration wasn't even out when the op was posted.  Most reactions I've seen to XXX have been positive.  There was a tone of condescension and that was what I was reacting to.

Actually, the KL collaboration was out when the op was posted.
Post 4/13
Release Date 4/14


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Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: lucas.homem on April 19, 2017, 05:26:39 PM
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The original post seems to believe the motivation for being on DAMN was to reach a youthful audience. Truth is we know nothing about how it came about or the motivation in doing so.

I'm pretty tired of all the "U2 should do this or that" discussions.  I should do a lot of things too...but I don't. They are what they are, take it or leave it.


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Wow.  Can't believe this little comment led to a lengthy essay and it being called a "dickish" move.  I guess some posters are above reproach. The KL collaboration wasn't even out when the op was posted.  Most reactions I've seen to XXX have been positive.  There was a tone of condescension and that was what I was reacting to.

Actually, the KL collaboration was out when the op was posted.
Post 4/13
Release Date 4/14


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Just trust me. The album was leaked one day before the release date and went viral in the internet (and here).
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: lucas.homem on April 19, 2017, 05:27:09 PM
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The original post seems to believe the motivation for being on DAMN was to reach a youthful audience. Truth is we know nothing about how it came about or the motivation in doing so.

I'm pretty tired of all the "U2 should do this or that" discussions.  I should do a lot of things too...but I don't. They are what they are, take it or leave it.


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Wow.  Can't believe this little comment led to a lengthy essay and it being called a "dickish" move.  I guess some posters are above reproach. The KL collaboration wasn't even out when the op was posted.  Most reactions I've seen to XXX have been positive.  There was a tone of condescension and that was what I was reacting to.

Actually, the KL collaboration was out when the op was posted.

The output of the collaboration wasn't the focus of the OP when this thread was posted, more the thought process behind it and the perceived perception.

Yes.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: lucas.homem on April 19, 2017, 06:45:16 PM
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The original post seems to believe the motivation for being on DAMN was to reach a youthful audience. Truth is we know nothing about how it came about or the motivation in doing so.

I'm pretty tired of all the "U2 should do this or that" discussions.  I should do a lot of things too...but I don't. They are what they are, take it or leave it.


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Wow.  Can't believe this little comment led to a lengthy essay and it being called a "dickish" move.  I guess some posters are above reproach. The KL collaboration wasn't even out when the op was posted.  Most reactions I've seen to XXX have been positive.  There was a tone of condescension and that was what I was reacting to.

Actually, the KL collaboration was out when the op was posted.
Post 4/13
Release Date 4/14


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Just trust me. The album was leaked one day before the release date and went viral in the internet (and here).

Disagree.  I'm a Kendrick Lamar fan.  It didn't leak until five hours before it was released.  Other than Labron James playing short snippets of five songs 10 hours before it was released on Instgram, or whatever.  I say this with confidence.  It definitely did not leak a day early.

At day 13, people were already talking about the song here, as you can see: http://forum.atu2.com/index.php/topic,31060.135.html

But maybe this topic was created a few hours earlier.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Vox on April 19, 2017, 08:21:46 PM
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The original post seems to believe the motivation for being on DAMN was to reach a youthful audience. Truth is we know nothing about how it came about or the motivation in doing so.

I'm pretty tired of all the "U2 should do this or that" discussions.  I should do a lot of things too...but I don't. They are what they are, take it or leave it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wow.  Can't believe this little comment led to a lengthy essay and it being called a "dickish" move.  I guess some posters are above reproach. The KL collaboration wasn't even out when the op was posted.  Most reactions I've seen to XXX have been positive.  There was a tone of condescension and that was what I was reacting to.

Actually, the KL collaboration was out when the op was posted.
Post 4/13
Release Date 4/14


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Just trust me. The album was leaked one day before the release date and went viral in the internet (and here).

Disagree.  I'm a Kendrick Lamar fan.  It didn't leak until five hours before it was released.  Other than Labron James playing short snippets of five songs 10 hours before it was released on Instgram, or whatever.  I say this with confidence.  It definitely did not leak a day early.

At day 13, people were already talking about the song here, as you can see: http://forum.atu2.com/index.php/topic,31060.135.html

But maybe this topic was created a few hours earlier.

Sorry Lucas.homem.  Looking at your post again-- I think we're both on the same page.  You are correct-- it was leaked on the 13th-- just 6 hours early.  And not during the OP.  We're both correct.  It's all good.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on April 20, 2017, 09:33:28 AM
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I just want to be excited and surprised by U2 and their music again. SOI is one of my least favourite albums of theirs, I find it so bland, so uninspiring, so dull. Plus, I CANNOT STAND 99% of rap, so I very much doubt I'm going to enjoy the new collaboration with this Kendrick guy. Honestly, collaborating with a rapper is the most predictable, yawn-worthy things artists can do, imo, and I'm disappointed that U2 head down this acutely well-worn route. I'm not keen on long established acts doing collaborations with 'young, trendy' artists to try and be relevant but I'm not completely against it if it produces something interesting and exciting. I wouldn't mind them doing some stuff with Lorde or Charli XCX, for example. They're both very talented young singer/songwriters.

Well having heard the track now, I must say it is different than I expected (which was that Bono would be "dueting" with Kendrick and rapping along with him which, thank God, he is not). It's more of an interlude or something, a break from the rap song during which a piano ballad is played.

It could've been much, much worse.

"What did he know and when did he know it?"

OP didn't listen to the Kendrick track until the 14th, the day after he posted his rant, FYI, which was really less about the song, anyway, and more about his perception of the state of U2 as an artistic entity.

I'd be curious to know if the rant would have been any different, even slightly, had he heard the track and read about its positive response on the net...

As an older U2 fan, I'm not opposed to the younger generations discovering their work through such collaborations, if that happens.  I agree with OP's nostalgia for a return to U2's experimentalism, but that might not happen.

On the other hand, Achtung Baby and Zooropa and Passengers came out of U2's left field, so I'm also open to the idea of them surprising us again someday.

And if nothing else, the Kendrick track WAS a surprise.

I'm a fan since 1980.  After spending the last few years of my U2 fandom focusing on what I wish they would do, I'm coming around to just enjoying the fact that they're still going at it 37 years later for us to think and talk about.
Title: VERY WELL PUT, The Exile . . .
Post by: Hawkmoon255 on April 20, 2017, 12:33:46 PM
I will qualify it in this way:  I don't mind U2 yearning and seeking to be relevant, and even to be liked by younger generations if they so choose to pursue that.  BUT, they need to first be okay with the possibility of that not happening, so that when they DO seek relevance and popularity amongst that crowd, they will do it the right way, which is to put their best stuff out there and market/distribute/publicize it accordingly, and then let the chips fall where they may, rather than trying to ingratiate themselves with popular acts and obtain "relevance by association."   That approach won't work anyway.

I've sort of always admired that U2 won't exactly "give up" on getting younger fans, but I wish they'd go about it differently sometimes -- just accept the possibility of failure regarding relevance, prioritize being GOOD, tasteful, and redeeming in all their work, placing relevance behind those elements whilst not abandoning it entirely.  In cases like Lamar, they are clearly putting relevance above the art itself.   I'm a huge, huge, massive U2 fan, and don't give two craps about that crappy Kendrick Lamar track- wish U2 hadn't stooped to it, and I'll never listen to it again.  It doesn't make me any less of a fan of U2, but I doubt there are any rap enthusiasts that cut their teeth on "bit--es and h-s" that are now out there listening to The Unforgettable Fire or Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own.   Not happening!
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Johnny Feathers on April 20, 2017, 12:52:09 PM
I can't say I care one way or the other about the KL collaboration, but that album is already critically acclaimed more than U2 has been in well over 10 years, and maybe more like 20.  If they acquit themselves on something like that, more power to them.  I mean, if it's a choice between them collaborating with KL on a critically-acclaimed track I may never hear, and collaborating with the Black Eyed Peas on drivel for the masses, I'll take the former any day of the week.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on April 20, 2017, 01:10:12 PM
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I'd be curious to know if the rant would have been any different, even slightly, had he heard the track and read about its positive response on the net...

Well like I said, the "rant" wasn't about the KL collab per se, and more about what it indicates for U2 regarding the relationship between their artistic vs. commercial interests.

As I mentioned, I don't mind the song since it's basically a cool jazzy interlude in an otherwise rap song. But I stand by my overall complaint, which is that U2 seem to let commercial concerns drive artistic ones (and it doesn't matter to me if someone points out that they've been doing this for however long, I still don't like it).

More Being Born and SLABT, and less Crazy Tonight and SFS, is what I'm saying.
Title: Re: VERY WELL PUT, The Exile . . .
Post by: The Exile on April 20, 2017, 01:12:39 PM
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... when they DO seek relevance and popularity amongst that crowd, they will do it the right way....

Yes. I think it was McG who said, way back during the UF documentary, that the band is not averse to hit singles provided they pursue it in the right way. Ironically, TUF is the album that (1) is among their very best, artistically speaking, and (2) produced the fewest hit singles.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Johnny Feathers on April 20, 2017, 01:14:58 PM
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I'd be curious to know if the rant would have been any different, even slightly, had he heard the track and read about its positive response on the net...

Well like I said, the "rant" wasn't about the KL collab per se, and more about what it indicates for U2 regarding the relationship between their artistic vs. commercial interests.

As I mentioned, I don't mind the song since it's basically a cool jazzy interlude in an otherwise rap song. But I stand by my overall complaint, which is that U2 seem to let commercial concerns drive artistic ones (and it doesn't matter to me if someone points out that they've been doing this for however long, I still don't like it).

More Being Born and SLABT, and less Crazy Tonight and SFS, is what I'm saying.

I don't disagree with your appraisal of SLABT vs. Crazy Tonight.  But I don't know that the KL collaboration indicates a commercially-driven decision by the band.  I mean, someone could maybe have said the same thing about them collaborating with Robbie Robertson in 1987.  They've done some occasional side work, some of which is decent, some less so.  (The "New Day" thing being maybe the worst thing any of them have been involved in.)  It's something that was probably a treat for them to get to work on, and not exactly an "of COURSE they're doing that" kind of thing.  So I guess I mostly either don't particularly care, or are willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I also haven't even heard it, FWIW.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: an tha on April 20, 2017, 01:19:10 PM
u2 aren't daft they know exactly who Lamar is and how big he is....they knew that working with him would attract a lot of 'column inches' and a lot of social media comments.

Whether they were invited or whether they were asked makes no difference - they knew that this would catapult them right into the middle of the public eye and get tongues wagging - so they were always going to say yes to any invitation weren't they....must have thought 'that is dead handy'....

I suppose there is nothing 'wrong' with that as such, they are of course free to do what they want - but not everybody has to like the approach and it of course makes for an interesting conversation piece.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: aviastar on April 20, 2017, 01:45:59 PM
Yesterday I had an episode that really drove the point home that U2 is not nearly as relevant as I remembered.  I called my mortgage servicer to set up an online account and the nice, young female customer service representative wanted me to come up with some security questions.  She was going through the list of security questions and I got this hilarious exchange:

Her: "How about 'what is your favorite band or musician'"?
Me: "ooh, ooh...U2".
Her: "Youtube?"
Me: "no...U2".
Her: "Oh...how do you spell it?"
Me: "uh...U and the number 2".
Her: "hm...interesting...well, not enough characters".
Me (in my head): Clearly you don't use Apple products.

Then I remembered this rep is probably 20 years old...and was probably like 7 years old when Bomb came out...and really that's probably the last time they had a lot of exposure outside of the SOI release furor (which was probably contained to online bloggers and the like)....I don't know what made me thought of this thread but clearly at this point U2 should just go and do whatever the hell they want...not a ton of people are paying attention.

Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Johnny Feathers on April 20, 2017, 01:47:45 PM
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u2 aren't daft they know exactly who Lamar is and how big he is....they knew that working with him would attract a lot of 'column inches' and a lot of social media comments.

Whether they were invited or whether they were asked makes no difference - they knew that this would catapult them right into the middle of the public eye and get tongues wagging - so they were always going to say yes to any invitation weren't they....must have thought 'that is dead handy'....

I suppose there is nothing 'wrong' with that as such, they are of course free to do what they want - but not everybody has to like the approach and it of course makes for an interesting conversation piece.

Considering how far left-field KL is from where U2 are--particularly currently--I think it has to be an honor for them.  And you realize they are probably being asked to be included on dozens of other projects every day.  I think they do a good job of limiting those projects to ones they probably want to do based on artistic reasons.  The only tongues I've heard wagging are ones wondering why KL invited them of all people, or commenting that U2 somehow didn't ruin the track.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Ultrafly on April 20, 2017, 01:48:52 PM
I think McG said something like they'd never changed a song or a mix with the aim of getting more sales, but the aim of making the song as good as they think it can be. But things like a shaped 7" picture disc is clearly marketing of the song to get more sales.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Johnny Feathers on April 20, 2017, 01:58:02 PM
But that means.....what?  That you're opposed to picture discs of songs that you can easily obtain without having to buy them?  I mean, there's a LOT of marketing decisions that go along with being one of the biggest bands in the world.  So we're objecting to that now?
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: an tha on April 20, 2017, 02:04:33 PM
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u2 aren't daft they know exactly who Lamar is and how big he is....they knew that working with him would attract a lot of 'column inches' and a lot of social media comments.

Whether they were invited or whether they were asked makes no difference - they knew that this would catapult them right into the middle of the public eye and get tongues wagging - so they were always going to say yes to any invitation weren't they....must have thought 'that is dead handy'....

I suppose there is nothing 'wrong' with that as such, they are of course free to do what they want - but not everybody has to like the approach and it of course makes for an interesting conversation piece.

Considering how far left-field KL is from where U2 are--particularly currently--I think it has to be an honor for them.  And you realize they are probably being asked to be included on dozens of other projects every day.  I think they do a good job of limiting those projects to ones they probably want to do based on artistic reasons.  The only tongues I've heard wagging are ones wondering why KL invited them of all people, or commenting that U2 somehow didn't ruin the track.

It has garnered them masses of coverage/talk....mission accomplished
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Johnny Feathers on April 20, 2017, 02:08:45 PM
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u2 aren't daft they know exactly who Lamar is and how big he is....they knew that working with him would attract a lot of 'column inches' and a lot of social media comments.

Whether they were invited or whether they were asked makes no difference - they knew that this would catapult them right into the middle of the public eye and get tongues wagging - so they were always going to say yes to any invitation weren't they....must have thought 'that is dead handy'....

I suppose there is nothing 'wrong' with that as such, they are of course free to do what they want - but not everybody has to like the approach and it of course makes for an interesting conversation piece.

Considering how far left-field KL is from where U2 are--particularly currently--I think it has to be an honor for them.  And you realize they are probably being asked to be included on dozens of other projects every day.  I think they do a good job of limiting those projects to ones they probably want to do based on artistic reasons.  The only tongues I've heard wagging are ones wondering why KL invited them of all people, or commenting that U2 somehow didn't ruin the track.

It has garnered them masses of coverage/talk....mission accomplished

U2 playing with ANYONE would get them coverage.  They could have played with Taylor Swift or Coldplay, or Mumford & Sons.  Maybe playing with KL gets them exposure to a different demographic, but that's about it.  Who could they have played with that wouldn't be greeted with accusations of selling out by the fans?
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: an tha on April 20, 2017, 02:16:29 PM
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u2 aren't daft they know exactly who Lamar is and how big he is....they knew that working with him would attract a lot of 'column inches' and a lot of social media comments.

Whether they were invited or whether they were asked makes no difference - they knew that this would catapult them right into the middle of the public eye and get tongues wagging - so they were always going to say yes to any invitation weren't they....must have thought 'that is dead handy'....

I suppose there is nothing 'wrong' with that as such, they are of course free to do what they want - but not everybody has to like the approach and it of course makes for an interesting conversation piece.

Considering how far left-field KL is from where U2 are--particularly currently--I think it has to be an honor for them.  And you realize they are probably being asked to be included on dozens of other projects every day.  I think they do a good job of limiting those projects to ones they probably want to do based on artistic reasons.  The only tongues I've heard wagging are ones wondering why KL invited them of all people, or commenting that U2 somehow didn't ruin the track.

It has garnered them masses of coverage/talk....mission accomplished

U2 playing with ANYONE would get them coverage.  They could have played with Taylor Swift or Coldplay, or Mumford & Sons.  Maybe playing with KL gets them exposure to a different demographic, but that's about it.  Who could they have played with that wouldn't be greeted with accusations of selling out by the fans?

I am not necessarily saying they have sold out...i am just saying that their decision to go with Lamar would be one made with the mindset of this is pretty much the jackpot - gets us coverage across the media in a big way and the cool media at that as well as 'the kids'....
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Blueyedboy on April 20, 2017, 02:17:56 PM
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u2 aren't daft they know exactly who Lamar is and how big he is....they knew that working with him would attract a lot of 'column inches' and a lot of social media comments.

Whether they were invited or whether they were asked makes no difference - they knew that this would catapult them right into the middle of the public eye and get tongues wagging - so they were always going to say yes to any invitation weren't they....must have thought 'that is dead handy'....

I suppose there is nothing 'wrong' with that as such, they are of course free to do what they want - but not everybody has to like the approach and it of course makes for an interesting conversation piece.

Considering how far left-field KL is from where U2 are--particularly currently--I think it has to be an honor for them.  And you realize they are probably being asked to be included on dozens of other projects every day.  I think they do a good job of limiting those projects to ones they probably want to do based on artistic reasons.  The only tongues I've heard wagging are ones wondering why KL invited them of all people, or commenting that U2 somehow didn't ruin the track.

It has garnered them masses of coverage/talk....mission accomplished

U2 playing with ANYONE would get them coverage.  They could have played with Taylor Swift or Coldplay, or Mumford & Sons.  Maybe playing with KL gets them exposure to a different demographic, but that's about it.  Who could they have played with that wouldn't be greeted with accusations of selling out by the fans?

I think the KL collaboration is as smooth a ride as it gets I'm afraid. You're right though, it would have been easier to collaborate with those other artists you mentioned, and the output would have sold some serious units regardless of the quality, kudos for the band in not taking the easy option.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Ultrafly on April 20, 2017, 02:19:54 PM
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But that means.....what?  That you're opposed to picture discs of songs that you can easily obtain without having to buy them?  I mean, there's a LOT of marketing decisions that go along with being one of the biggest bands in the world.  So we're objecting to that now?

Nah, I'm saying that :

1) McG said the band never changed any part of any song because they felt they could get more sales if they did it differently but
2) The band were totally OK with gimmicky formats like 2 x 7", picture discs etc as it was packaging around the song, not the song itself.

Can't remember where I read that 30 years ago though!
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Blueyedboy on April 20, 2017, 02:26:13 PM
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u2 aren't daft they know exactly who Lamar is and how big he is....they knew that working with him would attract a lot of 'column inches' and a lot of social media comments.

Whether they were invited or whether they were asked makes no difference - they knew that this would catapult them right into the middle of the public eye and get tongues wagging - so they were always going to say yes to any invitation weren't they....must have thought 'that is dead handy'....

I suppose there is nothing 'wrong' with that as such, they are of course free to do what they want - but not everybody has to like the approach and it of course makes for an interesting conversation piece.

Considering how far left-field KL is from where U2 are--particularly currently--I think it has to be an honor for them.  And you realize they are probably being asked to be included on dozens of other projects every day.  I think they do a good job of limiting those projects to ones they probably want to do based on artistic reasons.  The only tongues I've heard wagging are ones wondering why KL invited them of all people, or commenting that U2 somehow didn't ruin the track.

It has garnered them masses of coverage/talk....mission accomplished

U2 playing with ANYONE would get them coverage.  They could have played with Taylor Swift or Coldplay, or Mumford & Sons.  Maybe playing with KL gets them exposure to a different demographic, but that's about it.  Who could they have played with that wouldn't be greeted with accusations of selling out by the fans?

I am not necessarily saying they have sold out...i am just saying that their decision to go with Lamar would be one made with the mindset of this is pretty much the jackpot - gets us coverage across the media in a big way and the cool media at that as well as 'the kids'....

I certainly gained some exposure within the U2 and KL/Rap community, but has it made that much of an impact that the wider audience even knows that this has happened?
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Johnny Feathers on April 20, 2017, 02:31:17 PM
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u2 aren't daft they know exactly who Lamar is and how big he is....they knew that working with him would attract a lot of 'column inches' and a lot of social media comments.

Whether they were invited or whether they were asked makes no difference - they knew that this would catapult them right into the middle of the public eye and get tongues wagging - so they were always going to say yes to any invitation weren't they....must have thought 'that is dead handy'....

I suppose there is nothing 'wrong' with that as such, they are of course free to do what they want - but not everybody has to like the approach and it of course makes for an interesting conversation piece.

Considering how far left-field KL is from where U2 are--particularly currently--I think it has to be an honor for them.  And you realize they are probably being asked to be included on dozens of other projects every day.  I think they do a good job of limiting those projects to ones they probably want to do based on artistic reasons.  The only tongues I've heard wagging are ones wondering why KL invited them of all people, or commenting that U2 somehow didn't ruin the track.

It has garnered them masses of coverage/talk....mission accomplished

U2 playing with ANYONE would get them coverage.  They could have played with Taylor Swift or Coldplay, or Mumford & Sons.  Maybe playing with KL gets them exposure to a different demographic, but that's about it.  Who could they have played with that wouldn't be greeted with accusations of selling out by the fans?

I think the KL collaboration is as smooth a ride as it gets I'm afraid. You're right though, it would have been easier to collaborate with those other artists you mentioned, and the output would have sold some serious units regardless of the quality, kudos for the band in not taking the easy option.

That's my take, anyway.  And as popular as KL may be, he's well outside my particular sphere, other than a vague familiarity with the name.  Granted, I'm pasty white, not a rap fan, and old.  So when I hear U2 participated in a critically-acclaimed album with an artist as different as KL, all I can say is "good for them".
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on April 21, 2017, 12:33:33 PM
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McG said the band never changed any part of any song because they felt they could get more sales....

Well even if this were true on the band's part (which it's most likely not), what does it matter when the band will change an entire album in order to get for sales for it?

Like I've been saying, I am not sure how aware U2 is when it comes to this line between art and commerce.

"For love or money?" It's still a pretty good question after all this time.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Blueyedboy on April 21, 2017, 01:11:50 PM
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McG said the band never changed any part of any song because they felt they could get more sales....

Well even if this were true on the band's part (which it's most likely not), what does it matter when the band will change an entire album in order to get for sales for it?

Like I've been saying, I am not sure how aware U2 is when it comes to this line between art and commerce.

"For love or money?" It's still a pretty good question after all this time.

The fact that SOA didn't happen answers that particular question.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: lucas.homem on April 21, 2017, 03:53:10 PM
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u2 aren't daft they know exactly who Lamar is and how big he is....they knew that working with him would attract a lot of 'column inches' and a lot of social media comments.

Whether they were invited or whether they were asked makes no difference - they knew that this would catapult them right into the middle of the public eye and get tongues wagging - so they were always going to say yes to any invitation weren't they....must have thought 'that is dead handy'....

I suppose there is nothing 'wrong' with that as such, they are of course free to do what they want - but not everybody has to like the approach and it of course makes for an interesting conversation piece.

Of course they knew this could be good marketing, but what people tend to purposefully ignore is that, maybe, they also liked to do this collaboration just for the sake of it.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on April 21, 2017, 08:09:30 PM
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McG said the band never changed any part of any song because they felt they could get more sales....

Well even if this were true on the band's part (which it's most likely not), what does it matter when the band will change an entire album in order to get for sales for it?

Like I've been saying, I am not sure how aware U2 is when it comes to this line between art and commerce.

"For love or money?" It's still a pretty good question after all this time.

I remember reading an article a long time ago that I'm fairly certain was about U2 or included Bono that discussed the role of data analytics or something computer-related about measurements of song popularity or something to that effect... 

Maybe it was related to Guy O'Seary?  Anyway, what made an impression on me was that it sounded like some bands these days examine such data as part of the music making process, or at least the business of music making part of the process, and that such information plays as much of a role in decision-making as what the bassist thinks, what the drummer thinks, etc. ...and that maybe it's possible to "design" and "program" a hit...

Check out the PBS documentary Generation Like for a behind the scenes look at how the entertainment industry uses social media.  They are able to record and analyze every like, click, share, etc. and apply that information to their campaigns.  It's quite eye opening, or at least it was for me. 

I could see a band like U2, who always want to be on the cutting edge of things, embracing or at least exploring analytics and all the tools of the digital age, including analytics related to sales and what sells, etc. 

But regardless of where they're at now, I think U2 has ALWAYS been about love AND money.  They wanted to be the biggest band in the world right from the start and I don't think they ever thought that money was not an important part of that equation.

I recently thought about where I'm at in my career and pay scale and how most of us will never achieve the level of fame and income as someone like U2, which led me to wonder why we spend so much time worshipping people who have so much...funded by us.  What triggered these thoughts?  Opening to a random page in Brian Eno's diary and reading his description of a night out with Bono at a casino in Monaco around the time Passengers was being made.

Eno simultaneously commented critically about the shallowness of the scene and everyone there while describing the thousands of dollars he and Bono gambled.  I'm making more money than I did when Passengers came out and working a job I love doing, but the thought of throwing away a hundred bucks at a casino, for me, would have to be weighed heavily against paying bills.

These guys exist...and have existed for a long time...in a reality alien to the one most of us live our lives in...  If I knew that something I decided to do or not do might benefit me to the tune of X millions of dollars, I'd probably be pretty calculating too.  If only.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Kmama07 on April 21, 2017, 09:34:32 PM
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McG said the band never changed any part of any song because they felt they could get more sales....

Well even if this were true on the band's part (which it's most likely not), what does it matter when the band will change an entire album in order to get for sales for it?

Like I've been saying, I am not sure how aware U2 is when it comes to this line between art and commerce.

"For love or money?" It's still a pretty good question after all this time.

I remember reading an article a long time ago that I'm fairly certain was about U2 or included Bono that discussed the role of data analytics or something computer-related about measurements of song popularity or something to that effect... 

Maybe it was related to Guy O'Seary?  Anyway, what made an impression on me was that it sounded like some bands these days examine such data as part of the music making process, or at least the business of music making part of the process, and that such information plays as much of a role in decision-making as what the bassist thinks, what the drummer thinks, etc. ...and that maybe it's possible to "design" and "program" a hit...

Check out the PBS documentary Generation Like for a behind the scenes look at how the entertainment industry uses social media.  They are able to record and analyze every like, click, share, etc. and apply that information to their campaigns.  It's quite eye opening, or at least it was for me. 

I could see a band like U2, who always want to be on the cutting edge of things, embracing or at least exploring analytics and all the tools of the digital age, including analytics related to sales and what sells, etc. 

But regardless of where they're at now, I think U2 has ALWAYS been about love AND money.  They wanted to be the biggest band in the world right from the start and I don't think they ever thought that money was not an important part of that equation.

I recently thought about where I'm at in my career and pay scale and how most of us will never achieve the level of fame and income as someone like U2, which led me to wonder why we spend so much time worshipping people who have so much...funded by us.  What triggered these thoughts?  Opening to a random page in Brian Eno's diary and reading his description of a night out with Bono at a casino in Monaco around the time Passengers was being made.

Eno simultaneously commented critically about the shallowness of the scene and everyone there while describing the thousands of dollars he and Bono gambled. I'm making more money than I did when Passengers came out and working a job I love doing, but the thought of throwing away a hundred bucks at a casino, for me, would have to be weighed heavily against paying bills.

These guys exist...and have existed for a long time...in a reality alien to the one most of us live our lives in...  If I knew that something I decided to do or not do might benefit me to the tune of X millions of dollars, I'd probably be pretty calculating too.  If only.
Interesting and valid points.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Ultrafly on April 22, 2017, 02:04:27 AM
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McG said the band never changed any part of any song because they felt they could get more sales....

Well even if this were true on the band's part (which it's most likely not), what does it matter when the band will change an entire album in order to get for sales for it?

Like I've been saying, I am not sure how aware U2 is when it comes to this line between art and commerce.

"For love or money?" It's still a pretty good question after all this time.

I remember reading an article a long time ago that I'm fairly certain was about U2 or included Bono that discussed the role of data analytics or something computer-related about measurements of song popularity or something to that effect... 

Maybe it was related to Guy O'Seary?  Anyway, what made an impression on me was that it sounded like some bands these days examine such data as part of the music making process, or at least the business of music making part of the process, and that such information plays as much of a role in decision-making as what the bassist thinks, what the drummer thinks, etc. ...and that maybe it's possible to "design" and "program" a hit...

Check out the PBS documentary Generation Like for a behind the scenes look at how the entertainment industry uses social media.  They are able to record and analyze every like, click, share, etc. and apply that information to their campaigns.  It's quite eye opening, or at least it was for me. 

I could see a band like U2, who always want to be on the cutting edge of things, embracing or at least exploring analytics and all the tools of the digital age, including analytics related to sales and what sells, etc. 

But regardless of where they're at now, I think U2 has ALWAYS been about love AND money.  They wanted to be the biggest band in the world right from the start and I don't think they ever thought that money was not an important part of that equation.

I recently thought about where I'm at in my career and pay scale and how most of us will never achieve the level of fame and income as someone like U2, which led me to wonder why we spend so much time worshipping people who have so much...funded by us.  What triggered these thoughts?  Opening to a random page in Brian Eno's diary and reading his description of a night out with Bono at a casino in Monaco around the time Passengers was being made.

Eno simultaneously commented critically about the shallowness of the scene and everyone there while describing the thousands of dollars he and Bono gambled. I'm making more money than I did when Passengers came out and working a job I love doing, but the thought of throwing away a hundred bucks at a casino, for me, would have to be weighed heavily against paying bills.

These guys exist...and have existed for a long time...in a reality alien to the one most of us live our lives in...  If I knew that something I decided to do or not do might benefit me to the tune of X millions of dollars, I'd probably be pretty calculating too.  If only.
Interesting and valid points.

Certainly U2 are businessmen, and have always been aware of the position of their work, the market tolerances, and money. (U2 Show has a fascinating interview about ticket pricing where the band calculate the number of sales vs. price points & scale accordingly to maximise both number of people in the room, amount of revenue and cost of the show).

For one perspective, Eno, Bono, etc are absolutely incredibly rich. Bono's wealth was calculated at 2001 at something like $710m and that was before his companies had shares in Facebook and before U23D got the patent for 3D Movie Cameras, etc. Spending thousands in Monaco to them is probably like us buying a can of sofa : they won't "feel" it. They are financially secure and have been ever since they decided to get paid by shares in Island instead of demand royalties when Island was short of cash in the mid/late 80's. Of course, they then sold Island on the back of U2's enormous success, so effectively floated their own band on the stock exchange.

U2 are so well off, they haven't had to work since around 1989, all the bills are paid and will always be paid unless they get Michael Jackson style spending habits, and to an extent, they are now, as a reviewer of "Pop" once said, "Living in a Post-sex world" : what happens when you don't have to worry about money, sex, love, because you are successful and secure and all those things are taken care of? U2 are at the top of "Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs" and need never consider those things again - which may be why they are so obsessed with relevance and influence.

Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on April 22, 2017, 08:25:16 AM
"...what happens when you don't have to worry about money, sex, love, because you are successful and secure and all those things are taken care of?"

I don't know.  :(
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: riffraff on April 22, 2017, 08:34:27 AM
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"...what happens when you don't have to worry about money, sex, love, because you are successful and secure and all those things are taken care of?"

I don't know.  :(
I doubt that ANYONE really knows...
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Kurukira on April 23, 2017, 05:15:20 PM
I guess you'll have to count me as one of those who prefer to stay in 1997.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on April 23, 2017, 06:39:11 PM
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I guess you'll have to count me as one of those who prefer to stay in 1997.

Back in '82 I could throw a pigskin a quarter mile....
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: KaLaM on April 24, 2017, 11:06:59 AM
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I guess you'll have to count me as one of those who prefer to stay in 1997.

Back in '82 I could throw a pigskin a quarter mile....

Are you serious?
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: WookieeWarrior10 on April 24, 2017, 11:28:07 AM
I'm dead serious.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Kmama07 on May 21, 2017, 12:08:08 PM
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... it sounds like Exile is elitist enough for the band and most of their fans too. I completely get that being a lifelong hardcore fan of U2 is a precious thing but it doesn't do anyone any good to be so possessive about it.

Let's not devolve into personal insults.

But yeah, I am an elitist of sorts. I think U2 is better than Coldplay, better than Katy Perry, and better than Fetty Wap. I think they are tarnishing their legacy by desperately pining to be popular. It's like they have PLEASE LIKE US painted across their chests, and it's kinda unseemly.

Like many of us, I have invested the majority of my life (not to mention plenty of money) into my U2 fandom. While I wouldn't say they owe me anything, I can still mourn when I see them collaborate with Wyclef Jean or Missy Elliot.

To anyone outside this forum I am a fierce U2 defender. But this should be a safe place to rant every now and then.
Well said. Agreed
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: shineinthesummernight on May 21, 2017, 06:04:22 PM
I look forward to the day U2 plays small venues.  They will, in time.  In the meantime, I just take what comes and enjoy it for what it's worth.  There will be good times on this tour, no doubt. Later on, we diehards can enjoy them in small venues when they "accept their age", lol.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Saint1322 on May 22, 2017, 08:51:05 AM
All of this over a little quickie stadium run to celebrate the anniversary of an album before a new release and arena tour.

There seems to be this disconnect with some of y'all about this tour: This run of stadiums isn't taking the place of SOE or the forthcoming tour. The album was delayed, and not for this tour. The one didn't cause the other. The album was delayed, and I think it is entirely possible that U2 had promised LN a tour this year and needed to make good on it. Maybe, maybe not. Either way, were it not for this tour, we'd have nothing but more impatient waiting.

For whatever reason, they aren't 100 percent confident in what they have for SOE, but they are CLOSE. In the meantime, they are doing this run of shows. Otherwise, we'd just be waiting with nothing to do in the meantime.

There's not much time left on this thing, y'all. Maybe some of you who saw TJT the first time and have seen 60 shows are bored with this stuff, but I am 40 and have only seen seven U2 shows, and I want every single one I can get. I'd much rather have a new album and a stadium tour, but that's not ready yet, so I'll take this and enjoy it, thank you.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on May 22, 2017, 11:45:02 AM
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All of this over a little quickie stadium run to celebrate the anniversary of an album before a new release and arena tour.

I think a little more critical thinking is called for here. I, for one, didn't believe for a second that the band felt this artistic compulsion to connect the thematic and political dots between Reagan/Thatcher and Trump and therefore launched this tour. Like many of us (and many journalists), I felt like it was a safe place for U2 to go as an excuse to delay their new album even further. And it appears we were right, if these South America rumors prove true.

As I said somewhere else, if they use this spotlight to springboard straight to a new album and tour, then good on 'em, it was smart. But I have my doubts.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Spacejunk69 on May 22, 2017, 11:50:55 AM
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All of this over a little quickie stadium run to celebrate the anniversary of an album before a new release and arena tour.

I think a little more critical thinking is called for here. I, for one, didn't believe for a second that the band felt this artistic compulsion to connect the thematic and political dots between Reagan/Thatcher and Trump and therefore launched this tour. Like many of us (and many journalists), I felt like it was a safe place for U2 to go as an excuse to delay their new album even further. And it appears we were right, if these South America rumors prove true.

As I said somewhere else, if they use this spotlight to springboard straight to a new album and tour, then good on 'em, it was smart. But I have my doubts.

Agreed.

I don't believe we will see a new U2 album for at least two years. POSSIBLY released in Oct/Nov 2018 with an arena tour in the spring of 2019 is quite realistic though. Nothing this year I'm afraid.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Saint1322 on May 22, 2017, 12:02:52 PM
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All of this over a little quickie stadium run to celebrate the anniversary of an album before a new release and arena tour.

I think a little more critical thinking is called for here. I, for one, didn't believe for a second that the band felt this artistic compulsion to connect the thematic and political dots between Reagan/Thatcher and Trump and therefore launched this tour. Like many of us (and many journalists), I felt like it was a safe place for U2 to go as an excuse to delay their new album even further. And it appears we were right, if these South America rumors prove true.

As I said somewhere else, if they use this spotlight to springboard straight to a new album and tour, then good on 'em, it was smart. But I have my doubts.

Actually friend, you are OVER-thinking this whole thing, and you are being negative for no reason. You are free to think and believe whatever you choose, but doesn't make it the gospel truth.

We don't know the exact motivation for delaying SOE and doing this tour now. We have what U2 have told us, and we have the obvious other reasons we can all come up with. Minus a smoking gun to prove otherwise, I am content to believe the band. They aren't perfect, but over a 40-year period, they've got a pretty good amount of goodwill built up with me.

Secondly, I don't see any logic in delaying the album for financial reasons, as some have hinted. What, people weren't going to buy just as many seats to see part 2 of I+E so U2 needed a gimmick to put their kids through school? I am sorry to be a wise-guy, but you have to accept criticism of your explanation just as you dish it out for others. Album sales are down for U2, legacy acts and acts of all stripes industry wide. There's no doubt about that. The money is in the touring, but U2 would have made just as much -- if not more -- with a full-on I+E Tour.

The easiest explanation is usually the right one. In recent years, really going back to HTDAAB, U2 have seemed really unsure of themselves when it comes to releasing new albums, so there's nothing new here. They started all over with Atomic Bomb. No Line was delayed the track listing was altered at the last minute. SOI took four years. We still don't have SOA might not ever. Why would SOE be any different? They are slow. They are getting slower as they get older. There's no mystery or magic here.

My point is, this isn't unusual, uncommon or frankly unexpected in any way. For whatever reason, U2 aren't ready to release SOE, so in the interim, it was sit out 2017 or do a quick run with TJT. And if ending shows with a new song and the (apparent) new album cover on the screen doesn't convince you that SOE is in fact coming within months of this tour ending this year -- after it is extended to South American for all of one month if rumors are true -- you simply are being pessimistic for pessimism's sake, and there's no convincing you otherwise. 

The bottom line is, we are still going to get SOE, and we are still going to get I+E Part 2. Soon. The only surprise is, a 6-month stadium run in the meantime.

I am just not seeing the problem. SOE was always going to be an end-of-year release. Edge told us late last year it wasn't quite ready yet. Would your rather be twiddling your thumbs waiting some more, or go see the best rock band ever this summer in the interim?
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Delvis Crasho on May 22, 2017, 01:40:06 PM
Personally, I never give up a chance to see U2 in a stadium. Say what you will about smaller, more "intimate" settings but U2 is meant to be seen and heard in a stadium along with 50,000+ fans.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Spacejunk69 on May 22, 2017, 01:43:17 PM
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Personally, I never give up a chance to see U2 in a stadium. Say what you will about smaller, more "intimate" settings but U2 is meant to be seen and heard in a stadium along with 50,000+ fans.

Completely disagree with this, sorry.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Saint1322 on May 22, 2017, 01:44:12 PM
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Personally, I never give up a chance to see U2 in a stadium. Say what you will about smaller, more "intimate" settings but U2 is meant to be seen and heard in a stadium along with 50,000+ fans.

More an arena guy myself, but I really disagree with the above comment that U2 will end up playing smaller rooms. I think when that day comes, they are all out the door. I can't see them going out playing amphitheaters and large theaters the way REM did. And honestly, I don't see that happening unless they started just touring CONSTANTLY the way Springsteen has done the last decade or so. U2's status as a legendary live act will allow them to play arenas at will until the retire, IMO. If something changes that, you aren't seeing them in a shed or a theater. It isn't in their DNA.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: mariamontreal on May 22, 2017, 02:34:27 PM
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Personally, I never give up a chance to see U2 in a stadium. Say what you will about smaller, more "intimate" settings but U2 is meant to be seen and heard in a stadium along with 50,000+ fans.

More an arena guy myself, but I really disagree with the above comment that U2 will end up playing smaller rooms. I think when that day comes, they are all out the door. I can't see them going out playing amphitheaters and large theaters the way REM did. And honestly, I don't see that happening unless they started just touring CONSTANTLY the way Springsteen has done the last decade or so. U2's status as a legendary live act will allow them to play arenas at will until the retire, IMO. If something changes that, you aren't seeing them in a shed or a theater. It isn't in their DNA.
I  too prefer U2 in an arena setting Stadiums are too huge you really have to be up close in arenas everyone has a good view and the sound is better.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Saint1322 on May 22, 2017, 02:42:06 PM
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Personally, I never give up a chance to see U2 in a stadium. Say what you will about smaller, more "intimate" settings but U2 is meant to be seen and heard in a stadium along with 50,000+ fans.

More an arena guy myself, but I really disagree with the above comment that U2 will end up playing smaller rooms. I think when that day comes, they are all out the door. I can't see them going out playing amphitheaters and large theaters the way REM did. And honestly, I don't see that happening unless they started just touring CONSTANTLY the way Springsteen has done the last decade or so. U2's status as a legendary live act will allow them to play arenas at will until the retire, IMO. If something changes that, you aren't seeing them in a shed or a theater. It isn't in their DNA.
I  too prefer U2 in an arena setting Stadiums are too huge you really have to be up close in arenas everyone has a good view and the sound is better.
Agree 100 percent. The sound is almost always better in arenas, with one exception I know of personally: the Philips Arena in Atlanta. I have never seen U2 there, but I have seen other shows there, and the sound was better in the late Georgia Dome than it was in that arena.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Ultrafly on May 22, 2017, 04:09:54 PM
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All of this over a little quickie stadium run to celebrate the anniversary of an album before a new release and arena tour.

I think a little more critical thinking is called for here. I, for one, didn't believe for a second that the band felt this artistic compulsion to connect the thematic and political dots between Reagan/Thatcher and Trump and therefore launched this tour. Like many of us (and many journalists), I felt like it was a safe place for U2 to go as an excuse to delay their new album even further. And it appears we were right, if these South America rumors prove true.

As I said somewhere else, if they use this spotlight to springboard straight to a new album and tour, then good on 'em, it was smart. But I have my doubts.

Actually friend, you are OVER-thinking this whole thing, and you are being negative for no reason. You are free to think and believe whatever you choose, but doesn't make it the gospel truth.

We don't know the exact motivation for delaying SOE and doing this tour now. We have what U2 have told us, and we have the obvious other reasons we can all come up with. Minus a smoking gun to prove otherwise, I am content to believe the band. They aren't perfect, but over a 40-year period, they've got a pretty good amount of goodwill built up with me.

Secondly, I don't see any logic in delaying the album for financial reasons, as some have hinted. What, people weren't going to buy just as many seats to see part 2 of I+E so U2 needed a gimmick to put their kids through school? I am sorry to be a wise-guy, but you have to accept criticism of your explanation just as you dish it out for others. Album sales are down for U2, legacy acts and acts of all stripes industry wide. There's no doubt about that. The money is in the touring, but U2 would have made just as much -- if not more -- with a full-on I+E Tour.

The easiest explanation is usually the right one. In recent years, really going back to HTDAAB, U2 have seemed really unsure of themselves when it comes to releasing new albums, so there's nothing new here. They started all over with Atomic Bomb. No Line was delayed the track listing was altered at the last minute. SOI took four years. We still don't have SOA might not ever. Why would SOE be any different? They are slow. They are getting slower as they get older. There's no mystery or magic here.

My point is, this isn't unusual, uncommon or frankly unexpected in any way. For whatever reason, U2 aren't ready to release SOE, so in the interim, it was sit out 2017 or do a quick run with TJT. And if ending shows with a new song and the (apparent) new album cover on the screen doesn't convince you that SOE is in fact coming within months of this tour ending this year -- after it is extended to South American for all of one month if rumors are true -- you simply are being pessimistic for pessimism's sake, and there's no convincing you otherwise. 

The bottom line is, we are still going to get SOE, and we are still going to get I+E Part 2. Soon. The only surprise is, a 6-month stadium run in the meantime.

I am just not seeing the problem. SOE was always going to be an end-of-year release. Edge told us late last year it wasn't quite ready yet. Would your rather be twiddling your thumbs waiting some more, or go see the best rock band ever this summer in the interim?

Hmm.

U2 saw a quick and easy way to plump up the profile with a smallish number of high profile stadium gigs and a Money-For-Old-Rope box set.

They seem to spend more time overthinking every last millisecond of every song : their work is felt, not thought. They should do more of that, and less navel gazing.

If SOE doesn't come out this winter, they will have utterly dropped the ball here in terms of profile. They have promised us SOE 'soon', and it's been three years. In no world is three years 'soon'. Any claim that Trump and Brexit mean they now have to rewrite the album is mere excuses : a great album can and should exist outside political events.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: eddyjedi on May 22, 2017, 04:28:03 PM
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Personally, I never give up a chance to see U2 in a stadium. Say what you will about smaller, more "intimate" settings but U2 is meant to be seen and heard in a stadium along with 50,000+ fans.

Completely disagree with this, sorry.

I definitely think their music is written for the masses, for sure.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on May 22, 2017, 06:14:05 PM
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The bottom line is, we are still going to get SOE, and we are still going to get I+E Part 2. Soon. The only surprise is, a 6-month stadium run in the meantime.

It must be nice to know that this is "the bottom line." Could you pass along official links with those dates for us?

 ;)
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Hawkmoon255 on May 24, 2017, 09:34:01 AM
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All of this over a little quickie stadium run to celebrate the anniversary of an album before a new release and arena tour.

