Author Topic: Bootleg Question  (Read 10596 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline briscoetheque

  • Traffic Cop (Rue du Marais)
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,731
  • R-E-S-T-E-C-P
Re: Bootleg Question
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2010, 04:15:54 PM »
do you breathe when you talk, darling?

Offline nowurtalkin

  • Stateless
  • *
  • Posts: 125
  • music speaks & moves more than money talks & walks
Re: Bootleg Question
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2010, 08:55:36 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
And you know it's time to go

i don't know who that comment is directed at, but if to me, no clue what it means. unless you're suggesting i leave?

Offline nowurtalkin

  • Stateless
  • *
  • Posts: 125
  • music speaks & moves more than money talks & walks
Re: Bootleg Question
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2010, 09:13:11 PM »
very surprised (thankyou) to find out who PM is. the surprise is actually confusion, because if i understand correctly, u r saying that the mgmt co of the band is in direct conflict w/the expressed feelings of the band. do i have that correct? i will wait to make sure i do. but quickly, if so, i find thay way interesting. i could certainly understand the basic idea that a mngmt co might have a prob w/free "trading" of live stuff, but the rub is that if said company works directly for an employer who states differently, i would like to know how in the heck such a scenario can be a "workable" thing between them?

Offline nowurtalkin

  • Stateless
  • *
  • Posts: 125
  • music speaks & moves more than money talks & walks
Re: Bootleg Question
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2010, 09:16:03 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
do you breathe when you talk, darling?

no, do you when you....nevermind. 

InThisHeartland

  • Guest
Re: Bootleg Question
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2010, 09:40:01 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
And you know it's time to go

i don't know who that comment is directed at, but if to me, no clue what it means. unless you're suggesting i leave?

It's a U2 lyric and the poster probably is commenting on how he/she doesn't want to get involved in this discussion. Probably not directed at anyone at all.

Offline briscoetheque

  • Traffic Cop (Rue du Marais)
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,731
  • R-E-S-T-E-C-P
Re: Bootleg Question
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2010, 09:57:28 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
very surprised (thankyou) to find out who PM is. the surprise is actually confusion, because if i understand correctly, u r saying that the mgmt co of the band is in direct conflict w/the expressed feelings of the band.

The band can change management at any time.

Offline Joe90usa

  • Airborne Ranger
  • ***
  • Posts: 7,570
  • Dragons Rule! Catfish Drool.
Re: Bootleg Question
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2010, 09:59:58 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
very surprised (thankyou) to find out who PM is. the surprise is actually confusion, because if i understand correctly, u r saying that the mgmt co of the band is in direct conflict w/the expressed feelings of the band. do i have that correct? i will wait to make sure i do. but quickly, if so, i find thay way interesting. i could certainly understand the basic idea that a mngmt co might have a prob w/free "trading" of live stuff, but the rub is that if said company works directly for an employer who states differently, i would like to know how in the heck such a scenario can be a "workable" thing between them?

You are correct in stating the band and PM have different opinions on protecting the band's performances. Keep in mind that they have different goals. The band's job is to win as many fans to influence sales as best they can via recordings, concerts and other public appearances. PM's job is to protect those earnings and promote the band as best they can by insuring that legalities are in place to ensure that these things happen as best the market can bare. PM works under the guidance of the band in matters that pertain to the band (PM has other clients as well but it was created to be the legal arm of U2 initially).

Taking into account these two divergent purposes, which side of the fence (on bootlegs) should the band come down on if they are doing their job? Which side of the fence should PM come down on if they are doing their job? In this configuration on this issue, does the band maximize itself in the eyes of their fans while being able to point their finger at PM for not giving fans what they want...even though PM is working for the band and doing what they are told to do?

Image is everything.  8)

Offline briscoetheque

  • Traffic Cop (Rue du Marais)
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,731
  • R-E-S-T-E-C-P
Re: Bootleg Question
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2010, 10:11:41 PM »
OK, vitriol aside...nowurtalkin, the reasons for this site not allowing bootleg trading have been described you don't have to agree with them but you have to accept that they are not going to change as they are the rules of the site, there are so many sites out there that allow you to trade bootlegs, U2 and otherwise, so, y'know, head over to them and trade to your heart's content and get all of the stuff that U2 want you to have but PM don't want you to have. That sounds quite easy and would be a good approach to growing your collection of brilliant live recordings (as I have) and you'll find (that many others have) as well so that they can have access to some amazing live (and unreleased) recordings to listen to.

