Author Topic: What WOULD a U2's Greatest Hits Tour Look Like?  (Read 5010 times)

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Offline The Exile

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Re: What WOULD a U2's Greatest Hits Tour Look Like?
« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2010, 10:13:08 AM »
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Play (most of) these songs from the 80s: I Will Follow, Out of Control, Gloria, SBS, NYD, Pride, Streets, ISHF, and WOWY

Play (most of) these songs from the 90s: The Fly, Mysterious Ways, One, UTEOTW, EBTTRT, and Discotheque

Play (most of) these songs from the 00s: Beautiful Day, Walk On, Elevation, SIAM, Vertigo, and COBL[/i]

 

Only 10 of these 21 songs have broke Billboard's Top 40.  It goes to show that consistently giving fans a powerful, epic performance of a song can create a hit.

What is a hit?  The Fly, UTEOTW, Walk On, Elevation, SIAM and even COBL were never heard on the radio.  OK maybe Modern Rock stations, but not anywhere else.

Read my post again more carefully. I say very clearly that no band has enough bonafide HITS to fill a set, which is why a band launching a GHT will also play SINGLES, which may not be hits, but are audience favs.

Keep in mind, this doesn;t have to be read as some kind of insult. But it is a fact that IF U2 were to play a GHT, it would include all the songs you list.


So a U2 Greatest Hit can be a song that was never released as a single and never received much airplay, but has been performed consistently over the years to the pleasure of fans?

Again, it is a myth that a GHT needs to contain 24 great hits. No band (except maybe the Beatles) ever released that many bonafide hits. This goes for everyone: stop being defensive and just honestly ask the question, "If U2 launched a GHT, what would it look like?" I don't think one person on this forum would say that a U2 GHT would only include great hits. The fact that this would exclude Bad and UTEOTW is evidence enough against such a notion.

360 in its current leg has all the markers of what a U2 GHT would look like, with the possible exception of it containing one or two unreleased songs.

Offline Domenico of Lovetown

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Re: What WOULD a U2's Greatest Hits Tour Look Like?
« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2010, 10:35:45 AM »
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Play (most of) these songs from the 80s: I Will Follow, Out of Control, Gloria, SBS, NYD, Pride, Streets, ISHF, and WOWY

Play (most of) these songs from the 90s: The Fly, Mysterious Ways, One, UTEOTW, EBTTRT, and Discotheque

Play (most of) these songs from the 00s: Beautiful Day, Walk On, Elevation, SIAM, Vertigo, and COBL[/i]

 

Only 10 of these 21 songs have broke Billboard's Top 40.  It goes to show that consistently giving fans a powerful, epic performance of a song can create a hit.

What is a hit?  The Fly, UTEOTW, Walk On, Elevation, SIAM and even COBL were never heard on the radio.  OK maybe Modern Rock stations, but not anywhere else.

Read my post again more carefully. I say very clearly that no band has enough bonafide HITS to fill a set, which is why a band launching a GHT will also play SINGLES, which may not be hits, but are audience favs.

Keep in mind, this doesn;t have to be read as some kind of insult. But it is a fact that IF U2 were to play a GHT, it would include all the songs you list.


So a U2 Greatest Hit can be a song that was never released as a single and never received much airplay, but has been performed consistently over the years to the pleasure of fans?

Again, it is a myth that a GHT needs to contain 24 great hits. No band (except maybe the Beatles) ever released that many bonafide hits. This goes for everyone: stop being defensive and just honestly ask the question, "If U2 launched a GHT, what would it look like?" I don't think one person on this forum would say that a U2 GHT would only include great hits. The fact that this would exclude Bad and UTEOTW is evidence enough against such a notion.

360 in its current leg has all the markers of what a U2 GHT would look like, with the possible exception of it containing one or two unreleased songs.