I think a little more critical thinking is called for here. I, for one, didn't believe for a second that the band felt this artistic compulsion to connect the thematic and political dots between Reagan/Thatcher and Trump and therefore launched this tour. Like many of us (and many journalists), I felt like it was a safe place for U2 to go as an excuse to delay their new album even further. And it appears we were right, if these South America rumors prove true.

As I said somewhere else, if they use this spotlight to springboard straight to a new album and tour, then good on 'em, it was smart. But I have my doubts.

Actually friend, you are OVER-thinking this whole thing, and you are being negative for no reason. You are free to think and believe whatever you choose, but doesn't make it the gospel truth.

We don't know the exact motivation for delaying SOE and doing this tour now. We have what U2 have told us, and we have the obvious other reasons we can all come up with. Minus a smoking gun to prove otherwise, I am content to believe the band. They aren't perfect, but over a 40-year period, they've got a pretty good amount of goodwill built up with me.

Secondly, I don't see any logic in delaying the album for financial reasons, as some have hinted. What, people weren't going to buy just as many seats to see part 2 of I+E so U2 needed a gimmick to put their kids through school? I am sorry to be a wise-guy, but you have to accept criticism of your explanation just as you dish it out for others. Album sales are down for U2, legacy acts and acts of all stripes industry wide. There's no doubt about that. The money is in the touring, but U2 would have made just as much -- if not more -- with a full-on I+E Tour.

The easiest explanation is usually the right one. In recent years, really going back to HTDAAB, U2 have seemed really unsure of themselves when it comes to releasing new albums, so there's nothing new here. They started all over with Atomic Bomb. No Line was delayed the track listing was altered at the last minute. SOI took four years. We still don't have SOA might not ever. Why would SOE be any different? They are slow. They are getting slower as they get older. There's no mystery or magic here.

My point is, this isn't unusual, uncommon or frankly unexpected in any way. For whatever reason, U2 aren't ready to release SOE, so in the interim, it was sit out 2017 or do a quick run with TJT. And if ending shows with a new song and the (apparent) new album cover on the screen doesn't convince you that SOE is in fact coming within months of this tour ending this year -- after it is extended to South American for all of one month if rumors are true -- you simply are being pessimistic for pessimism's sake, and there's no convincing you otherwise. 

The bottom line is, we are still going to get SOE, and we are still going to get I+E Part 2. Soon. The only surprise is, a 6-month stadium run in the meantime.

I am just not seeing the problem. SOE was always going to be an end-of-year release. Edge told us late last year it wasn't quite ready yet. Would your rather be twiddling your thumbs waiting some more, or go see the best rock band ever this summer in the interim?

Hmm.

U2 saw a quick and easy way to plump up the profile with a smallish number of high profile stadium gigs and a Money-For-Old-Rope box set.

They seem to spend more time overthinking every last millisecond of every song : their work is felt, not thought. They should do more of that, and less navel gazing.

If SOE doesn't come out this winter, they will have utterly dropped the ball here in terms of profile. They have promised us SOE 'soon', and it's been three years. In no world is three years 'soon'. Any claim that Trump and Brexit mean they now have to rewrite the album is mere excuses : a great album can and should exist outside political events.

Yeah, I think this is more or less correct.  I do agree with the poster who said he had his doubts about them being artistically motivated to tour JT b/c of Trump/Brexit.  I get that there are some connections one can make, but I have a hard time seeing that as much more than an after-the-fact justification to make it seem less nostalgic and more relevant than many would otherwise assess it as - which is a shame, b/c I don't think they need to justify it.  Nostalgia can in fact be overdone, and I appreciate they don't want to devolve into unbridled nostalgia at the expense of forward movement, but I think they can walk and chew gum at the same time and don't need to apologize or justify themselves.  The Joshua Tree was a landmark work and this celebration of it is plenty worthy.  For those of us who weren't quite of concert going age - or for whatever reason missed the '87 JT Tour, we're like giddy children at Christmas. 

But yeah I agree, this is nothing so much contrived as it is an aligning of the stars (and the schedule).  For various reasons SOE wasn't going to be ready for early or mid-2017 - the JT happens to be 30 years old, and keeping a high profile leading into the release of SOE won't hurt either - and for a band that's aiming to keep a profile in today's balkanized and millennial-driven music market, there's no shame in thinking out a timing strategy for marketing.  But I don't think a stoic, heartless, dollar-grab as the sole or even primary driving factor fits in with what we know about U2 or the way they do things. 
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Blueyedboy on May 24, 2017, 09:38:14 PM
Could it be that the band are contractually tied into to two more tours with Live Nation?
Could it be that U2 only want to make one final studio Album?
Could it be that TJT30 allows SOE to be their farewell tour?

Tune in next week to find out.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: trevgreg on May 24, 2017, 10:06:09 PM
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Yeah, I think this is more or less correct.  I do agree with the poster who said he had his doubts about them being artistically motivated to tour JT b/c of Trump/Brexit.  I get that there are some connections one can make, but I have a hard time seeing that as much more than an after-the-fact justification to make it seem less nostalgic and more relevant than many would otherwise assess it as - which is a shame, b/c I don't think they need to justify it.  Nostalgia can in fact be overdone, and I appreciate they don't want to devolve into unbridled nostalgia at the expense of forward movement, but I think they can walk and chew gum at the same time and don't need to apologize or justify themselves.  The Joshua Tree was a landmark work and this celebration of it is plenty worthy.  For those of us who weren't quite of concert going age - or for whatever reason missed the '87 JT Tour, we're like giddy children at Christmas. 

But yeah I agree, this is nothing so much contrived as it is an aligning of the stars (and the schedule).  For various reasons SOE wasn't going to be ready for early or mid-2017 - the JT happens to be 30 years old, and keeping a high profile leading into the release of SOE won't hurt either - and for a band that's aiming to keep a profile in today's balkanized and millennial-driven music market, there's no shame in thinking out a timing strategy for marketing.  But I don't think a stoic, heartless, dollar-grab as the sole or even primary driving factor fits in with what we know about U2 or the way they do things.

I agree. It is what it is and if SOE isn't ready, then we'd be complaining about not having else going on this year either. I suspect the Trump thing is probably a bit of a story as well to give an excuse to delaying things a bit longer, but it hasn't even been three calendar years since SOI came out. After that wait, I'm willing to be a bit more patient here. Plus, with a band that gets interviewed or is on high a public profile as this one, you have to say something other than "It's ready when it's ready" or "Well, we're still working on whatever and think the stuff so far isn't up to par." That just doesn't happen and probably shouldn't, even when they (i.e., Bono) gets eviscerated on here for saying Edge is "on fire" or brings Trump up.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: AllThoseThingsILove on May 24, 2017, 10:30:27 PM
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... it sounds like Exile is elitist enough for the band and most of their fans too. I completely get that being a lifelong hardcore fan of U2 is a precious thing but it doesn't do anyone any good to be so possessive about it.

Let's not devolve into personal insults.

But yeah, I am an elitist of sorts. I think U2 is better than Coldplay, better than Katy Perry, and better than Fetty Wap. I think they are tarnishing their legacy by desperately pining to be popular. It's like they have PLEASE LIKE US painted across their chests, and it's kinda unseemly.

Like many of us, I have invested the majority of my life (not to mention plenty of money) into my U2 fandom. While I wouldn't say they owe me anything, I can still mourn when I see them collaborate with Wyclef Jean or Missy Elliot.

To anyone outside this forum I am a fierce U2 defender. But this should be a safe place to rant every now and then.

^^^ Last line. My life.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on May 24, 2017, 10:31:48 PM
....Missy Elliot? uh i think you mean Mary J. Blige....?
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: SwimmingSorrows on May 25, 2017, 02:42:06 AM
U2 have collaborated with people they like for decades, from B. B. King and Dylan through Pavarotti and now to Kendrick.  He's a great artists they respect.  Why not collaborate?  Also nobody is saying they ruined that song.  In fact, it got them the respect of a lot of rap fans.

I agree on the main point, that they should be aiming for respect not popularity, but the Kendrick collab is exactly what they should be doing, making great music.  They're elder statesmen now, and that means they get to do for Kendrick what B. B. King did for for them. 
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Saint1322 on May 25, 2017, 09:52:53 AM
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The bottom line is, we are still going to get SOE, and we are still going to get I+E Part 2. Soon. The only surprise is, a 6-month stadium run in the meantime.

It must be nice to know that this is "the bottom line." Could you pass along official links with those dates for us?

 ;)

Do you have the retirement press release link? Because it is one or the other; either this is going as planned, or U2 are calling it a career after this tour. My scenario is rooted in quotes from the band and past behavior. Yours is rooted in your own disappointment and paranoia.

And I am not meaning to be a jerk; I genuinely hate to see you worry about this needlessly. The album will be your hands this time next year, and a tour will either be underway or starting soon.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on May 25, 2017, 12:02:27 PM
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....Missy Elliot? uh i think you mean Mary J. Blige....?

Haha. Tomato / Po-tah-to
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Blueyedboy on May 25, 2017, 07:33:01 PM
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The bottom line is, we are still going to get SOE, and we are still going to get I+E Part 2. Soon. The only surprise is, a 6-month stadium run in the meantime.

It must be nice to know that this is "the bottom line." Could you pass along official links with those dates for us?

 ;)

Do you have the retirement press release link? Because it is one or the other; either this is going as planned, or U2 are calling it a career after this tour. My scenario is rooted in quotes from the band and past behavior. Yours is rooted in your own disappointment and paranoia.

And I am not meaning to be a jerk; I genuinely hate to see you worry about this needlessly. The album will be your hands this time next year, and a tour will either be underway or starting soon.

Exile is our very own Chicken Licken when it comes to the possibility of an imminent SOE release   ;)
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on May 26, 2017, 09:27:14 AM
Exile, did seeing them live change or confirm any of your original post's ideas?
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on May 26, 2017, 01:03:24 PM
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Exile, did seeing them live change or confirm any of your original post's ideas?

I don't think so. In the broad scheme of things I think this JT Tour is a bad idea. Sure, I had a good time, but it cements people's view that U2 has become a heritage act. And I still feel like this tour was a convenient excuse to go back and rework their new album. I just wish they'd be a full time band again and get to work in the studio and give us these amazing songs they've been telling us about for all these months.

But U2 don't consult with me, so I'll just continue to adjust my expectations when it comes to new music.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on May 27, 2017, 08:56:13 AM
Maybe they realized the amazing songs they've been talking about aren't so amazing.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on May 27, 2017, 10:48:55 AM
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Maybe they realized the amazing songs they've been talking about aren't so amazing.

Well they dropped TLT last night in Dallas, so.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Jswallow on May 27, 2017, 01:06:35 PM
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Maybe they realized the amazing songs they've been talking about aren't so amazing.

Well they dropped TLT last night in Dallas, so.
That's cos it's not amazing its just ok,, Then again U2 songs grow on you the more you listen to them...I need a few more listens

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Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on May 27, 2017, 02:06:17 PM
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Maybe they realized the amazing songs they've been talking about aren't so amazing.

Well they dropped TLT last night in Dallas, so.
That's cos it's not amazing its just ok,,

But they played Elevation....
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Jswallow on May 27, 2017, 03:17:44 PM
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Maybe they realized the amazing songs they've been talking about aren't so amazing.

Well they dropped TLT last night in Dallas, so.
That's cos it's not amazing its just ok,,

But they played Elevation....
Well you were at the show & it's a crowd pleaser, Me I'd rather they play a new song with a bit of energy than The Little things....

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Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on May 27, 2017, 03:51:47 PM
what's so bizarre to me is they aren't playin any recent hits. i mean TWO from ATYCLB instead of BD and Vertigo? Vertigo is high energy with  call-and-response lyrics...i mean i get not playing Boots but they could at least rotate Vertigo with Miracle.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: shineinthesummernight on May 27, 2017, 08:36:48 PM
"I had a good time, but the tour is a bad idea."  I'm sorry, but that just sounds like overthinking what could be accepted and enjoyed at face value.  I try not to analyze things to death.  I'm not always successful, but I think in general it's a good stance to take.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: lightmyway92 on May 27, 2017, 08:44:20 PM
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"I had a good time, but the tour is a bad idea."  I'm sorry, but that just sounds like overthinking what could be accepted and enjoyed at face value.  I try not to analyze things to death.  I'm not always successful, but I think in general it's a good stance to take.
This is probably the post of the year...if not the decade!
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: JTNash on May 27, 2017, 10:32:34 PM
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start your own bands, show 'em how it's done.
👍
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: an tha on May 28, 2017, 05:14:42 AM
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"I had a good time, but the tour is a bad idea."  I'm sorry, but that just sounds like overthinking what could be accepted and enjoyed at face value.  I try not to analyze things to death.  I'm not always successful, but I think in general it's a good stance to take.

Without people like exile et al 'overthinking' and 'analysing things to death' there would be next to nothing to talk about on here aside from banal and vapid stuff where everybody agrees with each other.....

I find in general or at least sometimes (especially with art) it is a good stance to take to not just take things at face value but to dig a little deeper and i often gain new and interesting perspectives from reading the posts of people who have.

Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Kmama07 on May 28, 2017, 05:48:17 AM
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"I had a good time, but the tour is a bad idea."  I'm sorry, but that just sounds like overthinking what could be accepted and enjoyed at face value.  I try not to analyze things to death.  I'm not always successful, but I think in general it's a good stance to take.

Without people like exile et al 'overthinking' and 'analysing things to death' there would be next to nothing to talk about on here aside from banal and vapid stuff where everybody agrees with each other.....

I find in general or at least sometimes (especially with art) it is a good stance to take to not just take things at face value but to dig a little deeper and i often gain new and interesting perspectives from reading the posts of people who have.
Absolutely! We are all here because we admire this band. Without the exchange of ideas and differing opinions, this not only would be a very boring forum, but a boring world as well.

I guess my analogy would be:
U2 for years has talked about how much they love the idea of America. They don't necessarily love or understand everything about it and they don't have a problem voicing or questioning those things, yet it doesn't change their love of the idea.

 I feel the same way about U2.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: an tha on May 28, 2017, 06:02:08 AM
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"I had a good time, but the tour is a bad idea."  I'm sorry, but that just sounds like overthinking what could be accepted and enjoyed at face value.  I try not to analyze things to death.  I'm not always successful, but I think in general it's a good stance to take.

Without people like exile et al 'overthinking' and 'analysing things to death' there would be next to nothing to talk about on here aside from banal and vapid stuff where everybody agrees with each other.....

I find in general or at least sometimes (especially with art) it is a good stance to take to not just take things at face value but to dig a little deeper and i often gain new and interesting perspectives from reading the posts of people who have.
Absolutely! We are all here because we admire this band. Without the exchange of ideas and differing opinions, this not only would be a very boring forum, but a boring world as well.

I guess my analogy would be:
U2 for years has talked about how much they love the idea of America. They don't necessarily love or understand everything about it and they don't have a problem voicing or questioning those things, yet it doesn't change their love of the idea.

 I feel the same way about U2.

nicely articulated
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: JTNash on May 28, 2017, 09:01:42 AM
Sometime you have to sit back and enjoy the show as it's presented to you and stop trying to be the 5th band member.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on May 28, 2017, 09:32:56 AM
I doubt we're talking about anything the band hasn't talked or thought about themselves.

But if we are: 1.) scary, and 2.) maybe we should be the 5th band member.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on May 28, 2017, 11:09:36 AM
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"I had a good time, but the tour is a bad idea."  I'm sorry, but that just sounds like overthinking what could be accepted and enjoyed at face value.  I try not to analyze things to death.  I'm not always successful, but I think in general it's a good stance to take.

Well, I just don't go through life unthinkingly and uncritically. Like, I wish Lucas had never made the prequels, even though I had a good time the night I saw them. Art matters to me for its own sake, not simply for my own enjoyment of it.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on May 28, 2017, 11:13:29 AM
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"I had a good time, but the tour is a bad idea."  I'm sorry, but that just sounds like overthinking what could be accepted and enjoyed at face value.  I try not to analyze things to death.  I'm not always successful, but I think in general it's a good stance to take.

Without people like exile et al 'overthinking' and 'analysing things to death' there would be next to nothing to talk about on here aside from banal and vapid stuff where everybody agrees with each other.....

I find in general or at least sometimes (especially with art) it is a good stance to take to not just take things at face value but to dig a little deeper and i often gain new and interesting perspectives from reading the posts of people who have.

Nah, we should just turn this place into an echo chamber of agreement, mainly about how cute Adam looked in that kimono....
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: an tha on May 28, 2017, 11:35:08 AM
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"I had a good time, but the tour is a bad idea."  I'm sorry, but that just sounds like overthinking what could be accepted and enjoyed at face value.  I try not to analyze things to death.  I'm not always successful, but I think in general it's a good stance to take.

Without people like exile et al 'overthinking' and 'analysing things to death' there would be next to nothing to talk about on here aside from banal and vapid stuff where everybody agrees with each other.....

I find in general or at least sometimes (especially with art) it is a good stance to take to not just take things at face value but to dig a little deeper and i often gain new and interesting perspectives from reading the posts of people who have.

Nah, we should just turn this place into an echo chamber of agreement, mainly about how cute Adam looked in that kimono....

Yeah but if he wore a yukata instead he'd look even cuter!
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on May 28, 2017, 11:52:01 AM
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"I had a good time, but the tour is a bad idea."  I'm sorry, but that just sounds like overthinking what could be accepted and enjoyed at face value.  I try not to analyze things to death.  I'm not always successful, but I think in general it's a good stance to take.

Without people like exile et al 'overthinking' and 'analysing things to death' there would be next to nothing to talk about on here aside from banal and vapid stuff where everybody agrees with each other.....

I find in general or at least sometimes (especially with art) it is a good stance to take to not just take things at face value but to dig a little deeper and i often gain new and interesting perspectives from reading the posts of people who have.

Nah, we should just turn this place into an echo chamber of agreement, mainly about how cute Adam looked in that kimono....

Yeah but if he wore a yukata instead he'd look even cuter!

On a serious note, I wonder if any of the self-appointed Forum Police exercise their authority in the Band section? Like, when on the 153rd page of the Larry's Abs thread someone remarks that his left middle ab has never looked better than it did in the Electrical Storm video, is that person told to stop evaluating his abs and just accept the abs he is giving us since, after all, there will soon come a time when we won't be getting any new ab pics at all?
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: an tha on May 28, 2017, 12:14:51 PM
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"I had a good time, but the tour is a bad idea."  I'm sorry, but that just sounds like overthinking what could be accepted and enjoyed at face value.  I try not to analyze things to death.  I'm not always successful, but I think in general it's a good stance to take.

Without people like exile et al 'overthinking' and 'analysing things to death' there would be next to nothing to talk about on here aside from banal and vapid stuff where everybody agrees with each other.....

I find in general or at least sometimes (especially with art) it is a good stance to take to not just take things at face value but to dig a little deeper and i often gain new and interesting perspectives from reading the posts of people who have.

Nah, we should just turn this place into an echo chamber of agreement, mainly about how cute Adam looked in that kimono....

Yeah but if he wore a yukata instead he'd look even cuter!

On a serious note, I wonder if any of the self-appointed Forum Police exercise their authority in the Band section? Like, when on the 153rd page of the Larry's Abs thread someone remarks that his left middle ab has never looked better than it did in the Electrical Storm video, is that person told to stop evaluating his abs and just accept the abs he is giving us since, after all, there will soon come a time when we won't be getting any new ab pics at all?

Ha! I think the general 'rule of thumb' is you can analyse stuff over and over and over again as long as you aren't 'negative'.......until you are tagged as 'negative' you can discuss whatever you want as often as you want....once you are tagged though you lose the right to express your opinion and you can and will be told your opinion is not welcome/cared about or allowed as often as the self appointed want and they can do so without sanction.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: JTNash on May 28, 2017, 12:58:35 PM
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"I had a good time, but the tour is a bad idea."  I'm sorry, but that just sounds like overthinking what could be accepted and enjoyed at face value.  I try not to analyze things to death.  I'm not always successful, but I think in general it's a good stance to take.

Without people like exile et al 'overthinking' and 'analysing things to death' there would be next to nothing to talk about on here aside from banal and vapid stuff where everybody agrees with each other.....

I find in general or at least sometimes (especially with art) it is a good stance to take to not just take things at face value but to dig a little deeper and i often gain new and interesting perspectives from reading the posts of people who have.

Nah, we should just turn this place into an echo chamber of agreement, mainly about how cute Adam looked in that kimono....

Yeah but if he wore a yukata instead he'd look even cuter!

On a serious note, I wonder if any of the self-appointed Forum Police exercise their authority in the Band section? Like, when on the 153rd page of the Larry's Abs thread someone remarks that his left middle ab has never looked better than it did in the Electrical Storm video, is that person told to stop evaluating his abs and just accept the abs he is giving us since, after all, there will soon come a time when we won't be getting any new ab pics at all?

Ha! I think the general 'rule of thumb' is you can analyse stuff over and over and over again as long as you aren't 'negative'.......until you are tagged as 'negative' you can discuss whatever you want as often as you want....once you are tagged though you lose the right to express your opinion and you can and will be told your opinion is not welcome/cared about or allowed as often as the self appointed want and they can do so without sanction.
or you know some people are nit pickers
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: bonorules on May 28, 2017, 01:01:46 PM
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Sometime you have to sit back and enjoy the show as it's presented to you and stop trying to be the 5th band member.

So agree with this! Someone on another U2 forum gave a recap of his experience at a recent show. He had gotten so caught up in the negativity from others that he spent the entire show trying to find everything that was wrong or bad and therefore, left the show very disappointed. Once at home, he watched a bootleg of the show online and only then did he realize that the show was actually really good. His disappointment then became that although he was standing in the stadium during the entire show, he completely missed the show. He admits that his obsession with confirming everyone's negative comments along with finding additional negative aspects of his own caused him to spend his time picking apart the show, instead of actually listening to it and appreciating that a great band was performing every song from a great album and was performing those songs very well.

The "negative contingent" around here won't care, but the point of this is that this guy allowed his obsession with the negativity towards the band completely ruin what should have been a great night out to see a great show. Instead of having a happy memory of hearing the entire TJT album played live, his memory is of being upset that Bono didn't hit a note or Edge played piano instead of guitar for a few songs or many of the other things several people have chosen to be outraged over for this tour.

I know you all feel it makes you better fans and, apparently after reading some other comments in this thread, better people, but it really doesn't. Feeling the need to constantly pick apart everything in your life doesn't make you a better person. As JT says in the quote above, sometimes it is okay to just sit back and enjoy something for what it is. Everything doesn't have to have such in depth meaning and critiqued analysis. It really is okay to allow yourself to like something simply because you like it. Again, always being the person that has to pick everything apart to show why you feel it could be different or better doesn't make others view you as a better person.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: an tha on May 28, 2017, 01:07:56 PM
Constantly calling others negative is so much better isn't it.....

I'd wager heavily a quick scan of 'bonorules' post history would uncover the use of the word negative to describe others alongside phrases like 'negative contingent' a quite amazing amount of times....

It's ok though because 'bonorules' is 'right' and people with a different view are 'negative' and of course 'wrong'.....
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: JTNash on May 28, 2017, 01:22:59 PM
It's the imperfections of each live show that makes them unique.  Humans are not perfect and that's what sets us apart from robots.  Some of you seem like you'd enjoy robots programmed to your perfect show better.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: singnomore on May 28, 2017, 01:34:59 PM
Guys - bans, posts modified or deleted.

Back to business which until now was going ok
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: an tha on May 28, 2017, 01:35:39 PM
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It's the imperfections of each live show that makes them unique.  Humans are not perfect and that's what sets us apart from robots.  Some of you seem like you'd enjoy robots programmed to your perfect show better.

I don't think anybody is arguing for any sort of perceived perfection........the issue at hand is peoples right to share their thoughts about what they have seen/what they may like to see.

Sadly the sort of passive aggressive approach used by some has dragged the conversation down.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: lazyboy on May 28, 2017, 02:02:40 PM
This kind of discussion has been creeping up with each tour since Vertigo. I'm usually at the front end calling for change and less crowd pleasing.

However I'm kind of at peace with U2 approaching retirement. Everything points to the end of U2 as we know it. Even today I read an interview with Bono which ended with him mulling on how he used to feel weird when he was at home, that he almost didn't have a home. But now he loves being at home.

This tour is kind of as good as it gets, in that we get to hear a bunch of their best songs that they've rarely ever played live. Certainly most of us wouldn't have heard them much live, so I'll cherish that opportunity!

I loved SOI but I think we can agree it was missing a certain hunger or magic. They'll simply never get that back with the current mindset.

Perhaps when/if they ever get out of the massive straight jacket contracts with LiveNation and Universal we might see a more heartfelt, genuine, mature and comfortably old U2, happy to just search for true artistic flair rather than the current desperate for that biggest band in the world act.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: JTNash on May 28, 2017, 02:10:15 PM
I'm at peace with a U2 retirement too if that's what that want.  The only think that bothers me is the lack of substance in new music today.  They have no one to carry their torch.  Gone are the days of cool and clever song writing.  We are stuck with bro country, kiddy Pop and gangster rap.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: an tha on May 28, 2017, 02:19:20 PM
There is a massive amount of amazing new music out there...it just takes a little bit more finding now than it used to with the changing ways of the world.

Clever and fantastic stuff is out there in great amounts and great quality.

Last year for example was an incredible year....just don't expect it to be as easy to find as it used to be
/be shoved down your throat as much as it used to be
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Blueyedboy on May 28, 2017, 03:49:50 PM
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Sometime you have to sit back and enjoy the show as it's presented to you and stop trying to be the 5th band member.

So agree with this! Someone on another U2 forum gave a recap of his experience at a recent show. He had gotten so caught up in the negativity from others that he spent the entire show trying to find everything that was wrong or bad and therefore, left the show very disappointed. Once at home, he watched a bootleg of the show online and only then did he realize that the show was actually really good. His disappointment then became that although he was standing in the stadium during the entire show, he completely missed the show. He admits that his obsession with confirming everyone's negative comments along with finding additional negative aspects of his own caused him to spend his time picking apart the show, instead of actually listening to it and appreciating that a great band was performing every song from a great album and was performing those songs very well.

The "negative contingent" around here won't care, but the point of this is that this guy allowed his obsession with the negativity towards the band completely ruin what should have been a great night out to see a great show. Instead of having a happy memory of hearing the entire TJT album played live, his memory is of being upset that Bono didn't hit a note or Edge played piano instead of guitar for a few songs or many of the other things several people have chosen to be outraged over for this tour.

I know you all feel it makes you better fans and, apparently after reading some other comments in this thread, better people, but it really doesn't. Feeling the need to constantly pick apart everything in your life doesn't make you a better person. As JT says in the quote above, sometimes it is okay to just sit back and enjoy something for what it is. Everything doesn't have to have such in depth meaning and critiqued analysis. It really is okay to allow yourself to like something simply because you like it. Again, always being the person that has to pick everything apart to show why you feel it could be different or better doesn't make others view you as a better person.

I have no idea why someone would go to a show with that mind-set; itís not as if they are giving these tickets away.

I didnít like SOI so, for the first time since Love Town, I did not part with my hard earned cash to watch the band play songs that I had no interest in hearing.  Itís that simple.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Kmama07 on May 28, 2017, 04:22:46 PM
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Sometime you have to sit back and enjoy the show as it's presented to you and stop trying to be the 5th band member.

So agree with this! Someone on another U2 forum gave a recap of his experience at a recent show. He had gotten so caught up in the negativity from others that he spent the entire show trying to find everything that was wrong or bad and therefore, left the show very disappointed. Once at home, he watched a bootleg of the show online and only then did he realize that the show was actually really good. His disappointment then became that although he was standing in the stadium during the entire show, he completely missed the show. He admits that his obsession with confirming everyone's negative comments along with finding additional negative aspects of his own caused him to spend his time picking apart the show, instead of actually listening to it and appreciating that a great band was performing every song from a great album and was performing those songs very well.

The "negative contingent" around here won't care, but the point of this is that this guy allowed his obsession with the negativity towards the band completely ruin what should have been a great night out to see a great show. Instead of having a happy memory of hearing the entire TJT album played live, his memory is of being upset that Bono didn't hit a note or Edge played piano instead of guitar for a few songs or many of the other things several people have chosen to be outraged over for this tour.

I know you all feel it makes you better fans and, apparently after reading some other comments in this thread, better people, but it really doesn't. Feeling the need to constantly pick apart everything in your life doesn't make you a better person. As JT says in the quote above, sometimes it is okay to just sit back and enjoy something for what it is. Everything doesn't have to have such in depth meaning and critiqued analysis. It really is okay to allow yourself to like something simply because you like it. Again, always being the person that has to pick everything apart to show why you feel it could be different or better doesn't make others view you as a better person.

I have no idea why someone would go to a show with that mind-set; itís not as if they are giving these tickets away.

I didnít like SOI so, for the first time since Love Town, I did not part with my hard earned cash to watch the band play songs that I had no interest in hearing.  Itís that simple.
Fair enough!
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Kmama07 on May 28, 2017, 04:24:32 PM
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"I had a good time, but the tour is a bad idea."  I'm sorry, but that just sounds like overthinking what could be accepted and enjoyed at face value.  I try not to analyze things to death.  I'm not always successful, but I think in general it's a good stance to take.

Without people like exile et al 'overthinking' and 'analysing things to death' there would be next to nothing to talk about on here aside from banal and vapid stuff where everybody agrees with each other.....

I find in general or at least sometimes (especially with art) it is a good stance to take to not just take things at face value but to dig a little deeper and i often gain new and interesting perspectives from reading the posts of people who have.

Nah, we should just turn this place into an echo chamber of agreement, mainly about how cute Adam looked in that kimono....

Yeah but if he wore a yukata instead he'd look even cuter!

On a serious note, I wonder if any of the self-appointed Forum Police exercise their authority in the Band section? Like, when on the 153rd page of the Larry's Abs thread someone remarks that his left middle ab has never looked better than it did in the Electrical Storm video, is that person told to stop evaluating his abs and just accept the abs he is giving us since, after all, there will soon come a time when we won't be getting any new ab pics at all?
Haha! Good point (I admittedly have been in that section at some point, though...not quite as far as pg 153 though)
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: U2jojo on May 28, 2017, 07:00:28 PM
Without opposing viewpoints, the forum would look like:

Poster 1 : Rank the JT tour on a scale of 1 to 10

Poster 2 : I'll give it a 9, encores kinda sucked

Poster 1 : Only a  9 ??? Why the heck are you on a U2 forum, you're obviously not a real fan
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: WookieeWarrior10 on May 28, 2017, 07:09:30 PM
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Without opposing viewpoints, the forum would look like:

Poster 1 : Rank the JT tour on a scale of 1 to 10

Poster 2 : I'll give it a 9, encores kinda sucked

Poster 1 : Only a  9 ??? Why the heck are you on a U2 forum, you're obviously not a real fan
That about sums it up. This forum is overly fangirlish at times... it reminds me of the whole "negativity" debacle.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on May 28, 2017, 10:54:38 PM
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"I had a good time, but the tour is a bad idea."  I'm sorry, but that just sounds like overthinking what could be accepted and enjoyed at face value.  I try not to analyze things to death.  I'm not always successful, but I think in general it's a good stance to take.

Well, I just don't go through life unthinkingly and uncritically. Like, I wish Lucas had never made the prequels, even though I had a good time the night I saw them. Art matters to me for its own sake, not simply for my own enjoyment of it.

How could you have a good time watching the prequels?  This makes me suspicious of your usually astute critical analysis of U2, their music, and their career decisions.   8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on May 28, 2017, 11:08:23 PM
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"I had a good time, but the tour is a bad idea."  I'm sorry, but that just sounds like overthinking what could be accepted and enjoyed at face value.  I try not to analyze things to death.  I'm not always successful, but I think in general it's a good stance to take.

Well, I just don't go through life unthinkingly and uncritically. Like, I wish Lucas had never made the prequels, even though I had a good time the night I saw them. Art matters to me for its own sake, not simply for my own enjoyment of it.

How could you have a good time watching the prequels?  This makes me suspicious of your usually astute critical analysis of U2, their music, and their career decisions.   8) 8) 8)

like most of us he probably convinced himself he liked it. it was nearly 20 years ago and Darth Maul was pretty cool.....
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on May 28, 2017, 11:12:03 PM
One time I was sitting at a bar down the street looking out the window.  The sky was filled with clouds and was getting darker.  I had looked at the weather before I went out, which said it was going to rain after the storm system rolled in, and now it appeared to be doing just that.

I said, "it's going to rain" to the bar regular sitting next to me who I'd chatted with frequently before.

"Why do you have to be so negative?" they asked.

Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on May 28, 2017, 11:15:54 PM
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"I had a good time, but the tour is a bad idea."  I'm sorry, but that just sounds like overthinking what could be accepted and enjoyed at face value.  I try not to analyze things to death.  I'm not always successful, but I think in general it's a good stance to take.

Well, I just don't go through life unthinkingly and uncritically. Like, I wish Lucas had never made the prequels, even though I had a good time the night I saw them. Art matters to me for its own sake, not simply for my own enjoyment of it.

How could you have a good time watching the prequels?  This makes me suspicious of your usually astute critical analysis of U2, their music, and their career decisions.   8) 8) 8)

like most of us he probably convinced himself he liked it. it was nearly 20 years ago and Darth Maul was pretty cool.....

I remember trying to convince myself I wasn't having a BAD time watching those movies to justify falling prey to the hype and standing in line for several hours, and Darth Maul seemed like a poser compared to Boba Fett. 
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on May 28, 2017, 11:20:50 PM
ya but maul yknow....DOES SOMETHING.....and the Duel of the Fates IS the highlight of the trilogy. the fight and the song
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on May 28, 2017, 11:37:41 PM
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ya but maul yknow....DOES SOMETHING.....and the Duel of the Fates IS the highlight of the trilogy. the fight and the song

That's what I'm talking about...all that showboating!  All Boba Fett needed to do to be cool was appear on screen and stand there.  Plus, I believe Darth Maul is no more.  Boba Fett will reemerge someday (and nearly did recently, I read) with his own movie.

Anyway, you won't convince me, though my mind might change if I could see Topher Grace's 90 minute fan edit of the prequel trilogy...I'm of the age of people for whom Star Wars and Empire arrived at exactly the perfect time in their lives, thirteen years old.

I've heard from younger people that the prequels did the same for them and also from some who said the same thing about The Force Awakens.  God bless them/you all, but...ugh.

U2 used to give me that same Star Wars feeling.  I would never disparage a fan who said, for example, that Original Of The Species or Stand Up Comedy or I'll Go Crazy or Breathe or Cedartown Road or Elvis Ate America or Breathe changed their life, but I might share my views on why I think those songs aren't representative of U2's previous incarnations of that Star Wars feeling...

Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on May 28, 2017, 11:47:32 PM
i dont like the prequels..........i said i thought the Darth Maul fight was the best part. and their have been MANY edits similiar to Topher's that have been on youtube or fanedit.com

anyways JT is a fine tour but i want a real tour in the next year or 2.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: WookieeWarrior10 on May 29, 2017, 12:22:06 AM
I feel the same way about The Joshua Tree as I do Boba Fett-- leave the "best" things in the past.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: 73October on May 29, 2017, 07:04:54 AM
I'm feeling positive about the tour.  I wasn't a fan 30 years ago.  I also feel really fortunate that the band are calling by twice in the space of 2 years - this doesn't normally happen!
From what footage I have seen, I think I am in for a visual treat.  Although sonically, I think there will be some changes and improvements by the time it passes my way - which will be over the halfway mark of the tour.

U2 are a kind of cultural compass in my life and it's really good to be able to check my, and their, direction again.  I look forward to whatever is next (the album?!) now that The Edge has finally left the studio (reference: Jimmy Kimmel show).
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on May 29, 2017, 08:53:45 AM
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i dont like the prequels..........i said i thought the Darth Maul fight was the best part. and their have been MANY edits similiar to Topher's that have been on youtube or fanedit.com

anyways JT is a fine tour but i want a real tour in the next year or 2.

Right on.  Maybe I'll look one of those up online.  The prequels left such a bad taste in my mouth I never felt curious to revisit them...

But our Star Wars tangent raises an interesting thought: if a film series explores storylines from the past of its narrative, it's called a "prequel."

If a band explores storylines from the past of its narrative, it's called a "nostalgia act."

I guess the difference is that a prequel is still original material, but is it possible to think of The Joshua Tree tour as a..."prequel?"

Or would a true U2 prequel mean something like re-recording all their pre-Boy demos and songs as a brand new album (something I wish they would do, actually, but with few studio embellishments, just with the same set-up they initially recorded them).

Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on May 29, 2017, 12:41:02 PM
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I'm at peace with a U2 retirement too if that's what that want.  The only think that bothers me is the lack of substance in new music today.  They have no one to carry their torch.  Gone are the days of cool and clever song writing.  We are stuck with bro country, kiddy Pop and gangster rap.

I can't relate to this at all. There are so many great new bands out there, it's crazy. In fact, with the luxury of Spotify I could literally discover a new band that I love in like ten minutes if I wanted to (but I don't, because I am trying to keep up with all the great new music I have found last week).

Sure, there aren't any mega-bands of U2's stature anymore, and there may never be. But this whole discussion turns on whether size equals quality. I don't think it does. So I will be happy discovering brand new music, even if those bands only play clubs and theaters.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on May 29, 2017, 12:51:00 PM
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I've heard from younger people that the prequels did the same for them and also from some who said the same thing about The Force Awakens.  God bless them/you all, but...ugh.

That was kinda my point: When all is said and done, I will wish that the Star Wars prequels had never been a part of the canon, despite their having introduced a lot of new fans to the franchise.

So with U2. When the dust of their career has settled and their legacy is considered, would we rather they dilute their catalog by putting out bad material that is only known for its desperate attempt at relevance and popularity with tweens? The more subpar music they put out, the more their great material will look like an anomaly or aberration, ratio-wise.

I mean, who among us wants U2 to release 5 more albums consisting of various iterations of Crazy Tonight, The Best Thing about Me, and Yahweh? For my part, I would rather the band make music that they feel challenges their fans and themselves, which Crazy Tonight simply cannot.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: an tha on May 29, 2017, 12:58:20 PM
On the new music thing....i often wonder if some fans don't want to recognise greatness in other or new artists because it in some way is being 'unfaithful' to u2....i can imagine it to be the case albeit only in the most fanatical.

Although that said maybe it is more widespread than think - for example new music threads or often newer bands/artists threads in here for example often don't get much enthusiasm.

I wonder if as we as fans get older a lot of us  are maybe guilty of stoppinh being receptive to new music/new artists and or don't really spend time checking new stuff out or even worse have a closed mind to new stuff.


Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on May 29, 2017, 01:05:44 PM
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On the new music thing....i often wonder if some fans don't want to recognise greatness in other or new artists because it in some way is being 'unfaithful' to u2....i can imagine it to be the case albeit only in the most fanatical.

Kinda like insisting that U2 and Midnight Oil should never be uttered in the same sentence? Yep, you're onto something, mate....
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on May 29, 2017, 02:46:42 PM
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On the new music thing....i often wonder if some fans don't want to recognise greatness in other or new artists because it in some way is being 'unfaithful' to u2....i can imagine it to be the case albeit only in the most fanatical.

Kinda like insisting that U2 and Midnight Oil should never be uttered in the same sentence? Yep, you're onto something, mate....

what are your thoughts on radiohead redoing The Promise and releasing it as a new single? does that ruin the band for you?
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: an tha on May 29, 2017, 03:17:07 PM
Never heard of a radiohead song called 'The Promise' myself....I do know they have a song called 'I promise' which they have played live but has never been released in any kind of studio form ever until now.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on May 29, 2017, 03:18:13 PM
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On the new music thing....i often wonder if some fans don't want to recognise greatness in other or new artists because it in some way is being 'unfaithful' to u2....i can imagine it to be the case albeit only in the most fanatical.

Kinda like insisting that U2 and Midnight Oil should never be uttered in the same sentence? Yep, you're onto something, mate....

what are your thoughts on radiohead redoing The Promise and releasing it as a new single? does that ruin the band for you?

My understanding of "I Promise" is that it's a previously unreleased track from the OKC sessions, so I don't think it relates to anything I have been saying about U2. I mean, I love WUDM, even though in 1997 it was a previously unreleased track from the Zooropa sessions.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: trevgreg on May 29, 2017, 03:42:21 PM
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Right on.  Maybe I'll look one of those up online.  The prequels left such a bad taste in my mouth I never felt curious to revisit them...

But our Star Wars tangent raises an interesting thought: if a film series explores storylines from the past of its narrative, it's called a "prequel."

If a band explores storylines from the past of its narrative, it's called a "nostalgia act."

I guess the difference is that a prequel is still original material, but is it possible to think of The Joshua Tree tour as a..."prequel?"

Or would a true U2 prequel mean something like re-recording all their pre-Boy demos and songs as a brand new album (something I wish they would do, actually, but with few studio embellishments, just with the same set-up they initially recorded them).

Sort of off-topic, but if you go to a Star Wars message board (or any Sci-Fi one, probably, for that matter), it's the exact same discussions we have in these parts. The new stuff gets nitpicked or compared to the older stuff, the new stuff did this or that wrong and should've done this, etc. It's pretty funny, actually.

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That was kinda my point: When all is said and done, I will wish that the Star Wars prequels had never been a part of the canon, despite their having introduced a lot of new fans to the franchise.

So with U2. When the dust of their career has settled and their legacy is considered, would we rather they dilute their catalog by putting out bad material that is only known for its desperate attempt at relevance and popularity with tweens? The more subpar music they put out, the more their great material will look like an anomaly or aberration, ratio-wise.

I mean, who among us wants U2 to release 5 more albums consisting of various iterations of Crazy Tonight, The Best Thing about Me, and Yahweh? For my part, I would rather the band make music that they feel challenges their fans and themselves, which Crazy Tonight simply cannot.

I think if they wanted relevance with the tweens and teenagers, we would've seen the hip-hop collaborations and Larry using a simple drum machine stuff a long time ago. Writing a song that connects with people in general isn't quite the same thing, I think.

In terms of what connects and what doesn't, you ultimately need good songs in the end. Part of the problem is, and as these boards seem to prove, is that we're all over the place in terms of what is good and what we want to hear. I'm not crazy for Crazy Tonight or Yahweh myself, but there's probably other fans out there that beg to disagree. And that's fine. Just like I'm not one to think they have to exclusively write ambient music without obvious guitars for it to be considered anything good or "experimental", whatever that means anyway. On top of that, I highly doubt anything they can write is going to have universal acclaim in the Internet age. If WOWY was released today, I'm sure there'd be comments about it being "too pop", "too simple", "lacks a proper ending" or whatever it'd be.

I'm all for challenging stuff if it sounds okay (even though that's putting an awful amount of pressure on a guy who has already explored just about every sonic terrain with his guitar by now). But at the end of the day, all you gotta do is just write a good song. And there's people out there who think they're still doing that, even if we're not liking every single one.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on May 29, 2017, 04:01:33 PM
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On the new music thing....i often wonder if some fans don't want to recognise greatness in other or new artists because it in some way is being 'unfaithful' to u2....i can imagine it to be the case albeit only in the most fanatical.

Kinda like insisting that U2 and Midnight Oil should never be uttered in the same sentence? Yep, you're onto something, mate....

what are your thoughts on radiohead redoing The Promise and releasing it as a new single? does that ruin the band for you?

My understanding of "I Promise" is that it's a previously unreleased track from the OKC sessions, so I don't think it relates to anything I have been saying about U2. I mean, I love WUDM, even though in 1997 it was a previously unreleased track from the Zooropa sessions.

It's them dipping into the glory years for a single right? There have been high quality bootlegs of this song since 96. To me it's more in line with Sweetest Thing. Maybe the general population doesn't know it, but Rh fans have had the song forever.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: WookieeWarrior10 on May 29, 2017, 04:19:15 PM
I think it's very ignorant to claim that we are living in an age of bad music. We are better off now than any other generation of music listeners ever were... like Exile said, you can easily discover a new artist in ten minutes with any streaming service if you wanted to. There are thousands of bands out there waiting to be discovered.

If you can't find anything good to listen to, you are either living without the internet or not trying. Sure, anybody can look at today's Top 40 and think to themselves "Wow, there is some sh**ty music out there in 2017!", but that's only because the industry is dominated by the teenage demographic. Why were alternative rock and hip-hop at their most popular in the '90s? Look at what concerts teenagers were attending back then and you should be able to figure it out...

How come boy bands are ever successful when anybody with functioning ears can tell that their music is horrible? It's not as simple as flicking on the radio or checking out the Top 40 anymore. The only reason that you restrict yourself from hearing new music is your ignorance or pointless bias against it. Why did you and all of your friends enjoy the same songs and type kind of music in your childhood? Also, why did those same songs happen to be on the radio, too? You don't listen to anything new because a younger generation has taken on a new taste in music and it is much different than what folks your age listened to in the past, yet, despite this, you don't delve deeper than what sits there at eye-level.

I don't know if anything here makes sense... and while I certainly doubt that I'm bringing up any interesting points that haven't already been discussed in this thread, I felt the need to get this off of my chest regardless.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on May 29, 2017, 04:21:21 PM
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I think it's very ignorant to claim that we are living in an age of bad music. We are better off now than any other generation of music listeners ever were... like Exile said, you can easily discover a new artist in ten minutes with any streaming service if you wanted to. There are thousands of bands out there waiting to be discovered.