I've formatted my response so it's easier to comprehend.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 10:14:56 PM by Joe90usa »

Offline briscoetheque

  • Traffic Cop (Rue du Marais)
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,731
  • R-E-S-T-E-C-P
Re: Bootleg Question
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2010, 10:14:46 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
And you know it's time to go

i don't know who that comment is directed at, but if to me, no clue what it means. unless you're suggesting i leave?

And, yep, give the guy a prize...

Offline nowurtalkin

  • Stateless
  • *
  • Posts: 125
  • music speaks & moves more than money talks & walks
Re: Bootleg Question
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2010, 10:17:14 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
And you know it's time to go

i don't know who that comment is directed at, but if to me, no clue what it means. unless you're suggesting i leave?

It's a U2 lyric and the poster probably is commenting on how he/she doesn't want to get involved in this discussion. Probably not directed at anyone at all.
thanx inthis...funny, but like 2 sec b4 i read ur reply. that thought occurred to me, but since i didn't recognize for that, i reverted to "it must be a comment (neg) to me, because as brisco will tell u i can be easily recognized as a darling...

Offline Midnight is Where the Day Begins

  • Genius of Compression
  • ****
  • Posts: 37,282
  • Oh it's time, it's time, it's IeTOUR time!!
Re: Bootleg Question
« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2010, 10:17:53 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
And you know it's time to go

i don't know who that comment is directed at, but if to me, no clue what it means. unless you're suggesting i leave?

I think you're overreacting a bit.

Offline nowurtalkin

  • Stateless
  • *
  • Posts: 125
  • music speaks & moves more than money talks & walks
Re: Bootleg Question
« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2010, 10:21:06 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
very surprised (thankyou) to find out who PM is. the surprise is actually confusion, because if i understand correctly, u r saying that the mgmt co of the band is in direct conflict w/the expressed feelings of the band.

The band can change management at any time.

and your point is...? i mean obviously the richest band in the world can do pretty much what they want. how does that apply to any of my questions?

Offline briscoetheque

  • Traffic Cop (Rue du Marais)
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,731
  • R-E-S-T-E-C-P
Re: Bootleg Question
« Reply #27 on: August 04, 2010, 10:28:10 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
very surprised (thankyou) to find out who PM is. the surprise is actually confusion, because if i understand correctly, u r saying that the mgmt co of the band is in direct conflict w/the expressed feelings of the band.

The band can change management at any time.

and your point is...? i mean obviously the richest band in the world can do pretty much what they want. how does that apply to any of my questions?

It applies to your point about the feelings of the band being in direct conflict with the responsibilities of the management.

i agree with you that there is a gulf between 'we don't care about people sharing live recordings' from the band, and the more heavy handed approach taken by record companies and management.

But my point about them being able to change at any time...

Well, if the philosophy IS at odds with what U2 want, there are many things they can do.

Change management companies, to one that will allow free live recordings being traded by fans
Change record companies (though this would be trickier) to one that won't pursue any piracy suits in exchange for having U2 on the books

What I'm saying is clear, though I can see why the paragraphing and punctuation has thrown you somewhat.

If U2 - the band - are so fundamentally opposed to Principle Mgmt - their agents - pursuing piracy proliferators , they can change management companies.

So from this we can conclude that they're really not too fussed about what PM do, so long as their commercial interests are protected. And that's well and good for a commercial entity, which is what U2 are.

Offline nowurtalkin

  • Stateless
  • *
  • Posts: 125
  • music speaks & moves more than money talks & walks
Re: Bootleg Question
« Reply #28 on: August 04, 2010, 11:20:35 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
very surprised (thankyou) to find out who PM is. the surprise is actually confusion, because if i understand correctly, u r saying that the mgmt co of the band is in direct conflict w/the expressed feelings of the band. do i have that correct? i will wait to make sure i do. but quickly, if so, i find thay way interesting. i could certainly understand the basic idea that a mngmt co might have a prob w/free "trading" of live stuff, but the rub is that if said company works directly for an employer who states differently, i would like to know how in the heck such a scenario can be a "workable" thing between them?