The other night in Athens they played 23 songs.  9 of those songs were Top 40 hits here in America - about 40% of the set.  If 60% of the songs performed during a U2 Greatest Hits set never charted, that's an amazing thing.

Offline gnmmet

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Re: What WOULD a U2's Greatest Hits Tour Look Like?
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2010, 12:00:04 PM »
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Again, it is a myth that a GHT needs to contain 24 great hits. No band (except maybe the Beatles) ever released that many bonafide hits. This goes for everyone: stop being defensive and just honestly ask the question, "If U2 launched a GHT, what would it look like?" I don't think one person on this forum would say that a U2 GHT would only include great hits. The fact that this would exclude Bad and UTEOTW is evidence enough against such a notion.

360 in its current leg has all the markers of what a U2 GHT would look like, with the possible exception of it containing one or two unreleased songs.

In general I think that a greatest hits tour would be a set filled with little to no new songs and overwhelmingly filled by greatest hits and a few obscurities. The recent shows in Moscow and Athens come very close to this definition. But I don't agree that as a whole the tour represents a GHT.

When determining whether a tour is a GHT or not I don't think its particularly wise to base that conclusion on less than half of the shows from one leg of a possible six leg 3+ year tour. For all we know by the next leg there will be a new album out with plenty of new songs to be played.

I'm also not really convinced by the argument that its a GHT because U2 have abandoned NLOTH. First they're still playing at least four NLOTH songs per show, more than on the last leg of Vertigo. Second at most shows they are playing 6-7 new songs just like on the first two legs. Third, I don't buy the argument that the unreleased songs are irrelevant because they aren't on NLOTH. As far as I'm concerned new songs are new songs it doesn't matter if they're from an album thats out yet or not. When you have 6-7 new songs being played along with quite a few obscurities, I find it very difficult to label 360 a GHT.



I'm also not sure I agree with your criteria.

- A GHT will focus mostly on songs that are legitimate hits.

- Since most bands don’t have enough “hits” to fill a set, a good portion of the show will focus on singles which, though perhaps not hits, are nonetheless recognizable by the audience.

- In most cases, a GHT will still include slots for newer songs, regardless of how recognizable they may be.

- A GHT will be characterized by a tour name and concept that do not tie it to the band’s latest work.



1. Yes of course and not something I see happening on 360.

2. Not exactly relevant to U2 since they probably could fill a set with hits. I also disagree that singles would be the fall back, by that definition songs like Fire, Hold Me and TUF would be considered Greatest Hits while Bad and UTEOTW would not. I don't think thats all that fair.

3. Not sure about this either, check out the Police, Billy Joel and others.

4. Not sure this is all that relevant. If Zoo Tv or Popmart were played in Arenas Elevation style, would they be GHTs. I mean the concept would have a complete disconnect to the album. What about the opposite if the stage set up was the same, but only 2-3 new song were played. With the name there's the old don't judge a book by its cover.

I think a simpler definition is in order. Its a GHT if it overwhelmingly consists of hits and few obscurities with little to no new songs being played.

I don't think 360 meets these requirements.


Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: What WOULD a U2's Greatest Hits Tour Look Like?
« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2010, 12:28:43 PM »
This discussion is confusing. ???





satellitedog01

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Re: What WOULD a U2's Greatest Hits Tour Look Like?
« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2010, 02:05:24 PM »
The only thing that leaves U2 this side of a GH band, is that they are still producing new music, and legions of fans are waiting excitedly for these releases.
Their tours are sculpted for the Best of.../18singles crowd. And as long as Best of-s contain new songs/unreleased bonus material, a couple of new songs won't change a GHT much...

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Re: What WOULD a U2's Greatest Hits Tour Look Like?
« Reply #35 on: September 05, 2010, 03:24:39 PM »
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This discussion is confusing. ???






I think we need a pie chart.

Offline gnmmet

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Re: What WOULD a U2's Greatest Hits Tour Look Like?
« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2010, 04:26:34 PM »
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This discussion is confusing. ???