If you can't find anything good to listen to, you are either living without the internet or not trying. Sure, anybody can look at today's Top 40 and think to themselves "Wow, there is some sh**ty music out there in 2017!", but that's only because the industry is dominated by the teenage demographic. Why were alternative rock and hip-hop at their most popular in the '90s? Look at what concerts teenagers were attending back then and you should be able to figure it out...

How come boy bands are ever successful when anybody with functioning ears can tell that their music is horrible? It's not as simple as flicking on the radio or checking out the Top 40 anymore. The only reason that you restrict yourself from hearing new music is your ignorance or pointless bias against it. Why did you and all of your friends enjoy the same songs and type kind of music in your childhood? Also, why did those same songs happen to be on the radio, too? You don't listen to anything new because a younger generation has  taken on a new taste in music and it isn't much different than what you listened to in the past.

I don't know if anything here makes sense... and while I certainly doubt that I'm bringing up any interesting points that haven't already been discussed in this thread, I felt the need to get this off of my chest regardless.

that's your opinion though.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: WookieeWarrior10 on May 29, 2017, 04:22:03 PM
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I think it's very ignorant to claim that we are living in an age of bad music. We are better off now than any other generation of music listeners ever were... like Exile said, you can easily discover a new artist in ten minutes with any streaming service if you wanted to. There are thousands of bands out there waiting to be discovered.

If you can't find anything good to listen to, you are either living without the internet or not trying. Sure, anybody can look at today's Top 40 and think to themselves "Wow, there is some sh**ty music out there in 2017!", but that's only because the industry is dominated by the teenage demographic. Why were alternative rock and hip-hop at their most popular in the '90s? Look at what concerts teenagers were attending back then and you should be able to figure it out...

How come boy bands are ever successful when anybody with functioning ears can tell that their music is horrible? It's not as simple as flicking on the radio or checking out the Top 40 anymore. The only reason that you restrict yourself from hearing new music is your ignorance or pointless bias against it. Why did you and all of your friends enjoy the same songs and type kind of music in your childhood? Also, why did those same songs happen to be on the radio, too? You don't listen to anything new because a younger generation has  taken on a new taste in music and it isn't much different than what you listened to in the past.

I don't know if anything here makes sense... and while I certainly doubt that I'm bringing up any interesting points that haven't already been discussed in this thread, I felt the need to get this off of my chest regardless.

that's your opinion though.
Sorry, THRILLHO, I was speaking very broadly...
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on May 29, 2017, 04:27:33 PM
fair enough
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: an tha on May 29, 2017, 04:38:50 PM
Anyone got a studio version of I Promise by Radiohead?

Anyone?

Anyone?

Nope, me neither....not yet anyway.

Title: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: DoYouFeelLoved on May 29, 2017, 04:41:56 PM
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On the new music thing....i often wonder if some fans don't want to recognise greatness in other or new artists because it in some way is being 'unfaithful' to u2....i can imagine it to be the case albeit only in the most fanatical.

Although that said maybe it is more widespread than think - for example new music threads or often newer bands/artists threads in here for example often don't get much enthusiasm.

I wonder if as we as fans get older a lot of us  are maybe guilty of stoppinh being receptive to new music/new artists and or don't really spend time checking new stuff out or even worse have a closed mind to new stuff.
I see your point an tha, but I don't think it's exclusively a "nostalgia" mentality that's preventing some us from enjoying new music.
 
Speaking for myself, I am too having a hard time to find a contemporary artist/band I truly enjoy and support (and I'm still young!)... but it's not because I'm way too stuck with U2 or the past, I just can't seem to find anything I can relate to (the only exception might be Wolf Alice).

Most modern productions sound fake and polished to the point of nausea to me, hiding the "soul" of the artist just to aim at sonic perfection...

Other than that, contemporary rock bands seem to care more about being cool rather than making good meaningful music, but it's just my opinion of course...
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: an tha on May 29, 2017, 04:49:06 PM
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On the new music thing....i often wonder if some fans don't want to recognise greatness in other or new artists because it in some way is being 'unfaithful' to u2....i can imagine it to be the case albeit only in the most fanatical.

Although that said maybe it is more widespread than think - for example new music threads or often newer bands/artists threads in here for example often don't get much enthusiasm.

I wonder if as we as fans get older a lot of us  are maybe guilty of stoppinh being receptive to new music/new artists and or don't really spend time checking new stuff out or even worse have a closed mind to new stuff.
I see your point an tha, but I don't think it's exclusively a "nostalgia" mentality that's preventing some us from enjoying new music.
 
Speaking for myself, I am too having a hard time to find a modern artist/band I truly enjoy and support... but it's not because I'm way too stuck with U2 or the past, I just can't seem to find anything I can relate to (the only exception might be Wolf Alice).

Most modern productions sound fake and polished to the point of nausea to me, hiding the "soul" of the artist just to aim to sonic perfection...

Other than that, modern rock bands seem to care more about being cool rather than making good meaningful music, but it's just my opinion of course...

Hey it is a good debate and one that can be really interesting (well with the right people anyway!).....it is also of course multi faceted and can't just be summarised by one point/example or strand.

I genuinely do wonder though if there is a 'it was better in our day' mentallity that is a part of it all - which is of course understandable and has happened generation to generation and will almost certainly continue to.

Take out the most devoted fanatics who may more or less live solely for one band/artist at the exclusion of others more or less and there is a fascinating and deep conversation to be had.

By the way check out my thread in general music that links to some exciting sounding wolf alice news!
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on May 29, 2017, 04:53:47 PM
go back to ignoring my posts. my point is valid.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: an tha on May 29, 2017, 04:58:26 PM
it may be valid...as may be the counter point.

as far as telling me what to do goes - please refrain from that.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: riffraff on May 29, 2017, 04:59:20 PM
ruh roh
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: an tha on May 29, 2017, 05:00:38 PM
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ruh roh

resh raggy!
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: riffraff on May 29, 2017, 05:03:39 PM
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ruh roh

resh raggy!
I hear ya, brother!
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on May 29, 2017, 05:05:57 PM
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it may be valid...as may be the counter point.

as far as telling me what to do goes - please refrain from that.

ok how about this. please refrain from being so condescending to me. i'd appreciate you easing off me.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: an tha on May 29, 2017, 05:15:20 PM
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it may be valid...as may be the counter point.

as far as telling me what to do goes - please refrain from that.

ok how about this. please refrain from being so condescending to me. i'd appreciate you easing off me.

i have not spoken/engaged with you in months (and frankly have little desire to going forward given previous experiences engaging with you and this now on top) but your comments about 'I promise' pricked my interest.

Probably best for us both and people reading this (apologies to you all for having to read this exchange) if we leave it here based on this so far. Our styles and outlooks really don't compliment each other and make for good discourse.

Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Blueyedboy on May 29, 2017, 05:23:17 PM
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I think it's very ignorant to claim that we are living in an age of bad music. We are better off now than any other generation of music listeners ever were... like Exile said, you can easily discover a new artist in ten minutes with any streaming service if you wanted to. There are thousands of bands out there waiting to be discovered.

If you can't find anything good to listen to, you are either living without the internet or not trying. Sure, anybody can look at today's Top 40 and think to themselves "Wow, there is some sh**ty music out there in 2017!", but that's only because the industry is dominated by the teenage demographic. Why were alternative rock and hip-hop at their most popular in the '90s? Look at what concerts teenagers were attending back then and you should be able to figure it out...

How come boy bands are ever successful when anybody with functioning ears can tell that their music is horrible? It's not as simple as flicking on the radio or checking out the Top 40 anymore. The only reason that you restrict yourself from hearing new music is your ignorance or pointless bias against it. Why did you and all of your friends enjoy the same songs and type kind of music in your childhood? Also, why did those same songs happen to be on the radio, too? You don't listen to anything new because a younger generation has taken on a new taste in music and it is much different than what folks your age listened to in the past, yet, despite this, you don't delve deeper than what sits there at eye-level.

I don't know if anything here makes sense... and while I certainly doubt that I'm bringing up any interesting points that haven't already been discussed in this thread, I felt the need to get this off of my chest regardless.

Ha, well vented!

I agree, music is so freely available its almost impossible to not be exposed to new sounds. Being receptive to the music sometimes requires the listener to get past some sub conscious bias though.  Accepting that the more interesting material is not coming from our favourite artists anymore (whoever they may be) is part of that. 

As is the case with hating on U2, I think some people back themselves into a corner in their constant narrative of a particular dislike. To come back from that standpoint may be seen as contradictive and so the cycle continues, refusing to stroll outside their comfort zone in fear of being proven wrong.

Its almost as taboo as admitting on these pages that Coldplay are not so bad after all.  :)
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on May 29, 2017, 05:26:46 PM
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it may be valid...as may be the counter point.

as far as telling me what to do goes - please refrain from that.

ok how about this. please refrain from being so condescending to me. i'd appreciate you easing off me.

i have not spoken/engaged with you in months (and frankly have little desire to going forward given previous experiences engaging with you and this now on top) but your comments about 'I promise' pricked my interest.

Probably best for us both and people reading this (apologies to you all for having to read this exchange) if we leave it here based on this so far. Our styles and outlooks really don't compliment each other and make for good discourse.

exactly. not sure why you made that comment. but anyways this is the not-studio version i was referring to, if anyone reading this is interested in what i'm talking about/what this has to do with bands dipping into the past for a new single <Sweetest Thing 98, Fish of out Water remix of EBTTRT and now the new RHTM>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlWR8hCFg_o
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: WookieeWarrior10 on May 29, 2017, 05:30:52 PM
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I think it's very ignorant to claim that we are living in an age of bad music. We are better off now than any other generation of music listeners ever were... like Exile said, you can easily discover a new artist in ten minutes with any streaming service if you wanted to. There are thousands of bands out there waiting to be discovered.

If you can't find anything good to listen to, you are either living without the internet or not trying. Sure, anybody can look at today's Top 40 and think to themselves "Wow, there is some sh**ty music out there in 2017!", but that's only because the industry is dominated by the teenage demographic. Why were alternative rock and hip-hop at their most popular in the '90s? Look at what concerts teenagers were attending back then and you should be able to figure it out...

How come boy bands are ever successful when anybody with functioning ears can tell that their music is horrible? It's not as simple as flicking on the radio or checking out the Top 40 anymore. The only reason that you restrict yourself from hearing new music is your ignorance or pointless bias against it. Why did you and all of your friends enjoy the same songs and type kind of music in your childhood? Also, why did those same songs happen to be on the radio, too? You don't listen to anything new because a younger generation has taken on a new taste in music and it is much different than what folks your age listened to in the past, yet, despite this, you don't delve deeper than what sits there at eye-level.

I don't know if anything here makes sense... and while I certainly doubt that I'm bringing up any interesting points that haven't already been discussed in this thread, I felt the need to get this off of my chest regardless.

Ha, well vented!

I agree, music is so freely available its almost impossible to not be exposed to new sounds. Being receptive to the music sometimes requires the listener to get past some sub conscious bias though.  Accepting that the more interesting material is not coming from our favourite artists anymore (whoever they may be) is part of that. 

As is the case with hating on U2, I think some people back themselves into a corner in their constant narrative of a particular dislike. To come back from that standpoint may be seen as contradictive and so the cycle continues, refusing to stroll outside their comfort zone in fear of being proven wrong.

Its almost as taboo as admitting on these pages that Coldplay are not so bad after all.  :)
That's a very good point... this community's general acceptance of different musical styles was a big reason that I joined it over the other boards.

I mean, you'll get lynched for liking Coldplay over at the interference forum moreso than on here!
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on May 29, 2017, 05:33:46 PM
after seeing the concert i was underwhelmed. i wasn't a big fan of his talk-singing or the new RTSS and RHMT. i'm fine with it being a diversion for the band to "celebrate JT" and i'm glad i heard the 2nd half of JT in some form finally.

but it makes me want SOE and the continuation of i+e WAY more.

what i'm saying is i'm down the middle. i'm not crying over the nostalgia and i see the pros of them touring the album.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Blueyedboy on May 29, 2017, 05:49:10 PM
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after seeing the concert i was underwhelmed. i wasn't a big fan of his talk-singing or the new RTSS and RHMT. i'm fine with it being a diversion for the band to "celebrate JT" and i'm glad i heard the 2nd half of JT in some form finally.

but it makes me want SOE and the continuation of i+e WAY more.

what i'm saying is i'm down the middle. i'm not crying over the nostalgia and i see the pros of them touring the album.

It is what it is, TJT30 has not taken anything away from the bands journey or how it is perceived by fans and casuals any more than re-issuing The Sweetest Thing or One. Its there to be enjoyed and celebrated if the band put on a good show. If they don't then its fair game.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on May 29, 2017, 05:50:45 PM
see everyone loved the show i was at, but i was let wanting more. my wife def didnt like it cuz they didn't play COBL, Mag, EBTTRT, Desire. lol
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on May 29, 2017, 08:09:10 PM
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Sort of off-topic, but if you go to a Star Wars message board (or any Sci-Fi one, probably, for that matter), it's the exact same discussions we have in these parts. The new stuff gets nitpicked or compared to the older stuff, the new stuff did this or that wrong and should've done this, etc. It's pretty funny, actually.

Yeah, and the silver lining is that the Star Wars franchise got a wonderful reboot with TFA and R1. Old dogs can learn new tricks if bold moves are made, right?

Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on May 29, 2017, 08:14:17 PM
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On the new music thing....i often wonder if some fans don't want to recognise greatness in other or new artists because it in some way is being 'unfaithful' to u2....i can imagine it to be the case albeit only in the most fanatical.

Kinda like insisting that U2 and Midnight Oil should never be uttered in the same sentence? Yep, you're onto something, mate....

what are your thoughts on radiohead redoing The Promise and releasing it as a new single? does that ruin the band for you?

My understanding of "I Promise" is that it's a previously unreleased track from the OKC sessions, so I don't think it relates to anything I have been saying about U2. I mean, I love WUDM, even though in 1997 it was a previously unreleased track from the Zooropa sessions.

It's them dipping into the glory years for a single right? There have been high quality bootlegs of this song since 96. To me it's more in line with Sweetest Thing. Maybe the general population doesn't know it, but Rh fans have had the song forever.

I still think it's apples and oranges. TST was an 11 year-old B-side that U2 decided to re-record. But then, if Radiohead did a tour of OKC I would absolutely lament that development the way I have done the JT17 tour. I'd still go, though. And I'd defend them to outsiders like I do U2. But this is a safe place for us insiders to let our proverbial hair down and vent.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on May 29, 2017, 08:19:30 PM
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I don't know if anything here makes sense... and while I certainly doubt that I'm bringing up any interesting points that haven't already been discussed in this thread, I felt the need to get this off of my chest regardless.

I think it makes perfect sense. Anyone turning on Top-40 radio today and lamenting the absence of decent new music is like the guy in '85 turning on the radio and complaining that since Karma Chameleon is playing then the music of that day sucks.

Umm, turn the dial, bruh. Two stations over they're playing The Smiths and Psychedelic Furs. And The Unforgettable Fire.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on May 30, 2017, 08:34:11 AM
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I don't know if anything here makes sense... and while I certainly doubt that I'm bringing up any interesting points that haven't already been discussed in this thread, I felt the need to get this off of my chest regardless.

I think it makes perfect sense. Anyone turning on Top-40 radio today and lamenting the absence of decent new music is like the guy in '85 turning on the radio and complaining that since Karma Chameleon is playing then the music of that day sucks.

Umm, turn the dial, bruh. Two stations over they're playing The Smiths and Psychedelic Furs. And The Unforgettable Fire.

Actually, in 1985 we had it pretty good in Los Angeles with KROQ (and check out how much higher Midnight Oil charted than U2):
http://www.radiohitlist.com/KROQ/KROQ-1985.htm (http://www.radiohitlist.com/KROQ/KROQ-1985.htm)

The Top 40 WAS pretty ugly, though with some gems (I was happily passionate about U2 AND Madonna that year):

https://weeklytop40.wordpress.com/1985-all-charts/ (https://weeklytop40.wordpress.com/1985-all-charts/)

Karma Chameleon was so 1983, bruh:  8)
http://www.radiohitlist.com/KROQ/KROQ-1983.htm (http://www.radiohitlist.com/KROQ/KROQ-1983.htm)

But 1987 was U2's year (check out some of those b-sides charting):
http://www.radiohitlist.com/KROQ/KROQ-1987.htm (http://www.radiohitlist.com/KROQ/KROQ-1987.htm)

The 80s was a great time to be young, as far as music was concerned, at least in Los Angeles.  Not sure what the radio scene was elsewhere...  And way over to the left, we had a college radio station or two that played experimental and punk. 

Also, the 80s was when it felt like a coup for U2 to break into any chart or radio or MTV playlists...until 1987, when that would change forever.


Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on May 30, 2017, 12:47:29 PM
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The 80s was a great time to be young, as far as music was concerned, at least in Los Angeles.  Not sure what the radio scene was elsewhere...  And way over to the left, we had a college radio station or two that played experimental and punk. 

Also, the 80s was when it felt like a coup for U2 to break into any chart or radio or MTV playlists...until 1987, when that would change forever.

Yep, I grew up in OC and KROQ was where I first heard U2 (NYD in '83, I was 10). But as great as the music scene back then was (Echo and the Bunnymen, Siouxsie and the Banshees, The Alarm, REM, etc.), there's just as much good music now as there was then. I am seeing In the Valley Below in July for the third time, they're the best new band around as far as I'm concerned.

F**k the past, kiss the future.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: miami on May 30, 2017, 01:55:08 PM
I agree, there's so much great music around these days. There's so much of it in fact, that I feel I have to limit myself to a few new bands/artists per month, otherwise I'd end up down the endless rabbit hole of continuously and endlessly listening to new music until I'm numb.

There's more to life and music than u2. Apart from discovering loads of new music over the last few years, I'm also learning to appreciate some older music. Im really getting into REM these days and am currently immersing myself into their post-'automatic for the people' output. Up, monster and reveal are fantastic albums. some fantastic stuff in there.

I've recently discovered the greatness of Richard hawley and tame impala.

Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Saint1322 on May 30, 2017, 02:12:13 PM
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Sort of off-topic, but if you go to a Star Wars message board (or any Sci-Fi one, probably, for that matter), it's the exact same discussions we have in these parts. The new stuff gets nitpicked or compared to the older stuff, the new stuff did this or that wrong and should've done this, etc. It's pretty funny, actually.

Yeah, and the silver lining is that the Star Wars franchise got a wonderful reboot with TFA and R1. Old dogs can learn new tricks if bold moves are made, right?



As someone who stays pretty up-to-date on Star Wars and U2, it is pretty funny that you say this, because every day, it seems more and more fans are turning on The Force Awakens and worrying about The Last Jedi. Isn't that funny? Movie makes almost a billion dollars in the US alone, gets mostly rave reviews and 18 months later people are acting like they hated from the get-go, so much so that they are worried about the future. And now they are twisting Mark Hamill's words to back up their own beliefs and fears.

Kind of reminds me of Pop and PopMart. Maybe in 20 years these same people will be saying TFA was the best Star Wars film of all time! :)
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on May 30, 2017, 04:28:16 PM
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Sort of off-topic, but if you go to a Star Wars message board (or any Sci-Fi one, probably, for that matter), it's the exact same discussions we have in these parts. The new stuff gets nitpicked or compared to the older stuff, the new stuff did this or that wrong and should've done this, etc. It's pretty funny, actually.

Yeah, and the silver lining is that the Star Wars franchise got a wonderful reboot with TFA and R1. Old dogs can learn new tricks if bold moves are made, right?



As someone who stays pretty up-to-date on Star Wars and U2, it is pretty funny that you say this, because every day, it seems more and more fans are turning on The Force Awakens and worrying about The Last Jedi. Isn't that funny? Movie makes almost a billion dollars in the US alone, gets mostly rave reviews and 18 months later people are acting like they hated from the get-go, so much so that they are worried about the future. And now they are twisting Mark Hamill's words to back up their own beliefs and fears.

Kind of reminds me of Pop and PopMart. Maybe in 20 years these same people will be saying TFA was the best Star Wars film of all time! :)

The Phantom Menace = ATYCLB
Attack of the Clones = HTDAAB
Revenge of the Sith = NLOTH

Yet as much as I enjoyed SOI, TFA is a better Star Wars film that SOI is a U2 album.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: ShankAsu on May 30, 2017, 05:12:08 PM
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Sort of off-topic, but if you go to a Star Wars message board (or any Sci-Fi one, probably, for that matter), it's the exact same discussions we have in these parts. The new stuff gets nitpicked or compared to the older stuff, the new stuff did this or that wrong and should've done this, etc. It's pretty funny, actually.

Yeah, and the silver lining is that the Star Wars franchise got a wonderful reboot with TFA and R1. Old dogs can learn new tricks if bold moves are made, right?



As someone who stays pretty up-to-date on Star Wars and U2, it is pretty funny that you say this, because every day, it seems more and more fans are turning on The Force Awakens and worrying about The Last Jedi. Isn't that funny? Movie makes almost a billion dollars in the US alone, gets mostly rave reviews and 18 months later people are acting like they hated from the get-go, so much so that they are worried about the future. And now they are twisting Mark Hamill's words to back up their own beliefs and fears.

Kind of reminds me of Pop and PopMart. Maybe in 20 years these same people will be saying TFA was the best Star Wars film of all time! :)

The Phantom Menace = ATYCLB
Attack of the Clones = HTDAAB
Revenge of the Sith = NLOTH

Yet as much as I enjoyed SOI, TFA is a better Star Wars film that SOI is a U2 album.
ha, I like how you guys are comparing star wars films to u2 albums- deserving of its own thread really, but comparing any u2 album (other than No Line- maybe) to Phantom Menace is just wrong.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on May 30, 2017, 05:17:23 PM
TPM = ATYCLB <honestly not as bad an album as it's made out to be but def has cringe-worthy head scratching moments, like TPM>
AOTC = HTDAAB <the worst of the 3 with only a few high points, like AOTC with a good character like Dooku but sh**ting the bed moments like Yoda's fight/AMAAW, ABOY etc>
ROTS = NLOTH <though NLOTH is a salvageable album, ROTS is no where near a salvageable film>

it falls apart after that. SOI is way better than the previous 3 albums, as is TFA better than the prequels, but it would be like if SOI just mimicked the best parts of the 90's albums, or something.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on May 30, 2017, 05:21:15 PM
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TPM = ATYCLB <honestly not as bad an album as it's made out to be but def has cringe-worthy head scratching moments, like TPM>
AOTC = HTDAAB <the worst of the 3 with only a few high points, like AOTC with a good character like Dooku but sh**ting the bed moments like Yoda's fight/AMAAW, ABOY etc>
ROTS = NLOTH <though NLOTH is a salvageable album, ROTS is no where near a salvageable film>

it falls apart after that. SOI is way better than the previous 3 albums, as is TFA better than the prequels, but it would be like if SOI just mimicked the best parts of the 90's albums, or something.

As long as we can all agree that Adam = Lando, I think we can move on from this....
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on May 30, 2017, 05:53:51 PM
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TPM = ATYCLB <honestly not as bad an album as it's made out to be but def has cringe-worthy head scratching moments, like TPM>
AOTC = HTDAAB <the worst of the 3 with only a few high points, like AOTC with a good character like Dooku but sh**ting the bed moments like Yoda's fight/AMAAW, ABOY etc>
ROTS = NLOTH <though NLOTH is a salvageable album, ROTS is no where near a salvageable film>

it falls apart after that. SOI is way better than the previous 3 albums, as is TFA better than the prequels, but it would be like if SOI just mimicked the best parts of the 90's albums, or something.

As long as we can all agree that Adam = Lando, I think we can move on from this....

Adam = Chewbacca
Larry = Han Solo
Bono = Luke Skywalker
Edge = R2D2
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on May 30, 2017, 05:57:07 PM
Bono = Lando. Flip flopping and betraying us all.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: JTNash on May 30, 2017, 07:23:26 PM
Come on now  Bono is Obi Wan
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: WookieeWarrior10 on May 30, 2017, 09:13:24 PM
Bono is obviously Yoda. He's already got the height down.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: So Cruel on May 30, 2017, 09:15:56 PM
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Bono is obviously Yoda. He's already got the height down.

Winner
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on May 30, 2017, 09:19:37 PM
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Bono is obviously Yoda. He's already got the height down.

OMG LOOK AT THIS DORKS AVATAR!!! BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHH
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: So Cruel on May 30, 2017, 09:20:29 PM
Bono - Yoda
Larry - Han Solo
Edge - Luke
Adam - C3PO
Paul McGuinness - Obi Wan
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: JTNash on May 30, 2017, 09:20:34 PM
A Day Beatuiful it is
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on May 30, 2017, 09:21:29 PM
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Bono - Yoda
Larry - Han Solo
Edge - Luke
Adam - C3PO
Paul McGuinness - Obi Wan

no. larry doesnt speak or smile. he's gotta be one the bounty hunters.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: JTNash on May 30, 2017, 09:29:25 PM
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Bono - Yoda
Larry - Han Solo
Edge - Luke
Adam - C3PO
Paul McGuinness - Obi Wan

no. larry doesnt speak or smile. he's gotta be one the bounty hunters.
Boba Fett?
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on May 30, 2017, 09:47:21 PM
he wishes

Dengar!
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look its the same scowl larry gives every minute of ever performance
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on May 31, 2017, 10:30:42 AM
This chain is Out Of Covfefe.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: ShankAsu on May 31, 2017, 11:21:17 AM
Larry would be R2D2?
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on May 31, 2017, 11:57:57 AM
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Larry would be R2D2?

no. the stern resting b**** face is a must. r2 is to cute and happy.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on May 31, 2017, 12:22:45 PM
McGuiness is obviously Jabba the Hutt.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: WookieeWarrior10 on May 31, 2017, 12:33:38 PM
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McGuiness is obviously Jabba the Hutt.
Bingo.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: JTNash on May 31, 2017, 12:43:34 PM
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This chain is Out Of Covfefe.
lol
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: DulmoU2 on May 31, 2017, 08:12:57 PM
Edge - C3PO
Adam - Windu
Larry - Anakin
Bono -  Palpatine

oh, and I really really dont like Radiohead.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: shineinthesummernight on May 31, 2017, 09:27:13 PM
For those who like Radiohead, what is your fav Radiohead song.  I usually listen for a minute or two, find them boring and pretentious, and switch to another song on Pandora.  Just wondering what you would consider a signature tune.  I could be missing something....
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: So Cruel on May 31, 2017, 10:33:54 PM
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For those who like Radiohead, what is your fav Radiohead song.  I usually listen for a minute or two, find them boring and pretentious, and switch to another song on Pandora.  Just wondering what you would consider a signature tune.  I could be missing something....

Not a huge Radiohead fan but Let Down is a stellar song. One of the best of the 90's.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: WookieeWarrior10 on May 31, 2017, 10:36:16 PM
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For those who like Radiohead, what is your fav Radiohead song.  I usually listen for a minute or two, find them boring and pretentious, and switch to another song on Pandora.  Just wondering what you would consider a signature tune.  I could be missing something....
Airbag and Just are great alternative songs. Idioteque and The National Anthem are great experimental tunes that delve into electronica a little bit. Decks Dark and Ful Stop are amazing tracks from their newest record.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on May 31, 2017, 10:50:52 PM
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For those who like Radiohead, what is your fav Radiohead song.  I usually listen for a minute or two, find them boring and pretentious, and switch to another song on Pandora.  Just wondering what you would consider a signature tune.  I could be missing something....

i could give you a dozen but you wouldnt like them.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Neil Young, man! on June 01, 2017, 12:48:06 AM
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For those who like Radiohead, what is your fav Radiohead song.  I usually listen for a minute or two, find them boring and pretentious, and switch to another song on Pandora.  Just wondering what you would consider a signature tune.  I could be missing something....
Airbag and Just are great alternative songs. Idioteque and The National Anthem are great experimental tunes that delve into electronica a little bit. Decks Dark and Ful Stop are amazing tracks from their newest record.
They can be a bit over top. Takes a bit of time to get into, like many great bands. Exit Music, Street Spirit, Creep and Karma Police are examples of entry level Radiohead. All found here at a recent festival https://youtu.be/1Qs8cWPE5MA
New album is great, too.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: an tha on June 01, 2017, 01:26:44 AM
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For those who like Radiohead, what is your fav Radiohead song.  I usually listen for a minute or two, find them boring and pretentious, and switch to another song on Pandora.  Just wondering what you would consider a signature tune.  I could be missing something....

You are....try these - and an open mind...these aren't always what i would consider their best, but i have moderated the picks to potentially suit your conservative tastes more. Do let us know how you get on...

Lucky (I honestly think it is one of the greatest songs ever written....i can't think of a single u2 song that i consider better)

Electioneering

15 step

Idioteque

Street Spirit

The Tourist

Black Star

Exit Music

Optimisitic

Just

My Iron Lung

2+2=5



Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: il_capo on June 01, 2017, 04:10:59 AM
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For those who like Radiohead, what is your fav Radiohead song.  I usually listen for a minute or two, find them boring and pretentious, and switch to another song on Pandora.  Just wondering what you would consider a signature tune.  I could be missing something....

Their signature tune is probably one off OK Computer: Paranoid Android, Karma Police, or No Surprises, but I like Burn the Witch which has a brilliant accompany video based on The Wicker Man: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yI2oS2hoL0k
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: DK46 on June 01, 2017, 08:49:09 AM
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For those who like Radiohead, what is your fav Radiohead song.  I usually listen for a minute or two, find them boring and pretentious, and switch to another song on Pandora.  Just wondering what you would consider a signature tune.  I could be missing something....

I'm a big fan, but yeah, it may take some time, but when it clicks, it's quite a wonder. But if it doesn't, it doesn't and that's okay too.  If you have the time, I'd just listen to their discography chronologically, it shows their evolution and development.  Quite similar with U2, going from Boy to Pop.  Radiohead going from Pablo Honey to A Moon Shaped Pool is quite a journey, oh and I chose Pop as they're both their ninth albums respectively.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Saint1322 on June 01, 2017, 09:06:09 AM
I hate Radiohead the way many here seem to hate Coldplay.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: dwaltman on June 01, 2017, 09:11:21 AM
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For those who like Radiohead, what is your fav Radiohead song.  I usually listen for a minute or two, find them boring and pretentious, and switch to another song on Pandora.  Just wondering what you would consider a signature tune.  I could be missing something....

I'm a big fan, but yeah, it may take some time, but when it clicks, it's quite a wonder. But if it doesn't, it doesn't and that's okay too.  If you have the time, I'd just listen to their discography chronologically, it shows their evolution and development.  Quite similar with U2, going from Boy to Pop.  Radiohead going from Pablo Honey to A Moon Shaped Pool is quite a journey, oh and I chose Pop as they're both their ninth albums respectively.

My experience with Radiohead was initially similar to the first post.  I just didn't get it.  Ok Computer was on so many "classic" lists that I would give it yet another chance.  Well, one of those chances I was listing to Karma Police and something just hit me. I think it initially was the "for a minute there, I lost myself" lyrics.  But after that I came to really appreciate Ok Computer then dove more deeply into their catalog.  I love Hail to the Thief, although I don't think it is popular among RH fans.  Moon shaped pool is awesome too.  Music is funny that way....timing can be everything.  At whatever moment, you have to be open to receiving whatever the music/lyrics is delivering.  I can really appreciate their art form.  I still often have to be in a specific mood to spin some RH tracks but love it.  I've seen them twice in concert and that pretty much sealed the deal for me.  New RH releases are often challenging but I look forward to them as I love exploring their textures and the songs are usually of the "grower" variety. 
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Kmama07 on June 01, 2017, 09:33:00 AM
I saw them open for R.E.M. Years ago (early nineties). They were terrific live albeit pretty mellow. I need to be in the right mood to listen to an album front to back.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on June 01, 2017, 10:16:55 AM
I didn't like them until Amnesiac.  I think they pair well with U2's more experimental side a la Passengers.  They're definitely a Sith band, though.   8)

House Of Cards
Weird Fishes
There, There
Sit Down, Stand Up
Ful Stop
Bloom
Mr. Magpie
Little By Little
Give Up The Ghost
Packt Like Sardines
I Might Be Wrong
Kid A
National Anthem
Idioteque
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Johnny Feathers on June 01, 2017, 11:15:00 AM
Hasn't this gotten a tad off-topic.....?
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: dwaltman on June 01, 2017, 11:42:11 AM
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Hasn't this gotten a tad off-topic.....?
  Trying to bring it back....

So, Radiohead, in some opinions, creates the artistically innovative art that the OP desires.  Personally, I think Radiohead is good at what they do and U2 is good at what they do....and they could crossover at certain points.  Their goals are quite different.  I think Radiohead makes it a point to push boundaries a bit more and they don't really care who comes along for the ride.  U2 wants the big song that connects to as many people as possible as they would like to bring everyone along for the ride.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on June 01, 2017, 12:45:54 PM
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Hasn't this gotten a tad off-topic.....?
  Trying to bring it back....

So, Radiohead, in some opinions, creates the artistically innovative art that the OP desires.  Personally, I think Radiohead is good at what they do and U2 is good at what they do....and they could crossover at certain points.  Their goals are quite different.  I think Radiohead makes it a point to push boundaries a bit more and they don't really care who comes along for the ride.  U2 wants the big song that connects to as many people as possible as they would like to bring everyone along for the ride.

Agreed. The irony, however (irrespective of Radiohead), is that in U2's case this desperate effort for a hit simply doesn't work. It hasn't produced the results they're aiming for (it has been 13 years since Vertigo, and arguably all that song has going for it is popularity. It's not actually that good or interesting).

So from where I sit, either U2 should (1) just stop trying to produce a hit and just make music that they are proud of regardless of whether the masses latch onto it, or (2) do the above, hoping that they'll produce a hit accidentally.

But this desperate attempt to connect? It comes across as inauthentic and beneath them. Trust the music and the magic, I say.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: DK46 on June 01, 2017, 01:09:56 PM
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For those who like Radiohead, what is your fav Radiohead song.  I usually listen for a minute or two, find them boring and pretentious, and switch to another song on Pandora.  Just wondering what you would consider a signature tune.  I could be missing something....

I'm a big fan, but yeah, it may take some time, but when it clicks, it's quite a wonder. But if it doesn't, it doesn't and that's okay too.  If you have the time, I'd just listen to their discography chronologically, it shows their evolution and development.  Quite similar with U2, going from Boy to Pop.  Radiohead going from Pablo Honey to A Moon Shaped Pool is quite a journey, oh and I chose Pop as they're both their ninth albums respectively.

My experience with Radiohead was initially similar to the first post.  I just didn't get it.  Ok Computer was on so many "classic" lists that I would give it yet another chance.  Well, one of those chances I was listing to Karma Police and something just hit me. I think it initially was the "for a minute there, I lost myself" lyrics.  But after that I came to really appreciate Ok Computer then dove more deeply into their catalog.  I love Hail to the Thief, although I don't think it is popular among RH fans.  Moon shaped pool is awesome too.  Music is funny that way....timing can be everything.  At whatever moment, you have to be open to receiving whatever the music/lyrics is delivering.  I can really appreciate their art form.  I still often have to be in a specific mood to spin some RH tracks but love it.  I've seen them twice in concert and that pretty much sealed the deal for me.  New RH releases are often challenging but I look forward to them as I love exploring their textures and the songs are usually of the "grower" variety.

I absolutely adore Hail to the Thief and it's in the running for my favorite, but the list changes every so often.  If Bono wants to write or be in the mood for some "f**k off songs," he should take some cues from that album/era of Radiohead.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Saint1322 on June 01, 2017, 03:42:46 PM
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I saw them open for R.E.M. Years ago (early nineties). They were terrific live albeit pretty mellow. I need to be in the right mood to listen to an album front to back.

Did they get booed? I remember hearing they got a pretty rough reception on that tour.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on June 01, 2017, 04:17:13 PM
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I saw them open for R.E.M. Years ago (early nineties). They were terrific live albeit pretty mellow. I need to be in the right mood to listen to an album front to back.

Did they get booed? I remember hearing they got a pretty rough reception on that tour.

I think when Thom Yorke hears boos it makes his lazy eye twitch with twisted, sinister delight.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Kmama07 on June 01, 2017, 06:04:51 PM
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I saw them open for R.E.M. Years ago (early nineties). They were terrific live albeit pretty mellow. I need to be in the right mood to listen to an album front to back.

Did they get booed? I remember hearing they got a pretty rough reception on that tour.

I think when Thom Yorke hears boos it makes his lazy eye twitch with twisted, sinister delight.
Haha! Actually, from what I remember they had a good reception. Not many people were even in their seats so I'm guessing the majority that were in seats wanted to hear them.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Blueyedboy on June 02, 2017, 05:33:42 AM
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For those who like Radiohead, what is your fav Radiohead song.  I usually listen for a minute or two, find them boring and pretentious, and switch to another song on Pandora.  Just wondering what you would consider a signature tune.  I could be missing something....

Well Kid A it's the one album that challenges Achtung Baby as my all time favourite, the song that initially reeled me in was Idioteque but the album must be listened to as a whole to work.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on June 03, 2017, 10:11:01 AM
So.  Back to the original post discussion: the Lamar track doesn't seem to have diminished U2's reputation nor become a smash hit; the tour is chugging along and appears to be a success as far as ticket sales are concerned; they've dropped a new song in the midst of that tour and hinted at the next album; we've gotten a few new interviews that don't really confirm much of anything about the future directions the band might take; the Joshua Tree deluxe edition dropped and has a nice chunk of remixes, hinting at the band's openness to ongoing collaborations with past collaborators (Eno, Lanois, Jacknife Lee, etc.).

I'm liking the remixes, especially the ones by Daniel Lanois, but I could use a little new U2, just a single with a b-side or two would do, but unfortunately those don't really exist anymore.  It seems a distant time, but 15 years ago (wow, that IS a distant time), I remember heading home with the Electrical Storm CD single in hand and how that song became the soundtrack to the season.  Quick Google search reveals I forgot it was released ahead of the Best Of 1990-2000 collection.  I got the DVD edition in addition to the CD and had fun exploring that for a while.

Do we really know how things are going to play out with the band's future based on the above?  Their recent past trends since All That You Can't Leave Behind?  Are they set in their ways with no impulse towards the experimental left a la Passengers or soundtrack projects a la Million Dollar Hotel?  Looking into the future of the band when we first became fans, would we be pleased reading the first paragraph's inventory of 2017 U2's activities so far? 

Is what U2 is doing this year enough to satisfy you as a fan and enjoy their ride for now?  Or is there still a feeling of wanting more and that they're headed in the wrong direction?  Will only time tell?  And do you feel they will owe us two Best Ofs (2000-2010 & 2010-2020)?
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on June 03, 2017, 10:15:27 AM
the last album with physical b-sides was NLOTH. around the late 00s is when bands opted for "itunes bonus tracks" instead of b-sides.

the band is clearly not going to experiment with anything.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: dwaltman on June 03, 2017, 10:24:30 AM
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So.  Back to the original post discussion: the Lamar track doesn't seem to have diminished U2's reputation nor become a smash hit;

Is what U2 is doing this year enough to satisfy you as a fan and enjoy their ride for now?  Or is there still a feeling of wanting more and that they're headed in the wrong direction?  Will only time tell?  And do you feel they will owe us two Best Ofs (2000-2010 & 2010-2020)?

Two thoughts....
1. One of my HS students who is a big Kendrick Lamar fan, and never really knew who U2 were, loves XXX.  It is her favorite track on the record. 

2. I always will be wanting more from U2.  New music, new tours, new haircuts.  I'm pretty sure we'll get all 3 in the next 1 to 1 and 1/2 years.   After that....who knows.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on June 03, 2017, 12:13:37 PM
i personally forget that XXX even happened and i liked it well enough
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on June 03, 2017, 12:40:34 PM
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Is what U2 is doing this year enough to satisfy you as a fan and enjoy their ride for now?  Or is there still a feeling of wanting more and that they're headed in the wrong direction? 

Look, I have plenty of other things to think about, and other music to enjoy, than just U2. I don't lose any sleep over this stuff.

But yeah, I do think that the longer U2 continues to put out music like SFS and Crazy Tonight the more they are diluting their stellar catalog with sub-par pop garbage. But there're great songs being put out as well, like SLABT, Crystal Ballroom, and The Troubles. But if we learn anything from their tours, it's that the challenging stuff is largely ignored to make room for the weak stuff, the chaff is preferred over the wheat.

But whatever. I went to the Seattle show and had a fun time. I'm ok with not getting everything I want.  :)
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on June 03, 2017, 04:19:11 PM
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Is what U2 is doing this year enough to satisfy you as a fan and enjoy their ride for now?  Or is there still a feeling of wanting more and that they're headed in the wrong direction? 

Look, I have plenty of other things to think about, and other music to enjoy, than just U2. I don't lose any sleep over this stuff.

But yeah, I do think that the longer U2 continues to put out music like SFS and Crazy Tonight the more they are diluting their stellar catalog with sub-par pop garbage. But there're great songs being put out as well, like SLABT, Crystal Ballroom, and The Troubles. But if we learn anything from their tours, it's that the challenging stuff is largely ignored to make room for the weak stuff, the chaff is preferred over the wheat.

But whatever. I went to the Seattle show and had a fun time. I'm ok with not getting everything I want.  :)

I guess I should have specified I was asking the questions I wrote to everyone on here and not just the OP, but I'm pretty much in agreement with what you wrote all the same.  I just wish there was more new chaff they could leave out of their shows but which we'd still be able to enjoy listening to.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on June 07, 2017, 10:04:43 AM
Announcement of the new extended tour dates lends credence to the new album possibly being delayed...

Also, from what I read from Bono, he seemed to allude to making alterations to it that sounded more like fine tuning than reinvention, though I did also read that they re-recorded all the songs in studio playing them live for Steve Lillywhite. 

I haven't read the usual "playing the Joshua Tree has untapped an unexpected reservoir of songs that we're seeking to capture the feel of in studios while we're on the road."

Why not bring Eno and Lanois on board for some JT redux action?  I liked the Lanois remix vibes.

Anyway, now I've digested where they're at and watched a few tour shows online and listened to the JT remixes, I'm ready for some new stuff and experimentalism.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Saint1322 on June 07, 2017, 12:50:36 PM
The tour is only being extended by a month. If they announce a run of TJT shows in the Pacific Rim for 2018, then I will be worried.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on June 08, 2017, 10:29:39 AM
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The tour is only being extended by a month. If they announce a run of TJT shows in the Pacific Rim for 2018, then I will be worried.

I guess my main point is that I haven't read anywhere that they're hard at work retuning the album between shows as I think has been mentioned by the band on past tours. 

Last I read, they'd played all the songs live in the studio for Lillywhite to record and they need to whittle the album down from 15 to 12 songs.  Ahead of the tour, there was talk of needing to revise or add to the album in light of world events. 

Either the album is in the can and they've got a savvy marketing plan to use the tour to bridge to its release through the playing of Little Things and maybe more new tunes as the tour goes on, or...well, I guess we don't know much else.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Saint1322 on June 08, 2017, 03:40:10 PM
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The tour is only being extended by a month. If they announce a run of TJT shows in the Pacific Rim for 2018, then I will be worried.

I guess my main point is that I haven't read anywhere that they're hard at work retuning the album between shows as I think has been mentioned by the band on past tours. 

Last I read, they'd played all the songs live in the studio for Lillywhite to record and they need to whittle the album down from 15 to 12 songs.  Ahead of the tour, there was talk of needing to revise or add to the album in light of world events. 

Either the album is in the can and they've got a savvy marketing plan to use the tour to bridge to its release through the playing of Little Things and maybe more new tunes as the tour goes on, or...well, I guess we don't know much else.

In the past, I would have said they will get back to it as soon as they get off the road this fall and we see it in either late 2017 or very early 2018, but with today's technology, they could we working on it right now for all we know, especially if they are just tweaking and whittling down songs that are all-but finished.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: shineinthesummernight on June 08, 2017, 03:45:05 PM
Ha, Exile is mellowing with age like a fine wine.  Good for you, Exile!
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on June 08, 2017, 04:19:10 PM
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Ha, Exile is mellowing with age like a fine wine.  Good for you, Exile!

I also give off notes of cedar and vanilla.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: shineinthesummernight on June 08, 2017, 06:07:58 PM
:p
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: an tha on June 09, 2017, 07:58:27 AM
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:p

Have you visited those lists of radiohead songs that people created for you yet?

Be interesting to hear your thoughts...
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on June 09, 2017, 10:31:47 AM
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Hasn't this gotten a tad off-topic.....?
  Trying to bring it back....

So, Radiohead, in some opinions, creates the artistically innovative art that the OP desires.  Personally, I think Radiohead is good at what they do and U2 is good at what they do....and they could crossover at certain points.  Their goals are quite different.  I think Radiohead makes it a point to push boundaries a bit more and they don't really care who comes along for the ride.  U2 wants the big song that connects to as many people as possible as they would like to bring everyone along for the ride.

Agreed. The irony, however (irrespective of Radiohead), is that in U2's case this desperate effort for a hit simply doesn't work. It hasn't produced the results they're aiming for (it has been 13 years since Vertigo, and arguably all that song has going for it is popularity. It's not actually that good or interesting).