You are correct in stating the band and PM have different opinions on protecting the band's performances. Keep in mind that they have different goals. The band's job is to win as many fans to influence sales as best they can via recordings, concerts and other public appearances. PM's job is to protect those earnings and promote the band as best they can by insuring that legalities are in place to ensure that these things happen as best the market can bare. PM works under the guidance of the band in matters that pertain to the band (PM has other clients as well but it was created to be the legal arm of U2 initially).

Taking into account these two divergent purposes, which side of the fence (on bootlegs) should the band come down on if they are doing their job? Which side of the fence should PM come down on if they are doing their job? In this configuration on this issue, does the band maximize itself in the eyes of their fans while being able to point their finger at PM for not giving fans what they want...even though PM is working for the band and doing what they are told to do?

Image is everything.  8)

joe, i understand the workings of business & mngmt & the obvious goals. those points don't really speak much to the question of a "compatable working relationship", esp w/such a non-trivial issue. i mean when u think about it, that is a huge conflict, with the irony that they both have the same ultimate common goal. i can see right off, that it cannot be as simple as what has so far been said about it here. there is gauranteed much more to it than meets the eye, in terms of how such a basic conflict could be "a workable" situation when relating it to what you have said about how they (would like automatically shut you down) in other words, i cannot envision how the band & the mgmt could sit down for a meeting & bono says...well, what he's said about it, and then mgmt speaks up & says: "hey guess what...there's that @u2 site (or whoever...) and they are allowing posters to tell other forum members where they can find unreleased audience boots, so sorry boss, but in spite of your opinion on the matter & regardless that you are the richest band in the world, we are shutting them down tomorrow, followed by all the rest". <bono/band> "oh...uh...ok...dang it!

i am not seeing that as a viable scenario. the only way i could see that to actually be the case, is if indeed it was the mgmt team that was "leaving" in the morning, or even if this was a very new and/or short lived situation.

this idea reminds me of a defendant/lawyer thing, where the court demands the defendant have a lawyer, but the defendant wants to represent himself & this irks the lawyer to no end, but the end is that one of them has to give in to the other, in order for the case to proceed, because the conflict is simplt too fundimental & they can't both do what they want. it must be one or the other. (by the way, pardon me if you went on to cover any of that in ur reply. i see an idea & i get immed provoked to say what i think...perhaps b4 alzeimers or something sets in)

what you have described as "different goals", i see as more in the big picture, as the same goal, which the best marketing is the ultimate goal. now, while their ideas on a common aspect, such as the boots, there is no way i believe it can coexist on the level you say it is. i believe there must be different reality than that. in fact if based on the garcia-esque reasoning that bono see this question as, and his apparent strong convictions about things, i'm not buying that right now he would say "go right ahead...it is fine with me...you have my blessing....and i am flattered & humbled by your adoration...and there's no more room in my bank anyways.....but....sorry, mgmt will be busting you forthwith. nah...can't see that...

and by the way, your initial (one of them) explanation of this conflict w/you, joe, in your capacity, and using the forum rules section as your reference, stated that the reason for the forum's problem, was you didn't have the time to police what's ok & not. that is a completely different reason, with seemingly nothing to do with this PM reason thing. joe, has anybody ever accused you of being a little slippery? just sayin...

oh, i just read your last paragraph. that is a very good observation of the whole, that (tip o the hat..) does indeed seem to sorta "tie it all together" and provide a plausable answer to how this major conflict could keep breating.  (even if you next post has a whole new one..), but...it also is to me, undeniably hypocritical. how can the band sign off on their (mgmt) checks, with the knowledge that in effect, in the end, what bono is saying is a lie, because it is.

hang on, i have to catch my breath now....    

p.s. oh, and i 4got, if this is true...how could sites the torrent sites be able to go on, for years, with no problem (as to u2)???
« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 11:23:53 PM by nowurtalkin »

Offline briscoetheque

  • Traffic Cop (Rue du Marais)
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,731
  • R-E-S-T-E-C-P
Re: Bootleg Question
« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2010, 12:10:14 AM »
Has anyone accused you, nowurtalking, of having a serious nerve coming to a forum and using every post you've made to basically attack moderators and accuse them of being 'slippery' and duplicitous? Just sayin...

I don't know if this phrase is comprehensible in your part of the world, but pull your head in sweetheart.

You've got to earn the right to fight with the mods you know  ;D