Author Topic: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel  (Read 25575 times)

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Offline soloyan

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #120 on: December 23, 2010, 09:23:16 AM »
I have to say... Seeing U2 in Paris in 2010 is the first time I thought it wasn't worth what I'd paid for it.

I had seen the 2 Paris shows in 2009. This 2010 leg just didn't make sense. It was just U2 playing it safe. And I've seen each tour since 1989.

1/the set list is a mix of different things but there's a lack of meaning overall, except "we're good at what we're doing, don't you think ?". There's no direction.

2/yes it's a good show. But from the U2ers, I've been expecting more than just a show. I want a meaning.

3/it's probably the less spontaneous live music experience I've had in my life. Listening to earpiece bootlegs is really scary and explains a lot : those guys are now unable to play if there isn't some computer giving them tempo, tone and GPS as to where they are in the f****** tune ? ("verse-1-2-3-4")

3/When I first saw 360, it was really early in the tour, 3 weeks in. My first thought was that the whole 360 concept was not achieved yet. I did compare it at the time with Peter Gabriel's Growing Up tour which used this concept a lot better, IMO. Well, a whole year later, nothing much changed about that...

4/I remember that during the 2 previous tours a lot of people were complaining about having Bullet the Blue Sky in the set list again. Well, what turned me into U2 as a teenager was contrast. Between the hymns and the dark places of the soul. It's just not there anymore. Bullet is missing, SBS lost its impact.

5/Bono's speeches. Having Bono discussing about human rights in... Burma when he is playing in the country where the Human Rights were born, at a moment as we see the government taking action against gypsies for just being gypsies is a major let down. I guess you can't be friends with the french president and tell him when he's wrong... What was "Stuck in a moment" about, anyway ?

I still love U2. I love NLOTH. But I think something's gone forever. Like when they release "Wide awake in Europe", but not in... Europe, when they offer records in a competition but are unable to give SIGNED items like Coldplay or so many other bands do on a regular basis... I think we stopped living in the same world.

The Promenade

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #121 on: December 23, 2010, 09:44:31 AM »
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I have to say... Seeing U2 in Paris in 2010 is the first time I thought it wasn't worth what I'd paid for it.

I had seen the 2 Paris shows in 2009. This 2010 leg just didn't make sense. It was just U2 playing it safe. And I've seen each tour since 1989.

1/the set list is a mix of different things but there's a lack of meaning overall, except "we're good at what we're doing, don't you think ?". There's no direction.

2/yes it's a good show. But from the U2ers, I've been expecting more than just a show. I want a meaning.

3/it's probably the less spontaneous live music experience I've had in my life. Listening to earpiece bootlegs is really scary and explains a lot : those guys are now unable to play if there isn't some computer giving them tempo, tone and GPS as to where they are in the f****** tune ? ("verse-1-2-3-4")

3/When I first saw 360, it was really early in the tour, 3 weeks in. My first thought was that the whole 360 concept was not achieved yet. I did compare it at the time with Peter Gabriel's Growing Up tour which used this concept a lot better, IMO. Well, a whole year later, nothing much changed about that...

4/I remember that during the 2 previous tours a lot of people were complaining about having Bullet the Blue Sky in the set list again. Well, what turned me into U2 as a teenager was contrast. Between the hymns and the dark places of the soul. It's just not there anymore. Bullet is missing, SBS lost its impact.

5/Bono's speeches. Having Bono discussing about human rights in... Burma when he is playing in the country where the Human Rights were born, at a moment as we see the government taking action against gypsies for just being gypsies is a major let down. I guess you can't be friends with the french president and tell him when he's wrong... What was "Stuck in a moment" about, anyway ?

I still love U2. I love NLOTH. But I think something's gone forever. Like when they release "Wide awake in Europe", but not in... Europe, when they offer records in a competition but are unable to give SIGNED items like Coldplay or so many other bands do on a regular basis... I think we stopped living in the same world.

<I still love U2. I love NLOTH. But I think something's gone forever. Like when they release "Wide awake in Europe", but not in... Europe, when they offer records in a competition but are unable to give SIGNED items like Coldplay or so many other bands do on a regular basis... I think we stopped living in the same world.>

Couldn't have put it better myself...

Offline MarsGirl

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #122 on: December 23, 2010, 10:01:25 AM »
Okay, now I wish I could remove myself from this thread so I stop getting updates from it.  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( Frakkin' depressing. I'm going back to the BRMW thread where there's only the positive energy of hot Bono pictures.