So from where I sit, either U2 should (1) just stop trying to produce a hit and just make music that they are proud of regardless of whether the masses latch onto it, or (2) do the above, hoping that they'll produce a hit accidentally.

But this desperate attempt to connect? It comes across as inauthentic and beneath them. Trust the music and the magic, I say.

Just scrolled through the chain and found this post I didn't notice earlier...

I don't know that the band is "desperate" as much as they might be trying to navigate the new media reality all of us are navigating, and clumsily.  The real problem might be their attachment to notions of grandiosity and how things used to work (radio, charts, record sales) vs. now (YouTube, Spotify, etc.). 

I'm 52.  I listen to radio rarely, usually just to wake me up in the morning.  The record stores in my neighborhood closed.  I discover new music by following links from one interesting band to another on YouTube, sometimes SoundCloud.  I'll occasionally buy a full album via mp3 on Amazon or iTunes (when there IS a full cohesive album these days, which is rare, Daughter's If You Leave was my last purchase in this regard and the newest Radiohead, though ultimately only half of it remained in my iTunes).  Other than that, I'll cherry pick tunes I like from YouTube or SoundCloud by converting them to mp3.  And I'm starting to discover music like it seems many younger people are, via playlists.  I've lost count of the times I hear a cool song in, for example, a coffee shop, ask the employee what it is, only to have them say, I don't know, it's on a playlist I found on Spotify.

I do buy full albums from my "core" favorite bands, Wire, Tuxedomoon, and of course U2, but my point is that if my music listening and gathering habits have changed so radically and I'm okay with that, why haven't they changed their thinking?  There is no music "center" anymore. 

As for notions of grandiosity, I don't think the band would ever settle for how some of their early contemporaries operate now career-wise, i.e. Simple Minds, who continue to make some decent music while playing their old hits in much smaller venues than when they were at the height of their powers.

U2 is fueled by grandiosity and it seems to me that they used to be fueled by being at the center of the zeitgeist, in some cases fueling it by being at the center themselves, a la ZOO TV.  I would love to see them transition into playing symphony halls and theaters or arenas max, but their attachment to the grand and continuing demand for tickets (some kind of signal of relevancy, I think) may not allow them to ever transition into a phase that sees them less than able to fill stadiums and making music for music's sake.

"I want it to be grand." Bono, Unforgettable Fire documentary.


 
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on June 09, 2017, 12:03:55 PM
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There is no music "center" anymore. 

U2 is fueled by grandiosity and it seems to me that they used to be fueled by being at the center of the zeitgeist

Ding ding ding!

I've scratched my head for a decade at Bono's statements about wanting to write that song that seeps into the consciousness of the culture, that tune that finds its way into the water supply, as it were. The song you hear when you step out of a cab, that's blasting out of shops as you walk down the street.

As admirable as that sentiment is, it's almost as antiquated as hoping your song gets chosen to be used in a commercial for video cassette recorders.

The fact is that the Internet has so democratized everything, and so decentralized the (rock) music world, that there simply is no one song that captures the culture's interest anymore. Everything is so diversified that I can compare my list of top five bands with someone's whose musical tastes are identical to my own, and not only will there be no overlap, we likely will never have even heard of the bands on the other's list.

So yeah, U2 may connect with masses of fans (which this current tour demonstrates), but only on the basis of the past, not the present. That's why people leave the show when The Little Things starts.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Ultrafly on June 09, 2017, 01:18:33 PM
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There is no music "center" anymore. 

U2 is fueled by grandiosity and it seems to me that they used to be fueled by being at the center of the zeitgeist

Ding ding ding!

I've scratched my head for a decade at Bono's statements about wanting to write that song that seeps into the consciousness of the culture, that tune that finds its way into the water supply, as it were. The song you hear when you step out of a cab, that's blasting out of shops as you walk down the street.


I think that last happened in 2005, with "Wake Up". It won't happen again.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Johnny Feathers on June 09, 2017, 03:29:28 PM
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There is no music "center" anymore. 

U2 is fueled by grandiosity and it seems to me that they used to be fueled by being at the center of the zeitgeist

Ding ding ding!

I've scratched my head for a decade at Bono's statements about wanting to write that song that seeps into the consciousness of the culture, that tune that finds its way into the water supply, as it were. The song you hear when you step out of a cab, that's blasting out of shops as you walk down the street.


I think that last happened in 2005, with "Wake Up". It won't happen again.

I don't know...I think it still happens, but now it's with folks like Adele. Rock music, as typified by a young, white, often male audience that obsesses over bands and albums, is much more a niche market.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: mariamontreal on June 09, 2017, 05:00:51 PM
Maybe it's because JT tour will rake in the money in case the album doesn't something to fall back on.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: shineinthesummernight on June 09, 2017, 08:32:35 PM
Greetings, An Tha--
Yes, I listened to Karma Police, which was pretty good.  Lucky was okay I guess.  I can't say I've become a fan of Radiohead, but I'll keep paying attention.
   Here's some of the music I liked from awhile back, much of it recommended by Bono.  (I used to listen to bands he liked and found that I enjoyed lots of them, including INXS, Simple Minds, Clannad, Sinead O'Connor, Midnight Oil, etc..  More recently, I listened to "Future Islands" and found the lead singer to be very expressive.  The music was interesting to me in smaller doses.)  Based upon the above, are there any other current-day groups which you might recommend?
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on June 09, 2017, 09:18:46 PM
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... are there any other current-day groups which you might recommend?

In the Valley Below, The Neighbourhood, and Ms. Mr. are a few of my own favs of the past couple years.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: an tha on June 10, 2017, 03:29:06 AM
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Greetings, An Tha--
Yes, I listened to Karma Police, which was pretty good.  Lucky was okay I guess.  I can't say I've become a fan of Radiohead, but I'll keep paying attention.
   Here's some of the music I liked from awhile back, much of it recommended by Bono.  (I used to listen to bands he liked and found that I enjoyed lots of them, including INXS, Simple Minds, Clannad, Sinead O'Connor, Midnight Oil, etc..  More recently, I listened to "Future Islands" and found the lead singer to be very expressive.  The music was interesting to me in smaller doses.)  Based upon the above, are there any other current-day groups which you might recommend?

Hello,

Glad you have found some stuff you like...based on the above there is probably little to nothing i would be able to suggest to you - however here are ten albums that i absolutely love from recent times, maybe there will be something here.

Hospice - The Antlers

Pyschopomp - Japanese Breakfast

Adore Life - Savages

Puberty 2 - Mitski

Synthia - The Jezabels

Hopelessness - Anohni

My Love is Cool - Wolf Alice

Front Row Seat to Earth - Weyes Blood

Strange Diary - Psychic Twin

Ash and Ice - The Kills




Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: xy on June 10, 2017, 05:37:53 AM
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So.  Back to the original post discussion: the Lamar track doesn't seem to have diminished U2's reputation nor become a smash hit; the tour is chugging along and appears to be a success as far as ticket sales are concerned; they've dropped a new song in the midst of that tour and hinted at the next album; we've gotten a few new interviews that don't really confirm much of anything about the future directions the band might take; the Joshua Tree deluxe edition dropped and has a nice chunk of remixes, hinting at the band's openness to ongoing collaborations with past collaborators (Eno, Lanois, Jacknife Lee, etc.).

I'm liking the remixes, especially the ones by Daniel Lanois, but I could use a little new U2, just a single with a b-side or two would do, but unfortunately those don't really exist anymore.  It seems a distant time, but 15 years ago (wow, that IS a distant time), I remember heading home with the Electrical Storm CD single in hand and how that song became the soundtrack to the season.  Quick Google search reveals I forgot it was released ahead of the Best Of 1990-2000 collection.  I got the DVD edition in addition to the CD and had fun exploring that for a while.

Do we really know how things are going to play out with the band's future based on the above?  Their recent past trends since All That You Can't Leave Behind?  Are they set in their ways with no impulse towards the experimental left a la Passengers or soundtrack projects a la Million Dollar Hotel?  Looking into the future of the band when we first became fans, would we be pleased reading the first paragraph's inventory of 2017 U2's activities so far? 

Is what U2 is doing this year enough to satisfy you as a fan and enjoy their ride for now?  Or is there still a feeling of wanting more and that they're headed in the wrong direction?  Will only time tell?  And do you feel they will owe us two Best Ofs (2000-2010 & 2010-2020)?

Don't care for the nostalgia tour*. Give me the JT remixes and live show at MSG on the JT30 reissue any day. And bring back I/E asap ! I want to see U2 in arenas before they call it quits. And hurry up with SOE already.

*the songs just don't pack as much power and Bono's voice keeps going down the drain. And the setlist - encore in particular - doesn't work. That said...I'm okay with waiting on SOE into late 2018 if it means the EU gets more than mere 12 shows on JT30.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on June 10, 2017, 12:07:33 PM
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Greetings, An Tha--
Yes, I listened to Karma Police, which was pretty good.  Lucky was okay I guess.  I can't say I've become a fan of Radiohead, but I'll keep paying attention.
   Here's some of the music I liked from awhile back, much of it recommended by Bono.  (I used to listen to bands he liked and found that I enjoyed lots of them, including INXS, Simple Minds, Clannad, Sinead O'Connor, Midnight Oil, etc..  More recently, I listened to "Future Islands" and found the lead singer to be very expressive.  The music was interesting to me in smaller doses.)  Based upon the above, are there any other current-day groups which you might recommend?

Hello,

Glad you have found some stuff you like...based on the above there is probably little to nothing i would be able to suggest to you - however here are ten albums that i absolutely love from recent times, maybe there will be something here.

Hospice - The Antlers

Pyschopomp - Japanese Breakfast

Adore Life - Savages

Puberty 2 - Mitski

Synthia - The Jezabels

Hopelessness - Anohni

My Love is Cool - Wolf Alice

Front Row Seat to Earth - Weyes Blood

Strange Diary - Psychic Twin

Ash and Ice - The Kills

Savages are awesome and give me a similar feeling to early U2 as far as their energy and drive are concerned.  The bassist's side project, Kite Base, is also worth listening to.  In fact, every member of the band is involved with side projects equally interesting as Savages.  They are an incredibly talented and inspiring group of women and I've been following them with more excitement and interest than I have U2...
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on June 12, 2017, 10:54:29 AM
It feels like the forum's run out of new U2 things to explore as far as their current phase is concerned.  Joshua Tree Tour, innovation vs. nostalgia, check; new song and ambiguity of state and release of new album, check; Joshua Tree Deluxe Edition and remixes, check. 

A pretty good year for U2 and fans overall, despite some fans' trepidations, that in the old days would have been enough to fill a year.  Now that we're trained to an every day, constantly changing news cycle, maybe we expect more than actual reality has to offer us, but I wish they'd surprise us with some new meat to chew on.  A single and a couple b-sides would be nice. 

I wonder what the band's plan is.  Feels like they planned all along to extend the tour if its initial stages were a success, and the hint of the new album at the end of the shows each night (if they're still doing that) suggests release is on the horizon but beyond that it's anyone's guess, and maybe there's no line on the horizon.

Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: shineinthesummernight on June 12, 2017, 07:20:26 PM
I listened to the Savages and enjoyed it.  She's very intense--a Sinead-like presence outdoing Sinead :0
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on June 12, 2017, 07:43:08 PM
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I listened to the Savages and enjoyed it.  She's very intense--a Sinead-like presence outdoing Sinead :0

Check out the video of their epic song Fu**ers...
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: an tha on June 13, 2017, 01:14:39 AM
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Greetings, An Tha--
Yes, I listened to Karma Police, which was pretty good.  Lucky was okay I guess.  I can't say I've become a fan of Radiohead, but I'll keep paying attention.
   Here's some of the music I liked from awhile back, much of it recommended by Bono.  (I used to listen to bands he liked and found that I enjoyed lots of them, including INXS, Simple Minds, Clannad, Sinead O'Connor, Midnight Oil, etc..  More recently, I listened to "Future Islands" and found the lead singer to be very expressive.  The music was interesting to me in smaller doses.)  Based upon the above, are there any other current-day groups which you might recommend?

Hello,

Glad you have found some stuff you like...based on the above there is probably little to nothing i would be able to suggest to you - however here are ten albums that i absolutely love from recent times, maybe there will be something here.

Hospice - The Antlers

Pyschopomp - Japanese Breakfast

Adore Life - Savages

Puberty 2 - Mitski

Synthia - The Jezabels

Hopelessness - Anohni

My Love is Cool - Wolf Alice

Front Row Seat to Earth - Weyes Blood

Strange Diary - Psychic Twin

Ash and Ice - The Kills

Savages are awesome and give me a similar feeling to early U2 as far as their energy and drive are concerned.  The bassist's side project, Kite Base, is also worth listening to.  In fact, every member of the band is involved with side projects equally interesting as Savages.  They are an incredibly talented and inspiring group of women and I've been following them with more excitement and interest than I have U2...

I think they are great....there really is so much great stuff out there - last couple of years have been especially strong.

Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: aurabender on June 14, 2017, 09:01:36 PM
AM I the only one really happy with what U2 is doing now? I think to label this JT trou asa "nostalgia" event is to miss the forest for the trees. This tour  was born out of the band being pi**ed and it is a tour that if far more relevant to today than any tour of new material would be. I don't think it is just coincendenc that a lot of these dates are  in deep red states. They know this music, despite its age, has a lot to say.

Meanwhile they seem to have SOE pretty much wrapped up with Edge pointing to having it out by year's end with an expanded arena tour production to follow. As for working with people like Kendrick Lamar, what if someone in the band likes Kendrick Lamar? Should they  NOT be allowed to work with him because he is new and a current critical darling?  Radiohead is great at what they do, but U2 can't function like Radiohead and never have. They would quit first. It is not in their DNA and never has been and I think it is unfair to ask them to take that route. Far from being on their knees, I think U2 may always be attempting something they know is not even possible anymore, yet they will still keep fighting for it. That is U2.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: JTNash on June 15, 2017, 06:42:38 AM
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AM I the only one really happy with what U2 is doing now? I think to label this JT trou asa "nostalgia" event is to miss the forest for the trees. This tour  was born out of the band being pi**ed and it is a tour that if far more relevant to today than any tour of new material would be. I don't think it is just coincendenc that a lot of these dates are  in deep red states. They know this music, despite its age, has a lot to say.

Meanwhile they seem to have SOE pretty much wrapped up with Edge pointing to having it out by year's end with an expanded arena tour production to follow. As for working with people like Kendrick Lamar, what if someone in the band likes Kendrick Lamar? Should they  NOT be allowed to work with him because he is new and a current critical darling?  Radiohead is great at what they do, but U2 can't function like Radiohead and never have. They would quit first. It is not in their DNA and never has been and I think it is unfair to ask them to take that route. Far from being on their knees, I think U2 may always be attempting something they know is not even possible anymore, yet they will still keep fighting for it. That is U2.
yup you got it! This fits with today's events but we debated this endlessly not to long ago here.  But I agree
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Neil Young, man! on June 15, 2017, 09:20:05 AM
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AM I the only one really happy with what U2 is doing now? I think to label this JT trou asa "nostalgia" event is to miss the forest for the trees. This tour  was born out of the band being pi**ed and it is a tour that if far more relevant to today than any tour of new material would be. I don't think it is just coincendenc that a lot of these dates are  in deep red states. They know this music, despite its age, has a lot to say.

Meanwhile they seem to have SOE pretty much wrapped up with Edge pointing to having it out by year's end with an expanded arena tour production to follow. As for working with people like Kendrick Lamar, what if someone in the band likes Kendrick Lamar? Should they  NOT be allowed to work with him because he is new and a current critical darling?  Radiohead is great at what they do, but U2 can't function like Radiohead and never have. They would quit first. It is not in their DNA and never has been and I think it is unfair to ask them to take that route. Far from being on their knees, I think U2 may always be attempting something they know is not even possible anymore, yet they will still keep fighting for it. That is U2.
yup you got it! This fits with today's events but we debated this endlessly not to long ago here.  But I agree
I for one don't believe the spin that they are touring TJT because it is relevant again. It's to make money and to stir up interest before releasing SoE. How finished SoE really is remains to be seen.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: trevgreg on June 15, 2017, 10:51:08 AM
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AM I the only one really happy with what U2 is doing now? I think to label this JT trou asa "nostalgia" event is to miss the forest for the trees. This tour  was born out of the band being pi**ed and it is a tour that if far more relevant to today than any tour of new material would be. I don't think it is just coincendenc that a lot of these dates are  in deep red states. They know this music, despite its age, has a lot to say.

Meanwhile they seem to have SOE pretty much wrapped up with Edge pointing to having it out by year's end with an expanded arena tour production to follow. As for working with people like Kendrick Lamar, what if someone in the band likes Kendrick Lamar? Should they  NOT be allowed to work with him because he is new and a current critical darling?  Radiohead is great at what they do, but U2 can't function like Radiohead and never have. They would quit first. It is not in their DNA and never has been and I think it is unfair to ask them to take that route. Far from being on their knees, I think U2 may always be attempting something they know is not even possible anymore, yet they will still keep fighting for it. That is U2.

I think there are a lot of fans that are happy enough. There's just always some people on message boards who argue that hipster street cred is always the way to go, and anything resembling a musical hook that some might find catchy is worse than murder.  ;)
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: lightmyway92 on June 15, 2017, 11:11:17 AM
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AM I the only one really happy with what U2 is doing now? I think to label this JT trou asa "nostalgia" event is to miss the forest for the trees. This tour  was born out of the band being pi**ed and it is a tour that if far more relevant to today than any tour of new material would be. I don't think it is just coincendenc that a lot of these dates are  in deep red states. They know this music, despite its age, has a lot to say.

Meanwhile they seem to have SOE pretty much wrapped up with Edge pointing to having it out by year's end with an expanded arena tour production to follow. As for working with people like Kendrick Lamar, what if someone in the band likes Kendrick Lamar? Should they  NOT be allowed to work with him because he is new and a current critical darling?  Radiohead is great at what they do, but U2 can't function like Radiohead and never have. They would quit first. It is not in their DNA and never has been and I think it is unfair to ask them to take that route. Far from being on their knees, I think U2 may always be attempting something they know is not even possible anymore, yet they will still keep fighting for it. That is U2.

I think there are a lot of fans that are happy enough. There's just always some people on message boards who argue that hipster street cred is always the way to go, and anything resembling a musical hook that some might find catchy is worse than murder.  ;)
I never would have guessed, though, that there would be so many in U2's fan-base who feel that way.  You would think that they would have given up on U2 years ago, or never gravitated toward them to begin with.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: trevgreg on June 15, 2017, 11:40:28 AM
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I never would have guessed, though, that there would be so many in U2's fan-base who feel that way.  You would think that they would have given up on U2 years ago, or never gravitated toward them to begin with.

Well, it's not really a U2-limited thing either though, imo. I've been to message boards for other bands and it's basically the same sort of debate... the newer songs are "safe" or sound like they're trying to play "to the kids." The set lists are always "the same" or not catering to whatever their specific tastes are. And so on. I guess that's part of the problem with being a fan of a band that's been around for awhile in the Internet age... almost everyone is going to have their own idea on what's good or what's not.

In terms of giving up on a band or not gravitating to one in the first place, I think of what Black Francis from the Pixies said in an interview last year, when it came to older fans responding to their newer albums and all.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/features/black-francis-on-pixies-new-lp-making-peace-with-kim-deal-w437113

I feel like a certain segment of your fan base has an intense emotional attachment to the older albums and little interest in anything new, regardless of how good it is.
I mean if you're that much of a fan of anything you're going to be closed off to change. I've experienced that with other artists that I like. If certain changes are afoot, I sort of go, "Oh, I can't listen to that anymore. It's over for me."

Does that frustrate you?
Not really. There's a lot of people in the world. I don't take it personally. It's sort of like everybody has to make their own decision about what they're gonna play out of their stereo.


It's what it is. If people absolutely hate what they're doing nowadays, maybe they're here because of that connection they made back in the day and how strong it was. Maybe not? But this band's been around long enough to warrant a lot of discussion about various times or things too.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on June 15, 2017, 11:51:54 AM
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AM I the only one really happy with what U2 is doing now? I think to label this JT trou asa "nostalgia" event is to miss the forest for the trees. This tour  was born out of the band being pi**ed and it is a tour that if far more relevant to today than any tour of new material would be. I don't think it is just coincendenc that a lot of these dates are  in deep red states. They know this music, despite its age, has a lot to say.

Meanwhile they seem to have SOE pretty much wrapped up with Edge pointing to having it out by year's end with an expanded arena tour production to follow. As for working with people like Kendrick Lamar, what if someone in the band likes Kendrick Lamar? Should they  NOT be allowed to work with him because he is new and a current critical darling?  Radiohead is great at what they do, but U2 can't function like Radiohead and never have. They would quit first. It is not in their DNA and never has been and I think it is unfair to ask them to take that route. Far from being on their knees, I think U2 may always be attempting something they know is not even possible anymore, yet they will still keep fighting for it. That is U2.

Touring a 30 year-old album is nostalgia by definition.

That said, I have also said that I attended the 2nd show of this tour and enjoyed it (more than those who were streaming out during The Little Things, surely [but that's what happens when you embark on tours like this]). I have also admitted that, after I heard the KL collab, I thought it was OK.

But none of this changes the feeling that U2 are creatively stuck, and have been past-focused since 1998 (somewhere in this thread I gave like 10 examples of this). I just wish they'd get out of their own heads and release new music that they think is good enough to stand behind, rather than being so driven by (their perception of) what the youth culture wants.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Vox on June 15, 2017, 12:51:03 PM
I just want to get more new U2 music, man.  U2 has released two albums since 2005.  It's the music that got me into this whole thing. 

I know I "should be glad U2 is still around," and all that.  I'd just like to hear more new tunes now and again.   
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on June 15, 2017, 01:00:14 PM
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I just want to get more new U2 music, man.  U2 has released two albums since 2005.  It's the music that got me into this whole thing. 

I know I "should be glad U2 is still around," and all that.  I'd just like to hear more new tunes now and again.   

Exactly. The frustration many feel about this JT tour is not taking place in a vacuum. It's due to our seeing from the very beginning that it wouldn't be just a few one-off shows, but would be extended, expanded, and ultimately cited as the reason the new album would be delayed.

Some of us have been around long enough to remember that SOI was delayed for months and months simply because the band had to write a (rather average) song for Nelson Mandela, for crying out loud.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on June 15, 2017, 01:10:34 PM
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AM I the only one really happy with what U2 is doing now? I think to label this JT trou asa "nostalgia" event is to miss the forest for the trees. This tour  was born out of the band being pi**ed and it is a tour that if far more relevant to today than any tour of new material would be. I don't think it is just coincendenc that a lot of these dates are  in deep red states. They know this music, despite its age, has a lot to say.

Meanwhile they seem to have SOE pretty much wrapped up with Edge pointing to having it out by year's end with an expanded arena tour production to follow. As for working with people like Kendrick Lamar, what if someone in the band likes Kendrick Lamar? Should they  NOT be allowed to work with him because he is new and a current critical darling?  Radiohead is great at what they do, but U2 can't function like Radiohead and never have. They would quit first. It is not in their DNA and never has been and I think it is unfair to ask them to take that route. Far from being on their knees, I think U2 may always be attempting something they know is not even possible anymore, yet they will still keep fighting for it. That is U2.
yup you got it! This fits with today's events but we debated this endlessly not to long ago here.  But I agree
I for one don't believe the spin that they are touring TJT because it is relevant again. It's to make money and to stir up interest before releasing SoE. How finished SoE really is remains to be seen.

yea this is all how i feel too.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Johnny Feathers on June 15, 2017, 01:26:01 PM
I do get the frustration some here feel about the ever-slowing pace of new music coming from the band.  But I guess I also am not terribly surprised or even disappointed by it--there aren't many bands of their vintage capable (or willing) to put out stuff like they did in their heyday, and the ones that still do are hardly putting out their best work now.  Depeche Mode are on a consistent schedule, but their last few albums haven't been great--some might wish they would just do a nostalgia tour themselves.  (Maybe even me.)
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: WookieeWarrior10 on June 15, 2017, 03:18:59 PM
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AM I the only one really happy with what U2 is doing now? I think to label this JT trou asa "nostalgia" event is to miss the forest for the trees. This tour  was born out of the band being pi**ed and it is a tour that if far more relevant to today than any tour of new material would be. I don't think it is just coincendenc that a lot of these dates are  in deep red states. They know this music, despite its age, has a lot to say.

Meanwhile they seem to have SOE pretty much wrapped up with Edge pointing to having it out by year's end with an expanded arena tour production to follow. As for working with people like Kendrick Lamar, what if someone in the band likes Kendrick Lamar? Should they  NOT be allowed to work with him because he is new and a current critical darling?  Radiohead is great at what they do, but U2 can't function like Radiohead and never have. They would quit first. It is not in their DNA and never has been and I think it is unfair to ask them to take that route. Far from being on their knees, I think U2 may always be attempting something they know is not even possible anymore, yet they will still keep fighting for it. That is U2.
yup you got it! This fits with today's events but we debated this endlessly not to long ago here.  But I agree
I for one don't believe the spin that they are touring TJT because it is relevant again. It's to make money and to stir up interest before releasing SoE. How finished SoE really is remains to be seen.
I also feel like the band is using the tour as an excuse to delay the album.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: macky0104 on June 15, 2017, 08:08:29 PM
I don't think they are using this tour to delay the album as I think it's finished; I actually think it's been finished for a while now. The reason for this tour is to make money/meet contract obligations with Live Nation/raise their profile beyond their fan base. The whole relevance argument to me is a non-starter.

On the subject of nostalgia tours and the lack of innovation in music, I would recommend reading Retromania: Pop Culture's Addiction to its Own Past by Simon Reynolds (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9854239-retromania). Interesting read about the state of the music industry at the moment.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: JTNash on June 15, 2017, 08:48:36 PM
Every show I have been to people who are casual fans or not even fans blown away by how awesome U2 are live.  I think that's so cool, to see people get won over by the band.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on June 15, 2017, 09:21:05 PM
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I don't think they are using this tour to delay the album as I think it's finished; I actually think it's been finished for a while now.

so what is the reason for not releasing a proper single yet? some bands <Noel Gallagher comes to mind> releasing singles MONTHS in advance.  think Coldplay even had 3 singles out before Mylo Xyloto came out.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: WookieeWarrior10 on June 15, 2017, 09:30:20 PM
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I don't think they are using this tour to delay the album as I think it's finished; I actually think it's been finished for a while now. The reason for this tour is to make money/meet contract obligations with Live Nation/raise their profile beyond their fan base. The whole relevance argument to me is a non-starter.

On the subject of nostalgia tours and the lack of innovation in music, I would recommend reading Retromania: Pop Culture's Addiction to its Own Past by Simon Reynolds (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9854239-retromania). Interesting read about the state of the music industry at the moment.
I don't think it is the reason, but I do believe that the tour is conveniently timed to hold off on the album's release.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Blueyedboy on June 15, 2017, 09:52:34 PM
TJT Tour 2017 is simply the nuclear version of releasing The Sweetest Thing in 1998.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on June 15, 2017, 09:53:45 PM
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TJT Tour 2017 is simply the nuclear version of releasing The Sweetest Thing in 1998.

yea but at least that was a "new" song that Johnny Q. Public latched onto.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Blueyedboy on June 15, 2017, 10:00:05 PM
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TJT Tour 2017 is simply the nuclear version of releasing The Sweetest Thing in 1998.

yea but at least that was a "new" song that Johnny Q. Public latched onto.

It was hardly an "unknown" though, it was a safe release, appealing to the fans that didn't come along for the ride in the late 90's to get back on board. They've been reluctant to pi*s these fans off since.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on June 15, 2017, 10:01:47 PM
 i get that but i really think it's overblown how some people think the song was ON the JT. i mean it was a b-side and outside of "real fans" whos gonna get that? idk i just think the b-side being well known argument is exaggerated.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Blueyedboy on June 15, 2017, 11:46:51 PM
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i get that but i really think it's overblown how some people think the song was ON the JT. i mean it was a b-side and outside of "real fans" whos gonna get that? idk i just think the b-side being well known argument is exaggerated.

I'm not disagreeing, but The Sweetest Thing being released served a greater purpose than to just promote the 80's best of. My point is that TJT30 is not the first time U2 have broke glass and released 1987 in the hope that it gets people back on board.

My tongue in cheek gripe about TST is that it's success resulted in a more stripped back and safe sound coming from the band. In reality, I think the envelope pushing U2 retired sometime during Popmart.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on June 16, 2017, 12:11:57 AM
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i get that but i really think it's overblown how some people think the song was ON the JT. i mean it was a b-side and outside of "real fans" whos gonna get that? idk i just think the b-side being well known argument is exaggerated.

I'm not disagreeing, but The Sweetest Thing being released served a greater purpose than to just promote the 80's best of. My point is that TJT30 is not the first time U2 have broke glass and released 1987 in the hope that it gets people back on board.

My tongue in cheek gripe about TST is that it's success resulted in a more stripped back and safe sound coming from the band. In reality, I think the envelope pushing U2 retired sometime during Popmart.

yea that died off after Popmart touring the USA. im sure they were eager as hell to run from that tour the second it ended. at least the north american leg
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Johnny Feathers on June 16, 2017, 06:59:30 AM
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i get that but i really think it's overblown how some people think the song was ON the JT. i mean it was a b-side and outside of "real fans" whos gonna get that? idk i just think the b-side being well known argument is exaggerated.

I agree with this.  Sweetest Thing may have signaled a new direction for the band after Pop, but I think it just happened to be the b-side they figured had the most commercial potential.  The album it was associated with was pretty insignificant, other than wanting something from the 80's to fit with that compilation.  I just think it was the best track they had "in the vaults", at least by their estimation.  Put it this way: they weren't going to redo Race Against Time or Bass Trap.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: KaLaM on June 16, 2017, 07:56:04 AM
Hi folks!

Many people have forgotten how great this band is, especially in a live performance setting.  If there is anything to take from the countless positive concert reviews out there in the media, it's that this tour is reminding them.

KaL
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on June 16, 2017, 09:17:41 AM
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AM I the only one really happy with what U2 is doing now? I think to label this JT trou asa "nostalgia" event is to miss the forest for the trees. This tour  was born out of the band being pi**ed and it is a tour that if far more relevant to today than any tour of new material would be. I don't think it is just coincendenc that a lot of these dates are  in deep red states. They know this music, despite its age, has a lot to say.

Meanwhile they seem to have SOE pretty much wrapped up with Edge pointing to having it out by year's end with an expanded arena tour production to follow. As for working with people like Kendrick Lamar, what if someone in the band likes Kendrick Lamar? Should they  NOT be allowed to work with him because he is new and a current critical darling?  Radiohead is great at what they do, but U2 can't function like Radiohead and never have. They would quit first. It is not in their DNA and never has been and I think it is unfair to ask them to take that route. Far from being on their knees, I think U2 may always be attempting something they know is not even possible anymore, yet they will still keep fighting for it. That is U2.

Touring a 30 year-old album is nostalgia by definition.

That said, I have also said that I attended the 2nd show of this tour and enjoyed it (more than those who were streaming out during The Little Things, surely [but that's what happens when you embark on tours like this]). I have also admitted that, after I heard the KL collab, I thought it was OK.

But none of this changes the feeling that U2 are creatively stuck, and have been past-focused since 1998 (somewhere in this thread I gave like 10 examples of this). I just wish they'd get out of their own heads and release new music that they think is good enough to stand behind, rather than being so driven by (their perception of) what the youth culture wants.

I accidentally clicked on the new album rumors section this morning and found this quote from Ryan Tedder:

"As for their new album, Songs of Experience, Iíve already been working with them for a year. Weíre roping in some really good remixes that are going to kick an entirely new door wide open for U2 fans. The world right now is listening to such different music that you canít expect a 20-year-old to gravitate to a U2 record if itís not put in the context of what they listen to today."

Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: lightmyway92 on June 16, 2017, 11:19:41 AM
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i get that but i really think it's overblown how some people think the song was ON the JT. i mean it was a b-side and outside of "real fans" whos gonna get that? idk i just think the b-side being well known argument is exaggerated.

I agree with this.  Sweetest Thing may have signaled a new direction for the band after Pop, but I think it just happened to be the b-side they figured had the most commercial potential.  The album it was associated with was pretty insignificant, other than wanting something from the 80's to fit with that compilation.  I just think it was the best track they had "in the vaults", at least by their estimation.  Put it this way: they weren't going to redo Race Against Time or Bass Trap.
At the time I remember being really surprised that "Sweetest Thing" became a hit.  It's never a favorite of mine (a little too poppy for my tastes), but it was great to see U2 have a hit again after the songs from Pop never really took off in popularity.  I wonder if U2 themselves were surprised that it was a hit.  I would have to look that up.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: lightmyway92 on June 16, 2017, 11:24:43 AM
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I don't think they are using this tour to delay the album as I think it's finished; I actually think it's been finished for a while now. The reason for this tour is to make money/meet contract obligations with Live Nation/raise their profile beyond their fan base. The whole relevance argument to me is a non-starter.

On the subject of nostalgia tours and the lack of innovation in music, I would recommend reading Retromania: Pop Culture's Addiction to its Own Past by Simon Reynolds (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9854239-retromania). Interesting read about the state of the music industry at the moment.
I don't think it is the reason, but I do believe that the tour is conveniently timed to hold off on the album's release.
And to generate excitement for the new album. 
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: WookieeWarrior10 on June 16, 2017, 11:29:16 AM
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I don't think they are using this tour to delay the album as I think it's finished; I actually think it's been finished for a while now. The reason for this tour is to make money/meet contract obligations with Live Nation/raise their profile beyond their fan base. The whole relevance argument to me is a non-starter.

On the subject of nostalgia tours and the lack of innovation in music, I would recommend reading Retromania: Pop Culture's Addiction to its Own Past by Simon Reynolds (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9854239-retromania). Interesting read about the state of the music industry at the moment.
I don't think it is the reason, but I do believe that the tour is conveniently timed to hold off on the album's release.
And to generate excitement for the new album.
Which is what makes this tour's timing very convenient... U2 have a bit longer to finish the album, and the tour is supposed to hold us over until it is finally released.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on June 16, 2017, 11:56:55 AM
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Hi folks!

Many people have forgotten how great this band is, especially in a live performance setting.  If there is anything to take from the countless positive concert reviews out there in the media, it's that this tour is reminding them.

KaL

i don't agree with this. 360 was the highest grossing tour of ALL TIME and who the hell owned NLOTH? the fans. that's it. U2 is a juggernaut in concert and that's what brought the people out.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Johnny Feathers on June 16, 2017, 12:25:44 PM
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i get that but i really think it's overblown how some people think the song was ON the JT. i mean it was a b-side and outside of "real fans" whos gonna get that? idk i just think the b-side being well known argument is exaggerated.

I agree with this.  Sweetest Thing may have signaled a new direction for the band after Pop, but I think it just happened to be the b-side they figured had the most commercial potential.  The album it was associated with was pretty insignificant, other than wanting something from the 80's to fit with that compilation.  I just think it was the best track they had "in the vaults", at least by their estimation.  Put it this way: they weren't going to redo Race Against Time or Bass Trap.
At the time I remember being really surprised that "Sweetest Thing" became a hit.  It's never a favorite of mine (a little too poppy for my tastes), but it was great to see U2 have a hit again after the songs from Pop never really took off in popularity.  I wonder if U2 themselves were surprised that it was a hit.  I would have to look that up.

I doubt they were all that surprised.  IIRC, it was thought of highly enough to JUST miss out on being put on TJT.  (Though it seems like it wouldn't really fit to me.)  I even remember reading some effusive review of the song in the book U2: Three Chords and the Truth (which was, I believe, a compilation of articles from Hot Press produced at the end of the 80's).  I think the band always had viewed the song highly, which likely made it a no-brainer when it came to finding an old track to rework for the 1980-1990 set.

Even more, I wonder if the song really held any significance to them in terms of "this is the direction we want to go now", or if it was more coincidental that it seemed to predict the direction they'd take with ATYCLB.  I think it's possible that there was no intention at the time other than using the most commercially-viable b-side.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Johnny Feathers on June 16, 2017, 12:28:47 PM
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Hi folks!

Many people have forgotten how great this band is, especially in a live performance setting.  If there is anything to take from the countless positive concert reviews out there in the media, it's that this tour is reminding them.

KaL

i don't agree with this. 360 was the highest grossing tour of ALL TIME and who the hell owned NLOTH? the fans. that's it. U2 is a juggernaut in concert and that's what brought the people out.

Yeah.  The band hasn't really had any issue drawing a crowd since, arguably, PopMart.  They don't even need an album to tour behind.  They could do an actual greatest hits tour, a Zoo TV 2, or whatever.  People show up.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on June 16, 2017, 12:49:27 PM
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AM I the only one really happy with what U2 is doing now? I think to label this JT trou asa "nostalgia" event is to miss the forest for the trees. This tour  was born out of the band being pi**ed and it is a tour that if far more relevant to today than any tour of new material would be. I don't think it is just coincendenc that a lot of these dates are  in deep red states. They know this music, despite its age, has a lot to say.

Meanwhile they seem to have SOE pretty much wrapped up with Edge pointing to having it out by year's end with an expanded arena tour production to follow. As for working with people like Kendrick Lamar, what if someone in the band likes Kendrick Lamar? Should they  NOT be allowed to work with him because he is new and a current critical darling?  Radiohead is great at what they do, but U2 can't function like Radiohead and never have. They would quit first. It is not in their DNA and never has been and I think it is unfair to ask them to take that route. Far from being on their knees, I think U2 may always be attempting something they know is not even possible anymore, yet they will still keep fighting for it. That is U2.

Touring a 30 year-old album is nostalgia by definition.

That said, I have also said that I attended the 2nd show of this tour and enjoyed it (more than those who were streaming out during The Little Things, surely [but that's what happens when you embark on tours like this]). I have also admitted that, after I heard the KL collab, I thought it was OK.

But none of this changes the feeling that U2 are creatively stuck, and have been past-focused since 1998 (somewhere in this thread I gave like 10 examples of this). I just wish they'd get out of their own heads and release new music that they think is good enough to stand behind, rather than being so driven by (their perception of) what the youth culture wants.

I accidentally clicked on the new album rumors section this morning and found this quote from Ryan Tedder:

"As for their new album, Songs of Experience, Iíve already been working with them for a year. Weíre roping in some really good remixes that are going to kick an entirely new door wide open for U2 fans. The world right now is listening to such different music that you canít expect a 20-year-old to gravitate to a U2 record if itís not put in the context of what they listen to today."

"Strike that. We do need the pop kids after all."
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Neil Young, man! on June 16, 2017, 03:43:51 PM
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AM I the only one really happy with what U2 is doing now? I think to label this JT trou asa "nostalgia" event is to miss the forest for the trees. This tour  was born out of the band being pi**ed and it is a tour that if far more relevant to today than any tour of new material would be. I don't think it is just coincendenc that a lot of these dates are  in deep red states. They know this music, despite its age, has a lot to say.

Meanwhile they seem to have SOE pretty much wrapped up with Edge pointing to having it out by year's end with an expanded arena tour production to follow. As for working with people like Kendrick Lamar, what if someone in the band likes Kendrick Lamar? Should they  NOT be allowed to work with him because he is new and a current critical darling?  Radiohead is great at what they do, but U2 can't function like Radiohead and never have. They would quit first. It is not in their DNA and never has been and I think it is unfair to ask them to take that route. Far from being on their knees, I think U2 may always be attempting something they know is not even possible anymore, yet they will still keep fighting for it. That is U2.

Touring a 30 year-old album is nostalgia by definition.

That said, I have also said that I attended the 2nd show of this tour and enjoyed it (more than those who were streaming out during The Little Things, surely [but that's what happens when you embark on tours like this]). I have also admitted that, after I heard the KL collab, I thought it was OK.

But none of this changes the feeling that U2 are creatively stuck, and have been past-focused since 1998 (somewhere in this thread I gave like 10 examples of this). I just wish they'd get out of their own heads and release new music that they think is good enough to stand behind, rather than being so driven by (their perception of) what the youth culture wants.

I accidentally clicked on the new album rumors section this morning and found this quote from Ryan Tedder:

"As for their new album, Songs of Experience, Iíve already been working with them for a year. Weíre roping in some really good remixes that are going to kick an entirely new door wide open for U2 fans. The world right now is listening to such different music that you canít expect a 20-year-old to gravitate to a U2 record if itís not put in the context of what they listen to today."

"Strike that. We do need the pop kids after all."
Out of the blue and into the black. I hope Ryan Tedder is never coming back.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: JTNash on June 16, 2017, 05:27:25 PM
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AM I the only one really happy with what U2 is doing now? I think to label this JT trou asa "nostalgia" event is to miss the forest for the trees. This tour  was born out of the band being pi**ed and it is a tour that if far more relevant to today than any tour of new material would be. I don't think it is just coincendenc that a lot of these dates are  in deep red states. They know this music, despite its age, has a lot to say.

Meanwhile they seem to have SOE pretty much wrapped up with Edge pointing to having it out by year's end with an expanded arena tour production to follow. As for working with people like Kendrick Lamar, what if someone in the band likes Kendrick Lamar? Should they  NOT be allowed to work with him because he is new and a current critical darling?  Radiohead is great at what they do, but U2 can't function like Radiohead and never have. They would quit first. It is not in their DNA and never has been and I think it is unfair to ask them to take that route. Far from being on their knees, I think U2 may always be attempting something they know is not even possible anymore, yet they will still keep fighting for it. That is U2.

Touring a 30 year-old album is nostalgia by definition.

That said, I have also said that I attended the 2nd show of this tour and enjoyed it (more than those who were streaming out during The Little Things, surely [but that's what happens when you embark on tours like this]). I have also admitted that, after I heard the KL collab, I thought it was OK.

But none of this changes the feeling that U2 are creatively stuck, and have been past-focused since 1998 (somewhere in this thread I gave like 10 examples of this). I just wish they'd get out of their own heads and release new music that they think is good enough to stand behind, rather than being so driven by (their perception of) what the youth culture wants.

I accidentally clicked on the new album rumors section this morning and found this quote from Ryan Tedder:

"As for their new album, Songs of Experience, Iíve already been working with them for a year. Weíre roping in some really good remixes that are going to kick an entirely new door wide open for U2 fans. The world right now is listening to such different music that you canít expect a 20-year-old to gravitate to a U2 record if itís not put in the context of what they listen to today."

"Strike that. We do need the pop kids after all."
Out of the blue and into the black. I hope Ryan Tedder is never coming back.
it's too late to Apologize for that lol
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Blueyedboy on June 16, 2017, 08:18:12 PM
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i get that but i really think it's overblown how some people think the song was ON the JT. i mean it was a b-side and outside of "real fans" whos gonna get that? idk i just think the b-side being well known argument is exaggerated.

I agree with this.  Sweetest Thing may have signaled a new direction for the band after Pop, but I think it just happened to be the b-side they figured had the most commercial potential.  The album it was associated with was pretty insignificant, other than wanting something from the 80's to fit with that compilation.  I just think it was the best track they had "in the vaults", at least by their estimation.  Put it this way: they weren't going to redo Race Against Time or Bass Trap.
At the time I remember being really surprised that "Sweetest Thing" became a hit.  It's never a favorite of mine (a little too poppy for my tastes), but it was great to see U2 have a hit again after the songs from Pop never really took off in popularity.  I wonder if U2 themselves were surprised that it was a hit.  I would have to look that up.

I doubt they were all that surprised.  IIRC, it was thought of highly enough to JUST miss out on being put on TJT.  (Though it seems like it wouldn't really fit to me.)  I even remember reading some effusive review of the song in the book U2: Three Chords and the Truth (which was, I believe, a compilation of articles from Hot Press produced at the end of the 80's).  I think the band always had viewed the song highly, which likely made it a no-brainer when it came to finding an old track to rework for the 1980-1990 set.

Even more, I wonder if the song really held any significance to them in terms of "this is the direction we want to go now", or if it was more coincidental that it seemed to predict the direction they'd take with ATYCLB.  I think it's possible that there was no intention at the time other than using the most commercially-viable b-side.

I'm convinced that this is the case. I think the commercial success of the song raised a few eyebrows. Here's a song that would've taken a fraction of the time to put together of songs on Pop or AB performing as well in the charts. Any bother with all the bells and whistles if this is what the public wants.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: U2jojo on June 17, 2017, 07:29:04 AM
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AM I the only one really happy with what U2 is doing now? I think to label this JT trou asa "nostalgia" event is to miss the forest for the trees. This tour  was born out of the band being pi**ed and it is a tour that if far more relevant to today than any tour of new material would be. I don't think it is just coincendenc that a lot of these dates are  in deep red states. They know this music, despite its age, has a lot to say.

Meanwhile they seem to have SOE pretty much wrapped up with Edge pointing to having it out by year's end with an expanded arena tour production to follow. As for working with people like Kendrick Lamar, what if someone in the band likes Kendrick Lamar? Should they  NOT be allowed to work with him because he is new and a current critical darling?  Radiohead is great at what they do, but U2 can't function like Radiohead and never have. They would quit first. It is not in their DNA and never has been and I think it is unfair to ask them to take that route. Far from being on their knees, I think U2 may always be attempting something they know is not even possible anymore, yet they will still keep fighting for it. That is U2.