You're right it is way to complex.

From what I've seen the main disagreement is the unreleased songs. If you count them as new songs, the numbers can't be screwed around in anyway what-so-ever and 360 can't be a GHT. If you don't everything looks considerably worse.

Offline The Exile

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Re: What WOULD a U2's Greatest Hits Tour Look Like?
« Reply #37 on: September 05, 2010, 04:48:44 PM »
It seems like some people, their effort to defend U2's honor, are defining a GHT in such a way that U2 cannot engage in one even if they wanted to.

For example, when people say things like, "U2 played UTEOTW last night, and that's not a greatest hit. Therefore, 360 is not a greatest hits tour." But as I've been trying to point out, that's the wrong way to go about determining it. My response would be, "If U2 WERE to launch a GHT, it would most definitely include UTEOTW. Therefore, their having played it on the 360 tour cannot be evidence against its being a GHT." Any GHT that U2 played would necessarily have some non-hits in the setlist since they don't have enough bonafide hits to fill a set.

As I've said, the one thing that could potentially save 360 from being a GHT is the presence of 3-4 new songs and 1-2 unreleased songs. But the fact that the NLOTH songs dropped from 7 down to 3 or 4, and the fact that 2/3 of the unreleased songs are just bare sketches, doesn't exactly fill one with confidence that U2 are NOT going down the Greatest Hits road.

Offline Domenico of Lovetown

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Re: What WOULD a U2's Greatest Hits Tour Look Like?
« Reply #38 on: September 05, 2010, 04:57:17 PM »
Pride
WOWY
ISHFWILF
Streets
Desire
Angel Of Harlem
Mysterious Ways
One
EBTTRT
Wild Horses
HMTMKMKM
Discotheque
Staring At The Sun
Beautiful Day
UTEOTW
SBS
Glastonbury
Vertigo
Boots
MOS
NLOTH


Not in this order necessarily, but this set represents all of their American radio hits plus some extras.

Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: What WOULD a U2's Greatest Hits Tour Look Like?
« Reply #39 on: September 05, 2010, 05:15:01 PM »
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It seems like some people, their effort to defend U2's honor, are defining a GHT in such a way that U2 cannot engage in one even if they wanted to.

For example, when people say things like, "U2 played UTEOTW last night, and that's not a greatest hit. Therefore, 360 is not a greatest hits tour." But as I've been trying to point out, that's the wrong way to go about determining it. My response would be, "If U2 WERE to launch a GHT, it would most definitely include UTEOTW. Therefore, their having played it on the 360 tour cannot be evidence against its being a GHT." Any GHT that U2 played would necessarily have some non-hits in the setlist since they don't have enough bonafide hits to fill a set.

As I've said, the one thing that could potentially save 360 from being a GHT is the presence of 3-4 new songs and 1-2 unreleased songs. But the fact that the NLOTH songs dropped from 7 down to 3 or 4, and the fact that 2/3 of the unreleased songs are just bare sketches, doesn't exactly fill one with confidence that U2 are NOT going down the Greatest Hits road.

The definition of what constitutes a 'greatest hits' tour is problematic and is clearly in dispute.  As long as U2 continue to play new songs (even just 4 or 5), this makes it impossible to overcome the evidential burden of proof that U2 are guilty of putting on a 'greatest hits' show.

THIS IS GOING TO BE MY LAST POST IN THIS DISCUSSION as it's doing my head in.





Offline The Exile

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Re: What WOULD a U2's Greatest Hits Tour Look Like?
« Reply #40 on: September 05, 2010, 05:50:10 PM »
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It seems like some people, their effort to defend U2's honor, are defining a GHT in such a way that U2 cannot engage in one even if they wanted to.