Offline Starman

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #123 on: December 23, 2010, 10:12:54 AM »
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I have to say... Seeing U2 in Paris in 2010 is the first time I thought it wasn't worth what I'd paid for it.

I had seen the 2 Paris shows in 2009. This 2010 leg just didn't make sense. It was just U2 playing it safe. And I've seen each tour since 1989.

1/the set list is a mix of different things but there's a lack of meaning overall, except "we're good at what we're doing, don't you think ?". There's no direction.

2/yes it's a good show. But from the U2ers, I've been expecting more than just a show. I want a meaning.

3/it's probably the less spontaneous live music experience I've had in my life. Listening to earpiece bootlegs is really scary and explains a lot : those guys are now unable to play if there isn't some computer giving them tempo, tone and GPS as to where they are in the f****** tune ? ("verse-1-2-3-4")

3/When I first saw 360, it was really early in the tour, 3 weeks in. My first thought was that the whole 360 concept was not achieved yet. I did compare it at the time with Peter Gabriel's Growing Up tour which used this concept a lot better, IMO. Well, a whole year later, nothing much changed about that...

4/I remember that during the 2 previous tours a lot of people were complaining about having Bullet the Blue Sky in the set list again. Well, what turned me into U2 as a teenager was contrast. Between the hymns and the dark places of the soul. It's just not there anymore. Bullet is missing, SBS lost its impact.

5/Bono's speeches. Having Bono discussing about human rights in... Burma when he is playing in the country where the Human Rights were born, at a moment as we see the government taking action against gypsies for just being gypsies is a major let down. I guess you can't be friends with the french president and tell him when he's wrong... What was "Stuck in a moment" about, anyway ?

I still love U2. I love NLOTH. But I think something's gone forever. Like when they release "Wide awake in Europe", but not in... Europe, when they offer records in a competition but are unable to give SIGNED items like Coldplay or so many other bands do on a regular basis... I think we stopped living in the same world.

Well said!

Offline The Exile

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #124 on: December 23, 2010, 11:06:14 AM »
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Okay, now I wish I could remove myself from this thread so I stop getting updates from it.  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( Frakkin' depressing. I'm going back to the BRMW thread where there's only the positive energy of hot Bono pictures.

This is not directed at MarsGirl specifically, but I think that people who only love everything U2 does and have no complaints or criticisms should limit themselves to the "Band" section of the forum. This page is called "General U2 Discussion," and it's pretty hard to discuss anything when everything thinks alike and no one can entertain an alternate point of view. U2 fans are passionate people, and sometimes loving something a lot results in getting upset when potential is not met. The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference, since you have to love something to criticize it.

So for the newer listeners, the kids, or the fainthearted, just stick to the "Band" page and to topics like, "Bono Rocks My World," "Isn't Edge the Awesommest?", and "What Do You All Think Larry's Favorite Flavor of Ice Cream Is?" Because in the "Discussion" section, we're going to have grown-up conversations, and it's gonna get heated sometimes.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2010, 11:43:50 AM by The Exile »

Offline MarsGirl

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #125 on: December 23, 2010, 11:26:31 AM »
I'm lot a lalala love everything U2 does kind of person. I have criticisms. I just think sometimes people here are a little TOO critical. To the point where it doesnt even seem like you like the band at all. That's what I find annoying. Depressing. I do see that their live shows are not what they used to be, but they're also 50... voices change, people get old... blah blah blah. I accept them for what they are now. Although, really, I think NLOTH is one of the best releases they've done in this decade.... And as much as I like songs on Pop, I do think that album was a bit of a drifting around lyrically and musically....

The Promenade

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #126 on: December 23, 2010, 11:43:54 AM »
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I'm lot a lalala love everything U2 does kind of person. I have criticisms. I just think sometimes people here are a little TOO critical. To the point where it doesnt even seem like you like the band at all. That's what I find annoying. Depressing. I do see that their live shows are not what they used to be, but they're also 50... voices change, people get old... blah blah blah. I accept them for what they are now. Although, really, I think NLOTH is one of the best releases they've done in this decade.... And as much as I like songs on Pop, I do think that album was a bit of a drifting around lyrically and musically....

Criticism or praise is relative - it's also a matter of opinion.

Perhaps some of us (ie me, apparently) are TOO critical - equally perhaps others are too gushing about Boon and his chums.

That said, both opposites stimulate debate which, in a democracy (which this forum alleges to be), can never be a bad thing...