Touring a 30 year-old album is nostalgia by definition.

That said, I have also said that I attended the 2nd show of this tour and enjoyed it (more than those who were streaming out during The Little Things, surely [but that's what happens when you embark on tours like this]). I have also admitted that, after I heard the KL collab, I thought it was OK.

But none of this changes the feeling that U2 are creatively stuck, and have been past-focused since 1998 (somewhere in this thread I gave like 10 examples of this). I just wish they'd get out of their own heads and release new music that they think is good enough to stand behind, rather than being so driven by (their perception of) what the youth culture wants.

I accidentally clicked on the new album rumors section this morning and found this quote from Ryan Tedder:

"As for their new album, Songs of Experience, Iíve already been working with them for a year. Weíre roping in some really good remixes that are going to kick an entirely new door wide open for U2 fans. The world right now is listening to such different music that you canít expect a 20-year-old to gravitate to a U2 record if itís not put in the context of what they listen to today."

Nail, meet coffin.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: JTNash on June 17, 2017, 07:32:37 AM
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AM I the only one really happy with what U2 is doing now? I think to label this JT trou asa "nostalgia" event is to miss the forest for the trees. This tour  was born out of the band being pi**ed and it is a tour that if far more relevant to today than any tour of new material would be. I don't think it is just coincendenc that a lot of these dates are  in deep red states. They know this music, despite its age, has a lot to say.

Meanwhile they seem to have SOE pretty much wrapped up with Edge pointing to having it out by year's end with an expanded arena tour production to follow. As for working with people like Kendrick Lamar, what if someone in the band likes Kendrick Lamar? Should they  NOT be allowed to work with him because he is new and a current critical darling?  Radiohead is great at what they do, but U2 can't function like Radiohead and never have. They would quit first. It is not in their DNA and never has been and I think it is unfair to ask them to take that route. Far from being on their knees, I think U2 may always be attempting something they know is not even possible anymore, yet they will still keep fighting for it. That is U2.

Touring a 30 year-old album is nostalgia by definition.

That said, I have also said that I attended the 2nd show of this tour and enjoyed it (more than those who were streaming out during The Little Things, surely [but that's what happens when you embark on tours like this]). I have also admitted that, after I heard the KL collab, I thought it was OK.

But none of this changes the feeling that U2 are creatively stuck, and have been past-focused since 1998 (somewhere in this thread I gave like 10 examples of this). I just wish they'd get out of their own heads and release new music that they think is good enough to stand behind, rather than being so driven by (their perception of) what the youth culture wants.

I accidentally clicked on the new album rumors section this morning and found this quote from Ryan Tedder:

"As for their new album, Songs of Experience, Iíve already been working with them for a year. Weíre roping in some really good remixes that are going to kick an entirely new door wide open for U2 fans. The world right now is listening to such different music that you canít expect a 20-year-old to gravitate to a U2 record if itís not put in the context of what they listen to today."

"Strike that. We do need the pop kids after all."
Out of the blue and into the black. I hope Ryan Tedder is never coming back.
it's too late to Apologize for that lol
so no one got this One Republic reference?
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: trevgreg on June 17, 2017, 08:16:15 AM
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so no one got this One Republic reference?

It's too laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate...
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Neil Young, man! on June 17, 2017, 01:00:48 PM
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so no one got this One Republic reference?

It's too laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate...
Still can't name a single Ome Republic song and proud of it!
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: U2jojo on June 17, 2017, 03:27:09 PM
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so no one got this One Republic reference?

It's too laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate...
Still can't name a single Ome Republic song and proud of it!

I will take your inability to name a song and raise you a "wouldn't recognize any of them if they were sitting next to me on a 15 hour flight" and a "I have no idea what country they're even from"
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on June 17, 2017, 07:19:11 PM
I liked the song that played over the end credits of The Giver, looked it up, and added it to my music library: Ordinary Human, OneRepublic.  Thought it had a bit of a U2 vibe at the time.  Haven't listened to any other songs by the band, though.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on June 19, 2017, 12:47:25 PM
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I liked the song that played over the end credits of The Giver, looked it up, and added it to my music library: Ordinary Human, OneRepublic.  Thought it had a bit of a U2 vibe at the time.  Haven't listened to any other songs by the band, though.

As an aside, here's a Spotify playlist I made the other day. It's 20 songs by 20 new bands (sorry, no One Republic on there!). There's a lot more out there than just U2....

https://open.spotify.com/user/1261853452/playlist/2xNBUNUvCYeLbdOY5jqmIi
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on June 19, 2017, 12:54:11 PM
And is anyone else frustrated by the switch from UV to MW? It's like the band just can't help themselves from trotting out their most worn-out material. They've dropped ASOH and TLTTGYA, and it's only a matter of time before they drop Miss Sarajevo in favor of Vertigo or OOC. Sigh.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Saint1322 on June 19, 2017, 01:00:50 PM
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And is anyone else frustrated by the switch from UV to MW? It's like the band just can't help themselves from trotting out their most worn-out material. They've dropped ASOH and TLTTGYA, and it's only a matter of time before they drop Miss Sarajevo in favor of Vertigo or OOC. Sigh.

They are really hyper-sensitive about that Side 2 run of unfamiliar songs. And also, never underestimate what the band sees from its perspective. As frustrated as I am that Elevation is still in the set, that freaking song got the biggest response of the night in Tampa. So put yourself in Bono's shoes; do you want to see 60,000 jumping up and down, or 30,000 people standing stock still, 20,000 people checking their phones and 10,000 people hitting the bathroom?

That's on the crowd, not the band.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on June 19, 2017, 01:15:33 PM
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And is anyone else frustrated by the switch from UV to MW? It's like the band just can't help themselves from trotting out their most worn-out material. They've dropped ASOH and TLTTGYA, and it's only a matter of time before they drop Miss Sarajevo in favor of Vertigo or OOC. Sigh.

They are really hyper-sensitive about that Side 2 run of unfamiliar songs. And also, never underestimate what the band sees from its perspective. As frustrated as I am that Elevation is still in the set, that freaking song got the biggest response of the night in Tampa. So put yourself in Bono's shoes; do you want to see 60,000 jumping up and down, or 30,000 people standing stock still, 20,000 people checking their phones and 10,000 people hitting the bathroom?

That's on the crowd, not the band.

Take your point, but if I were in Bono's shoes my self-respect would make me start to resent my audience for having bad taste.

(Slight) kidding aside, any artist could start to resent the public for only liking his most banal and mindless output. The band has said as much, saying long ago that the day they become a traveling jukebox churning out well-worn hits is the day they'll hang it up.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate hearing side 2 of the album a lot. But geez, Mysterious Ways? Really?
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: JTNash on June 19, 2017, 01:16:31 PM
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And is anyone else frustrated by the switch from UV to MW? It's like the band just can't help themselves from trotting out their most worn-out material. They've dropped ASOH and TLTTGYA, and it's only a matter of time before they drop Miss Sarajevo in favor of Vertigo or OOC. Sigh.

They are really hyper-sensitive about that Side 2 run of unfamiliar songs. And also, never underestimate what the band sees from its perspective. As frustrated as I am that Elevation is still in the set, that freaking song got the biggest response of the night in Tampa. So put yourself in Bono's shoes; do you want to see 60,000 jumping up and down, or 30,000 people standing stock still, 20,000 people checking their phones and 10,000 people hitting the bathroom?

That's on the crowd, not the band.
True Fans hold it till it's over!
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Saint1322 on June 19, 2017, 01:26:28 PM
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And is anyone else frustrated by the switch from UV to MW? It's like the band just can't help themselves from trotting out their most worn-out material. They've dropped ASOH and TLTTGYA, and it's only a matter of time before they drop Miss Sarajevo in favor of Vertigo or OOC. Sigh.

They are really hyper-sensitive about that Side 2 run of unfamiliar songs. And also, never underestimate what the band sees from its perspective. As frustrated as I am that Elevation is still in the set, that freaking song got the biggest response of the night in Tampa. So put yourself in Bono's shoes; do you want to see 60,000 jumping up and down, or 30,000 people standing stock still, 20,000 people checking their phones and 10,000 people hitting the bathroom?

That's on the crowd, not the band.

Take your point, but if I were in Bono's shoes my self-respect would make me start to resent my audience for having bad taste.

(Slight) kidding aside, any artist could start to resent the public for only liking his most banal and mindless output. The band has said as much, saying long ago that the day they become a traveling jukebox churning out well-worn hits is the day they'll hang it up.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate hearing side 2 of the album a lot. But geez, Mysterious Ways? Really?

Listen I agree with you, I really do. I was ill enough about not getting ASOH in Tampa. If I had gotten MW instead of UV? I'd have been pretty upset about that. But again, there are 1,000 people for each of us at every stadium. And in all honesty, I think U2 have let go of any pretension about which songs people go nuts over and are just happy that someone is still going nuts at all at their age.

I mean, the boys ain't boys anymore, and on some level, it has to be immensely satisfying for a 57-year-old to go out and play a packed football stadium outside of his home country and see people jumping up and down en masse to a song he wrote when he was 40 years old!
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: JTNash on June 19, 2017, 02:38:01 PM
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And is anyone else frustrated by the switch from UV to MW? It's like the band just can't help themselves from trotting out their most worn-out material. They've dropped ASOH and TLTTGYA, and it's only a matter of time before they drop Miss Sarajevo in favor of Vertigo or OOC. Sigh.

They are really hyper-sensitive about that Side 2 run of unfamiliar songs. And also, never underestimate what the band sees from its perspective. As frustrated as I am that Elevation is still in the set, that freaking song got the biggest response of the night in Tampa. So put yourself in Bono's shoes; do you want to see 60,000 jumping up and down, or 30,000 people standing stock still, 20,000 people checking their phones and 10,000 people hitting the bathroom?

That's on the crowd, not the band.

Take your point, but if I were in Bono's shoes my self-respect would make me start to resent my audience for having bad taste.

(Slight) kidding aside, any artist could start to resent the public for only liking his most banal and mindless output. The band has said as much, saying long ago that the day they become a traveling jukebox churning out well-worn hits is the day they'll hang it up.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate hearing side 2 of the album a lot. But geez, Mysterious Ways? Really?

Listen I agree with you, I really do. I was ill enough about not getting ASOH in Tampa. If I had gotten MW instead of UV? I'd have been pretty upset about that. But again, there are 1,000 people for each of us at every stadium. And in all honesty, I think U2 have let go of any pretension about which songs people go nuts over and are just happy that someone is still going nuts at all at their age.

I mean, the boys ain't boys anymore, and on some level, it has to be immensely satisfying for a 57-year-old to go out and play a packed football stadium outside of his home country and see people jumping up and down en masse to a song he wrote when he was 40 years old!
yeah ask poor Ryan Tedder what's it's like for no one to jump up and down for your songs lol. 
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: shineinthesummernight on June 19, 2017, 02:49:46 PM
Neither "Elevation" nor "Mysterious Ways" is my favorite U2 song, but each can be a lot of fun!
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Johnny Feathers on June 19, 2017, 03:00:32 PM
I haven't seen any performances of MW from this tour, but I will say that UV, for being somewhat of a rarity, wasn't all that great. I wasn't a fan of the "feminist" context the song was used for. Not that I disagree with the intent, but UV should be more despairing, not uplifting. To me, anyway. In that context, I think MW is a bit more fitting.


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Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: shineinthesummernight on June 19, 2017, 03:11:51 PM
INteresting take on UV, Johnny.  I've never thought of it as despairing, due to it's soaring "Baby, baby, baby light my way."  Some of the lines could certainly be construed that way:  "your love is a secret that's been passed around"....for example.  But that "Baby, baby" part always leaves me on an uplift....
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: World71R on June 19, 2017, 08:24:49 PM
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INteresting take on UV, Johnny.  I've never thought of it as despairing, due to it's soaring "Baby, baby, baby light my way."  Some of the lines could certainly be construed that way:  "your love is a secret that's been passed around"....for example.  But that "Baby, baby" part always leaves me on an uplift....

That's the beauty of the song, and the whole AB era, in many ways. It's a hard-hitting song about the struggles of love but it has certain tendencies that mask and soften such a thing.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Ultrafly on June 20, 2017, 03:20:07 AM
I fear that by the time we get to Europe, all the rarer songs will be out - so ASOH, UV, Little Things, etc will all be murdered. Fan favourites are never as important as crowd pleasy bouncy bouncy
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Saint1322 on June 20, 2017, 07:17:34 AM
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I haven't seen any performances of MW from this tour, but I will say that UV, for being somewhat of a rarity, wasn't all that great. I wasn't a fan of the "feminist" context the song was used for. Not that I disagree with the intent, but UV should be more despairing, not uplifting. To me, anyway. In that context, I think MW is a bit more fitting.


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And you may be right, but if they are going to replace an album cut/fan favorite with a single there, then they need to cut a single for an album cut to balance it. Outside of Side 2 and Miss Sarajevo, this basically has morphed into a greatest hits show.

I agree with you 100 percent, and one of the @U2 columnists nailed it for me when he compared the UV/feminist thing with Streets/Africa on Vertigo. Beautiful, worthy, important causes, but just no. And I understand that Bono wrote the songs, and they are his to interpret and mold as he sees fit, but no.

Having now seen a show, I have to believe this thing is going get a major facelift when it goes to the UK. I mean, Bono literally talked about America ALL NIGHT.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: sulphur76 on June 20, 2017, 07:57:58 AM
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And is anyone else frustrated by the switch from UV to MW? It's like the band just can't help themselves from trotting out their most worn-out material. They've dropped ASOH and TLTTGYA, and it's only a matter of time before they drop Miss Sarajevo in favor of Vertigo or OOC. Sigh.

I see it as another example of how this band continues to ignore it's hardcore fan base. I like those songs they replaced with (well, not really Elevation), but the fact that they are removing the non-JT songs that the U2 community was excited about (ASOH, Little Things, UV) is a tad deflating. This is the same community that seem to be the only part of their fans that are truly looking forward to a new album, yet they continue to delay that as well. It just seems like an odd thing to do at this stage in their career; when they are becoming less popular, they are making several moves to lose the interest of the market that still wants to support them.

Yes, I understand they are selling out stadiums, but it is on the backbone of a 30 year old album. There is no future in this, and I fear they will move forward with the belief that the success of this tour will equate to the sales and success of their next release. It won't.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Saint1322 on June 20, 2017, 08:03:49 AM
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And is anyone else frustrated by the switch from UV to MW? It's like the band just can't help themselves from trotting out their most worn-out material. They've dropped ASOH and TLTTGYA, and it's only a matter of time before they drop Miss Sarajevo in favor of Vertigo or OOC. Sigh.

I see it as another example of how this band continues to ignore it's hardcore fan base. I like those songs they replaced with (well, not really Elevation), but the fact that they are removing the non-JT songs that the U2 community was excited about (ASOH, Little Things, UV) is a tad deflating. This is the same community that seem to be the only part of their fans that are truly looking forward to a new album, yet they continue to delay that as well. It just seems like an odd thing to do at this stage in their career; when they are becoming less popular, they are making several moves to lose the interest of the market that still wants to support them.

Yes, I understand they are selling out stadiums, but it is on the backbone of a 30 year old album. There is no future in this, and I fear they will move forward with the belief that the success of this tour will equate to the sales and success of their next release. It won't.

Again, that's because tens of thousands of people in the crowd had no idea what those songs -- UV, ASOH, Miss Sarajevo, Little Things -- even are. That's reason number 154,432 why stadium shows absolutely SUCK. You have too many people who are there just because it is the big thing going on that night, and they screw things up for everyone. Arena shows separate the sheep from that goats, and that's when you take care of your die hard audience with goodies.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on June 20, 2017, 08:46:27 AM
On the other hand, U2 advertised this as The Joshua Tree Tour and are fulfilling their promise to play the full album, including all its rarely-played deep cuts, so aren't any other songs played really a bonus? 

I'd certainly prefer a third section of the show to be more in tune with The Joshua Tree era (album b-sides and Rattle And Hum) and overall feel of the first two sections, but this obviously isn't how the band is thinking.



Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: riffraff on June 20, 2017, 08:50:06 AM
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On the other hand, U2 advertised this as The Joshua Tree Tour and are fulfilling their promise to play the full album, including all its rarely-played deep cuts, so aren't any other songs played really a bonus? 

I'd certainly prefer a third section of the show to be more in tune with The Joshua Tree era (album b-sides and Rattle And Hum) and overall feel of the first two sections, but this obviously isn't how the band is thinking.
Yeah, wouldn't it be nice to see them do Hawkmoon, God Part II, Van Diemen's Land...but, I'll take whatever they give...
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Johnny Feathers on June 20, 2017, 08:53:12 AM
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And you may be right, but if they are going to replace an album cut/fan favorite with a single there, then they need to cut a single for an album cut to balance it. Outside of Side 2 and Miss Sarajevo, this basically has morphed into a greatest hits show.

I agree with you 100 percent, and one of the @U2 columnists nailed it for me when he compared the UV/feminist thing with Streets/Africa on Vertigo. Beautiful, worthy, important causes, but just no. And I understand that Bono wrote the songs, and they are his to interpret and mold as he sees fit, but no.

Having now seen a show, I have to believe this thing is going get a major facelift when it goes to the UK. I mean, Bono literally talked about America ALL NIGHT.

The "greatest hits" aspect isn't surprising to me.  Take out the new material, and most of their tours have been this way.  Playing TJT, with the second side a string of deep cuts, and it necessitates playing some big hits afterward.  Miss Sarejevo is a fine song, but I also am not terribly impressed with it this time around.  I feel like it's been done, and been done better, fairly recently.

Agreed regarding Streets/Africa = UV/feminism.

Not that I'll follow too intently, but it will be interesting to see how this tour translates overseas.  TJT does focus pretty much on America--I'm not sure how that plays in Europe or South America, but it's still managed to be their most successful album.  The post-TJT part, I think, is probably still workable in Europe.  The Syrian refugee crisis, feminist icons, and the RED campaign all seem fairly universal.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Saint1322 on June 20, 2017, 09:40:36 AM
Yeah, the 'fan goodies' on this tour are really TJT Side 2, and ASOH, Bad, UV and Miss Sarajevo are the fan songs (even though I think we all agree Miss Sarajevo needs a break) and a bonus. It just seems the bonuses are slowly but surely being pulled for more hits. And I 100 percent understand why.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: codeguy on June 20, 2017, 09:49:06 AM
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Recent developments such as the Kendrick Lamar collab and the JT30 Tour have made me realize how diametrically opposed U2's entire approach is to what I wish it were.

At this stage in the band's career -- with millions of albums sold and a live track record that is second to none -- U2 should not be scouring the music world searching for the hippest acts they can find in order to ingratiate themselves with kids who weren't even born when Beautiful Day came out.

It's beneath them, and they should know it and act like it. They should be way more elitist.

The coolest thing for U2 to do (or, to have been doing) is to continue making daring, artistically challenging music for their fans and touring that music in theaters and other smaller venues. They started out as an underground, hard-to-pigeonhole type of band -- kind of like a secret known to this tribe of die-hard followers. They've had unparalleled success since then, and they should do the respectable thing and naturally recede back into something more subtle and underground.

If they did, people would respect and admire them even if they're not into their music. But in a few days what will happen is a bunch of kids who like rap will be moaning about how these old guys are ruining a song by one of the best rappers out there.

I know, I know: It's too late, and U2 is what it is. But it just depresses me to see them tarnish their legacy by all this hat-in-hand pandering.

</rant>

I do agree with the collaboration thing, but the touring smaller venues is unrealistic. Inevitably, demand outpaces supply for tickets and it ends up being a wet dream for scalpers and a show in front of fat cats who can afford to pay $1000 for a ticket.

I've always thought U2 should do a Little/Big tour, where they play a stadium date in every city to absorb demand, and via their presale/fan club, do a smaller date in a 500-1,000 ticket venue fora hardcore fans and play songs that would fall flat in a stadium. Would also be a good way to release an interesting album and play it for hardcore fans while still giving the masses what they want
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Johnny Feathers on June 20, 2017, 10:23:57 AM
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Yeah, the 'fan goodies' on this tour are really TJT Side 2, and ASOH, Bad, UV and Miss Sarajevo are the fan songs (even though I think we all agree Miss Sarajevo needs a break) and a bonus. It just seems the bonuses are slowly but surely being pulled for more hits. And I 100 percent understand why.

Even Zoo TV saw them drop some AB songs in favor of the warhorses they'd previously sworn off on the indoor leg: NYD and SBS.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: an tha on June 20, 2017, 10:44:03 AM
Enjoyed reading this but ultimately folks this is u2 we are talking about here and live when it comes to setlists they are as cautious and as safe as it gets.....for lots of reasons.

Put u2 in a stadium and putting on a show touring their most well known album and you can multiply that caution and safety first approach by 10!

Haven't really paid much attention to this tour but seems the encore is from what read earlier now made up of One, MW, BD, Elevation and Vertigo.....oh dear, oh dear, oh dear....that is a shocking state - not one for me that but was always likely to be the sort of thing they would do for these shows.....my view is enjoy the JT rarities and beat the traffic when it comes to that encore.....People going in Europe maybe they'll be a little more creative away from The USA so you may do better, but the setlist is no shock really to me and speaks of the venues and the nature of the tour.....it is what it is and it is one that they can pull off easily enough.

Once this run is over and the money is banked maybe they will look at being a little more daring next tour.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Ultrafly on June 20, 2017, 12:03:29 PM
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Yeah, the 'fan goodies' on this tour are really TJT Side 2, and ASOH, Bad, UV and Miss Sarajevo are the fan songs (even though I think we all agree Miss Sarajevo needs a break) and a bonus. It just seems the bonuses are slowly but surely being pulled for more hits. And I 100 percent understand why.

OH lord no. You do realise that this tour *MAY* see "Miss Sarajevo" played in London and Dublin for the first time?

The completely retrospective nature of the show is very disappointing. I know some of you want a "No songs after 1989" tour, but we're living in 2017 and we can't pretend the past 28 years hasn't happened, even if U2 are.

I think the show will change substantially for Europe : given the bands propensity for topical work, they may even tie in "Mothers Of The Disappeared" to include a reference to the recent awful Grenfell Tower fire in London.  Certainly, as with I+E, and other tours, a gap and change of continent tends to see a setlist change.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on June 20, 2017, 01:06:22 PM
"The Joshua Tree Tour has been an enormous, runaway success and we just keep adding dates. Songs of Experience is ready to go, but at this point Iím not sure when itís going to go because the tour is still up and running."

So why release new material that is "ready to go" if it might distract people from your tour of an album that came out when the Cold War was still a thing and CDs were just becoming mainstream?

Gotcha.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on June 20, 2017, 01:28:30 PM
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"The Joshua Tree Tour has been an enormous, runaway success and we just keep adding dates. Songs of Experience is ready to go, but at this point Iím not sure when itís going to go because the tour is still up and running."

So why release new material that is "ready to go" if it might distract people from your tour of an album that came out when the Cold War was still a thing and CDs were just becoming mainstream?

Gotcha.

they're not gonna like cancel the JT tour and just tour this instead. nor are they gonna retool the whole non-JT JT setlist to add the new songs in. from a production standpoint that would be a nightmare i'd imagine. SOE will get it's tour when it's time.

cut them some slack here.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on June 20, 2017, 01:44:00 PM
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"The Joshua Tree Tour has been an enormous, runaway success and we just keep adding dates. Songs of Experience is ready to go, but at this point Iím not sure when itís going to go because the tour is still up and running."

So why release new material that is "ready to go" if it might distract people from your tour of an album that came out when the Cold War was still a thing and CDs were just becoming mainstream?

Gotcha.

they're not gonna like cancel the JT tour and just tour this instead. nor are they gonna retool the whole non-JT JT setlist to add the new songs in. from a production standpoint that would be a nightmare i'd imagine. SOE will get it's tour when it's time.

cut them some slack here.

Believe me, if there's one thing U2 has been given plenty of by their fans over the years, it's slack.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Ultrafly on June 20, 2017, 01:58:56 PM
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"The Joshua Tree Tour has been an enormous, runaway success and we just keep adding dates. Songs of Experience is ready to go, but at this point Iím not sure when itís going to go because the tour is still up and running."

So why release new material that is "ready to go" if it might distract people from your tour of an album that came out when the Cold War was still a thing and CDs were just becoming mainstream?

Gotcha.

they're not gonna like cancel the JT tour and just tour this instead. nor are they gonna retool the whole non-JT JT setlist to add the new songs in. from a production standpoint that would be a nightmare i'd imagine. SOE will get it's tour when it's time.

cut them some slack here.

Believe me, if there's one thing U2 has been given plenty of by their fans over the years, it's slack.

U2 have been given so much slack. Their glacial work rate and enormous, counterproductive overthinking about everything has reduced their creativity to a pathetic trickle over the past 15 years. As well as their cowardice around lacking the courage of conviction around the newer songs. Both I+E* and TJT may very well be the first two tours in a row the band have ditched the entire of the preceding album from their setlists.

*one performance of "Magnificent" out of around 2000 songs doesn't count.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on June 20, 2017, 02:02:02 PM
yes it sucks they wont play anything post-HTDAAB but you all are whining that they arent releasing a new album when they're on tour giving us at least 6 deep cuts that we want to hear. how about enjoy the tour and when SOE comes out we'll have new music and maybe other deep cuts to hear on tour
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on June 20, 2017, 02:03:39 PM
and they played ALOT of SOI songs on the i+e tour. they didn't NLOTH the setlist late into the tour. it all stayed.

count your blessings.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Saint1322 on June 20, 2017, 02:11:16 PM
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Yeah, the 'fan goodies' on this tour are really TJT Side 2, and ASOH, Bad, UV and Miss Sarajevo are the fan songs (even though I think we all agree Miss Sarajevo needs a break) and a bonus. It just seems the bonuses are slowly but surely being pulled for more hits. And I 100 percent understand why.

Even Zoo TV saw them drop some AB songs in favor of the warhorses they'd previously sworn off on the indoor leg: NYD and SBS.

They dropped Wild Horses because they could never quite get it right. The rest stayed. They tried out So Cruel at least once and soundchecked Acrobat, but other than Wild Horses, every AB song that started in the set, stayed in the set until the release of Zooropa, when UV was dropped for Lemon.

Contrast that with the many Pop songs that were dropped over the course of that tour, and how many NLOTH songs were cut from 360. The early legs of that tour were like completely different shows from the latter legs (and I saw early and late on both). With ZooTV, it was more a matter of dropping one song they couldn't get comfortable with and a second, much later, in favor of an even newer song.

Check out the setlist from the Zoomerang run, and the early Zooropa shows. Only one AB song -- UV -- was dropped for Zooropa songs. It was warhorses that got the boot: Bad, SBS, Love Town and Desire were out, Stay, Lemon, Daddy's Gonna Pay, Dirty Day and Numb were in. And they took a swing at Zooropa and Babyface a few times.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Johnny Feathers on June 20, 2017, 02:19:59 PM
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yes it sucks they wont play anything post-HTDAAB but you all are whining that they arent releasing a new album when they're on tour giving us at least 6 deep cuts that we want to hear. how about enjoy the tour and when SOE comes out we'll have new music and maybe other deep cuts to hear on tour

Good lord, yes.  Everyone seems to be conflating a lot of different grievances here:

1. No new material while they're doing a nostalgia tour.  Well, yes.  I don't know why this is surprising.

2. Releasing new music at a slowing rate.  Well, yes.  On one hand, many bands slow down as they get older.  U2 is no exception.  On the other hand, SOI was released 3 years ago.  I don't think there's a lot of room to complain until that passes 4 years--and even then, creative entities create new work on their own schedule.  Nobody is owed anything here.

3. Not playing music from the previous album, two tours in a row.  Fair enough, but this is a tour celebrating TJT, not SOI.  I just saw Metallica play, and they didn't touch anything from the previous TWO albums, and only one song between 1991 and 2017.  I expect the same from Depeche Mode in a few months.  Much as any of us might wish otherwise, bands who made their name two decades (or more) ago are going to rely on that material when doing these mega-stadium tours.  It's what most of the audience actually wants.

I've said it before--I get feeling disappointed with no new material or nostalgia tours, but it always seems to escalate to a sense of indignation on the forum.  The band isn't going to be around forever.  Enjoy what you can from them now, or move on and find another band to follow.  What's the point otherwise?
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on June 20, 2017, 02:29:43 PM
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yes it sucks they wont play anything post-HTDAAB but you all are whining that they arent releasing a new album when they're on tour giving us at least 6 deep cuts that we want to hear. how about enjoy the tour and when SOE comes out we'll have new music and maybe other deep cuts to hear on tour

Hey, I only started complaining after I saw my show....

Kidding aside, I just want new music. Tours are fine, but it's one night of maybe 30 minutes of rare material as opposed to a whole new album that I can listen to over and over again.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Johnny Feathers on June 20, 2017, 02:37:42 PM
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Yeah, the 'fan goodies' on this tour are really TJT Side 2, and ASOH, Bad, UV and Miss Sarajevo are the fan songs (even though I think we all agree Miss Sarajevo needs a break) and a bonus. It just seems the bonuses are slowly but surely being pulled for more hits. And I 100 percent understand why.

Even Zoo TV saw them drop some AB songs in favor of the warhorses they'd previously sworn off on the indoor leg: NYD and SBS.

They dropped Wild Horses because they could never quite get it right. The rest stayed. They tried out So Cruel at least once and soundchecked Acrobat, but other than Wild Horses, every AB song that started in the set, stayed in the set until the release of Zooropa, when UV was dropped for Lemon.

Contrast that with the many Pop songs that were dropped over the course of that tour, and how many NLOTH songs were cut from 360. The early legs of that tour were like completely different shows from the latter legs (and I saw early and late on both). With ZooTV, it was more a matter of dropping one song they couldn't get comfortable with and a second, much later, in favor of an even newer song.

Check out the setlist from the Zoomerang run, and the early Zooropa shows. Only one AB song -- UV -- was dropped for Zooropa songs. It was warhorses that got the boot: Bad, SBS, Love Town and Desire were out, Stay, Lemon, Daddy's Gonna Pay, Dirty Day and Numb were in. And they took a swing at Zooropa and Babyface a few times.

That's true.  I was thinking more of when I saw the indoor vs. outdoor US legs--I remember them making a big proclamation of "new material from before TUF", but they obviously changed their tune a bit on the outside leg: they dropped WGRYWH and UV when I saw them on the outside leg, and brought in NYD and SBS.  It's not quite the same, though, as they also added Can't Help Falling in Love, Larry's turn at the mic, and swapped Bad for AIWIY.

I agree that Zoomerang was pretty cool in terms of new material, though.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Ultrafly on June 20, 2017, 03:07:18 PM
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yes it sucks they wont play anything post-HTDAAB but you all are whining that they arent releasing a new album when they're on tour giving us at least 6 deep cuts that we want to hear. how about enjoy the tour and when SOE comes out we'll have new music and maybe other deep cuts to hear on tour

3. Not playing music from the previous album, two tours in a row.  Fair enough, but this is a tour celebrating TJT, not SOI.  I just saw Metallica play, and they didn't touch anything from the previous TWO albums, and only one song between 1991 and 2017.  I expect the same from Depeche Mode in a few months.  Much as any of us might wish otherwise, bands who made their name two decades (or more) ago are going to rely on that material when doing these mega-stadium tours.  It's what most of the audience actually wants.


Depends what you mean about the previous TWO albums (are you including Lulu? That's a very, very bad record)

Depeche Mode : I quickly checked when I saw them last month, and they have 5 new songs and 10 overall from 1997-2017.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Johnny Feathers on June 20, 2017, 03:12:10 PM
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yes it sucks they wont play anything post-HTDAAB but you all are whining that they arent releasing a new album when they're on tour giving us at least 6 deep cuts that we want to hear. how about enjoy the tour and when SOE comes out we'll have new music and maybe other deep cuts to hear on tour

3. Not playing music from the previous album, two tours in a row.  Fair enough, but this is a tour celebrating TJT, not SOI.  I just saw Metallica play, and they didn't touch anything from the previous TWO albums, and only one song between 1991 and 2017.  I expect the same from Depeche Mode in a few months.  Much as any of us might wish otherwise, bands who made their name two decades (or more) ago are going to rely on that material when doing these mega-stadium tours.  It's what most of the audience actually wants.


Depends what you mean about the previous TWO albums (are you including Lulu? That's a very, very bad record)

Depeche Mode : I quickly checked when I saw them last month, and they have 5 new songs and 10 overall from 1997-2017.

No, I was counting Death Magnetic and St. Anger.  One single track from ReLoad, nothing from Load.

No spoilers for DM!  I have a hunch which albums are represented from that timeframe, but I'll wait and see in August.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Ultrafly on June 20, 2017, 03:24:02 PM
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yes it sucks they wont play anything post-HTDAAB but you all are whining that they arent releasing a new album when they're on tour giving us at least 6 deep cuts that we want to hear. how about enjoy the tour and when SOE comes out we'll have new music and maybe other deep cuts to hear on tour

3. Not playing music from the previous album, two tours in a row.  Fair enough, but this is a tour celebrating TJT, not SOI.  I just saw Metallica play, and they didn't touch anything from the previous TWO albums, and only one song between 1991 and 2017.  I expect the same from Depeche Mode in a few months.  Much as any of us might wish otherwise, bands who made their name two decades (or more) ago are going to rely on that material when doing these mega-stadium tours.  It's what most of the audience actually wants.


Depends what you mean about the previous TWO albums (are you including Lulu? That's a very, very bad record)

Depeche Mode : I quickly checked when I saw them last month, and they have 5 new songs and 10 overall from 1997-2017.

No, I was counting Death Magnetic and St. Anger.  One single track from ReLoad, nothing from Load.

No spoilers for DM!  I have a hunch which albums are represented from that timeframe, but I'll wait and see in August.

I was trying not to spoil it too much. :)
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on June 20, 2017, 04:33:13 PM
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yes it sucks they wont play anything post-HTDAAB but you all are whining that they arent releasing a new album when they're on tour giving us at least 6 deep cuts that we want to hear. how about enjoy the tour and when SOE comes out we'll have new music and maybe other deep cuts to hear on tour

Good lord, yes.  Everyone seems to be conflating a lot of different grievances here:

1. No new material while they're doing a nostalgia tour.  Well, yes.  I don't know why this is surprising.

2. Releasing new music at a slowing rate.  Well, yes.  On one hand, many bands slow down as they get older.  U2 is no exception.  On the other hand, SOI was released 3 years ago.  I don't think there's a lot of room to complain until that passes 4 years--and even then, creative entities create new work on their own schedule.  Nobody is owed anything here.

3. Not playing music from the previous album, two tours in a row.  Fair enough, but this is a tour celebrating TJT, not SOI. I just saw Metallica play, and they didn't touch anything from the previous TWO albums, and only one song between 1991 and 2017.  I expect the same from Depeche Mode in a few months.  Much as any of us might wish otherwise, bands who made their name two decades (or more) ago are going to rely on that material when doing these mega-stadium tours.  It's what most of the audience actually wants.

I've said it before--I get feeling disappointed with no new material or nostalgia tours, but it always seems to escalate to a sense of indignation on the forum.  The band isn't going to be around forever.  Enjoy what you can from them now, or move on and find another band to follow.  What's the point otherwise?

right, but this is the opposite of U2. U2 will cling to the hits and ignore the deep cuts. What happened with Metallica is they skipped the Load/Reload hits <and the NO hits from St. Anger> to give us Blackened, Fight Fire with Fire, Four Horsemen.

Imagine U2 skipping ISHF, WOWY, and Pride to play Wire, Gloria and Gone. Point being Metallica turned their back on a few of their big radio hits. No one was whining that they didn't play anything of St. Anger ;)
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Johnny Feathers on June 20, 2017, 04:54:47 PM
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right, but this is the opposite of U2. U2 will cling to the hits and ignore the deep cuts. What happened with Metallica is they skipped the Load/Reload hits <and the NO hits from St. Anger> to give us Blackened, Fight Fire with Fire, Four Horsemen.

Imagine U2 skipping ISHF, WOWY, and Pride to play Wire, Gloria and Gone. Point being Metallica turned their back on a few of their big radio hits. No one was whining that they didn't play anything of St. Anger ;)

Well, I only got one of the three you mentioned (Four Horsemen). My point is that the complaints about U2's setlists apply to a lot of bands, particularly those of a certain age and level of popularity. My main issue with this tour is the "rarities" this time around have already been done, and better (UV on 360, MS on Vertigo), while they dropped the one rarity I still could have hoped to hear (ASOH).

I also wonder if maybe Metallica fans look at St. Anger the way U2 fans look at NLOTH (in general).



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Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on June 20, 2017, 05:36:07 PM
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yes it sucks they wont play anything post-HTDAAB but you all are whining that they arent releasing a new album when they're on tour giving us at least 6 deep cuts that we want to hear. how about enjoy the tour and when SOE comes out we'll have new music and maybe other deep cuts to hear on tour

Hey, I only started complaining after I saw my show....

Kidding aside, I just want new music. Tours are fine, but it's one night of maybe 30 minutes of rare material as opposed to a whole new album that I can listen to over and over again.

so would you be happy with a tour that didn't feature the new songs if it meant you had a new album?
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on June 20, 2017, 05:37:15 PM
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right, but this is the opposite of U2. U2 will cling to the hits and ignore the deep cuts. What happened with Metallica is they skipped the Load/Reload hits <and the NO hits from St. Anger> to give us Blackened, Fight Fire with Fire, Four Horsemen.

Imagine U2 skipping ISHF, WOWY, and Pride to play Wire, Gloria and Gone. Point being Metallica turned their back on a few of their big radio hits. No one was whining that they didn't play anything of St. Anger ;)

Well, I only got one of the three you mentioned (Four Horsemen). My point is that the complaints about U2's setlists apply to a lot of bands, particularly those of a certain age and level of popularity. My main issue with this tour is the "rarities" this time around have already been done, and better (UV on 360, MS on Vertigo), while they dropped the one rarity I still could have hoped to hear (ASOH).

I also wonder if maybe Metallica fans look at St. Anger the way U2 fans look at NLOTH (in general).



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i'm new to the Metallica scene but i'm under the impression it's universally hated. Death Magnetic however i very much enjoyed! Hetfields voice has held up better than Bonos and they are roughly the same age
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Johnny Feathers on June 20, 2017, 06:21:14 PM
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right, but this is the opposite of U2. U2 will cling to the hits and ignore the deep cuts. What happened with Metallica is they skipped the Load/Reload hits <and the NO hits from St. Anger> to give us Blackened, Fight Fire with Fire, Four Horsemen.

Imagine U2 skipping ISHF, WOWY, and Pride to play Wire, Gloria and Gone. Point being Metallica turned their back on a few of their big radio hits. No one was whining that they didn't play anything of St. Anger ;)

Well, I only got one of the three you mentioned (Four Horsemen). My point is that the complaints about U2's setlists apply to a lot of bands, particularly those of a certain age and level of popularity. My main issue with this tour is the "rarities" this time around have already been done, and better (UV on 360, MS on Vertigo), while they dropped the one rarity I still could have hoped to hear (ASOH).

I also wonder if maybe Metallica fans look at St. Anger the way U2 fans look at NLOTH (in general).



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i'm new to the Metallica scene but i'm under the impression it's universally hated. Death Magnetic however i very much enjoyed! Hetfields voice has held up better than Bonos and they are roughly the same age

I think there's a big difference in what they sing. Bono has relied on his high end, which fades drastically as you get older. Hetfield has sung much lower parts.


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Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on June 20, 2017, 06:47:50 PM
With Adam confirming the new album is ready to go today, it seems like we're in new and uncharted U2 territory...or are we?  If memory serves me correctly, Zooropa came out while the band was in the midst of the Zoo TV/Zoomerang tours...

So why NOT release Songs Of Experience now?

Release it and replace the first or third sections of the tour with new songs.  I'd be very happy with that and new U2 to listen to over the summer...they'll probably wait until Christmas, though...unless the tour continues to get extended.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on June 20, 2017, 06:50:27 PM
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right, but this is the opposite of U2. U2 will cling to the hits and ignore the deep cuts. What happened with Metallica is they skipped the Load/Reload hits <and the NO hits from St. Anger> to give us Blackened, Fight Fire with Fire, Four Horsemen.

Imagine U2 skipping ISHF, WOWY, and Pride to play Wire, Gloria and Gone. Point being Metallica turned their back on a few of their big radio hits. No one was whining that they didn't play anything of St. Anger ;)

Well, I only got one of the three you mentioned (Four Horsemen). My point is that the complaints about U2's setlists apply to a lot of bands, particularly those of a certain age and level of popularity. My main issue with this tour is the "rarities" this time around have already been done, and better (UV on 360, MS on Vertigo), while they dropped the one rarity I still could have hoped to hear (ASOH).

I also wonder if maybe Metallica fans look at St. Anger the way U2 fans look at NLOTH (in general).



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

i'm new to the Metallica scene but i'm under the impression it's universally hated. Death Magnetic however i very much enjoyed! Hetfields voice has held up better than Bonos and they are roughly the same age

I think there's a big difference in what they sing. Bono has relied on his high end, which fades drastically as you get older. Hetfield has sung much lower parts.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

well thats true i never thought it of it like that.

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With Adam confirming the new album is ready to go today, it seems like we're in new and uncharted U2 territory...or are we?  If memory serves me correctly, Zooropa came out while the band was in the midst of the Zoo TV/Zoomerang tours...

So why NOT release Songs Of Experience now?

Release it and replace the first or third sections of the tour with new songs.  I'd be very happy with that and new U2 to listen to over the summer...they'll probably wait until Christmas, though...unless the tour continues to get extended.

if Adam is telling the truth and they don't scrap the album as is then i'd imagine Christmas. the tour ends at the end of October so maybe the new single will drop when the tour stops and the album release will announced then.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Edgematic on June 21, 2017, 08:05:06 AM
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With Adam confirming the new album is ready to go today, it seems like we're in new and uncharted U2 territory...or are we?  If memory serves me correctly, Zooropa came out while the band was in the midst of the Zoo TV/Zoomerang tours...

So why NOT release Songs Of Experience now?

Release it and replace the first or third sections of the tour with new songs.  I'd be very happy with that and new U2 to listen to over the summer...they'll probably wait until Christmas, though...unless the tour continues to get extended.

Because Zooropa was inspired by the ZooTV tour and thematically and sonically consistent with the material they were already highlighting.  SoE was written 30 years after The Joshua Tree so that's not the case.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Johnny Feathers on June 21, 2017, 09:29:14 AM
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With Adam confirming the new album is ready to go today, it seems like we're in new and uncharted U2 territory...or are we?  If memory serves me correctly, Zooropa came out while the band was in the midst of the Zoo TV/Zoomerang tours...

So why NOT release Songs Of Experience now?

Release it and replace the first or third sections of the tour with new songs.  I'd be very happy with that and new U2 to listen to over the summer...they'll probably wait until Christmas, though...unless the tour continues to get extended.

Because Zooropa was inspired by the ZooTV tour and thematically and sonically consistent with the material they were already highlighting.  SoE was written 30 years after The Joshua Tree so that's not the case.

Yeah.  At this point, SOE will be its own "thing", even if it sort of relates to SOI.  Zooropa was originally intended just as an EP to be released to help promote the Zoo TV tour on the European outdoor leg.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on June 21, 2017, 11:06:49 AM
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yes it sucks they wont play anything post-HTDAAB but you all are whining that they arent releasing a new album when they're on tour giving us at least 6 deep cuts that we want to hear. how about enjoy the tour and when SOE comes out we'll have new music and maybe other deep cuts to hear on tour

Hey, I only started complaining after I saw my show....

Kidding aside, I just want new music. Tours are fine, but it's one night of maybe 30 minutes of rare material as opposed to a whole new album that I can listen to over and over again.

so would you be happy with a tour that didn't feature the new songs if it meant you had a new album?

If I could switch out the pattern of album --> tour --> another album 5 years later with any scenario that'd give us a new album every couple years, I'd do it (even if it meant the tours are Greatest Hits shows).

I mean, hearing Cedarwood Road live once on opening night of the I+E Tour is not worth having to wait five years before any new material is released.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Blueyedboy on June 21, 2017, 08:57:13 PM
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yes it sucks they wont play anything post-HTDAAB but you all are whining that they arent releasing a new album when they're on tour giving us at least 6 deep cuts that we want to hear. how about enjoy the tour and when SOE comes out we'll have new music and maybe other deep cuts to hear on tour

Hey, I only started complaining after I saw my show....

Kidding aside, I just want new music. Tours are fine, but it's one night of maybe 30 minutes of rare material as opposed to a whole new album that I can listen to over and over again.

so would you be happy with a tour that didn't feature the new songs if it meant you had a new album?

If I could switch out the pattern of album --> tour --> another album 5 years later with any scenario that'd give us a new album every couple years, I'd do it (even if it meant the tours are Greatest Hits shows).

I mean, hearing Cedarwood Road live once on opening night of the I+E Tour is not worth having to wait five years before any new material is released.

I'd quite happily not see the band tour again in return for album releases for a number of reasons.