For example, when people say things like, "U2 played UTEOTW last night, and that's not a greatest hit. Therefore, 360 is not a greatest hits tour." But as I've been trying to point out, that's the wrong way to go about determining it. My response would be, "If U2 WERE to launch a GHT, it would most definitely include UTEOTW. Therefore, their having played it on the 360 tour cannot be evidence against its being a GHT." Any GHT that U2 played would necessarily have some non-hits in the setlist since they don't have enough bonafide hits to fill a set.

As I've said, the one thing that could potentially save 360 from being a GHT is the presence of 3-4 new songs and 1-2 unreleased songs. But the fact that the NLOTH songs dropped from 7 down to 3 or 4, and the fact that 2/3 of the unreleased songs are just bare sketches, doesn't exactly fill one with confidence that U2 are NOT going down the Greatest Hits road.

The definition of what constitutes a 'greatest hits' tour is problematic and is clearly in dispute.  As long as U2 continue to play new songs (even just 4 or 5), this makes it impossible to overcome the evidential burden of proof that U2 are guilty of putting on a 'greatest hits' show.

THIS IS GOING TO BE MY LAST POST IN THIS DISCUSSION as it's doing my head in.






I agree, it's the definition of a GHT that is the issue here. My point is not to say that 360 is a GHT (I haven't gone that far), but simply to argue that we need to have a definition of a GHT that actually makes it possible that U2 could play one. In other words, in our zeal to guard U2's honor we mustn't define a GHT in such a way that the band couldn't even theoretically be involved in one.

Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: What WOULD a U2's Greatest Hits Tour Look Like?
« Reply #41 on: September 05, 2010, 05:55:08 PM »
Can I just ask, The Exile, ah, is all this a joke, are you trying to make a point about all this preoccupation with set-lists etc and how absurd it's become?





Offline The Exile

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Re: What WOULD a U2's Greatest Hits Tour Look Like?
« Reply #42 on: September 05, 2010, 06:07:31 PM »
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Can I just ask, The Exile, ah, is all this a joke, are you trying to make a point about all this preoccupation with set-lists etc and how absurd it's become?






I thought you were bowing out of this discussion....

I'm not taking the pi*s (as you Brits say), I'm just trying to help this ongoing discussion along by focusing our attention a bit. It's a waste of time to say, "I think a GHT looks like X. U2 is not doing X. Therefore, U2 is not engaged in a GHT." Rather, what we need to do is ask what a GHT as performed by U2 would look like. My argument is that it would look remarkably similar to the 360 Tour, with some exceptions.

But hey, clear thinking's not for everyone, so....

Offline ciaz

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Re: What WOULD a U2's Greatest Hits Tour Look Like?
« Reply #43 on: September 05, 2010, 06:23:04 PM »
Some really good discussion here.

Exile, even though I don't agree with all your points, I really appreciate your posts. Reading them is thought provoking and they are written with sound logic and clearly.

The most recent point you make I do agree with, actually.

Some people say that UTEOTW is not a greatest hit, because it wasn't a single. Yet others say it has to be, because it is a live staple and on a Best Of CD.

I think a U2 greatest hits tour would include UTEOTW. From reading this thread, I'm starting to slide more towards thinking the 360 tour is slightly a greatest hits tour - though, the inclusion of some curve-balls and new songs alleviates this.

I'm starting to sit more on the fence on this issue. I could see why some fans think u2360 is, but there are certain factors that prevent it, via definition, from being a greatest hits show. New, unreleased songs would never feature in a greatest hits show.

Offline The Exile

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Re: What WOULD a U2's Greatest Hits Tour Look Like?
« Reply #44 on: September 05, 2010, 06:34:03 PM »
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Some people say that UTEOTW is not a greatest hit, because it wasn't a single. Yet others say it has to be, because it is a live staple and on a Best Of CD.

I think a U2 greatest hits tour would include UTEOTW.

Exactly. So if a U2 GHT would include UTEOTW, then it is illegitimate to appeal to that song in the 360 setlist to prove that 360 is not a GHT. Now we're getting somewhere!