Author Topic: UV vs HMTMKMKM - Big mistake dropping UV (best part of the whole show)  (Read 3607 times)

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satellitedog01

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Re: UV vs HMTMKMKM - Big mistake dropping UV (best part of the whole show)
« Reply #30 on: August 09, 2010, 04:51:44 AM »
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Actually HMTMKMKM is not really convincing in the context of 360 as it's contradicting the whole notion of 2000s U2. One could agree that its irony would go hand in hand with the backlash from some outside detractors of Bono and '90s fans, but then it would be rather tastless to use  the song against them to justify the world hugging MOR that is the last 3 albums.

And if there is no subtext to reviving Hold Me... and they are doing it for fun, it's just throwaway fun, just like Boots, Vertigo, Crazy(remix sucker), while Ultraviolet was an emotional highlight.

I think Hold Me is convincing in the context of the irony and self-doubt evident in the No Line tracks (there are particularly strong parallels with Boots), none of which are just throwaway fun (well maybe the Crazy remix is 95% throwaway fun). It's a real shame to me that they dropped No Line and even Unknown Caller.
I don't hear self doubt in most of NLOTH's lyrics, I do hear some irony, but it's a kind of I got better things to do than worry about everything, eff off sort, that is very lighthearted, and HMTMKMKM is just not that, that one belongs firmly in the dense and dark Pop sort of irony, a precursor to Gone and more direct summing up of being who he is. The NLOTH irony is that of someone happy with where he is despite insecurities.


Offline Bundang Dave

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Re: UV vs HMTMKMKM - Big mistake dropping UV (best part of the whole show)
« Reply #31 on: August 09, 2010, 05:24:57 AM »
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Actually HMTMKMKM is not really convincing in the context of 360 as it's contradicting the whole notion of 2000s U2. One could agree that its irony would go hand in hand with the backlash from some outside detractors of Bono and '90s fans, but then it would be rather tastless to use  the song against them to justify the world hugging MOR that is the last 3 albums.

And if there is no subtext to reviving Hold Me... and they are doing it for fun, it's just throwaway fun, just like Boots, Vertigo, Crazy(remix sucker), while Ultraviolet was an emotional highlight.

I think Hold Me is convincing in the context of the irony and self-doubt evident in the No Line tracks (there are particularly strong parallels with Boots), none of which are just throwaway fun (well maybe the Crazy remix is 95% throwaway fun). It's a real shame to me that they dropped No Line and even Unknown Caller.
I don't hear self doubt in most of NLOTH's lyrics, I do hear some irony, but it's a kind of I got better things to do than worry about everything, eff off sort, that is very lighthearted, and HMTMKMKM is just not that, that one belongs firmly in the dense and dark Pop sort of irony, a precursor to Gone and more direct summing up of being who he is. The NLOTH irony is that of someone happy with where he is despite insecurities.



I agree with your characterization of the different flavours of irony (except maybe for the 'dense' modifier). However, I think that's why Hold Me works perfectly in the context of No Line tracks and the ideas of time and journey. It perfectly complements the matured irony and insecurity in Boots.

Offline mcconnot

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Re: UV vs HMTMKMKM - Big mistake dropping UV (best part of the whole show)
« Reply #32 on: August 09, 2010, 05:29:15 AM »
Wow this thread has descended into some serious bulls**t! :D

Offline DGordon1

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Re: UV vs HMTMKMKM - Big mistake dropping UV (best part of the whole show)
« Reply #33 on: August 09, 2010, 05:36:52 AM »
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Wow this thread has descended into some serious bulls**t! :D

Nah, I can see where they're coming from. I think the middle section of NLOTH definately has a different sort of irony to that of Pop. Pop was much darker in that regard :)

Offline shadedpain4

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Re: UV vs HMTMKMKM - Big mistake dropping UV (best part of the whole show)
« Reply #34 on: August 09, 2010, 06:14:59 AM »
I would love to see them push something out of the main set to do a 4 song encore of HMTM/UV/WOWY/MOS, but i think it's more likely that for the 2 night cities, one will get UV and one will get HMTM.

satellitedog01

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Re: UV vs HMTMKMKM - Big mistake dropping UV (best part of the whole show)
« Reply #35 on: August 09, 2010, 06:42:55 AM »
"Dense" could be swapped for dark, or confused. Thus of course a defensive irony, which would be in contrast with the seemingly more stable stance of lyrics like No Line has, or in fact Boots, where it's a grown up, more self conscious man facing some oddities.

Offline ciaz

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Re: UV vs HMTMKMKM - Big mistake dropping UV (best part of the whole show)
« Reply #36 on: August 09, 2010, 07:11:07 AM »
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If by "mistake" you mean "upgrade", then I agree 100%.   8)

#@!

agree. I did love UV, but I think HMTMKMKM is a great live song and I have been dying to hear it performed.

Offline Miami66

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Re: UV vs HMTMKMKM - Big mistake dropping UV (best part of the whole show)
« Reply #37 on: August 09, 2010, 09:10:36 AM »
HMTMKMKM rocks! as does UV!

zootv

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Re: UV vs HMTMKMKM - Big mistake dropping UV (best part of the whole show)
« Reply #38 on: August 09, 2010, 05:57:41 PM »
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Ultra Violet was the highlight of the 360 show I saw at Giants Stadium.

i agree. i was also there and it was the best part of the show,although i thought the whole show was great.