Firstly, the most controversial and opinionated reason is that they have not produced any music in recent memory that a live performance would bring out more bombast or atmosphere, such as a Bad or a Mofo. It's all pretty formulaic these days, with songs like Elevation or Vertigo tactically having the live versions laid out on tracks and are predictable when played live (the exception would be a handful of songs from NLOTH but by the time that tour came around to my neck of the woods it had pretty much been diluted with past hits). I liken it to Elbow, another once artistically interesting band, playing their latest string laden hit to an eager crow who only attend to hear the radio hits, and not the brilliant stuff from their superior, but less commercially successful, first couple of albums.
 
Secondly, the tours have become about the spectacle as much (or more than) the music.  Popmart and Zoo TV spoke to their counterpart albums, whereas tours in later years, as great a stage set up as they were, could be interchangeable in concept with many other albums. Pretty much akin to the Rolling Stones.

Lastly, and I'll caveat by saying I obviously have no insight to how the band thinks, but in my own naÔve little world the limitations of authentically (there's another thread on this  :) ) performing a song live may also limit the amount of creativity that goes into the recorded version. Can Bono reach that note on stage or should we drop it a key, can edge replicate his most complex and kick ar*e solo live, how would the fans react to an extra guitarist on stage/Recorded guitar riff to help along? Can Larry maintain that beat and pace when there's only one of him. (Adam can look after himself).

I wont even mention that I have no desire to listen to a set list that contains a third of warhorses that I grew tired of on the Elevation tour. Whoops.

Reading back on this it does seem pretty scathing from me, which is not intentional. There's plenty of positives that I am overlooking from a live U2 concert, but given the choice I would have taken three more albums, unpredictable in nature, in exchange for the past 4 tours. Seems like a fair swap to me.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on June 22, 2017, 12:02:33 AM
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With Adam confirming the new album is ready to go today, it seems like we're in new and uncharted U2 territory...or are we?  If memory serves me correctly, Zooropa came out while the band was in the midst of the Zoo TV/Zoomerang tours...

So why NOT release Songs Of Experience now?

Release it and replace the first or third sections of the tour with new songs.  I'd be very happy with that and new U2 to listen to over the summer...they'll probably wait until Christmas, though...unless the tour continues to get extended.

Because Zooropa was inspired by the ZooTV tour and thematically and sonically consistent with the material they were already highlighting.  SoE was written 30 years after The Joshua Tree so that's not the case.

Yeah.  At this point, SOE will be its own "thing", even if it sort of relates to SOI.  Zooropa was originally intended just as an EP to be released to help promote the Zoo TV tour on the European outdoor leg.

Point being, they released an album in the middle of a tour before, so why not now?  Why sit on new tunes? 

I suppose it's a sign of the position of power they've achieved that they can hold back a full album and decide when it's best to drop it, but I feel like the younger, more hungry U2 would be hellbent on getting the new stuff out into the world.

Maybe the new stuff is...meh?

Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Johnny Feathers on June 22, 2017, 06:00:09 AM
Oh, I think "meh" has been a distinct possibility for awhile now. And I think they will want to release SOE when it can be properly marketed and promoted, not while they're still doing shows devoted to TJT.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on June 22, 2017, 07:56:49 AM
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Oh, I think "meh" has been a distinct possibility for awhile now. And I think they will want to release SOE when it can be properly marketed and promoted, not while they're still doing shows devoted to TJT.

Yeah, I know (tone of resignation here), but I wish they would surprise us with some kind of release this summer.  I miss the old days of EPs and CD singles and 8 and 12 inches with b-sides...
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Edgematic on June 22, 2017, 08:27:15 AM
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With Adam confirming the new album is ready to go today, it seems like we're in new and uncharted U2 territory...or are we?  If memory serves me correctly, Zooropa came out while the band was in the midst of the Zoo TV/Zoomerang tours...

So why NOT release Songs Of Experience now?

Release it and replace the first or third sections of the tour with new songs.  I'd be very happy with that and new U2 to listen to over the summer...they'll probably wait until Christmas, though...unless the tour continues to get extended.

Because Zooropa was inspired by the ZooTV tour and thematically and sonically consistent with the material they were already highlighting.  SoE was written 30 years after The Joshua Tree so that's not the case.

Yeah.  At this point, SOE will be its own "thing", even if it sort of relates to SOI.  Zooropa was originally intended just as an EP to be released to help promote the Zoo TV tour on the European outdoor leg.

Point being, they released an album in the middle of a tour before, so why not now?  Why sit on new tunes? 

I suppose it's a sign of the position of power they've achieved that they can hold back a full album and decide when it's best to drop it, but I feel like the younger, more hungry U2 would be hellbent on getting the new stuff out into the world.

Maybe the new stuff is...meh?

You're starting with a hypothesis ("maybe the new stuff is meh?") and ignoring any facts that get in the way of that hypothesis.

1) as noted previously, the release of Zooropa is 100% inapposite  to the current situation, because that album was essentially an extension of the tour itself. 

2) It's pretty clear that they are using this tour as a way to re-ingratiate themselves to an American audience that they feel (with some validity) has written them off, due to a couple of underwhelming albums and the iTunes snafu.  They have tailored the message to be "Hey, remember this album you all loved? It's still relevant in these troubled times.  Also, here are some other songs from our back catalog that also seem sort of poignant in the age of Trump."   Suddenly dropping a new album, which they would then have to feature...what? At least 3-4 new songs from? Would totally blow up the show.  They'd have to remove either songs from the pre-JT portion, which would kill the energy and interest levels from non-hardcore fans, or make the encores almost strictly new stuff, which would do the same and undo whatever feel-good momentum that was built up from the JT portion. 

3) When to release the album is not solely a band decision.  The label has input, too, and odds are they want to use the JT tour to restore public awareness of U2, and then use that to market the new album.  They tried the sneak-attack album drop with SoI, and, well, it flopped.  They need marketing to build album awareness, and that marketing will likely take place in November in time for a holiday release, so all of the old U2 fans who went to the JT2017 shows, or heard about them, will say "Hey, let's check out the new U2 album!" and buy it around xmas time. 

4) The Joshua Tree album is currently in the Top 20 again http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/chart-beat/7833767/billboard-200-chart-moves-beauty-and-the-beast-soundtrack (http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/chart-beat/7833767/billboard-200-chart-moves-beauty-and-the-beast-soundtrack), first time since 1988.  Why on earth would U2 want to mess with that by putting another album out now?  They (and the label) want to wait until the tour bump is over so they don't cannibalize their own sales.

5) They will want to tour again, on the new album, to do it justice, not do a half-assed "oh by the way!" type thing for fans that aren't familiar with it (see #2).


That's why they won't release it now.

 
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Johnny Feathers on June 22, 2017, 08:36:56 AM
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You're starting with a hypothesis ("maybe the new stuff is meh?") and ignoring any facts that get in the way of that hypothesis.

1) as noted previously, the release of Zooropa is 100% inapposite  to the current situation, because that album was essentially an extension of the tour itself. 

2) It's pretty clear that they are using this tour as a way to re-ingratiate themselves to an American audience that they feel (with some validity) has written them off, due to a couple of underwhelming albums and the iTunes snafu.  They have tailored the message to be "Hey, remember this album you all loved? It's still relevant in these troubled times.  Also, here are some other songs from our back catalog that also seem sort of poignant in the age of Trump."   Suddenly dropping a new album, which they would then have to feature...what? At least 3-4 new songs from? Would totally blow up the show.  They'd have to remove either songs from the pre-JT portion, which would kill the energy and interest levels from non-hardcore fans, or make the encores almost strictly new stuff, which would do the same and undo whatever feel-good momentum that was built up from the JT portion. 

3) When to release the album is not solely a band decision.  The label has input, too, and odds are they want to use the JT tour to restore public awareness of U2, and then use that to market the new album.  They tried the sneak-attack album drop with SoI, and, well, it flopped.  They need marketing to build album awareness, and that marketing will likely take place in November in time for a holiday release, so all of the old U2 fans who went to the JT2017 shows, or heard about them, will say "Hey, let's check out the new U2 album!" and buy it around xmas time. 

4) The Joshua Tree album is currently in the Top 20 again http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/chart-beat/7833767/billboard-200-chart-moves-beauty-and-the-beast-soundtrack (http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/chart-beat/7833767/billboard-200-chart-moves-beauty-and-the-beast-soundtrack), first time since 1988.  Why on earth would U2 want to mess with that by putting another album out now?  They (and the label) want to wait until the tour bump is over so they don't cannibalize their own sales.

5) They will want to tour again, on the new album, to do it justice, not do a half-assed "oh by the way!" type thing for fans that aren't familiar with it (see #2).


That's why they won't release it now.

 

DingDingDingDingDingDingDingDingDingDingDingDing.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Johnny Feathers on June 22, 2017, 08:42:42 AM
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Oh, I think "meh" has been a distinct possibility for awhile now. And I think they will want to release SOE when it can be properly marketed and promoted, not while they're still doing shows devoted to TJT.

Yeah, I know (tone of resignation here), but I wish they would surprise us with some kind of release this summer.  I miss the old days of EPs and CD singles and 8 and 12 inches with b-sides...

You're wishing for bygone days.  B-sides are now album bonus tracks.  There hasn't been a proper, actual b-side in over 10 years.  There will the live b-sides with the fan club gift, but that's more a special release.  Why not just enjoy the tour for what it is for now?  And if not, why not find something else to enjoy until they do release something?  Waiting on an artist to release new material is a fool's game--some of my favorite artists have gone through DECADES without releasing new material.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on June 22, 2017, 10:17:26 AM
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With Adam confirming the new album is ready to go today, it seems like we're in new and uncharted U2 territory...or are we?  If memory serves me correctly, Zooropa came out while the band was in the midst of the Zoo TV/Zoomerang tours...

So why NOT release Songs Of Experience now?

Release it and replace the first or third sections of the tour with new songs.  I'd be very happy with that and new U2 to listen to over the summer...they'll probably wait until Christmas, though...unless the tour continues to get extended.

Because Zooropa was inspired by the ZooTV tour and thematically and sonically consistent with the material they were already highlighting.  SoE was written 30 years after The Joshua Tree so that's not the case.

Yeah.  At this point, SOE will be its own "thing", even if it sort of relates to SOI.  Zooropa was originally intended just as an EP to be released to help promote the Zoo TV tour on the European outdoor leg.

Point being, they released an album in the middle of a tour before, so why not now?  Why sit on new tunes? 

I suppose it's a sign of the position of power they've achieved that they can hold back a full album and decide when it's best to drop it, but I feel like the younger, more hungry U2 would be hellbent on getting the new stuff out into the world.

Maybe the new stuff is...meh?

You're starting with a hypothesis ("maybe the new stuff is meh?") and ignoring any facts that get in the way of that hypothesis.

1) as noted previously, the release of Zooropa is 100% inapposite  to the current situation, because that album was essentially an extension of the tour itself. 

2) It's pretty clear that they are using this tour as a way to re-ingratiate themselves to an American audience that they feel (with some validity) has written them off, due to a couple of underwhelming albums and the iTunes snafu.  They have tailored the message to be "Hey, remember this album you all loved? It's still relevant in these troubled times.  Also, here are some other songs from our back catalog that also seem sort of poignant in the age of Trump."   Suddenly dropping a new album, which they would then have to feature...what? At least 3-4 new songs from? Would totally blow up the show.  They'd have to remove either songs from the pre-JT portion, which would kill the energy and interest levels from non-hardcore fans, or make the encores almost strictly new stuff, which would do the same and undo whatever feel-good momentum that was built up from the JT portion. 

3) When to release the album is not solely a band decision.  The label has input, too, and odds are they want to use the JT tour to restore public awareness of U2, and then use that to market the new album.  They tried the sneak-attack album drop with SoI, and, well, it flopped.  They need marketing to build album awareness, and that marketing will likely take place in November in time for a holiday release, so all of the old U2 fans who went to the JT2017 shows, or heard about them, will say "Hey, let's check out the new U2 album!" and buy it around xmas time. 

4) The Joshua Tree album is currently in the Top 20 again http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/chart-beat/7833767/billboard-200-chart-moves-beauty-and-the-beast-soundtrack (http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/chart-beat/7833767/billboard-200-chart-moves-beauty-and-the-beast-soundtrack), first time since 1988.  Why on earth would U2 want to mess with that by putting another album out now?  They (and the label) want to wait until the tour bump is over so they don't cannibalize their own sales.

5) They will want to tour again, on the new album, to do it justice, not do a half-assed "oh by the way!" type thing for fans that aren't familiar with it (see #2).


That's why they won't release it now.

Thanks, I knew all this.  I've been a U2 fan since 1980 and they've basically operated with the same strategic approach to everything they've done since throughout their career, with the exceptions of perhaps Passengers and Zooropa.  I have no illusions, only wishes.

And, actually, I ended with the "meh" hypothesis.  Only the band knows what's true.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on June 22, 2017, 10:27:42 AM
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Oh, I think "meh" has been a distinct possibility for awhile now. And I think they will want to release SOE when it can be properly marketed and promoted, not while they're still doing shows devoted to TJT.

Yeah, I know (tone of resignation here), but I wish they would surprise us with some kind of release this summer.  I miss the old days of EPs and CD singles and 8 and 12 inches with b-sides...

You're wishing for bygone days.  B-sides are now album bonus tracks.  There hasn't been a proper, actual b-side in over 10 years.  There will the live b-sides with the fan club gift, but that's more a special release.  Why not just enjoy the tour for what it is for now?  And if not, why not find something else to enjoy until they do release something?  Waiting on an artist to release new material is a fool's game--some of my favorite artists have gone through DECADES without releasing new material.

Which bands are those?  I'd hate to see THEIR fan forums.   8)

Two of my favorite bands, Wire and Tuxedomoon, continue to crank out new work pretty much yearly.  It's nicer to feel spoiled by riches than teased with promises.

But Johnny, don't you worry about me!  I enjoyed watching a few of the tour shows, am really liking the Lanois remixes, which count as digital b-sides, it's been nice to see them doing and sounding well, and the only part of my day devoted to thinking about U2's life choices is when I read through the forums in the morning.

And yes, I sometimes feel nostalgic for bygone days.  I thought this was a nostalgia tour!   8)

Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Johnny Feathers on June 22, 2017, 10:59:05 AM
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Oh, I think "meh" has been a distinct possibility for awhile now. And I think they will want to release SOE when it can be properly marketed and promoted, not while they're still doing shows devoted to TJT.

Yeah, I know (tone of resignation here), but I wish they would surprise us with some kind of release this summer.  I miss the old days of EPs and CD singles and 8 and 12 inches with b-sides...

You're wishing for bygone days.  B-sides are now album bonus tracks.  There hasn't been a proper, actual b-side in over 10 years.  There will the live b-sides with the fan club gift, but that's more a special release.  Why not just enjoy the tour for what it is for now?  And if not, why not find something else to enjoy until they do release something?  Waiting on an artist to release new material is a fool's game--some of my favorite artists have gone through DECADES without releasing new material.

Which bands are those?  I'd hate to see THEIR fan forums.   8)

Two of my favorite bands, Wire and Tuxedomoon, continue to crank out new work pretty much yearly.  It's nicer to feel spoiled by riches than teased with promises.

But Johnny, don't you worry about me!  I enjoyed watching a few of the tour shows, am really liking the Lanois remixes, which count as digital b-sides, it's been nice to see them doing and sounding well, and the only part of my day devoted to thinking about U2's life choices is when I read through the forums in the morning.

And yes, I sometimes feel nostalgic for bygone days.  I thought this was a nostalgia tour!   8)



Roger Waters just ended a 25-year drought, except for an opera that was already 10 years old or so, with a delightful new album this year. Peter Gabriel hasn't had an album of new material since 2002, except for his symphonic albums of his own work and covers. Compared to them, U2 are positively prolific.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on June 22, 2017, 11:19:38 AM
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Oh, I think "meh" has been a distinct possibility for awhile now. And I think they will want to release SOE when it can be properly marketed and promoted, not while they're still doing shows devoted to TJT.

Yeah, I know (tone of resignation here), but I wish they would surprise us with some kind of release this summer.  I miss the old days of EPs and CD singles and 8 and 12 inches with b-sides...

You're wishing for bygone days.  B-sides are now album bonus tracks.  There hasn't been a proper, actual b-side in over 10 years.  There will the live b-sides with the fan club gift, but that's more a special release.  Why not just enjoy the tour for what it is for now?  And if not, why not find something else to enjoy until they do release something?  Waiting on an artist to release new material is a fool's game--some of my favorite artists have gone through DECADES without releasing new material.

Which bands are those?  I'd hate to see THEIR fan forums.   8)

Two of my favorite bands, Wire and Tuxedomoon, continue to crank out new work pretty much yearly.  It's nicer to feel spoiled by riches than teased with promises.

But Johnny, don't you worry about me!  I enjoyed watching a few of the tour shows, am really liking the Lanois remixes, which count as digital b-sides, it's been nice to see them doing and sounding well, and the only part of my day devoted to thinking about U2's life choices is when I read through the forums in the morning.

And yes, I sometimes feel nostalgic for bygone days.  I thought this was a nostalgia tour!   8)



Roger Waters just ended a 25-year drought, except for an opera that was already 10 years old or so, with a delightful new album this year. Peter Gabriel hasn't had an album of new material since 2002, except for his symphonic albums of his own work and covers. Compared to them, U2 are positively prolific.

Peter Gabriel's set ahead of U2's for the Conspiracy Of Hope tour show I saw in Los Angeles in 1986 was epic.  I found some video of his and U2's performances that night on YouTube.  Time travel.

Biko
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwfpAq1Czow&feature=related (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwfpAq1Czow&feature=related)

Bad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DLOTOSUUUs&feature=related (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DLOTOSUUUs&feature=related)
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on June 22, 2017, 11:23:17 AM
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yes it sucks they wont play anything post-HTDAAB but you all are whining that they arent releasing a new album when they're on tour giving us at least 6 deep cuts that we want to hear. how about enjoy the tour and when SOE comes out we'll have new music and maybe other deep cuts to hear on tour

Hey, I only started complaining after I saw my show....

Kidding aside, I just want new music. Tours are fine, but it's one night of maybe 30 minutes of rare material as opposed to a whole new album that I can listen to over and over again.

so would you be happy with a tour that didn't feature the new songs if it meant you had a new album?

If I could switch out the pattern of album --> tour --> another album 5 years later with any scenario that'd give us a new album every couple years, I'd do it (even if it meant the tours are Greatest Hits shows).

I mean, hearing Cedarwood Road live once on opening night of the I+E Tour is not worth having to wait five years before any new material is released.

I'd quite happily not see the band tour again in return for album releases for a number of reasons.

Firstly, the most controversial and opinionated reason is that they have not produced any music in recent memory that a live performance would bring out more bombast or atmosphere, such as a Bad or a Mofo. It's all pretty formulaic these days, with songs like Elevation or Vertigo tactically having the live versions laid out on tracks and are predictable when played live (the exception would be a handful of songs from NLOTH but by the time that tour came around to my neck of the woods it had pretty much been diluted with past hits). I liken it to Elbow, another once artistically interesting band, playing their latest string laden hit to an eager crow who only attend to hear the radio hits, and not the brilliant stuff from their superior, but less commercially successful, first couple of albums.
 
Secondly, the tours have become about the spectacle as much (or more than) the music.  Popmart and Zoo TV spoke to their counterpart albums, whereas tours in later years, as great a stage set up as they were, could be interchangeable in concept with many other albums. Pretty much akin to the Rolling Stones.

Lastly, and I'll caveat by saying I obviously have no insight to how the band thinks, but in my own naÔve little world the limitations of authentically (there's another thread on this  :) ) performing a song live may also limit the amount of creativity that goes into the recorded version. Can Bono reach that note on stage or should we drop it a key, can edge replicate his most complex and kick ar*e solo live, how would the fans react to an extra guitarist on stage/Recorded guitar riff to help along? Can Larry maintain that beat and pace when there's only one of him. (Adam can look after himself).

I wont even mention that I have no desire to listen to a set list that contains a third of warhorses that I grew tired of on the Elevation tour. Whoops.

Reading back on this it does seem pretty scathing from me, which is not intentional. There's plenty of positives that I am overlooking from a live U2 concert, but given the choice I would have taken three more albums, unpredictable in nature, in exchange for the past 4 tours. Seems like a fair swap to me.

oh i completely agree. i'm ready for the touring to stop. have been since Elevation <my first tour and i saw it 3 times, loved it all> i mean i loved 360 but i+e never came close to Texas and JT just didn't move my needle.

albums>touring.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: julez728 on June 22, 2017, 02:30:00 PM
I didn't really start getting in U2 until the early 90s, so for me personally the current tour it an opportunity for me to get a glimpse of what it would have been like to see the original tour. 

With that being said, I'm really hoping for new music sooner rather than later. 
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Ultrafly on June 22, 2017, 05:25:39 PM
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With Adam confirming the new album is ready to go today, it seems like we're in new and uncharted U2 territory...or are we?  If memory serves me correctly, Zooropa came out while the band was in the midst of the Zoo TV/Zoomerang tours...

So why NOT release Songs Of Experience now?

Release it and replace the first or third sections of the tour with new songs.  I'd be very happy with that and new U2 to listen to over the summer...they'll probably wait until Christmas, though...unless the tour continues to get extended.

Because Zooropa was inspired by the ZooTV tour and thematically and sonically consistent with the material they were already highlighting.  SoE was written 30 years after The Joshua Tree so that's not the case.

Yeah.  At this point, SOE will be its own "thing", even if it sort of relates to SOI.  Zooropa was originally intended just as an EP to be released to help promote the Zoo TV tour on the European outdoor leg.

Point being, they released an album in the middle of a tour before, so why not now?  Why sit on new tunes? 

I suppose it's a sign of the position of power they've achieved that they can hold back a full album and decide when it's best to drop it, but I feel like the younger, more hungry U2 would be hellbent on getting the new stuff out into the world.

Maybe the new stuff is...meh?

You're starting with a hypothesis ("maybe the new stuff is meh?") and ignoring any facts that get in the way of that hypothesis.

1) as noted previously, the release of Zooropa is 100% inapposite  to the current situation, because that album was essentially an extension of the tour itself. 

2) It's pretty clear that they are using this tour as a way to re-ingratiate themselves to an American audience that they feel (with some validity) has written them off, due to a couple of underwhelming albums and the iTunes snafu.  They have tailored the message to be "Hey, remember this album you all loved? It's still relevant in these troubled times.  Also, here are some other songs from our back catalog that also seem sort of poignant in the age of Trump."   Suddenly dropping a new album, which they would then have to feature...what? At least 3-4 new songs from? Would totally blow up the show.  They'd have to remove either songs from the pre-JT portion, which would kill the energy and interest levels from non-hardcore fans, or make the encores almost strictly new stuff, which would do the same and undo whatever feel-good momentum that was built up from the JT portion. 

3) When to release the album is not solely a band decision.  The label has input, too, and odds are they want to use the JT tour to restore public awareness of U2, and then use that to market the new album.  They tried the sneak-attack album drop with SoI, and, well, it flopped.  They need marketing to build album awareness, and that marketing will likely take place in November in time for a holiday release, so all of the old U2 fans who went to the JT2017 shows, or heard about them, will say "Hey, let's check out the new U2 album!" and buy it around xmas time. 

4) The Joshua Tree album is currently in the Top 20 again http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/chart-beat/7833767/billboard-200-chart-moves-beauty-and-the-beast-soundtrack (http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/chart-beat/7833767/billboard-200-chart-moves-beauty-and-the-beast-soundtrack), first time since 1988.  Why on earth would U2 want to mess with that by putting another album out now?  They (and the label) want to wait until the tour bump is over so they don't cannibalize their own sales.

5) They will want to tour again, on the new album, to do it justice, not do a half-assed "oh by the way!" type thing for fans that aren't familiar with it (see #2).


That's why they won't release it now.

Zooropa was a strategic move. The band owed Island one more album in their contract, and Island was expecting it in 1995, 2years after the ZooTV finished. All of sudden, U2 at their commercial peak, BAM, surprise release a new record, *and* fulfill their Island contract so can negotiate it much earlier than expected.

A very savvy move.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on June 23, 2017, 09:53:54 AM
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With Adam confirming the new album is ready to go today, it seems like we're in new and uncharted U2 territory...or are we?  If memory serves me correctly, Zooropa came out while the band was in the midst of the Zoo TV/Zoomerang tours...

So why NOT release Songs Of Experience now?

Release it and replace the first or third sections of the tour with new songs.  I'd be very happy with that and new U2 to listen to over the summer...they'll probably wait until Christmas, though...unless the tour continues to get extended.

Because Zooropa was inspired by the ZooTV tour and thematically and sonically consistent with the material they were already highlighting.  SoE was written 30 years after The Joshua Tree so that's not the case.

Yeah.  At this point, SOE will be its own "thing", even if it sort of relates to SOI.  Zooropa was originally intended just as an EP to be released to help promote the Zoo TV tour on the European outdoor leg.

Point being, they released an album in the middle of a tour before, so why not now?  Why sit on new tunes? 

I suppose it's a sign of the position of power they've achieved that they can hold back a full album and decide when it's best to drop it, but I feel like the younger, more hungry U2 would be hellbent on getting the new stuff out into the world.

Maybe the new stuff is...meh?

You're starting with a hypothesis ("maybe the new stuff is meh?") and ignoring any facts that get in the way of that hypothesis.

1) as noted previously, the release of Zooropa is 100% inapposite  to the current situation, because that album was essentially an extension of the tour itself. 

2) It's pretty clear that they are using this tour as a way to re-ingratiate themselves to an American audience that they feel (with some validity) has written them off, due to a couple of underwhelming albums and the iTunes snafu.  They have tailored the message to be "Hey, remember this album you all loved? It's still relevant in these troubled times.  Also, here are some other songs from our back catalog that also seem sort of poignant in the age of Trump."   Suddenly dropping a new album, which they would then have to feature...what? At least 3-4 new songs from? Would totally blow up the show.  They'd have to remove either songs from the pre-JT portion, which would kill the energy and interest levels from non-hardcore fans, or make the encores almost strictly new stuff, which would do the same and undo whatever feel-good momentum that was built up from the JT portion. 

3) When to release the album is not solely a band decision.  The label has input, too, and odds are they want to use the JT tour to restore public awareness of U2, and then use that to market the new album.  They tried the sneak-attack album drop with SoI, and, well, it flopped.  They need marketing to build album awareness, and that marketing will likely take place in November in time for a holiday release, so all of the old U2 fans who went to the JT2017 shows, or heard about them, will say "Hey, let's check out the new U2 album!" and buy it around xmas time. 

4) The Joshua Tree album is currently in the Top 20 again http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/chart-beat/7833767/billboard-200-chart-moves-beauty-and-the-beast-soundtrack (http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/chart-beat/7833767/billboard-200-chart-moves-beauty-and-the-beast-soundtrack), first time since 1988.  Why on earth would U2 want to mess with that by putting another album out now?  They (and the label) want to wait until the tour bump is over so they don't cannibalize their own sales.

5) They will want to tour again, on the new album, to do it justice, not do a half-assed "oh by the way!" type thing for fans that aren't familiar with it (see #2).


That's why they won't release it now.

Zooropa was a strategic move. The band owed Island one more album in their contract, and Island was expecting it in 1995, 2years after the ZooTV finished. All of sudden, U2 at their commercial peak, BAM, surprise release a new record, *and* fulfill their Island contract so can negotiate it much earlier than expected.

A very savvy move.

This is a good reminder that U2 is a business and that every decision they make is business-related, a topic that no interview I remember with any of the members of the band ever alludes to much.

All of us hard core U2 fans are fueled by passion and curiosity.  Perhaps if we approached fandom with some business savvy, we could leverage the release of a new song or two.



Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: JTNash on June 23, 2017, 10:28:58 AM
I actually don't think U2 cares all that much about business, do they want to make money sure and I'd bet when they were younger and unsure of how long this would last they worried about it more.  But....there are many people who depend on U2 as a business to make money and I think all the people taking a piece of the pie are the ones making business decisions now and the band either says yes or no to their choices.  At this point they are a corporation with many employees
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on June 23, 2017, 11:09:06 AM
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I actually don't think U2 cares all that much about business, do they want to make money sure and I'd bet when they were younger and unsure of how long this would last they worried about it more.  But....there are many people who depend on U2 as a business to make money and I think all the people taking a piece of the pie are the ones making business decisions now and the band either says yes or no to their choices.  At this point they are a corporation with many employees

I think I have read some articles about the number of people they support (and who support them) and maybe even one of the band members talking about their responsibility to their team, so I'd say that indicates they do care about business, though I'm sure they aren't spending much time in the office.   8)

And I'm pretty sure I read about how Paul McGuinness influenced their thinking about the business side of things...

And then of course there's been a lot of coverage of their various side investments, the hotel, Edge's Malibu construction, along with tax-related things, among others.  I'd say there's an awful lot of focus on the business side of things on the band's part we never hear about too...

I guess the more relevant question in relation to this discussion chain is how their business decisions get in the way of or enhance the music-making and music-releasing processes...

And as fans, are we "investors" or what? 
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Johnny Feathers on June 23, 2017, 11:52:48 AM
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And as fans, are we "investors" or what? 

Not to take things too literally, but no.  I think "investment" means you're giving to something in the hopes of getting a greater return.  If U2 were crowd-sourcing their albums, sure.  That would be an investment.  But we are, ultimately, consumers.  We buy what they sell, or don't.

"Emotionally invested", maybe.  But I think that implies that what we put into it (our interest, our money, etc.) will result in some kind of return, when it's not really that way.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: JTNash on June 23, 2017, 12:15:24 PM
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I actually don't think U2 cares all that much about business, do they want to make money sure and I'd bet when they were younger and unsure of how long this would last they worried about it more.  But....there are many people who depend on U2 as a business to make money and I think all the people taking a piece of the pie are the ones making business decisions now and the band either says yes or no to their choices.  At this point they are a corporation with many employees

I think I have read some articles about the number of people they support (and who support them) and maybe even one of the band members talking about their responsibility to their team, so I'd say that indicates they do care about business, though I'm sure they aren't spending much time in the office.   8)

And I'm pretty sure I read about how Paul McGuinness influenced their thinking about the business side of things...

And then of course there's been a lot of coverage of their various side investments, the hotel, Edge's Malibu construction, along with tax-related things, among others.  I'd say there's an awful lot of focus on the business side of things on the band's part we never hear about too...

I guess the more relevant question in relation to this discussion chain is how their business decisions get in the way of or enhance the music-making and music-releasing processes...

And as fans, are we "investors" or what?
. I guess I mean this they are set for life with money so they don't have to work.  So I'm sure lots of things they do are contract obligations and things like that.  At the same time I don't think they do things they don't want to do.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: an tha on June 23, 2017, 12:28:45 PM
One thing you can say with some certainty is that u2 like a pound note....always have done.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Ultrafly on June 23, 2017, 01:54:16 PM
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I actually don't think U2 cares all that much about business, do they want to make money sure and I'd bet when they were younger and unsure of how long this would last they worried about it more.  But....there are many people who depend on U2 as a business to make money and I think all the people taking a piece of the pie are the ones making business decisions now and the band either says yes or no to their choices.  At this point they are a corporation with many employees

U2 are very savvy businessmen.

Since ZooTV they have changed how they work : at ZooTV they had some tight shows which weren't sellouts and had 20,000+ unsold tickets for some shows where they effectively made a loss apart from merch. Bono said at the time he was a travelling T-shirt salesman and thats how some shows broke even.

PopMart they were paid a flat guaranteed rate per show. If they sold 20,000 tickets at Miami at $30 each that was a $600k gross. Their fee was something like $1m per show, so the promoter lost a lot of money ... but U2 still got paid.

In U2Show there's also an interview with Paul McG where he says the band are very keen on achieving the best price for the most number of tickets sold. They'd rather sell 50,000 tickets at $100 than 10,000 tickets at $500. [Irrespective of any debate on current ticket prices, this is a generalisation].

They also wrote off the cost of "U23D" by investing in new 3D camera technology with the film as part of 'Proof Of Concept' - which might be a reason why there is no DVD/BR release of "U23D" as that might spoil the tax and economics of it as a unprofitable release.

They also got a bonus in their 90's Island deal by agreeing to 3 compilation releases : effectively money for nothing that they 'earnt' by re-recording six songs and borrowing 2 new songs off "Atomic Bomb". The only place they've gone "wrong" was putting out Best Of's in 1998, 2002, and 2006, thus flooding the market : they would've been wiser holding back U218 for the post NLOTH 2010-11 tour.

Anyway, they're smart business and well advised - make no mistake about it.

Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Ultrafly on June 23, 2017, 01:57:00 PM
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I actually don't think U2 cares all that much about business, do they want to make money sure and I'd bet when they were younger and unsure of how long this would last they worried about it more.  But....there are many people who depend on U2 as a business to make money and I think all the people taking a piece of the pie are the ones making business decisions now and the band either says yes or no to their choices.  At this point they are a corporation with many employees

I think I have read some articles about the number of people they support (and who support them) and maybe even one of the band members talking about their responsibility to their team, so I'd say that indicates they do care about business, though I'm sure they aren't spending much time in the office.   8)

And I'm pretty sure I read about how Paul McGuinness influenced their thinking about the business side of things...

And then of course there's been a lot of coverage of their various side investments, the hotel, Edge's Malibu construction, along with tax-related things, among others.  I'd say there's an awful lot of focus on the business side of things on the band's part we never hear about too...

I guess the more relevant question in relation to this discussion chain is how their business decisions get in the way of or enhance the music-making and music-releasing processes...

And as fans, are we "investors" or what?
. I guess I mean this they are set for life with money so they don't have to work.  So I'm sure lots of things they do are contract obligations and things like that.  At the same time I don't think they do things they don't want to do.

They're set for life and have been since about 1987 : Island couldn't afford to pay them royalties so they took stock (ending up owning a huge chunk of Island... the same Island whose stock shot up in value thanks to U2), and then when Island was sold off largely on the back of that hugely successful U2 rock band, became instant gazillionaires - not to say the proceeds of enormous touring.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: JTNash on June 23, 2017, 02:06:28 PM
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I actually don't think U2 cares all that much about business, do they want to make money sure and I'd bet when they were younger and unsure of how long this would last they worried about it more.  But....there are many people who depend on U2 as a business to make money and I think all the people taking a piece of the pie are the ones making business decisions now and the band either says yes or no to their choices.  At this point they are a corporation with many employees

I think I have read some articles about the number of people they support (and who support them) and maybe even one of the band members talking about their responsibility to their team, so I'd say that indicates they do care about business, though I'm sure they aren't spending much time in the office.   8)

And I'm pretty sure I read about how Paul McGuinness influenced their thinking about the business side of things...

And then of course there's been a lot of coverage of their various side investments, the hotel, Edge's Malibu construction, along with tax-related things, among others.  I'd say there's an awful lot of focus on the business side of things on the band's part we never hear about too...

I guess the more relevant question in relation to this discussion chain is how their business decisions get in the way of or enhance the music-making and music-releasing processes...

And as fans, are we "investors" or what?
. I guess I mean this they are set for life with money so they don't have to work.  So I'm sure lots of things they do are contract obligations and things like that.  At the same time I don't think they do things they don't want to do.

They're set for life and have been since about 1987 : Island couldn't afford to pay them royalties so they took stock (ending up owning a huge chunk of Island... the same Island whose stock shot up in value thanks to U2), and then when Island was sold off largely on the back of that hugely successful U2 rock band, became instant gazillionaires - not to say the proceeds of enormous touring.
But when they tour the promoter takes on a lot of the financial liability and at this point they make a guarantee and a percentage of ticket sales so they aren't gonna lose money. 
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on June 25, 2017, 11:29:04 AM
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"Emotionally invested", maybe.  But I think that implies that what we put into it (our interest, our money, etc.) will result in some kind of return, when it's not really that way.

Perhaps this is one of the reasons why younger, rose-colored-glasses-wearing U2 fans struggle so much with (what they perceive as) our "negativity"? We have an emotional investment in this band that simply cannot be understood unless you've lived the majority of your life with Bono singing the soundtrack.

I have loved this band since I was 10. When I bite my nails or gripe, it's not negativity, it's caring a lot.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Neil Young, man! on June 25, 2017, 03:45:42 PM
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"Emotionally invested", maybe.  But I think that implies that what we put into it (our interest, our money, etc.) will result in some kind of return, when it's not really that way.

Perhaps this is one of the reasons why younger, rose-colored-glasses-wearing U2 fans struggle so much with (what they perceive as) our "negativity"? We have an emotional investment in this band that simply cannot be understood unless you've lived the majority of your life with Bono singing the soundtrack.

I have loved this band since I was 10. When I bite my nails or gripe, it's not negativity, it's caring a lot.
Spot on for me. And at this point, it matters less that U2 has commercial success than critical acclaim. They are the best band, so what if they are the most popular.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: an tha on June 25, 2017, 03:54:54 PM
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"Emotionally invested", maybe.  But I think that implies that what we put into it (our interest, our money, etc.) will result in some kind of return, when it's not really that way.

Perhaps this is one of the reasons why younger, rose-colored-glasses-wearing U2 fans struggle so much with (what they perceive as) our "negativity"? We have an emotional investment in this band that simply cannot be understood unless you've lived the majority of your life with Bono singing the soundtrack.

I have loved this band since I was 10. When I bite my nails or gripe, it's not negativity, it's caring a lot.
Spot on for me. And at this point, it matters less that U2 has commercial success than critical acclaim. They are the best band, so what if they are the most popular.

For my money their desire to be the most popular has impacted really badly on their claims to be the 'best' (as incredibly subjective as that is of course)
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Blueyedboy on June 25, 2017, 09:30:27 PM
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"Emotionally invested", maybe.  But I think that implies that what we put into it (our interest, our money, etc.) will result in some kind of return, when it's not really that way.

Perhaps this is one of the reasons why younger, rose-colored-glasses-wearing U2 fans struggle so much with (what they perceive as) our "negativity"? We have an emotional investment in this band that simply cannot be understood unless you've lived the majority of your life with Bono singing the soundtrack.

I have loved this band since I was 10. When I bite my nails or gripe, it's not negativity, it's caring a lot.
Spot on for me. And at this point, it matters less that U2 has commercial success than critical acclaim. They are the best band, so what if they are the most popular.

Well that depends on their end game, are they making music for their fans or are they making it for their customers.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on June 25, 2017, 10:11:07 PM
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"Emotionally invested", maybe.  But I think that implies that what we put into it (our interest, our money, etc.) will result in some kind of return, when it's not really that way.

Perhaps this is one of the reasons why younger, rose-colored-glasses-wearing U2 fans struggle so much with (what they perceive as) our "negativity"? We have an emotional investment in this band that simply cannot be understood unless you've lived the majority of your life with Bono singing the soundtrack.

I have loved this band since I was 10. When I bite my nails or gripe, it's not negativity, it's caring a lot.
Spot on for me. And at this point, it matters less that U2 has commercial success than critical acclaim. They are the best band, so what if they are the most popular.

Well that depends on their end game, are they making music for their fans or are they making it for their customers.

They need to be making it for only one audience. Themselves.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Blueyedboy on June 25, 2017, 10:37:23 PM
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"Emotionally invested", maybe.  But I think that implies that what we put into it (our interest, our money, etc.) will result in some kind of return, when it's not really that way.

Perhaps this is one of the reasons why younger, rose-colored-glasses-wearing U2 fans struggle so much with (what they perceive as) our "negativity"? We have an emotional investment in this band that simply cannot be understood unless you've lived the majority of your life with Bono singing the soundtrack.

I have loved this band since I was 10. When I bite my nails or gripe, it's not negativity, it's caring a lot.
Spot on for me. And at this point, it matters less that U2 has commercial success than critical acclaim. They are the best band, so what if they are the most popular.

Well that depends on their end game, are they making music for their fans or are they making it for their customers.

They need to be making it for only one audience. Themselves.

Unfortunately that audience doesn't fill stadiums.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on June 25, 2017, 11:23:06 PM
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"Emotionally invested", maybe.  But I think that implies that what we put into it (our interest, our money, etc.) will result in some kind of return, when it's not really that way.

Perhaps this is one of the reasons why younger, rose-colored-glasses-wearing U2 fans struggle so much with (what they perceive as) our "negativity"? We have an emotional investment in this band that simply cannot be understood unless you've lived the majority of your life with Bono singing the soundtrack.

I have loved this band since I was 10. When I bite my nails or gripe, it's not negativity, it's caring a lot.
Spot on for me. And at this point, it matters less that U2 has commercial success than critical acclaim. They are the best band, so what if they are the most popular.

Well that depends on their end game, are they making music for their fans or are they making it for their customers.

They need to be making it for only one audience. Themselves.

Unfortunately that audience doesn't fill stadiums.

which is why they should retire from touring. i'm very much in favor of more bands quitting the road and just releasing albums.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: WookieeWarrior10 on June 25, 2017, 11:26:19 PM
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"Emotionally invested", maybe.  But I think that implies that what we put into it (our interest, our money, etc.) will result in some kind of return, when it's not really that way.

Perhaps this is one of the reasons why younger, rose-colored-glasses-wearing U2 fans struggle so much with (what they perceive as) our "negativity"? We have an emotional investment in this band that simply cannot be understood unless you've lived the majority of your life with Bono singing the soundtrack.

I have loved this band since I was 10. When I bite my nails or gripe, it's not negativity, it's caring a lot.
Spot on for me. And at this point, it matters less that U2 has commercial success than critical acclaim. They are the best band, so what if they are the most popular.

Well that depends on their end game, are they making music for their fans or are they making it for their customers.

They need to be making it for only one audience. Themselves.

Unfortunately that audience doesn't fill stadiums.

which is why they should retire from touring. i'm very much in favor of more bands quitting the road and just releasing albums.
I don't think U2 need to go to that extreme... why not just play arenas or even small clubs? Assuming they want to continue touring, that is the route to go.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on June 25, 2017, 11:39:44 PM
i want them to make music they want to make for themselves. i'm tired of the chart chasing. yes the arenas are the ideal venue for ANY big band to play, but they will never do a clubs-only tour.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on June 25, 2017, 11:50:10 PM
I don't think U2's ambition has changed much since their early days.  They always wanted to reach as many people as possible.  They always wanted to be "grand" and I can't see them ever wanting to be anything else.

How this ambition has translated into musical form is another matter. 

I don't mind if they chase pop relevancy as long as they also continue to produce arty stuff too, the occasional soundtrack or Passengers or Captive, etc.



Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Blueyedboy on June 26, 2017, 12:06:40 AM
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i want them to make music they want to make for themselves. i'm tired of the chart chasing. yes the arenas are the ideal venue for ANY big band to play, but they will never do a clubs-only tour.

Who's to say that we'd like the music they produce for themselves? It's only Passengers where you could say with a level confidence that the band have not chased the zeitgeist. All other periods they have looked at what was around them and made music to suit the times.
I maintain that for much of their career they have been musical chameleons, blending into their surroundings and outdoing their peers, which is great when those peers are doing something interesting, not so much when they choose to compete with MOR and Pop music for chart relevance.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: an tha on June 26, 2017, 01:02:07 AM
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i want them to make music they want to make for themselves. i'm tired of the chart chasing. yes the arenas are the ideal venue for ANY big band to play, but they will never do a clubs-only tour.

They have an opportunity to go down that road when their deal with livenation ends.......thing is what is the betting livenation wave another massive amount of cash at them to be at their beck and call for another 5 years or so and u2 take it and then of course have to generate enough income to make the deal work....

Would be great to see these men who are made for life many times over resist the money and say no we are gonna see out our career for arts sake not money.....
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Neil Young, man! on June 26, 2017, 12:31:09 PM
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i want them to make music they want to make for themselves. i'm tired of the chart chasing. yes the arenas are the ideal venue for ANY big band to play, but they will never do a clubs-only tour.

They have an opportunity to go down that road when their deal with livenation ends.......thing is what is the betting livenation wave another massive amount of cash at them to be at their beck and call for another 5 years or so and u2 take it and then of course have to generate enough income to make the deal work....

Would be great to see these men who are made for life many times over resist the money and say no we are gonna see out our career for arts sake not money.....
Amen. That would be interesting, and...badass.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on June 27, 2017, 11:09:19 PM
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i want them to make music they want to make for themselves. i'm tired of the chart chasing. yes the arenas are the ideal venue for ANY big band to play, but they will never do a clubs-only tour.

They have an opportunity to go down that road when their deal with livenation ends.......thing is what is the betting livenation wave another massive amount of cash at them to be at their beck and call for another 5 years or so and u2 take it and then of course have to generate enough income to make the deal work....

Would be great to see these men who are made for life many times over resist the money and say no we are gonna see out our career for arts sake not money.....

What would this look/sound like?

Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Blueyedboy on June 27, 2017, 11:46:01 PM
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i want them to make music they want to make for themselves. i'm tired of the chart chasing. yes the arenas are the ideal venue for ANY big band to play, but they will never do a clubs-only tour.

They have an opportunity to go down that road when their deal with livenation ends.......thing is what is the betting livenation wave another massive amount of cash at them to be at their beck and call for another 5 years or so and u2 take it and then of course have to generate enough income to make the deal work....

Would be great to see these men who are made for life many times over resist the money and say no we are gonna see out our career for arts sake not money.....

What would this look/sound like?