Offline The Exile

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #127 on: December 23, 2010, 11:46:01 AM »
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I'm lot a lalala love everything U2 does kind of person. I have criticisms. I just think sometimes people here are a little TOO critical. To the point where it doesnt even seem like you like the band at all. That's what I find annoying. Depressing. I do see that their live shows are not what they used to be, but they're also 50... voices change, people get old... blah blah blah. I accept them for what they are now. Although, really, I think NLOTH is one of the best releases they've done in this decade.... And as much as I like songs on Pop, I do think that album was a bit of a drifting around lyrically and musically....

Yes, but what some people (including you lately) seem to be doing is drawing the line that constitutes acceptable criticism right where you happen to land, so that anyone who is more critical than you is "way too critical" (while your own level of criticism is just fine). And ironically, that makes you very critical of others (!).

Offline MarsGirl

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #128 on: December 23, 2010, 11:54:34 AM »
I get a little emotionally hurt when people rip on my favorite songs. So it causes me to kick back. Esp since some of those songs really have some strong meaning to me, they did something for me, and then someone comes along and openly calls them "trivial" or "garbage." How's that supposed to make me feel? Am I trivial cuz I like a so-called trivial song? Simple-minded and dull? Look, I don't like some U2 songs (Mofo!!) But you won't read me listing my dislike of it in an insulting way that makes someone who enjoys the song feel like you've ripped from them something they find meaningful. I just ask that we are a little less cruel with our criticism... That's all. I am sad for all you people who are so disappointed byt U2 shows now. I think they're awesome right now and Bono's on fire. His voice sounds great.

The Promenade

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #129 on: December 23, 2010, 12:09:57 PM »
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I get a little emotionally hurt when people rip on my favorite songs. So it causes me to kick back. Esp since some of those songs really have some strong meaning to me, they did something for me, and then someone comes along and openly calls them "trivial" or "garbage." How's that supposed to make me feel? Am I trivial cuz I like a so-called trivial song? Simple-minded and dull? Look, I don't like some U2 songs (Mofo!!) But you won't read me listing my dislike of it in an insulting way that makes someone who enjoys the song feel like you've ripped from them something they find meaningful. I just ask that we are a little less cruel with our criticism... That's all. I am sad for all you people who are so disappointed byt U2 shows now. I think they're awesome right now and Bono's on fire. His voice sounds great.

As Exile said, this is a place for debate, not sentimentality - you can still dig the tunes you dig - it doesn't matter what anyone says about them. I think Boots, and, say Pride are garbage and can give perfectly reasonable reasons why. You might love Boots and Pride which is good for you - and you also can give perfectly reasonable reasons why. Therein lies the definition of debate...

Offline The Exile

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #130 on: December 23, 2010, 12:10:17 PM »
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I get a little emotionally hurt when people rip on my favorite songs. So it causes me to kick back. Esp since some of those songs really have some strong meaning to me, they did something for me, and then someone comes along and openly calls them "trivial" or "garbage." How's that supposed to make me feel? Am I trivial cuz I like a so-called trivial song? Simple-minded and dull? Look, I don't like some U2 songs (Mofo!!) But you won't read me listing my dislike of it in an insulting way that makes someone who enjoys the song feel like you've ripped from them something they find meaningful. I just ask that we are a little less cruel with our criticism... That's all. I am sad for all you people who are so disappointed byt U2 shows now. I think they're awesome right now and Bono's on fire. His voice sounds great.

Fair enough, and if I have ever been "insultingly critical" then I hope you'll accept my apology (but I certainly try not to be, and I always try to make my criticisms constructive and accompanied by examples of why I am saying what I am saying as well as proposals for how things could be better).

It's just that art is a subjective thing, and when it's out there for public consumption, that means that the public gets to like or dislike it, and give their reasons why.

Offline gnmmet

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #131 on: December 23, 2010, 12:13:01 PM »
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I'm lot a lalala love everything U2 does kind of person. I have criticisms. I just think sometimes people here are a little TOO critical. To the point where it doesnt even seem like you like the band at all. That's what I find annoying. Depressing. I do see that their live shows are not what they used to be, but they're also 50... voices change, people get old... blah blah blah. I accept them for what they are now. Although, really, I think NLOTH is one of the best releases they've done in this decade.... And as much as I like songs on Pop, I do think that album was a bit of a drifting around lyrically and musically....

Yes, but what some people (including you lately) seem to be doing is drawing the line that constitutes acceptable criticism right where you happen to land, so that anyone who is more critical than you is "way too critical" (while your own level of criticism is just fine). And ironically, that makes you very critical of others (!).

Ehh, She's kinda got a point.

There's a difference between whining and criticism.