Offline THRILLHO

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Re: UV vs HMTMKMKM - Big mistake dropping UV (best part of the whole show)
« Reply #39 on: August 10, 2010, 09:27:20 AM »
I love this song, i'd put it in my top 10 U2 songs, but it's not in the right spot in the set. HMTM, WOWY, MoS.....which one is out of place? A full band version of Stay would be a more welcome song to start the encore, HMTM should be in the middle-ish, near Vertigo.

Offline Vervefloyd

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Re: UV vs HMTMKMKM - Big mistake dropping UV (best part of the whole show)
« Reply #40 on: August 11, 2010, 12:46:09 PM »
To me the issue is not one song replacing another.  It's more the feeling many of us get that when one song replaces another it's gone forever or for 15 years.  And now 2 no line songs may be buried like so many tracks of the past only to be played on their tour.  I know it's only 2 shows in, but in the big scope of things very little has changed from the previous 2 legs.  HMTMKMKM is surely a welcome return for me as it was one of the highlights of popmart, but already it's old hat having been played the first two nights.  I see no reason why U2 can't rotate in and out all of the songs played on this tour so far. 

I hate to sound so negative like I always do but to say UV was the best part of the whole show reveals the problem U2 has created.  They have created a show not a concert.  There is no reason why Bono should be singing a bit of Discotheque.  It's an insult.  Either play the song or don't.  I'm glad they embraced something non-acoustic from the mid to late 90's finally.  It's like they are so scared to offend the casual fans.  At least maybe HMTMKMKM turns some heads and annoys people live.  I'm all for U2 asking more from their fans and expecting more knowledge of the catalog.

Not sure I even answered the post, but this change I feel is the least of the issues (and I do love UV almost as much as any song they have ever written) going forward for 360. 

virgin_prune

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Re: UV vs HMTMKMKM - Big mistake dropping UV (best part of the whole show)
« Reply #41 on: August 11, 2010, 01:42:13 PM »
I agree. It is a show rather than a concert. Which is a problem. UV is a way better song than HMTMKM, which is more of an Elevation style single with a big riff. It worked on POPMART but not with 360. Bring back UV, it was a high point in an average set...

Offline pfctsqr

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Re: UV vs HMTMKMKM - Big mistake dropping UV (best part of the whole show)
« Reply #42 on: August 11, 2010, 10:13:46 PM »
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I agree. It is a show rather than a concert. Which is a problem. UV is a way better song than HMTMKM, which is more of an Elevation style single with a big riff. It worked on POPMART but not with 360. Bring back UV, it was a high point in an average set...

Well, being that they are now limiting the setlist to 4 NLOTH songs, the setlist isnt quite as average as it was; its actually a slight upgrade.

virgin_prune

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Re: UV vs HMTMKMKM - Big mistake dropping UV (best part of the whole show)
« Reply #43 on: August 12, 2010, 11:58:31 AM »
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I agree. It is a show rather than a concert. Which is a problem. UV is a way better song than HMTMKM, which is more of an Elevation style single with a big riff. It worked on POPMART but not with 360. Bring back UV, it was a high point in an average set...

Well, being that they are now limiting the setlist to 4 NLOTH songs, the setlist isnt quite as average as it was; its actually a slight upgrade.

Couldn't agree more!

Offline Chip

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Re: UV vs HMTMKMKM - Big mistake dropping UV (best part of the whole show)
« Reply #44 on: August 12, 2010, 01:12:06 PM »
It's great to see HMTMKMKM again. Personally, I wouldn't have it replace "Ultraviolet," which was, after "Your Blue Room," the highlight of DC 360 for me. (I'd probably place it after "Vertigo.")

Having said that, it fascinates me to think about the differences between the two in the context of the encore:

*In the first two legs, the "Ultraviolet"/WOWY/MOS combination had Bono playing a character at the end of his rope. This tone was set by the Zoo Baby (didn't he used to have a name back in the '90s, as I recall?) interludes. Whether Zoo Baby was reciting Auden or making the "space junk . . . planet Earth is blue, and there's nothing I can do"  (from "Mofo" to "Space Oddity") mutterings, he was depressed. (He'd been sad on Zoo TV and fearful on the Vertigo tour.) Bono then came on stage as the embodiment of a depressed character barely hanging on to life, to hope -- and, most of all, to God. He's not "stay[ing] in the song," which Bono identifies in the Pasadena video as staying in the search for love, Bono's favorite synonym and name for God. With God represented by the wheel, the character expresses mostly anger and desperation toward God in the first two songs. "Moment of Surrender," as Bono makes explicit in the Pasadena video, is meant to provide encouragement to stay afloat, and arguably to point a way out of the depression.

*The switch to HMTMKMKM changes the tone, and the character, entirely -- now we have MacPhisto or his equivalent (maybe even the Joker) cackling evilly. I haven't seen WOWY or MOS yet from the most recent shows, but I wouldn't be surprised if Bono's delivery of WOWY has changed as well (possibly closer to Zoo TV than the rather depressed version of the first two 360 legs). I suspect MOS is pretty much the same as on the previous legs. We got MacPhisto originally because Bono thought Europe needed another character than the very American Mirrorball Man as his depiction of evil; I wonder if similar thinking went into this encore change.     
« Last Edit: August 12, 2010, 06:42:15 PM by Chip »