Pretty much like hell freezing over.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on June 27, 2017, 11:50:32 PM
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i want them to make music they want to make for themselves. i'm tired of the chart chasing. yes the arenas are the ideal venue for ANY big band to play, but they will never do a clubs-only tour.

They have an opportunity to go down that road when their deal with livenation ends.......thing is what is the betting livenation wave another massive amount of cash at them to be at their beck and call for another 5 years or so and u2 take it and then of course have to generate enough income to make the deal work....

Would be great to see these men who are made for life many times over resist the money and say no we are gonna see out our career for arts sake not money.....

What would this look/sound like?

Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: an tha on June 28, 2017, 12:47:39 AM
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i want them to make music they want to make for themselves. i'm tired of the chart chasing. yes the arenas are the ideal venue for ANY big band to play, but they will never do a clubs-only tour.

They have an opportunity to go down that road when their deal with livenation ends.......thing is what is the betting livenation wave another massive amount of cash at them to be at their beck and call for another 5 years or so and u2 take it and then of course have to generate enough income to make the deal work....

Would be great to see these men who are made for life many times over resist the money and say no we are gonna see out our career for arts sake not money.....

What would this look/sound like?

Well if you'll indulge me and let me play 'fantasy u2' i'll try and articulate it....

Firstly it would involve u2 setting up their own little label to release stuff.....that would be stuff as and when reasonably regularly and certainly away from the big album, big tour, long break and repeat cycle.

Singles dropped as and when, an ep here and there....some live in session stuff as and when but ideally reasonably regularly.....clear out the vaults maybe and throw stuff out there......as and when an album comes along throw it out there and if they feel like knocking another out 6 months later - just do so...

In terms of shows - 'cut the crap and show us your willies' we've seen all the big screens and elaborate stages.....4 men on stage with their songs in rooms where they can see the whites of their audiences eyes and their audiences can see the whites of theirs.......get rid of all the pre recorded stuff and the hidden augmentation - if it is needed (especially on experimental stuff) have it happening on stage with additional musicians etc...if a track needs a beat laying down ala Howie B on Pop then have that up on stage as part of the show.

Gig as and when (as much as possible) play surprise gigs announced at the last minute....go out for 6 months and release recordings of the shows through their website (one someone close to them looks after not the corporate run thing livenation built for them).....

Sound? Well ideally for me no more MOR pop rock, an edgier, more experimental sound would be more to my taste/a less commercial sound......the freedom they would have away from livenation and all that entails would allow them to try different things, be more daring sonically and lyrically - and hey if they want to release some Pop songs as well so be it........if it isn't all we are going to get for 4 years even i could live with it.

At the very least just sounding unique again would do for me.

A band with the shackles off would in my view be a better band - freedom has a scent like the thoughts off the top of an tha's head.....
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Saint1322 on June 28, 2017, 07:39:04 AM
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i want them to make music they want to make for themselves. i'm tired of the chart chasing. yes the arenas are the ideal venue for ANY big band to play, but they will never do a clubs-only tour.

They have an opportunity to go down that road when their deal with livenation ends.......thing is what is the betting livenation wave another massive amount of cash at them to be at their beck and call for another 5 years or so and u2 take it and then of course have to generate enough income to make the deal work....

Would be great to see these men who are made for life many times over resist the money and say no we are gonna see out our career for arts sake not money.....

What would this look/sound like?

Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band.

To be fair, Beatles shows had become so chaotic and loud that no one was paying any attention to the music, and George was scared of the KKK and refused to tour parts of America. When you put it in that context, the decision to stay in the studio and work makes more sense. Secondly, in those days, bands competed in the studio, not on the road. Visual shows were still years away, and bands like The Beatles, Stones and Beach Boys were trying to out-do and out-innovate each other on albums.

These days, the road and appearances are where bands get heard. U2 have no desire to spend three years in a studio and release albums that no one will hear. 
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on June 28, 2017, 08:41:44 AM
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i want them to make music they want to make for themselves. i'm tired of the chart chasing. yes the arenas are the ideal venue for ANY big band to play, but they will never do a clubs-only tour.

They have an opportunity to go down that road when their deal with livenation ends.......thing is what is the betting livenation wave another massive amount of cash at them to be at their beck and call for another 5 years or so and u2 take it and then of course have to generate enough income to make the deal work....

Would be great to see these men who are made for life many times over resist the money and say no we are gonna see out our career for arts sake not money.....

What would this look/sound like?

Well if you'll indulge me and let me play 'fantasy u2' i'll try and articulate it....

Firstly it would involve u2 setting up their own little label to release stuff.....that would be stuff as and when reasonably regularly and certainly away from the big album, big tour, long break and repeat cycle.

Singles dropped as and when, an ep here and there....some live in session stuff as and when but ideally reasonably regularly.....clear out the vaults maybe and throw stuff out there......as and when an album comes along throw it out there and if they feel like knocking another out 6 months later - just do so...

In terms of shows - 'cut the crap and show us your willies' we've seen all the big screens and elaborate stages.....4 men on stage with their songs in rooms where they can see the whites of their audiences eyes and their audiences can see the whites of theirs.......get rid of all the pre recorded stuff and the hidden augmentation - if it is needed (especially on experimental stuff) have it happening on stage with additional musicians etc...if a track needs a beat laying down ala Howie B on Pop then have that up on stage as part of the show.

Gig as and when (as much as possible) play surprise gigs announced at the last minute....go out for 6 months and release recordings of the shows through their website (one someone close to them looks after not the corporate run thing livenation built for them).....

Sound? Well ideally for me no more MOR pop rock, an edgier, more experimental sound would be more to my taste/a less commercial sound......the freedom they would have away from livenation and all that entails would allow them to try different things, be more daring sonically and lyrically - and hey if they want to release some Pop songs as well so be it........if it isn't all we are going to get for 4 years even i could live with it.

At the very least just sounding unique again would do for me.

A band with the shackles off would in my view be a better band - freedom has a scent like the thoughts off the top of an tha's head.....

These are some great wishes, but I just don't know how many will come true.  Old dog, new tricks, etc.

Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: an tha on June 28, 2017, 10:21:07 AM
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i want them to make music they want to make for themselves. i'm tired of the chart chasing. yes the arenas are the ideal venue for ANY big band to play, but they will never do a clubs-only tour.

They have an opportunity to go down that road when their deal with livenation ends.......thing is what is the betting livenation wave another massive amount of cash at them to be at their beck and call for another 5 years or so and u2 take it and then of course have to generate enough income to make the deal work....

Would be great to see these men who are made for life many times over resist the money and say no we are gonna see out our career for arts sake not money.....

What would this look/sound like?

Well if you'll indulge me and let me play 'fantasy u2' i'll try and articulate it....

Firstly it would involve u2 setting up their own little label to release stuff.....that would be stuff as and when reasonably regularly and certainly away from the big album, big tour, long break and repeat cycle.

Singles dropped as and when, an ep here and there....some live in session stuff as and when but ideally reasonably regularly.....clear out the vaults maybe and throw stuff out there......as and when an album comes along throw it out there and if they feel like knocking another out 6 months later - just do so...

In terms of shows - 'cut the crap and show us your willies' we've seen all the big screens and elaborate stages.....4 men on stage with their songs in rooms where they can see the whites of their audiences eyes and their audiences can see the whites of theirs.......get rid of all the pre recorded stuff and the hidden augmentation - if it is needed (especially on experimental stuff) have it happening on stage with additional musicians etc...if a track needs a beat laying down ala Howie B on Pop then have that up on stage as part of the show.

Gig as and when (as much as possible) play surprise gigs announced at the last minute....go out for 6 months and release recordings of the shows through their website (one someone close to them looks after not the corporate run thing livenation built for them).....

Sound? Well ideally for me no more MOR pop rock, an edgier, more experimental sound would be more to my taste/a less commercial sound......the freedom they would have away from livenation and all that entails would allow them to try different things, be more daring sonically and lyrically - and hey if they want to release some Pop songs as well so be it........if it isn't all we are going to get for 4 years even i could live with it.

At the very least just sounding unique again would do for me.

A band with the shackles off would in my view be a better band - freedom has a scent like the thoughts off the top of an tha's head.....

These are some great wishes, but I just don't know how many will come true.  Old dog, new tricks, etc.

oh i am under no illusions....my guess would be none of them!
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: il_capo on June 28, 2017, 12:20:23 PM
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i want them to make music they want to make for themselves. i'm tired of the chart chasing. yes the arenas are the ideal venue for ANY big band to play, but they will never do a clubs-only tour.

They have an opportunity to go down that road when their deal with livenation ends.......thing is what is the betting livenation wave another massive amount of cash at them to be at their beck and call for another 5 years or so and u2 take it and then of course have to generate enough income to make the deal work....

Would be great to see these men who are made for life many times over resist the money and say no we are gonna see out our career for arts sake not money.....

What would this look/sound like?

Well if you'll indulge me and let me play 'fantasy u2' i'll try and articulate it....

Firstly it would involve u2 setting up their own little label to release stuff.....that would be stuff as and when reasonably regularly and certainly away from the big album, big tour, long break and repeat cycle.

Singles dropped as and when, an ep here and there....some live in session stuff as and when but ideally reasonably regularly.....clear out the vaults maybe and throw stuff out there......as and when an album comes along throw it out there and if they feel like knocking another out 6 months later - just do so...

In terms of shows - 'cut the crap and show us your willies' we've seen all the big screens and elaborate stages.....4 men on stage with their songs in rooms where they can see the whites of their audiences eyes and their audiences can see the whites of theirs.......get rid of all the pre recorded stuff and the hidden augmentation - if it is needed (especially on experimental stuff) have it happening on stage with additional musicians etc...if a track needs a beat laying down ala Howie B on Pop then have that up on stage as part of the show.

Gig as and when (as much as possible) play surprise gigs announced at the last minute....go out for 6 months and release recordings of the shows through their website (one someone close to them looks after not the corporate run thing livenation built for them).....

Sound? Well ideally for me no more MOR pop rock, an edgier, more experimental sound would be more to my taste/a less commercial sound......the freedom they would have away from livenation and all that entails would allow them to try different things, be more daring sonically and lyrically - and hey if they want to release some Pop songs as well so be it........if it isn't all we are going to get for 4 years even i could live with it.

At the very least just sounding unique again would do for me.

A band with the shackles off would in my view be a better band - freedom has a scent like the thoughts off the top of an tha's head.....

These are some great wishes, but I just don't know how many will come true.  Old dog, new tricks, etc.

oh i am under no illusions....my guess would be none of them!

Alas you're probably right.  I think most of us get to their age and having built up a career or business, or whatever, think "better play it safe - we're too old to risk it anymore".  They and their families have a certain lifestyle they want to maintain and then there's the charities and causes they want to carry on donating to, and hence doing things in a way that will risk the revenue stream won't attract them.  And there must be dozens of managers and commercial agents telling them there is no other way than this Live Nation thing.  For at least 30 years U2 has been a huge business, not just a rock band, as we've discussed many times before.

I was watching that new song they've been playing on the tour on the Kimmel TV show and it sounded so much better - it's the sort of song that works far better in a small club than in a stadium.  Then again most songs work better in a small venue.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: shineinthesummernight on June 28, 2017, 07:51:51 PM
"Freedom has a scent like the thoughts off the top of an tha's head." 8)  Good lord, boy, you are clever.  I mean that sincerely.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: an tha on June 29, 2017, 12:50:04 AM
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i want them to make music they want to make for themselves. i'm tired of the chart chasing. yes the arenas are the ideal venue for ANY big band to play, but they will never do a clubs-only tour.

They have an opportunity to go down that road when their deal with livenation ends.......thing is what is the betting livenation wave another massive amount of cash at them to be at their beck and call for another 5 years or so and u2 take it and then of course have to generate enough income to make the deal work....

Would be great to see these men who are made for life many times over resist the money and say no we are gonna see out our career for arts sake not money.....

What would this look/sound like?

Well if you'll indulge me and let me play 'fantasy u2' i'll try and articulate it....

Firstly it would involve u2 setting up their own little label to release stuff.....that would be stuff as and when reasonably regularly and certainly away from the big album, big tour, long break and repeat cycle.

Singles dropped as and when, an ep here and there....some live in session stuff as and when but ideally reasonably regularly.....clear out the vaults maybe and throw stuff out there......as and when an album comes along throw it out there and if they feel like knocking another out 6 months later - just do so...

In terms of shows - 'cut the crap and show us your willies' we've seen all the big screens and elaborate stages.....4 men on stage with their songs in rooms where they can see the whites of their audiences eyes and their audiences can see the whites of theirs.......get rid of all the pre recorded stuff and the hidden augmentation - if it is needed (especially on experimental stuff) have it happening on stage with additional musicians etc...if a track needs a beat laying down ala Howie B on Pop then have that up on stage as part of the show.

Gig as and when (as much as possible) play surprise gigs announced at the last minute....go out for 6 months and release recordings of the shows through their website (one someone close to them looks after not the corporate run thing livenation built for them).....

Sound? Well ideally for me no more MOR pop rock, an edgier, more experimental sound would be more to my taste/a less commercial sound......the freedom they would have away from livenation and all that entails would allow them to try different things, be more daring sonically and lyrically - and hey if they want to release some Pop songs as well so be it........if it isn't all we are going to get for 4 years even i could live with it.

At the very least just sounding unique again would do for me.

A band with the shackles off would in my view be a better band - freedom has a scent like the thoughts off the top of an tha's head.....

These are some great wishes, but I just don't know how many will come true.  Old dog, new tricks, etc.

oh i am under no illusions....my guess would be none of them!

Alas you're probably right.  I think most of us get to their age and having built up a career or business, or whatever, think "better play it safe - we're too old to risk it anymore".  They and their families have a certain lifestyle they want to maintain and then there's the charities and causes they want to carry on donating to, and hence doing things in a way that will risk the revenue stream won't attract them.  And there must be dozens of managers and commercial agents telling them there is no other way than this Live Nation thing.  For at least 30 years U2 has been a huge business, not just a rock band, as we've discussed many times before.

I was watching that new song they've been playing on the tour on the Kimmel TV show and it sounded so much better - it's the sort of song that works far better in a small club than in a stadium.  Then again most songs work better in a small venue.

Hard to argue with that.....i might take issue with the money part - how much more could possibly be needed? But generally i make you right there.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: an tha on June 29, 2017, 12:51:03 AM
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"Freedom has a scent like the thoughts off the top of an tha's head." 8)  Good lord, boy, you are clever.  I mean that sincerely.

Ha....i wish i was or some might say I think I am!...
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on June 30, 2017, 09:32:21 AM
It seems more likely that the band has and IS making exactly the music they want to make both as art forms and forms of commerce.

It's also possible they have and are making the music they are ABLE to make.  This could imply numerous things: because of their wealth and status as a band, they're able to tinker in studios for endless periods of time as they chase the sound they're looking for. 

Because of their wealth and status, they're able to record an entire album, then sit on it instead of releasing because so much time has passed that an entirely new set of creative ideas arrives (or doubts about the previous set). 

Or they're not able to make the type of music they made in the past and which some fans crave to hear due to age, changed tastes, self-perception, chasing relevancy, and any number of other factors. 

Another possibility is that they're making the music they want to make, think they're being innovative or relevant or whatever, and some of those sounds just aren't landing with some of their fans. 

For me, unfortunately, albums from Bomb on, for example, have songs I just can't listen to, and that never happened before even though every previous album had a few songs I preferred less than others.

The "experimental" U2 is the one I'm most drawn to...but any given phase or project that falls into that category also contained other impulses, i.e. Babyface on Zooropa, or put the best foot forward, i.e. the songs that made the final Joshua Tree album vs. the b-sides.

The "experimental" or innovative impulses seem to be represented less and less on albums post-POP...but they are still there.

Which should give us hope that the band hasn't lost touch with those impulses.

Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on June 30, 2017, 11:28:38 AM
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The "experimental" or innovative impulses seem to be represented less and less on albums post-POP...but they are still there.

I think NLOTH could've been the album people like us were longing for. For my part, Being Born and Cedars are two of the most interesting songs in the post-Pop period (as is Breathe, although I personally don't like it even though I appreciate it for its unconventional structure). Then on SOI we've got songs like SLABT and The Troubles, which are also among the band's best post-Pop output.

The problem, of course, is that the version of U2 that people experience in a concert setting is the U2 that sees its most experimental stuff as filler that either gets ignored or dropped from the set while churning out Beautiful Day and IWF for the zillionth time.

And the casual fans eat it up, so you can't really blame the band for serving up Big Macs instead of steak.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: riffraff on June 30, 2017, 11:31:42 AM
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The "experimental" or innovative impulses seem to be represented less and less on albums post-POP...but they are still there.

I think NLOTH could've been the album people like us were longing for. For my part, Being Born and Cedars are two of the most interesting songs in the post-Pop period (as is Breathe, although I personally don't like it even though I appreciate it for its unconventional structure). Then on SOI we've got songs like SLABT and The Troubles, which are also among the band's best post-Pop output.

The problem, of course, is that the version of U2 that people experience in a concert setting is the U2 that sees its most experimental stuff as filler that either gets ignored or dropped from the set while churning out Beautiful Day and IWF for the zillionth time.

And the casual fans eat it up, so you can't really blame the band for serving up Big Macs instead of steak.
So, how do we get them to offer us a big, RARE, juicy steak?
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on June 30, 2017, 11:37:06 AM
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The "experimental" or innovative impulses seem to be represented less and less on albums post-POP...but they are still there.

I think NLOTH could've been the album people like us were longing for. For my part, Being Born and Cedars are two of the most interesting songs in the post-Pop period (as is Breathe, although I personally don't like it even though I appreciate it for its unconventional structure). Then on SOI we've got songs like SLABT and The Troubles, which are also among the band's best post-Pop output.

The problem, of course, is that the version of U2 that people experience in a concert setting is the U2 that sees its most experimental stuff as filler that either gets ignored or dropped from the set while churning out Beautiful Day and IWF for the zillionth time.

And the casual fans eat it up, so you can't really blame the band for serving up Big Macs instead of steak.
So, how do we get them to offer us a big, RARE, juicy steak?

They will never give us an album of tracks like COL, BB, or The Troubles, because they are driven by ticket sales and not by actual albums. The only way to play their experimental stuff live is to do so in a smaller venue like a theatre, and the demand on the part of the public to hear about moles digging in holes is just too large to go that route.

So the band chooses their album tracks with an eye to the massive crowd they'll be playing to once they tour. That's why songs like The Miracle and Crazy Tonight make the cut while songs like Soon don't (and why others, like SLABT, are seen by the band as filler).
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: trevgreg on June 30, 2017, 02:11:20 PM
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It seems more likely that the band has and IS making exactly the music they want to make both as art forms and forms of commerce.

It's also possible they have and are making the music they are ABLE to make.  This could imply numerous things: because of their wealth and status as a band, they're able to tinker in studios for endless periods of time as they chase the sound they're looking for. 

Because of their wealth and status, they're able to record an entire album, then sit on it instead of releasing because so much time has passed that an entirely new set of creative ideas arrives (or doubts about the previous set). 

Or they're not able to make the type of music they made in the past and which some fans crave to hear due to age, changed tastes, self-perception, chasing relevancy, and any number of other factors. 

Another possibility is that they're making the music they want to make, think they're being innovative or relevant or whatever, and some of those sounds just aren't landing with some of their fans. 

For me, unfortunately, albums from Bomb on, for example, have songs I just can't listen to, and that never happened before even though every previous album had a few songs I preferred less than others.

The "experimental" U2 is the one I'm most drawn to...but any given phase or project that falls into that category also contained other impulses, i.e. Babyface on Zooropa, or put the best foot forward, i.e. the songs that made the final Joshua Tree album vs. the b-sides.

The "experimental" or innovative impulses seem to be represented less and less on albums post-POP...but they are still there.

Which should give us hope that the band hasn't lost touch with those impulses.

I suspect there a lot of influences that go into everything they decide or end up completing. Personally, I donít think that their actual process of writing is too different from what it was in the past. By all accounts, they still jam and work things out in the studio over time.

Could they prioritize certain songs over others? Definitely, but I donít think they go into songs and say ďOkay, this needs to be a hit, so start playing a bar chord Edge and Iíll write what I think young kids want to hear.Ē Same would go if they went into a song and said, ďThis has to be an Eno-soundscape in D minor. No guitar, since this is Ďexperimentalí and all.Ē If they did that, then itíd be pretty obvious in the results. You can try to write songs that way, but most of the time, it just wouldnít work. For the most part, it seems like they try to come up with ideas and just go with where it takes them.

Unless people really have a go at writing a song at some point in their lives, itís not something that could be easily understood. Iím not pretending to either despite attempts to do so myself over the years (and likely terrible ones, yes, haha). At the end of the day, you get some idea and roll with it until you have a complete song and are more or less happy with it. Then when you get a group of them that youíre comfortable with, you release them to the world, and some songs will hit with certain people and some wonít.

That doesnít mean you have to like everything someone does, but nothing anyone writes is ever going to hit with 100% of the people either. In the end, you just try to write a good song and do your best in making decisions about it. Personally, I donít need it to sound like ďIn RainbowsĒ or be ambient-based just to like it automatically for the "experimental" or hipster cred. Just like I wonít frown on something just because it has a guitar riff on it. Itís either a good song or itís not.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on June 30, 2017, 05:59:34 PM
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The "experimental" or innovative impulses seem to be represented less and less on albums post-POP...but they are still there.

I think NLOTH could've been the album people like us were longing for. For my part, Being Born and Cedars are two of the most interesting songs in the post-Pop period (as is Breathe, although I personally don't like it even though I appreciate it for its unconventional structure). Then on SOI we've got songs like SLABT and The Troubles, which are also among the band's best post-Pop output.

The problem, of course, is that the version of U2 that people experience in a concert setting is the U2 that sees its most experimental stuff as filler that either gets ignored or dropped from the set while churning out Beautiful Day and IWF for the zillionth time.

And the casual fans eat it up, so you can't really blame the band for serving up Big Macs instead of steak.

They're just too successful to be able to do anything less than grand.  I'd love a symphony hall concert with a trippy light show and only their ambient/experimental stuff, but it will never happen.  They've never wanted to project anything but their "rock and roll" identity.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Blueyedboy on July 01, 2017, 02:17:41 AM
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The "experimental" or innovative impulses seem to be represented less and less on albums post-POP...but they are still there.

I think NLOTH could've been the album people like us were longing for. For my part, Being Born and Cedars are two of the most interesting songs in the post-Pop period (as is Breathe, although I personally don't like it even though I appreciate it for its unconventional structure). Then on SOI we've got songs like SLABT and The Troubles, which are also among the band's best post-Pop output.

The problem, of course, is that the version of U2 that people experience in a concert setting is the U2 that sees its most experimental stuff as filler that either gets ignored or dropped from the set while churning out Beautiful Day and IWF for the zillionth time.

And the casual fans eat it up, so you can't really blame the band for serving up Big Macs instead of steak.

They're just too successful to be able to do anything less than grand.  I'd love a symphony hall concert with a trippy light show and only their ambient/experimental stuff, but it will never happen.  They've never wanted to project anything but their "rock and roll" identity.

They're just to much of a brand now, they are able to guarantee promoters and record companies that they will shift xxx million units and sell out venues by staying true to the blueprint. Bono also needs to protect his image if he's to continue dealing with world leaders.

As Exile said, I think NLOTH is as leftfeild as it gets, but it should have been a larger detour from the norm than it was.

I still think that the band can make a great album, but doubt they'll release their shackles enough to do so. Is no coincidence that their more interesting material comes outside of U2 albums, Passengers and MDH being a couple of examples.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on July 01, 2017, 01:01:06 PM
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As Exile said, I think NLOTH is as leftfeild as it gets, but it should have been a larger detour from the norm than it was.

I still think that the band can make a great album, but doubt they'll release their shackles enough to do so.

Can you imagine the U2 of the early '80s hearing this about their future selves? I mean, I am glad that Bono is writing songs about having dialogues with his younger self, but I just hope this imaginary young Bono talks some sense into the present one.

Unbind yourselves, U2! You've nothing left to prove, and you're way more interesting than you're allowing yourselves to be.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Saint1322 on July 03, 2017, 12:30:17 PM
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The "experimental" or innovative impulses seem to be represented less and less on albums post-POP...but they are still there.

I think NLOTH could've been the album people like us were longing for. For my part, Being Born and Cedars are two of the most interesting songs in the post-Pop period (as is Breathe, although I personally don't like it even though I appreciate it for its unconventional structure). Then on SOI we've got songs like SLABT and The Troubles, which are also among the band's best post-Pop output.

The problem, of course, is that the version of U2 that people experience in a concert setting is the U2 that sees its most experimental stuff as filler that either gets ignored or dropped from the set while churning out Beautiful Day and IWF for the zillionth time.

And the casual fans eat it up, so you can't really blame the band for serving up Big Macs instead of steak.

They're just too successful to be able to do anything less than grand.  I'd love a symphony hall concert with a trippy light show and only their ambient/experimental stuff, but it will never happen.  They've never wanted to project anything but their "rock and roll" identity.

They're just to much of a brand now, they are able to guarantee promoters and record companies that they will shift xxx million units and sell out venues by staying true to the blueprint. Bono also needs to protect his image if he's to continue dealing with world leaders.

As Exile said, I think NLOTH is as leftfeild as it gets, but it should have been a larger detour from the norm than it was.

I still think that the band can make a great album, but doubt they'll release their shackles enough to do so. Is no coincidence that their more interesting material comes outside of U2 albums, Passengers and MDH being a couple of examples.

They've shown a willingness to go against the grain before, so why would you think they wouldn't do it again if inspiration struck? This band has re-invented itself at least three times over the years. As brilliant as they are, four humans can only have so many ideas. Some bands go their whole career with never changing their sound or experimenting, and some do so for the worse. How many times can you realistically expect someone to 'dream it all up' again? Not everyone is David Bowie, and not all of Bowie's turns were for the good.

Maybe we need to take our expectations down a peg or two.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on July 03, 2017, 12:45:49 PM
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The "experimental" or innovative impulses seem to be represented less and less on albums post-POP...but they are still there.

I think NLOTH could've been the album people like us were longing for. For my part, Being Born and Cedars are two of the most interesting songs in the post-Pop period (as is Breathe, although I personally don't like it even though I appreciate it for its unconventional structure). Then on SOI we've got songs like SLABT and The Troubles, which are also among the band's best post-Pop output.

The problem, of course, is that the version of U2 that people experience in a concert setting is the U2 that sees its most experimental stuff as filler that either gets ignored or dropped from the set while churning out Beautiful Day and IWF for the zillionth time.

And the casual fans eat it up, so you can't really blame the band for serving up Big Macs instead of steak.

They're just too successful to be able to do anything less than grand.  I'd love a symphony hall concert with a trippy light show and only their ambient/experimental stuff, but it will never happen.  They've never wanted to project anything but their "rock and roll" identity.

They're just to much of a brand now, they are able to guarantee promoters and record companies that they will shift xxx million units and sell out venues by staying true to the blueprint. Bono also needs to protect his image if he's to continue dealing with world leaders.

As Exile said, I think NLOTH is as leftfeild as it gets, but it should have been a larger detour from the norm than it was.

I still think that the band can make a great album, but doubt they'll release their shackles enough to do so. Is no coincidence that their more interesting material comes outside of U2 albums, Passengers and MDH being a couple of examples.

Maybe we need to take our expectations down a peg or two.

Not to put words in the poster's mouth, but I would be surprised if Bono's attitude were, "Hey, cut us some slack! We've been doing this a long time and ideas are hard. If you stop expecting so much of us, then we will stop letting you down."

U2 creates high expectations. With every album we hear "This is our best record yet," so I think we are showing the band credit for taking them at their word rather than just handing out participation trophies that they get simply for being old and still trying to do this.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: wambui24 on July 03, 2017, 01:25:00 PM
As a fairly new forum member, I really love reading through and watching the progression of these longer threads (kudos Exile for such an inspiring post!)  ;)

I doubt any of us can claim to never have been disappointed and at some point let down by our (my) favorite band for the last 26 years, and it's comforting to read through this forum and watch as others express similar frustrations.  I think Exile nailed it when he said that it's more a symptom of caring too much, having grown up with these guys singing the soundtrack to your life.  Have I been disappointed with most of what they've put out over the last 15 years?  Sure.  Have I still purchased all of the albums?  You bet I have.  Am I going to sit around and let a non-U2 fan talk trash about them to me?  Hell no!  Am I going to talk some trash about them to other big fans?  Of course!  It's sort of like siblings, right?  You can fight with them all day, but you're sure as hell not going to let anyone outside of the family mess with your brothers.  ;) 

SOI is the first U2 album I have truly loved since Zooropa (Achtung Baby being my all time favorite).  I've liked a handful of songs on other albums in the 2000s, but the albums just never did anything much for me.  (I very much agree and got a huge chuckle out of the comparison with the Star Wars prequels in this thread!)  I liked SOI when it was released, but seeing the arena shows in Vancouver really elevated my love of this album immensely - it was like nothing I'd ever seen before, and I had all the feels I remembered having from this band over the years.  This band has certainly made me roll my eyes, but they have also given me some of the best moments I have ever experienced through music.  I will never NOT love this band, no matter how frustrated they make me sometimes.

I've taken some notes and look forward to checking out some of the other music recommendations in these posts from an tha and exile - am already a huge Radiohead fan, and I discovered The Neighborhood a couple of years ago.  I look forward to digging through the older posts in this forum and filling the "Show new replies to your posts" section for many of you.  ;)

And, Exile, I can't believe after 30 pages of this post, no one commented on your Uncle Rico reference?!  Pssssshhhhh
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: shineinthesummernight on July 03, 2017, 02:38:37 PM
I understand the constructive criticism aspect, but I don't know how anyone, casual or long-term fan, could leave the JT 2017 disappointed in any way.  There was literally something for everyone and the energy level and excitement were off the charts.  My primary emotion is gratitude...gratitude that I'm alive at the time of this band, thankfulness that they're still doing their thing, and a prayerful hope that there will be many more years of this luminous and uplifting art.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on July 03, 2017, 02:58:45 PM
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As a fairly new forum member, I really love reading through and watching the progression of these longer threads (kudos Exile for such an inspiring post!)  ;)

I doubt any of us can claim to never have been disappointed and at some point let down by our (my) favorite band for the last 26 years, and it's comforting to read through this forum and watch as others express similar frustrations.  I think Exile nailed it when he said that it's more a symptom of caring too much, having grown up with these guys singing the soundtrack to your life.  Have I been disappointed with most of what they've put out over the last 15 years?  Sure.  Have I still purchased all of the albums?  You bet I have.  Am I going to sit around and let a non-U2 fan talk trash about them to me?  Hell no!  Am I going to talk some trash about them to other big fans?  Of course!  It's sort of like siblings, right?  You can fight with them all day, but you're sure as hell not going to let anyone outside of the family mess with your brothers.  ;) 

Yeah, the analogy works on a lot of levels. And I have no problem defending U2 to haters. But when people here are treated like haters for being critical it's ridiculous. If we can't eye-roll or huff here, then where?

Quote
I've taken some notes and look forward to checking out some of the other music recommendations in these posts from an tha and exile - am already a huge Radiohead fan, and I discovered The Neighborhood a couple of years ago. 

It's funny, I saw The Neighbourhood live last year, and I remember thinking at the time that they were in the exact place U2 was when they filmed the Red Rocks show (been around for 3 years, same number of albums, etc.), and as much as I love The Neighbourhood, they were NO comparison to U2 in '83 live concert-wise.

Not sure if I posted this or not, it's a Spotify playlist with 20 songs by 20 recent bands: https://open.spotify.com/user/1261853452/playlist/2xNBUNUvCYeLbdOY5jqmIi

Quote
And, Exile, I can't believe after 30 pages of this post, no one commented on your Uncle Rico reference?!  Pssssshhhhh

Haha, I think the two comments right afterwards got it! Now go grab some Pampers for you and your brother....
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: wambui24 on July 03, 2017, 03:18:08 PM
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Not sure if I posted this or not, it's a Spotify playlist with 20 songs by 20 recent bands: https://open.spotify.com/user/1261853452/playlist/2xNBUNUvCYeLbdOY5jqmIi

Quote
And, Exile, I can't believe after 30 pages of this post, no one commented on your Uncle Rico reference?!  Pssssshhhhh

Haha, I think the two comments right afterwards got it! Now go grab some Pampers for you and your brother....

Thanks - I'll check out your playlist!
And now I'm embarrassed for not getting the reference where other commenters got your ND reference.  Gosh!  ;)
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: ShankAsu on July 03, 2017, 03:31:09 PM
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As a fairly new forum member, I really love reading through and watching the progression of these longer threads (kudos Exile for such an inspiring post!)  ;)

I doubt any of us can claim to never have been disappointed and at some point let down by our (my) favorite band for the last 26 years, and it's comforting to read through this forum and watch as others express similar frustrations.  I think Exile nailed it when he said that it's more a symptom of caring too much, having grown up with these guys singing the soundtrack to your life.  Have I been disappointed with most of what they've put out over the last 15 years?  Sure.  Have I still purchased all of the albums?  You bet I have.  Am I going to sit around and let a non-U2 fan talk trash about them to me?  Hell no!  Am I going to talk some trash about them to other big fans?  Of course!  It's sort of like siblings, right?  You can fight with them all day, but you're sure as hell not going to let anyone outside of the family mess with your brothers.  ;) 

Yeah, the analogy works on a lot of levels. And I have no problem defending U2 to haters. But when people here are treated like haters for being critical it's ridiculous. If we can't eye-roll or huff here, then where?

Quote
I've taken some notes and look forward to checking out some of the other music recommendations in these posts from an tha and exile - am already a huge Radiohead fan, and I discovered The Neighborhood a couple of years ago. 

It's funny, I saw The Neighbourhood live last year, and I remember thinking at the time that they were in the exact place U2 was when they filmed the Red Rocks show (been around for 3 years, same number of albums, etc.), and as much as I love The Neighbourhood, they were NO comparison to U2 in '83 live concert-wise.

Not sure if I posted this or not, it's a Spotify playlist with 20 songs by 20 recent bands: https://open.spotify.com/user/1261853452/playlist/2xNBUNUvCYeLbdOY5jqmIi

Quote
And, Exile, I can't believe after 30 pages of this post, no one commented on your Uncle Rico reference?!  Pssssshhhhh

Haha, I think the two comments right afterwards got it! Now go grab some Pampers for you and your brother....
Goonies.  I'm an Oregon boy, i know that one.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Blueyedboy on July 03, 2017, 10:24:30 PM
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The "experimental" or innovative impulses seem to be represented less and less on albums post-POP...but they are still there.

I think NLOTH could've been the album people like us were longing for. For my part, Being Born and Cedars are two of the most interesting songs in the post-Pop period (as is Breathe, although I personally don't like it even though I appreciate it for its unconventional structure). Then on SOI we've got songs like SLABT and The Troubles, which are also among the band's best post-Pop output.

The problem, of course, is that the version of U2 that people experience in a concert setting is the U2 that sees its most experimental stuff as filler that either gets ignored or dropped from the set while churning out Beautiful Day and IWF for the zillionth time.

And the casual fans eat it up, so you can't really blame the band for serving up Big Macs instead of steak.

They're just too successful to be able to do anything less than grand.  I'd love a symphony hall concert with a trippy light show and only their ambient/experimental stuff, but it will never happen.  They've never wanted to project anything but their "rock and roll" identity.

They're just to much of a brand now, they are able to guarantee promoters and record companies that they will shift xxx million units and sell out venues by staying true to the blueprint. Bono also needs to protect his image if he's to continue dealing with world leaders.

As Exile said, I think NLOTH is as leftfeild as it gets, but it should have been a larger detour from the norm than it was.

I still think that the band can make a great album, but doubt they'll release their shackles enough to do so. Is no coincidence that their more interesting material comes outside of U2 albums, Passengers and MDH being a couple of examples.

They've shown a willingness to go against the grain before, so why would you think they wouldn't do it again if inspiration struck? This band has re-invented itself at least three times over the years. As brilliant as they are, four humans can only have so many ideas. Some bands go their whole career with never changing their sound or experimenting, and some do so for the worse. How many times can you realistically expect someone to 'dream it all up' again? Not everyone is David Bowie, and not all of Bowie's turns were for the good.

Maybe we need to take our expectations down a peg or two.

I think you miss the point slightly, this was not a demand that they change their direction, more a resignation that in all likelihood, they wont. As I've said, I truly believe that they have the ability to make another truly great album but question their drive to do so.  This isn't a criticism, merely a reflection of where this band are currently.

They may have reinvented themselves in years gone by, but when the chips are down they no longer challenge themselves to bring something different to the table, now, they break glass and release 1987. Its a million miles from what made them great, but I get that time (and being comfortable) tames us all.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on July 04, 2017, 03:16:59 PM
This discussion chain feels like a battle for the SOUL! of U2.

I wish they would read it and weigh in with their thoughts.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: shineinthesummernight on July 04, 2017, 06:52:54 PM
U2's soul is just fine in my opinion.  They play a lot of songs for the masses and enjoy earning money, but they are still who they are at the core.  If you pay attention to their fluffy songs, there's always something to think about, i.e. "Love, lift me out of these blues, won't you tell me something true...I believe in you."  The casual fans have a blast with these tunes, and it also lifts the heaviness of some of their weightier work if you just let go and just bounce~!
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: riffraff on July 05, 2017, 05:22:10 AM
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U2's soul is just fine in my opinion.  They play a lot of songs for the masses and enjoy earning money, but they are still who they are at the core.  If you pay attention to their fluffy songs, there's always something to think about, i.e. "Love, lift me out of these blues, won't you tell me something true...I believe in you."  The casual fans have a blast with these tunes, and it also lifts the heaviness of some of their weightier work if you just let go and just bounce~!
I must agree with you, Shine, as I bounce to their music in a daily workout. While I admittedly do prefer their older, rawer sounds...the desperate lyric, the raw guitars...I very much still enjoy the fun, fluffy stuff too. BOUNCING!
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Saint1322 on July 05, 2017, 09:23:56 AM
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The "experimental" or innovative impulses seem to be represented less and less on albums post-POP...but they are still there.

I think NLOTH could've been the album people like us were longing for. For my part, Being Born and Cedars are two of the most interesting songs in the post-Pop period (as is Breathe, although I personally don't like it even though I appreciate it for its unconventional structure). Then on SOI we've got songs like SLABT and The Troubles, which are also among the band's best post-Pop output.

The problem, of course, is that the version of U2 that people experience in a concert setting is the U2 that sees its most experimental stuff as filler that either gets ignored or dropped from the set while churning out Beautiful Day and IWF for the zillionth time.

And the casual fans eat it up, so you can't really blame the band for serving up Big Macs instead of steak.

They're just too successful to be able to do anything less than grand.  I'd love a symphony hall concert with a trippy light show and only their ambient/experimental stuff, but it will never happen.  They've never wanted to project anything but their "rock and roll" identity.

They're just to much of a brand now, they are able to guarantee promoters and record companies that they will shift xxx million units and sell out venues by staying true to the blueprint. Bono also needs to protect his image if he's to continue dealing with world leaders.

As Exile said, I think NLOTH is as leftfeild as it gets, but it should have been a larger detour from the norm than it was.

I still think that the band can make a great album, but doubt they'll release their shackles enough to do so. Is no coincidence that their more interesting material comes outside of U2 albums, Passengers and MDH being a couple of examples.

They've shown a willingness to go against the grain before, so why would you think they wouldn't do it again if inspiration struck? This band has re-invented itself at least three times over the years. As brilliant as they are, four humans can only have so many ideas. Some bands go their whole career with never changing their sound or experimenting, and some do so for the worse. How many times can you realistically expect someone to 'dream it all up' again? Not everyone is David Bowie, and not all of Bowie's turns were for the good.

Maybe we need to take our expectations down a peg or two.

I think you miss the point slightly, this was not a demand that they change their direction, more a resignation that in all likelihood, they wont. As I've said, I truly believe that they have the ability to make another truly great album but question their drive to do so.  This isn't a criticism, merely a reflection of where this band are currently.

They may have reinvented themselves in years gone by, but when the chips are down they no longer challenge themselves to bring something different to the table, now, they break glass and release 1987. Its a million miles from what made them great, but I get that time (and being comfortable) tames us all.


No, I get your point, but my point is, how many new roads can a band find? I think you assume that they aren't trying. Bands that aren't trying don't spend this much time in the studio. If they were content to release 'U2 By The Numbers' we would be getting a new album of Vertigo-like rockers and Every Breaking Wave-style ballads every two years. They could do that in their sleep.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Saint1322 on July 05, 2017, 09:27:34 AM
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The "experimental" or innovative impulses seem to be represented less and less on albums post-POP...but they are still there.

I think NLOTH could've been the album people like us were longing for. For my part, Being Born and Cedars are two of the most interesting songs in the post-Pop period (as is Breathe, although I personally don't like it even though I appreciate it for its unconventional structure). Then on SOI we've got songs like SLABT and The Troubles, which are also among the band's best post-Pop output.

The problem, of course, is that the version of U2 that people experience in a concert setting is the U2 that sees its most experimental stuff as filler that either gets ignored or dropped from the set while churning out Beautiful Day and IWF for the zillionth time.

And the casual fans eat it up, so you can't really blame the band for serving up Big Macs instead of steak.

They're just too successful to be able to do anything less than grand.  I'd love a symphony hall concert with a trippy light show and only their ambient/experimental stuff, but it will never happen.  They've never wanted to project anything but their "rock and roll" identity.

They're just to much of a brand now, they are able to guarantee promoters and record companies that they will shift xxx million units and sell out venues by staying true to the blueprint. Bono also needs to protect his image if he's to continue dealing with world leaders.

As Exile said, I think NLOTH is as leftfeild as it gets, but it should have been a larger detour from the norm than it was.

I still think that the band can make a great album, but doubt they'll release their shackles enough to do so. Is no coincidence that their more interesting material comes outside of U2 albums, Passengers and MDH being a couple of examples.

Maybe we need to take our expectations down a peg or two.

Not to put words in the poster's mouth, but I would be surprised if Bono's attitude were, "Hey, cut us some slack! We've been doing this a long time and ideas are hard. If you stop expecting so much of us, then we will stop letting you down."

U2 creates high expectations. With every album we hear "This is our best record yet," so I think we are showing the band credit for taking them at their word rather than just handing out participation trophies that they get simply for being old and still trying to do this.

I don't think it is unrealistic to expect GOOD material, but I do think it is unfair to expect the same band to reinvent the wheel every time out. Most bands don't go through one radical change, and U2 have been through like four? That's what I meant by lowering expectations. Also, a song can be good and enjoyable without being Streets or UV or UnFire or whatever U2 song you happen to think is their high water mark.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on July 05, 2017, 11:59:14 AM
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I don't think it is unrealistic to expect GOOD material, but I do think it is unfair to expect the same band to reinvent the wheel every time out. Most bands don't go through one radical change, and U2 have been through like four? That's what I meant by lowering expectations. Also, a song can be good and enjoyable without being Streets or UV or UnFire or whatever U2 song you happen to think is their high water mark.

OK, take NLOTH as an example to work from. Is there "good" material on there? No question. I love Being Born, which sounds like a modern-day outtake from the UF sessions with a bit of weird Zooropean influence thrown in -- trippy opening, cool lyrics, ambient vibe (other than the effing "whoa-ohhhs" unnecessarily thrown in there because God forbid we let the music just breathe). I also like Cedars and Magnificent, and think MOS is OK, albeit frustrating.

Now I don't consider NLOTH to be some reinvention, so I don't know why you are telling me I shouldn't expect one with every new U2 album. I never claimed to want that.

Now if U2 had avoided the second-guessing and hit-envy and just released the version of NLOTH that the band and producers were describing in all the magazines in 2008, it would sit significantly higher on my list of their best albums. But they didn't. They pulled the album back, went into the studio again, and either neutered the songs they had or wrote new ones guaranteed to challenge absolutely no one.

This insistence that "U2 can't be expected to reinvent the wheel with every new album" is a strawman. No one is asking for that. All we are asking is that the band free themselves to pursue their most interesting ideas (of which there are clearly plenty) without watering that output down due to their desperate plea for acceptance.

U2, please: Get up off your knees.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Saint1322 on July 05, 2017, 12:42:31 PM
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All we are asking is that the band free themselves to pursue their most interesting ideas (of which there are clearly plenty) without watering that output down due to their desperate plea for acceptance.

I don't see any evidence -- other than quotes from Bono about wanting to remain relevant -- that suggests they aren't. I think where you and I disagree is here: If I understand you correctly, you seem to believe that U2 are capable of mining new sounds and ideas more than they do but stifle this creativity to chase radio hits. And you might be right. I am suggesting that is entirely possible they are doing the absolute best they can.

And let me also throw this out there: We might quibble here and there about the order, but by and large, what albums are considered U2's best? And which are considered their weakest? Ever notice that one group has a certain gent in the credits and the other group doesn't? I think average music fans underestimate the importance of the producer or producers, and IMO, Mr. Eno is sorely missed on every U2 album made without him.

As for the relevance thing, it would be a shame if U2 were ignoring the muse to chase radio play, BUT ... in so many words, the reason REM split up when they did was basically because they got tired of making new music they found exciting and interesting and on par with anything they had ever done only to be completely ignored by all put their most hardcore fans, and half of them who gave the new music a chance didn't like it.