Complaining that Adams bassline on Streets is "too groovy" well thats whining. While saying that U2 need to take more risks with the setlist is criticism.

Saying that Bono messing up one syllable completely ruins a song is whining, while complaining about a lack of spontaneity in the tour is not.

Saying that U2 lives in a different world from yourself because they won't release autographed albums is whining; as is saying that U2 are the same as The Rolling Stones because they have both used bridges and the same tax guy. But complaining about U2 skirting tax laws and the lack of new songs played on the last leg is not.

There have been some concerns raised here that I disagree with, but respect. Unfortunately I feel like some of them are being drowned out by a mass of whining...


The Promenade

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #132 on: December 23, 2010, 12:29:45 PM »
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I'm lot a lalala love everything U2 does kind of person. I have criticisms. I just think sometimes people here are a little TOO critical. To the point where it doesnt even seem like you like the band at all. That's what I find annoying. Depressing. I do see that their live shows are not what they used to be, but they're also 50... voices change, people get old... blah blah blah. I accept them for what they are now. Although, really, I think NLOTH is one of the best releases they've done in this decade.... And as much as I like songs on Pop, I do think that album was a bit of a drifting around lyrically and musically....

Yes, but what some people (including you lately) seem to be doing is drawing the line that constitutes acceptable criticism right where you happen to land, so that anyone who is more critical than you is "way too critical" (while your own level of criticism is just fine). And ironically, that makes you very critical of others (!).

Ehh, She's kinda got a point.

There's a difference between whining and criticism.

Complaining that Adams bassline on Streets is "too groovy" well thats whining. While saying that U2 need to take more risks with the setlist is criticism.

Saying that Bono messing up one syllable completely ruins a song is whining, while complaining about a lack of spontaneity in the tour is not.

Saying that U2 lives in a different world from yourself because they won't release autographed albums is whining; as is saying that U2 are the same as The Rolling Stones because they have both used bridges and the same tax guy. But complaining about U2 skirting tax laws and the lack of new songs played on the last leg is not.

There have been some concerns raised here that I disagree with, but respect. Unfortunately I feel like some of them are being drowned out by a mass of whining...



That's good for you - and your opinion.

However, your definition of whining is not necessarily someone else's definition - there is no such thing as objective opinion which is, what I presume, you think your opinion might be.

Here:

<Complaining that Adams bassline on Streets is "too groovy" well thats whining. While saying that U2 need to take more risks with the setlist is criticism.
Saying that Bono messing up one syllable completely ruins a song is whining, while complaining about a lack of spontaneity in the tour is not.
Saying that U2 lives in a different world from yourself because they won't release autographed albums is whining; as is saying that U2 are the same as The Rolling Stones because they have both used bridges and the same tax guy. But complaining about U2 skirting tax laws and the lack of new songs played on the last leg is not. >

You are stating opinion as fact...
« Last Edit: December 23, 2010, 12:31:17 PM by The Promenade »

Offline MarsGirl

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #133 on: December 23, 2010, 12:40:54 PM »
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I get a little emotionally hurt when people rip on my favorite songs. So it causes me to kick back. Esp since some of those songs really have some strong meaning to me, they did something for me, and then someone comes along and openly calls them "trivial" or "garbage." How's that supposed to make me feel? Am I trivial cuz I like a so-called trivial song? Simple-minded and dull? Look, I don't like some U2 songs (Mofo!!) But you won't read me listing my dislike of it in an insulting way that makes someone who enjoys the song feel like you've ripped from them something they find meaningful. I just ask that we are a little less cruel with our criticism... That's all. I am sad for all you people who are so disappointed byt U2 shows now. I think they're awesome right now and Bono's on fire. His voice sounds great.

Fair enough, and if I have ever been "insultingly critical" then I hope you'll accept my apology (but I certainly try not to be, and I always try to make my criticisms constructive and accompanied by examples of why I am saying what I am saying as well as proposals for how things could be better).

It's just that art is a subjective thing, and when it's out there for public consumption, that means that the public gets to like or dislike it, and give their reasons why.

Fair enough. And I'll stop whining about everyone whining. I'll just keep my mouth shut when a thread is ticking me off, too, if I really have no constructive criticism to add. ;)

And just dont bash Breathe. ;) It's one of my favorite songs and I'm a little more than emotionally attached to it. Cockatoos and all. ;)

Anyway, art is a subjective thing.

Offline Miami66

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #134 on: December 23, 2010, 02:48:08 PM »
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It was just U2 playing it safe.

This post alone makes your entire argument fall apart