I would submit to you that U2 aren't interested in navel-gazing or what a friend of mine calls 'musical masturbation' or playing in an echo chamber. The second the world loses interest in U2, U2 will lose interest in U2, so be careful what you wish for. There's a balance, and for every Fez/Being Born (which I also love, BTW) there are going to do something more accessible.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: shineinthesummernight on July 05, 2017, 02:31:16 PM
I think Bono is afflicted with the performer's burden of wanting to be liked by all.  It's incredible, for a man of his talent and caliber, that this is still an issue for him, but I believe that it is.  This is one of the paradoxes of U2 (and there are many).  How much this affects his work for good or ill is hard to say.  I submit that it keeps him humble (or humbler, for those who have a different view) and probably to a large degree keeps him dissatisfied and hungry, not complacent like many in his position would be.  On the other hand, it does seem to keep him second-guessing himself to an incredible degree.  Paradoxically, I think that our weaknesses can often be turned to strengths, and our strengths can be weaknesses.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Saint1322 on July 05, 2017, 02:39:04 PM
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I think Bono is afflicted with the performer's burden of wanting to be liked by all.  It's incredible, for a man of his talent and caliber, that this is still an issue for him, but I believe that it is.  This is one of the paradoxes of U2 (and there are many).  How much this affects his work for good or ill is hard to say.  I submit that it keeps him humble (or humbler, for those who have a different view) and probably to a large degree keeps him dissatisfied and hungry, not complacent like many in his position would be.  On the other hand, it does seem to keep him second-guessing himself to an incredible degree.  Paradoxically, I think that our weaknesses can often be turned to strengths, and our strengths can be weaknesses.

It is exactly like I said about setlists: Bono is not interested in watching 10,000 people head for the bathroom or beer line as he starts to sing Your Blue Room in a football stadium. So instead, we get Elevation and the place goes bonkers. That's not on Bono; that's on the audience. He's a human being with feelings just like anyone else. They see the reaction just the same as us, and no one wants to be rejected. See also, my comments about the empty seats on the PopMart Tour.

There are very, very few performers who get off on antagonizing their audience, and U2 is about as far from that as you can get, to their credit.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Johnny Feathers on July 05, 2017, 02:43:41 PM
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All we are asking is that the band free themselves to pursue their most interesting ideas (of which there are clearly plenty) without watering that output down due to their desperate plea for acceptance.

I don't see any evidence -- other than quotes from Bono about wanting to remain relevant -- that suggests they aren't. I think where you and I disagree is here: If I understand you correctly, you seem to believe that U2 are capable of mining new sounds and ideas more than they do but stifle this creativity to chase radio hits. And you might be right. I am suggesting that is entirely possible they are doing the absolute best they can.

And let me also throw this out there: We might quibble here and there about the order, but by and large, what albums are considered U2's best? And which are considered their weakest? Ever notice that one group has a certain gent in the credits and the other group doesn't? I think average music fans underestimate the importance of the producer or producers, and IMO, Mr. Eno is sorely missed on every U2 album made without him.

As for the relevance thing, it would be a shame if U2 were ignoring the muse to chase radio play, BUT ... in so many words, the reason REM split up when they did was basically because they got tired of making new music they found exciting and interesting and on par with anything they had ever done only to be completely ignored by all put their most hardcore fans, and half of them who gave the new music a chance didn't like it.

I would submit to you that U2 aren't interested in navel-gazing or what a friend of mine calls 'musical masturbation' or playing in an echo chamber. The second the world loses interest in U2, U2 will lose interest in U2, so be careful what you wish for. There's a balance, and for every Fez/Being Born (which I also love, BTW) there are going to do something more accessible.

I think your comment about Eno is interesting, and COULD hold water--but he's also been involved in two of their latter period albums which are among those frequently criticized by folks here (including myself).

I think the simple fact that U2 were in their mid-20's to mid-30's during their creative peak tells you everything, really.  Look at ANY band or artist, and those are normally the peak years.  I'm in no way surprised that the band's output in their 50's doesn't hold up to the stuff from back then.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: aviastar on July 05, 2017, 02:44:11 PM
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I think Bono is afflicted with the performer's burden of wanting to be liked by all.  It's incredible, for a man of his talent and caliber, that this is still an issue for him, but I believe that it is.  This is one of the paradoxes of U2 (and there are many).  How much this affects his work for good or ill is hard to say.  I submit that it keeps him humble (or humbler, for those who have a different view) and probably to a large degree keeps him dissatisfied and hungry, not complacent like many in his position would be.  On the other hand, it does seem to keep him second-guessing himself to an incredible degree.  Paradoxically, I think that our weaknesses can often be turned to strengths, and our strengths can be weaknesses.

It is exactly like I said about setlists: Bono is not interested in watching 10,000 people head for the bathroom or beer line as he starts to sing Your Blue Room in a football stadium. So instead, we get Elevation and the place goes bonkers. That's not on Bono; that's on the audience. He's a human being with feelings just like anyone else. They see the reaction just the same as us, and no one wants to be rejected. See also, my comments about the empty seats on the PopMart Tour.

There are very, very few performers who get off on antagonizing their audience, and U2 is about as far from that as you can get, to their credit.

Which, to their credit, they are really putting it out there on this tour.  Songs like RHMT are not big crowd pleasers - and I saw people heading for bathrooms and exits on encore tunes like MS and Little Things.  So, for people who are saying that U2 isn't taking a lot of chances - they basically are playing an album straight through on a tour that is designed to bring out a bunch of people out who just remember only the first 3, maybe 4 tunes.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Blueyedboy on July 05, 2017, 03:11:53 PM
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The "experimental" or innovative impulses seem to be represented less and less on albums post-POP...but they are still there.

I think NLOTH could've been the album people like us were longing for. For my part, Being Born and Cedars are two of the most interesting songs in the post-Pop period (as is Breathe, although I personally don't like it even though I appreciate it for its unconventional structure). Then on SOI we've got songs like SLABT and The Troubles, which are also among the band's best post-Pop output.

The problem, of course, is that the version of U2 that people experience in a concert setting is the U2 that sees its most experimental stuff as filler that either gets ignored or dropped from the set while churning out Beautiful Day and IWF for the zillionth time.

And the casual fans eat it up, so you can't really blame the band for serving up Big Macs instead of steak.

They're just too successful to be able to do anything less than grand.  I'd love a symphony hall concert with a trippy light show and only their ambient/experimental stuff, but it will never happen.  They've never wanted to project anything but their "rock and roll" identity.

They're just to much of a brand now, they are able to guarantee promoters and record companies that they will shift xxx million units and sell out venues by staying true to the blueprint. Bono also needs to protect his image if he's to continue dealing with world leaders.

As Exile said, I think NLOTH is as leftfeild as it gets, but it should have been a larger detour from the norm than it was.

I still think that the band can make a great album, but doubt they'll release their shackles enough to do so. Is no coincidence that their more interesting material comes outside of U2 albums, Passengers and MDH being a couple of examples.

They've shown a willingness to go against the grain before, so why would you think they wouldn't do it again if inspiration struck? This band has re-invented itself at least three times over the years. As brilliant as they are, four humans can only have so many ideas. Some bands go their whole career with never changing their sound or experimenting, and some do so for the worse. How many times can you realistically expect someone to 'dream it all up' again? Not everyone is David Bowie, and not all of Bowie's turns were for the good.

Maybe we need to take our expectations down a peg or two.

I think you miss the point slightly, this was not a demand that they change their direction, more a resignation that in all likelihood, they wont. As I've said, I truly believe that they have the ability to make another truly great album but question their drive to do so.  This isn't a criticism, merely a reflection of where this band are currently.

They may have reinvented themselves in years gone by, but when the chips are down they no longer challenge themselves to bring something different to the table, now, they break glass and release 1987. Its a million miles from what made them great, but I get that time (and being comfortable) tames us all.


No, I get your point, but my point is, how many new roads can a band find? I think you assume that they aren't trying. Bands that aren't trying don't spend this much time in the studio. If they were content to release 'U2 By The Numbers' we would be getting a new album of Vertigo-like rockers and Every Breaking Wave-style ballads every two years. They could do that in their sleep.

Ok, seems you have made some assumptions for me which I am happy to explore.
Firstly I'm not suggesting that they donít put the effort in, I think to a fault they work pretty hard on perfecting albums to what they believe the listener wants to hear. I wonít go over old ground with regards to them diluting the original concept of a record in post production, thatís been done to death and I have no more to add.
To pick you up on a point you made with regards to them not churning albums out every couple of years full of U2 by numbers, it may be overly critical of me but isn't that exactly what they have done in recent times but at a lesser frequency?  I mean, when was the last time a U2 record has surprised you, not in quality, we all know they have that in abundance, but in the way the have pushed their boundaries, and in turn, ours?  You may say that judging them on this is harsh, but it is a metric that has been constant throughout their career and part of the qualities that made them greats. The band have actively travelled away from being predictable in the past, but now telegraph their direction by talk of three album plans and don't stray too far away from their blueprint. There will be exceptions of course, but the fact that I can label them as such proves a point.

My point was never that since '97 U2 should have made a shift in their genre or got more experimental, but I do feel that they should have remained creative. They can do it when no-one is looking, like on the MDH soundtrack for example, or in the few demos that we hear, but for some reason these rarely end up on album track lists.

My biggest issue with U2's lack of creativity used to be that they chose to make ATYCLB, which, for me at least, has the hallmarks of a comeback album, or a return to something.  In hindsight I accept that ATYCLB has a place in the U2 timeline, bit feel it stopped all progress by appearing so close to their creative peak and much too early in their career.  Its success paved the way for a simpler, familiar and more polite sounding band.

As Iíve said in my earlier post, I accept where they are right now and have no sense of entitlement after what these guys have given me over the years, (and I guess they've done just fine without my valuable advice), but I canít help feel that they have so much more to offer in a creative sense than the formulaic and predictable output we get.

And to show I hold no grudges and make peace with the band, I'll state that they are producing the best material that any 40yr old band has ever done previously or ever will again ☺!
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on July 05, 2017, 05:22:35 PM
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It is exactly like I said about setlists: Bono is not interested in watching 10,000 people head for the bathroom or beer line as he starts to sing Your Blue Room in a football stadium. So instead, we get Elevation and the place goes bonkers.

When I watch U2 shows from 1981, I don't get the impression that Bono would nix October or The Ocean from the setlist in favor of some meaningless proto-Elevation if people were heading for the exits. Instead he wouldn't let them leave.

He comes from a long line of traveling salespeople on his mother's side. He needs to sell the songs the way he once did, not capitulate to a tasteless majority and conform to them. That goes against everything U2 used to be about.

The irony of this current tour is that in '87 Bono used to go on and on about how none of the songs on TJT sounded like anything else on the radio, like, as if that were a good thing. How times have changed.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on July 05, 2017, 05:26:46 PM
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All we are asking is that the band free themselves to pursue their most interesting ideas (of which there are clearly plenty) without watering that output down due to their desperate plea for acceptance.

And let me also throw this out there: We might quibble here and there about the order, but by and large, what albums are considered U2's best? And which are considered their weakest? Ever notice that one group has a certain gent in the credits and the other group doesn't? I think average music fans underestimate the importance of the producer or producers, and IMO, Mr. Eno is sorely missed on every U2 album made without him.


Haha, sorry to mess up your point, but both my favorite and least favorite U2 album was produced by Brian Eno.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Saint1322 on July 06, 2017, 07:32:20 AM
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All we are asking is that the band free themselves to pursue their most interesting ideas (of which there are clearly plenty) without watering that output down due to their desperate plea for acceptance.

And let me also throw this out there: We might quibble here and there about the order, but by and large, what albums are considered U2's best? And which are considered their weakest? Ever notice that one group has a certain gent in the credits and the other group doesn't? I think average music fans underestimate the importance of the producer or producers, and IMO, Mr. Eno is sorely missed on every U2 album made without him.


Haha, sorry to mess up your point, but both my favorite and least favorite U2 album was produced by Brian Eno.

Which were they? Eno is undefeated for me. I love everything he's ever done with U2.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Saint1322 on July 06, 2017, 07:36:28 AM
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The "experimental" or innovative impulses seem to be represented less and less on albums post-POP...but they are still there.

I think NLOTH could've been the album people like us were longing for. For my part, Being Born and Cedars are two of the most interesting songs in the post-Pop period (as is Breathe, although I personally don't like it even though I appreciate it for its unconventional structure). Then on SOI we've got songs like SLABT and The Troubles, which are also among the band's best post-Pop output.

The problem, of course, is that the version of U2 that people experience in a concert setting is the U2 that sees its most experimental stuff as filler that either gets ignored or dropped from the set while churning out Beautiful Day and IWF for the zillionth time.

And the casual fans eat it up, so you can't really blame the band for serving up Big Macs instead of steak.

They're just too successful to be able to do anything less than grand.  I'd love a symphony hall concert with a trippy light show and only their ambient/experimental stuff, but it will never happen.  They've never wanted to project anything but their "rock and roll" identity.

They're just to much of a brand now, they are able to guarantee promoters and record companies that they will shift xxx million units and sell out venues by staying true to the blueprint. Bono also needs to protect his image if he's to continue dealing with world leaders.

As Exile said, I think NLOTH is as leftfeild as it gets, but it should have been a larger detour from the norm than it was.

I still think that the band can make a great album, but doubt they'll release their shackles enough to do so. Is no coincidence that their more interesting material comes outside of U2 albums, Passengers and MDH being a couple of examples.

They've shown a willingness to go against the grain before, so why would you think they wouldn't do it again if inspiration struck? This band has re-invented itself at least three times over the years. As brilliant as they are, four humans can only have so many ideas. Some bands go their whole career with never changing their sound or experimenting, and some do so for the worse. How many times can you realistically expect someone to 'dream it all up' again? Not everyone is David Bowie, and not all of Bowie's turns were for the good.

Maybe we need to take our expectations down a peg or two.

I think you miss the point slightly, this was not a demand that they change their direction, more a resignation that in all likelihood, they wont. As I've said, I truly believe that they have the ability to make another truly great album but question their drive to do so.  This isn't a criticism, merely a reflection of where this band are currently.

They may have reinvented themselves in years gone by, but when the chips are down they no longer challenge themselves to bring something different to the table, now, they break glass and release 1987. Its a million miles from what made them great, but I get that time (and being comfortable) tames us all.


No, I get your point, but my point is, how many new roads can a band find? I think you assume that they aren't trying. Bands that aren't trying don't spend this much time in the studio. If they were content to release 'U2 By The Numbers' we would be getting a new album of Vertigo-like rockers and Every Breaking Wave-style ballads every two years. They could do that in their sleep.

Ok, seems you have made some assumptions for me which I am happy to explore.
Firstly I'm not suggesting that they donít put the effort in, I think to a fault they work pretty hard on perfecting albums to what they believe the listener wants to hear. I wonít go over old ground with regards to them diluting the original concept of a record in post production, thatís been done to death and I have no more to add.
To pick you up on a point you made with regards to them not churning albums out every couple of years full of U2 by numbers, it may be overly critical of me but isn't that exactly what they have done in recent times but at a lesser frequency?  I mean, when was the last time a U2 record has surprised you, not in quality, we all know they have that in abundance, but in the way the have pushed their boundaries, and in turn, ours?  You may say that judging them on this is harsh, but it is a metric that has been constant throughout their career and part of the qualities that made them greats. The band have actively travelled away from being predictable in the past, but now telegraph their direction by talk of three album plans and don't stray too far away from their blueprint. There will be exceptions of course, but the fact that I can label them as such proves a point.

My point was never that since '97 U2 should have made a shift in their genre or got more experimental, but I do feel that they should have remained creative. They can do it when no-one is looking, like on the MDH soundtrack for example, or in the few demos that we hear, but for some reason these rarely end up on album track lists.

My biggest issue with U2's lack of creativity used to be that they chose to make ATYCLB, which, for me at least, has the hallmarks of a comeback album, or a return to something.  In hindsight I accept that ATYCLB has a place in the U2 timeline, bit feel it stopped all progress by appearing so close to their creative peak and much too early in their career.  Its success paved the way for a simpler, familiar and more polite sounding band.

As Iíve said in my earlier post, I accept where they are right now and have no sense of entitlement after what these guys have given me over the years, (and I guess they've done just fine without my valuable advice), but I canít help feel that they have so much more to offer in a creative sense than the formulaic and predictable output we get.

And to show I hold no grudges and make peace with the band, I'll state that they are producing the best material that any 40yr old band has ever done previously or ever will again ☺!


But here's why I'm not mad at them: While it is fair to call ATYCLB a 'comeback' album, you know what else it is? A gorgeous, thought-provoking, satisfying, emotional album. Does it strike out in an obvious new direction like the three albums prior? No, it doesn't, but it still has synths and drum-loops and isn't exactly white bread dad rock either.

I was put in charge of music at a small Fourth of July cookout the other day, my wife and I (both age 40) and two other couples, ages 32 and 49 and the 14 and 12 year old kids of the older couple. I played Beautiful Day and everyone loved it, and then I ended up just letting the album play, and everyone went on and on about how good the whole album was, beyond just the singles.

So while ATYCLB may have been a blatant attempt to 'win back' the people they 'lost' with Pop, at the end of the day, IMO, the album itself is fantastic, the tour was a religious experience and at the end of the day, isn't that what matters most?
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on July 06, 2017, 08:19:23 AM
I wouldn't mind if they worked with Eno again.  I wouldn't mind if some of the atmospherics he brought out of the band returned to their sound.  I thought the "U2 atmosphere" was distinctly missing from Songs Of Innocence. 

I wouldn't mind if U2 sounded like...U2...by which I mean if they still embraced certain flourishes that are their own.  I think Songs Of Innocence sounds the least like "U2" of any of their previous work, at least on first listens.  The Edge is quite restrained or, perhaps more accurate...channeled into the production brought to the album.  I missed hearing the usual Edge flourishes and it felt like there were at least some sounds on the album previously evoked by other bands.

So, it's kind of a weird contradiction: U2 crafted a lot of sounds with that new album that don't sound like typical U2...which would seem to be in the spirit of what we desire from U2...but a lot of those sounds felt derivative, at least for me, exceptions being Raised By Wolves and The Troubles.  I love Volcano too, but it feels like they are channeling other bands with that song.

I'm not disagreeing with the call for U2 to tread new ground, but I also wouldn't mind if U2 sounded like...U2.  You know?

Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Johnny Feathers on July 06, 2017, 09:11:43 AM
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But here's why I'm not mad at them: While it is fair to call ATYCLB a 'comeback' album, you know what else it is? A gorgeous, thought-provoking, satisfying, emotional album. Does it strike out in an obvious new direction like the three albums prior? No, it doesn't, but it still has synths and drum-loops and isn't exactly white bread dad rock either.

I was put in charge of music at a small Fourth of July cookout the other day, my wife and I (both age 40) and two other couples, ages 32 and 49 and the 14 and 12 year old kids of the older couple. I played Beautiful Day and everyone loved it, and then I ended up just letting the album play, and everyone went on and on about how good the whole album was, beyond just the singles.

So while ATYCLB may have been a blatant attempt to 'win back' the people they 'lost' with Pop, at the end of the day, IMO, the album itself is fantastic, the tour was a religious experience and at the end of the day, isn't that what matters most?

I think you're more forgiving of ATYCLB than I am.  I did my best to get into it at the time, and the Elevation tour was great, but any time I put it on now it's always unsatisfying, and I end up listening almost out of curiosity at what I tried so hard to get into back then, and a vague sense of nostalgia for the period of time it represents.  I like certain elements--the airiness that was probably Eno's doing, a few "modern" touches, Kite and New York--but overall it is simply too nice, in a way that even their earnest 80's stuff never was.  I don't begrudge them going that direction, or singing about mature subjects, but the songs rarely reach anything like the peak I felt from their previous albums.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on July 06, 2017, 11:02:22 AM
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All we are asking is that the band free themselves to pursue their most interesting ideas (of which there are clearly plenty) without watering that output down due to their desperate plea for acceptance.

And let me also throw this out there: We might quibble here and there about the order, but by and large, what albums are considered U2's best? And which are considered their weakest? Ever notice that one group has a certain gent in the credits and the other group doesn't? I think average music fans underestimate the importance of the producer or producers, and IMO, Mr. Eno is sorely missed on every U2 album made without him.


Haha, sorry to mess up your point, but both my favorite and least favorite U2 album was produced by Brian Eno.

Which were they? Eno is undefeated for me. I love everything he's ever done with U2.

Achtung and ATYCLB are my favorite and least favorite U2 albums, both with Eno at the helm.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Johnny Feathers on July 06, 2017, 11:18:57 AM
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All we are asking is that the band free themselves to pursue their most interesting ideas (of which there are clearly plenty) without watering that output down due to their desperate plea for acceptance.

And let me also throw this out there: We might quibble here and there about the order, but by and large, what albums are considered U2's best? And which are considered their weakest? Ever notice that one group has a certain gent in the credits and the other group doesn't? I think average music fans underestimate the importance of the producer or producers, and IMO, Mr. Eno is sorely missed on every U2 album made without him.


Haha, sorry to mess up your point, but both my favorite and least favorite U2 album was produced by Brian Eno.

Which were they? Eno is undefeated for me. I love everything he's ever done with U2.

Achtung and ATYCLB are my favorite and least favorite U2 albums, both with Eno at the helm.

Funny enough, I think he arguably had more involvement with ATYCLB.  My impression is that he was more of a "consultant" on AB, leaving the heavy lifting to Lanois, who didn't always seem to get the band's new direction at the time.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Saint1322 on July 06, 2017, 11:35:21 AM
Johnny, if you watch the making of Achtung Baby doc, it looks to me as though Eno and Lanois came *this* close to playing the songs for U2. It seems to me they did a ton of heavy lifting getting sounds and tones dialed up, and then they handed the instruments to U2 and said 'Play'. I don't think there's much accident that Danny was not involved in Zooropa and it went even further.

If you listen to Danny's work with other artists, I think it pretty clear which songs he was more involved with and which were more Eno.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Saint1322 on July 06, 2017, 11:36:51 AM
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All we are asking is that the band free themselves to pursue their most interesting ideas (of which there are clearly plenty) without watering that output down due to their desperate plea for acceptance.

And let me also throw this out there: We might quibble here and there about the order, but by and large, what albums are considered U2's best? And which are considered their weakest? Ever notice that one group has a certain gent in the credits and the other group doesn't? I think average music fans underestimate the importance of the producer or producers, and IMO, Mr. Eno is sorely missed on every U2 album made without him.


Haha, sorry to mess up your point, but both my favorite and least favorite U2 album was produced by Brian Eno.

Which were they? Eno is undefeated for me. I love everything he's ever done with U2.

Achtung and ATYCLB are my favorite and least favorite U2 albums, both with Eno at the helm.

I can understand ATYCLB not being especially exciting, but it is hard for me to hear what would be off-putting enough to rank it dead last. Achtung Baby is my favorite as well, followed by Zooropa, UnFire, TJT and ATYCLB, all Eno joints. :)
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on July 06, 2017, 11:42:41 AM
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But here's why I'm not mad at them: While it is fair to call ATYCLB a 'comeback' album, you know what else it is? A gorgeous, thought-provoking, satisfying, emotional album. Does it strike out in an obvious new direction like the three albums prior? No, it doesn't, but it still has synths and drum-loops and isn't exactly white bread dad rock either.

I was put in charge of music at a small Fourth of July cookout the other day, my wife and I (both age 40) and two other couples, ages 32 and 49 and the 14 and 12 year old kids of the older couple. I played Beautiful Day and everyone loved it, and then I ended up just letting the album play, and everyone went on and on about how good the whole album was, beyond just the singles.

So while ATYCLB may have been a blatant attempt to 'win back' the people they 'lost' with Pop, at the end of the day, IMO, the album itself is fantastic, the tour was a religious experience and at the end of the day, isn't that what matters most?

I think you're more forgiving of ATYCLB than I am.  I did my best to get into it at the time, and the Elevation tour was great, but any time I put it on now it's always unsatisfying, and I end up listening almost out of curiosity at what I tried so hard to get into back then, and a vague sense of nostalgia for the period of time it represents.  I like certain elements--the airiness that was probably Eno's doing, a few "modern" touches, Kite and New York--but overall it is simply too nice, in a way that even their earnest 80's stuff never was.  I don't begrudge them going that direction, or singing about mature subjects, but the songs rarely reach anything like the peak I felt from their previous albums.

Agreed. Call me a hipster elitist, but I preferred it when U2 were the best-kept secret on college radio as opposed to the band that middle-aged moms and dads consider safe fare for a family BBQ.

It's more a style thing, though, than an age thing. U2 still makes the kind of sophisticated and challenging music I like (Being Born, SLABT, etc.), they just do it as album filler which will never see the light of day live.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on July 06, 2017, 11:46:07 AM
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All we are asking is that the band free themselves to pursue their most interesting ideas (of which there are clearly plenty) without watering that output down due to their desperate plea for acceptance.

And let me also throw this out there: We might quibble here and there about the order, but by and large, what albums are considered U2's best? And which are considered their weakest? Ever notice that one group has a certain gent in the credits and the other group doesn't? I think average music fans underestimate the importance of the producer or producers, and IMO, Mr. Eno is sorely missed on every U2 album made without him.


Haha, sorry to mess up your point, but both my favorite and least favorite U2 album was produced by Brian Eno.

Which were they? Eno is undefeated for me. I love everything he's ever done with U2.

Achtung and ATYCLB are my favorite and least favorite U2 albums, both with Eno at the helm.

I can understand ATYCLB not being especially exciting, but it is hard for me to hear what would be off-putting enough to rank it dead last. Achtung Baby is my favorite as well, followed by Zooropa, UnFire, TJT and ATYCLB, all Eno joints. :)

Well a lot of it has to do with Bono's awful singing -- he just blows it so many times and for some reason those were the takes chosen. And I just plain old don't like a lot of the songs (SIAM, Elevation, BD, WH. Even IALW didn't grow on me until they played it live).

To each his own, I guess.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Johnny Feathers on July 06, 2017, 11:47:58 AM
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Johnny, if you watch the making of Achtung Baby doc, it looks to me as though Eno and Lanois came *this* close to playing the songs for U2. It seems to me they did a ton of heavy lifting getting sounds and tones dialed up, and then they handed the instruments to U2 and said 'Play'. I don't think there's much accident that Danny was not involved in Zooropa and it went even further.

If you listen to Danny's work with other artists, I think it pretty clear which songs he was more involved with and which were more Eno.

Is that From the Sky Down, or another one?  My impression, I think, was from the U2 ATEOTW book, where Lanois didn't get the new direction, and it seemed like Eno would fly in, go "hey, you're doing great!", and then fly out again.  I'm sure that's overly simplified, though.  I'm fairly aware of Lanois's other stuff, too, which I think is why AB was such a "bad fit" for him at the time over all.  AB is one of those albums that almost seems miraculous it exists, considering the amount of struggle involved in creating it.

At any rate, I still hold that U2's latter period is more a result of simply not being young anymore than it is a lack of Eno's involvement.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Edgematic on July 06, 2017, 11:57:36 AM
The biggest strike against ATYCLB is that the second half of the album is pretty lousy. 

"Wild Honey" is a lightweight throwaway.
"Peace on Earth" borders on Bono self parody and is musically dull.
"When I Look at the World" is featureless and bland.
"New York" is musically OK but it's ruined by Bono's unconvincing (Nobody calls Alphabet City "Alphaville", Bono) and childish one-fish-two-fish lyrics.  It was salvaged live, at least.
and "Grace" is Part III in the Boring Pseudo-Profound Statement trilogy along with "Peace on Earth" and "When I Look at the World."



Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: shineinthesummernight on July 06, 2017, 01:16:22 PM
Getting back to the SOI discussion....there was something about that album that was too direct, too straightforward for my taste.  Not as ambient as many of U2's other work.  I am a fan of NLOTH for that reason.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Saint1322 on July 06, 2017, 01:24:21 PM
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All we are asking is that the band free themselves to pursue their most interesting ideas (of which there are clearly plenty) without watering that output down due to their desperate plea for acceptance.

And let me also throw this out there: We might quibble here and there about the order, but by and large, what albums are considered U2's best? And which are considered their weakest? Ever notice that one group has a certain gent in the credits and the other group doesn't? I think average music fans underestimate the importance of the producer or producers, and IMO, Mr. Eno is sorely missed on every U2 album made without him.


Haha, sorry to mess up your point, but both my favorite and least favorite U2 album was produced by Brian Eno.

Which were they? Eno is undefeated for me. I love everything he's ever done with U2.

Achtung and ATYCLB are my favorite and least favorite U2 albums, both with Eno at the helm.

I can understand ATYCLB not being especially exciting, but it is hard for me to hear what would be off-putting enough to rank it dead last. Achtung Baby is my favorite as well, followed by Zooropa, UnFire, TJT and ATYCLB, all Eno joints. :)

Well a lot of it has to do with Bono's awful singing -- he just blows it so many times and for some reason those were the takes chosen. And I just plain old don't like a lot of the songs (SIAM, Elevation, BD, WH. Even IALW didn't grow on me until they played it live).

To each his own, I guess.

Of course, yes. Everyone hears what they hear, and that is perfectly fine. Now I will say this: I much prefer the single versions of both Elevation and especially Walk On. And I prefer the B&E studio acoustic version of Stuck In A Moment. But I like the album cuts for the most part. I agree with the poster above who called Wild Honey a lightweight throwaway. I think Adam himself called it a throwaway. I like the rest though.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Blueyedboy on July 06, 2017, 03:27:40 PM
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The "experimental" or innovative impulses seem to be represented less and less on albums post-POP...but they are still there.

I think NLOTH could've been the album people like us were longing for. For my part, Being Born and Cedars are two of the most interesting songs in the post-Pop period (as is Breathe, although I personally don't like it even though I appreciate it for its unconventional structure). Then on SOI we've got songs like SLABT and The Troubles, which are also among the band's best post-Pop output.

The problem, of course, is that the version of U2 that people experience in a concert setting is the U2 that sees its most experimental stuff as filler that either gets ignored or dropped from the set while churning out Beautiful Day and IWF for the zillionth time.

And the casual fans eat it up, so you can't really blame the band for serving up Big Macs instead of steak.

They're just too successful to be able to do anything less than grand.  I'd love a symphony hall concert with a trippy light show and only their ambient/experimental stuff, but it will never happen.  They've never wanted to project anything but their "rock and roll" identity.

They're just to much of a brand now, they are able to guarantee promoters and record companies that they will shift xxx million units and sell out venues by staying true to the blueprint. Bono also needs to protect his image if he's to continue dealing with world leaders.

As Exile said, I think NLOTH is as leftfeild as it gets, but it should have been a larger detour from the norm than it was.

I still think that the band can make a great album, but doubt they'll release their shackles enough to do so. Is no coincidence that their more interesting material comes outside of U2 albums, Passengers and MDH being a couple of examples.

They've shown a willingness to go against the grain before, so why would you think they wouldn't do it again if inspiration struck? This band has re-invented itself at least three times over the years. As brilliant as they are, four humans can only have so many ideas. Some bands go their whole career with never changing their sound or experimenting, and some do so for the worse. How many times can you realistically expect someone to 'dream it all up' again? Not everyone is David Bowie, and not all of Bowie's turns were for the good.

Maybe we need to take our expectations down a peg or two.

I think you miss the point slightly, this was not a demand that they change their direction, more a resignation that in all likelihood, they wont. As I've said, I truly believe that they have the ability to make another truly great album but question their drive to do so.  This isn't a criticism, merely a reflection of where this band are currently.

They may have reinvented themselves in years gone by, but when the chips are down they no longer challenge themselves to bring something different to the table, now, they break glass and release 1987. Its a million miles from what made them great, but I get that time (and being comfortable) tames us all.


No, I get your point, but my point is, how many new roads can a band find? I think you assume that they aren't trying. Bands that aren't trying don't spend this much time in the studio. If they were content to release 'U2 By The Numbers' we would be getting a new album of Vertigo-like rockers and Every Breaking Wave-style ballads every two years. They could do that in their sleep.

Ok, seems you have made some assumptions for me which I am happy to explore.
Firstly I'm not suggesting that they donít put the effort in, I think to a fault they work pretty hard on perfecting albums to what they believe the listener wants to hear. I wonít go over old ground with regards to them diluting the original concept of a record in post production, thatís been done to death and I have no more to add.
To pick you up on a point you made with regards to them not churning albums out every couple of years full of U2 by numbers, it may be overly critical of me but isn't that exactly what they have done in recent times but at a lesser frequency?  I mean, when was the last time a U2 record has surprised you, not in quality, we all know they have that in abundance, but in the way the have pushed their boundaries, and in turn, ours?  You may say that judging them on this is harsh, but it is a metric that has been constant throughout their career and part of the qualities that made them greats. The band have actively travelled away from being predictable in the past, but now telegraph their direction by talk of three album plans and don't stray too far away from their blueprint. There will be exceptions of course, but the fact that I can label them as such proves a point.

My point was never that since '97 U2 should have made a shift in their genre or got more experimental, but I do feel that they should have remained creative. They can do it when no-one is looking, like on the MDH soundtrack for example, or in the few demos that we hear, but for some reason these rarely end up on album track lists.

My biggest issue with U2's lack of creativity used to be that they chose to make ATYCLB, which, for me at least, has the hallmarks of a comeback album, or a return to something.  In hindsight I accept that ATYCLB has a place in the U2 timeline, bit feel it stopped all progress by appearing so close to their creative peak and much too early in their career.  Its success paved the way for a simpler, familiar and more polite sounding band.

As Iíve said in my earlier post, I accept where they are right now and have no sense of entitlement after what these guys have given me over the years, (and I guess they've done just fine without my valuable advice), but I canít help feel that they have so much more to offer in a creative sense than the formulaic and predictable output we get.

And to show I hold no grudges and make peace with the band, I'll state that they are producing the best material that any 40yr old band has ever done previously or ever will again ☺!


But here's why I'm not mad at them: While it is fair to call ATYCLB a 'comeback' album, you know what else it is? A gorgeous, thought-provoking, satisfying, emotional album. Does it strike out in an obvious new direction like the three albums prior? No, it doesn't, but it still has synths and drum-loops and isn't exactly white bread dad rock either.

I was put in charge of music at a small Fourth of July cookout the other day, my wife and I (both age 40) and two other couples, ages 32 and 49 and the 14 and 12 year old kids of the older couple. I played Beautiful Day and everyone loved it, and then I ended up just letting the album play, and everyone went on and on about how good the whole album was, beyond just the singles.

So while ATYCLB may have been a blatant attempt to 'win back' the people they 'lost' with Pop, at the end of the day, IMO, the album itself is fantastic, the tour was a religious experience and at the end of the day, isn't that what matters most?

Here's what it was like when waiting with anticipation for U2 to announce their next move after POP only to get ATYCLB  :)

https://youtu.be/QgnJ8GpsBG8?t=5m26s  (https://youtu.be/QgnJ8GpsBG8?t=5m26s)
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on July 06, 2017, 05:50:30 PM
I prefer the Eno-produced albums that have Eno-esque touches and ambience.  Unforgettable Fire and The Joshua Tree and some of No Line On The Horizon.  And obviously Passengers, my favorite!

Except for Grace on All That You Can't Leave Behind, I don't hear Eno's presence on that album or Achtung Baby at all.  I know it isn't always the producer's role to inject themselves in obvious ways into the music, but I like it when Eno and Lanois do it...

The Bob Dylan album Lanois produced had that ambient feel as well...

Seems like there was a time when anything Eno and Lanois touched resulted in magic.

Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: WookieeWarrior10 on July 06, 2017, 10:06:23 PM
I'd like for U2 to make another album with Flood... either him, or somebody totally and completely new to them. Something needs to change when the band is in the studio.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on July 07, 2017, 12:32:04 AM
I listened to Deep In The Heart earlier in the evening.  That part near the end where Bono's voice soars made me realize that U2 isn't U2 when it doesn't attempt to go overground, and Songs Of Innocence doesn't have that touch of grandeur.  Their poppier instincts on their previous two albums feels like they're wallowing in the mud instead of trying to achieve the lift-off they're so good at. 

Get your head out of the mud, baby, let's go to the overground.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on July 07, 2017, 11:38:03 AM
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I'd like for U2 to make another album with Flood... either him, or somebody totally and completely new to them. Something needs to change when the band is in the studio.

Yes, that's what excited me so much about them working with Danger Mouse (I've been a fan of Broken Bells since they started). And yes, the Danger Mouse tracks are the strongest on SOI. Too bad they didn't just make an album with one producer and a consistent sound throughout.

I wonder if Nigel Godrich could push them in new and challenging directions?
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: WookieeWarrior10 on July 07, 2017, 12:56:48 PM
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I'd like for U2 to make another album with Flood... either him, or somebody totally and completely new to them. Something needs to change when the band is in the studio.

Yes, that's what excited me so much about them working with Danger Mouse (I've been a fan of Broken Bells since they started). And yes, the Danger Mouse tracks are the strongest on SOI. Too bad they didn't just make an album with one producer and a consistent sound throughout.

I wonder if Nigel Godrich could push them in new and challenging directions?
Good suggestion, Nigel would do a good job of picking up where Danger Mouse left off.

At least we have Jacknife Lee... assuming what he's produced hasn't been thrown out.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: NOLA Fly on July 07, 2017, 06:07:56 PM
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Call me a hipster elitist, but I preferred it when U2 were the best-kept secret on college radio as opposed to the band that middle-aged moms and dads consider safe fare for a family BBQ.

So they no longer offer you a sense of superiority? Which U2 albums would you not consider "safe fare"? Outside of a handful of songs where Bono says a word I'm not ready for my two year old to repeat, I can't think of anything in their catalog I wouldn't play in front of him. And it was a matter of time before the people who listened to U2 on college radio grew up and listened to them in minivans and at BBQs. The Unforgettable Fire: safe BBQ fare. 
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on July 07, 2017, 06:27:33 PM
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Call me a hipster elitist, but I preferred it when U2 were the best-kept secret on college radio as opposed to the band that middle-aged moms and dads consider safe fare for a family BBQ.

So they no longer offer you a sense of superiority? Which U2 albums would you not consider "safe fare"? Outside of a handful of songs where Bono says a word I'm not ready for my two year old to repeat, I can't think of anything in their catalog I wouldn't play in front of him. And it was a matter of time before the people who listened to U2 on college radio grew up and listened to them in minivans and at BBQs. The Unforgettable Fire: safe BBQ fare.

How do I get into this Unforgettable Fire-minivan-bbq scene?  Actually sounds kind of fun. 
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: THRILLHO on July 07, 2017, 06:35:38 PM
if they hadn't appealed to dads my dad wouldn't ever have gotten me into them so i'm thankful for that.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: AlexandriaRising on July 08, 2017, 12:11:16 PM
Exile and some of you chaps sound like grumpy old men and therefore I am one of them.
Longtime reader here, U2 fan since 85. Nothing really invested per se these days, but there is something to say when the lads go experimental and draw outside the lines. I have no say over what they do and don't discard them for playing it safe - though I won't listen to it either - but I think the issue is so many of us grew up on the bravado and freshness of the first 3 albums and/or enjoyed the atmospheric textures of UF, AB, Passengers, Pop, etc. we just consider anything else sub-par. I thought NLOTH had a few songs that were strong at the beginning and end, (I love Cedars), but the middle went safe and I thought SOI was strong in many ways and had some of their angrier work in years - which I like. (Yeah, WAR was the first album I bought) My whole point, I suppose, is a lot of us grumpy Gen Xers don't hate U2, we have just heard them pushing the envelope and we've heard their version of a saccharine 4/4 pop song and prefer the former i.e. we're spoiled....
Title: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: DoYouFeelLoved on July 08, 2017, 12:12:09 PM
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I wouldn't mind if they worked with Eno again.  I wouldn't mind if some of the atmospherics he brought out of the band returned to their sound.  I thought the "U2 atmosphere" was distinctly missing from Songs Of Innocence. 

I wouldn't mind if U2 sounded like...U2...by which I mean if they still embraced certain flourishes that are their own.  I think Songs Of Innocence sounds the least like "U2" of any of their previous work, at least on first listens.  The Edge is quite restrained or, perhaps more accurate...channeled into the production brought to the album.  I missed hearing the usual Edge flourishes and it felt like there were at least some sounds on the album previously evoked by other bands.

So, it's kind of a weird contradiction: U2 crafted a lot of sounds with that new album that don't sound like typical U2...which would seem to be in the spirit of what we desire from U2...but a lot of those sounds felt derivative, at least for me, exceptions being Raised By Wolves and The Troubles.  I love Volcano too, but it feels like they are channeling other bands with that song.

I'm not disagreeing with the call for U2 to tread new ground, but I also wouldn't mind if U2 sounded like...U2.  You know?

+1 wholeheartedly agree.

I've always thought SOI was the sound of the band screaming "we are running out of ideas, let's borrow other people's sound! Edge, can you not play here?  K don't worry, we'll turn you down or drown you underneath a cool synth!!"

It's an unpopular and divisive view in here, that's why I don't feel the need to bring it up in discussions about the subject, but I think you've made the point the best possible way.
Title: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: aviastar on July 08, 2017, 12:25:59 PM
Yeah I gotta agree here...u2 appealed to my dad in 1985 - when he already had two kids in tow.  That's how I became a fan. 

TUF may be an 'experimental'...but it's still pretty safe mainstream rock.   so yeah they may have been a minivan band all the way back then.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: The Exile on July 08, 2017, 12:59:09 PM
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Call me a hipster elitist, but I preferred it when U2 were the best-kept secret on college radio as opposed to the band that middle-aged moms and dads consider safe fare for a family BBQ.

So they no longer offer you a sense of superiority? Which U2 albums would you not consider "safe fare"? Outside of a handful of songs where Bono says a word I'm not ready for my two year old to repeat, I can't think of anything in their catalog I wouldn't play in front of him. And it was a matter of time before the people who listened to U2 on college radio grew up and listened to them in minivans and at BBQs. The Unforgettable Fire: safe BBQ fare.

As I went on to clarify, it's not really about early- or later-U2 that makes the difference, it's more a style thing. Being Born and SLABT are more up my alley than Beautiful Day or Walk On, even though the latter two are much older.

I don't know, I have just always appreciated art that isn't obvious or immediately accessible without a little work. That's what I meant by safe BBQ fare: Playlists for parties are often designed to appeal to the broadest audience possible in order to keep everyone happy. But even though your '80s playlist (for example) may keep your guests' feet tapping to "We Built This City" and "Working for the Weekend," I'd be silently wishing you'd play Siouxsie and the Banshees or Peter Murphy.

U2's output seems to resemble that lowest-common-denominator, party playlist, is what I guess I'm saying. And I like the more obscure stuff, and what they consider forgettable filler is what I think is their best material.
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on July 08, 2017, 05:28:51 PM
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Call me a hipster elitist, but I preferred it when U2 were the best-kept secret on college radio as opposed to the band that middle-aged moms and dads consider safe fare for a family BBQ.

So they no longer offer you a sense of superiority? Which U2 albums would you not consider "safe fare"? Outside of a handful of songs where Bono says a word I'm not ready for my two year old to repeat, I can't think of anything in their catalog I wouldn't play in front of him. And it was a matter of time before the people who listened to U2 on college radio grew up and listened to them in minivans and at BBQs. The Unforgettable Fire: safe BBQ fare.

As I went on to clarify, it's not really about early- or later-U2 that makes the difference, it's more a style thing. Being Born and SLABT are more up my alley than Beautiful Day or Walk On, even though the latter two are much older.

I don't know, I have just always appreciated art that isn't obvious or immediately accessible without a little work. That's what I meant by safe BBQ fare: Playlists for parties are often designed to appeal to the broadest audience possible in order to keep everyone happy. But even though your '80s playlist (for example) may keep your guests' feet tapping to "We Built This City" and "Working for the Weekend," I'd be silently wishing you'd play Siouxsie and the Banshees or Peter Murphy.

U2's output seems to resemble that lowest-common-denominator, party playlist, is what I guess I'm saying. And I like the more obscure stuff, and what they consider forgettable filler is what I think is their best material.

It sounds like the real issue for you is not the band or its music but the BBQs you're being invited to.   8)
Title: Re: U2, Please: Get Up Off Your Knees
Post by: Rising Sun on July 08, 2017, 05:32:47 PM
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I wouldn't mind if they worked with Eno again.  I wouldn't mind if some of the atmospherics he brought out of the band returned to their sound.  I thought the "U2 atmosphere" was distinctly missing from Songs Of Innocence. 

I wouldn't mind if U2 sounded like...U2...by which I mean if they still embraced certain flourishes that are their own.  I think Songs Of Innocence sounds the least like "U2" of any of their previous work, at least on first listens.  The Edge is quite restrained or, perhaps more accurate...channeled into the production brought to the album.  I missed hearing the usual Edge flourishes and it felt like there were at least some sounds on the album previously evoked by other bands.

So, it's kind of a weird contradiction: U2 crafted a lot of sounds with that new album that don't sound like typical U2...which would seem to be in the spirit of what we desire from U2...but a lot of those sounds felt derivative, at least for me, exceptions being Raised By Wolves and The Troubles.  I love Volcano too, but it feels like they are channeling other bands with that song.

I'm not disagreeing with the call for U2 to tread new ground, but I also wouldn't mind if U2 sounded like...U2.  You know?