Author Topic: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel  (Read 25857 times)

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Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #165 on: December 25, 2010, 01:09:42 PM »
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Again, comparing CD sales from 1995 and 2009 is like comparing the market of... Say, panda bear fur in the 1800's and now.

Sort of.

FYI I've been selling records from 1997 through 2008. Guess whyI changed job ?

I'm comparing album sales in any format.

If you want another comparison; Zooropa sold 7 Million copies in 1993, where as The Stones Voodoo Lounge sold 6 Million in 1994.





This you CAN compare : both are CD sales from the same timeframe.

What you cannot compare is a cd/tickets sales ratio from 1995 Vs a cd/tickets sales ratio nowadays... Totally different maket. To give you an idea : a concert ticket was 3-5 times the prive of a Cd whereas now it's an average 10-15 times...

In which case, these days people must MUCH rather see a U2 concert where they play hits and warhorses than want to hear their new music.



Offline soloyan

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #166 on: December 25, 2010, 01:19:44 PM »
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Again, comparing CD sales from 1995 and 2009 is like comparing the market of... Say, panda bear fur in the 1800's and now.

Sort of.

FYI I've been selling records from 1997 through 2008. Guess whyI changed job ?

I'm comparing album sales in any format.

If you want another comparison; Zooropa sold 7 Million copies in 1993, where as The Stones Voodoo Lounge sold 6 Million in 1994.





This you CAN compare : both are CD sales from the same timeframe.

What you cannot compare is a cd/tickets sales ratio from 1995 Vs a cd/tickets sales ratio nowadays... Totally different maket. To give you an idea : a concert ticket was 3-5 times the prive of a Cd whereas now it's an average 10-15 times...

In which case, these days people must MUCH rather see a U2 concert where they play hits and warhorses than want to hear their new music.




??? Have you heard about illegal downloading or piracy ? I give up. Merry Christmas !

Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #167 on: December 25, 2010, 01:23:27 PM »
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Again, comparing CD sales from 1995 and 2009 is like comparing the market of... Say, panda bear fur in the 1800's and now.

Sort of.

FYI I've been selling records from 1997 through 2008. Guess whyI changed job ?

I'm comparing album sales in any format.

If you want another comparison; Zooropa sold 7 Million copies in 1993, where as The Stones Voodoo Lounge sold 6 Million in 1994.





This you CAN compare : both are CD sales from the same timeframe.

What you cannot compare is a cd/tickets sales ratio from 1995 Vs a cd/tickets sales ratio nowadays... Totally different maket. To give you an idea : a concert ticket was 3-5 times the prive of a Cd whereas now it's an average 10-15 times...

In which case, these days people must MUCH rather see a U2 concert where they play hits and warhorses than want to hear their new music.




??? Have you heard about illegal downloading or piracy ? I give up. Merry Christmas !

Merry Christmas. :)

If illegal downloading and piracy is that commonplace, I'm amazed that U2 even bother making any more albums.



Offline xy

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #168 on: December 25, 2010, 01:33:24 PM »
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I paid 150 for a great seat at the O2 arena in London to see The Stones in 2007, but I'll be damned if I'd pay the 150 being charged for a ticket to see U2360 at Wembley Stadium.  I would, however, happily pay 150 to see U2 at the O2.

In 1994/95, 6 Million people bought a copy of the Stones Voodoo Lounge and 6.6 Million went to see the Voodoo lounge tour.

In 2009/11, 4 Million people bought a copy of U2's No Line On The Horizon and between 7 - 8 Million will have seen the 360 by tour end.

What does these figures suggest?





You prefer arenas to stadiums.

In the same point of their career/same age, more people will go see U2 compared to the Stones.

I thought you might have concluded that U2 sell almost 2 concert tickets for every copy of their new music sold, where as the Stones, at the same point in their career, sold nearly 1 album of their new music for every concert ticket sold.

What does that suggest?






More people will go see U2 compared to the Stones. Like I said a little while ago ?

I also think it's noteworthy that the Stones comeback album sold only a million more copies than U2's quickie, mid-tour EP-turned album.


Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #169 on: December 25, 2010, 01:36:53 PM »
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I paid 150 for a great seat at the O2 arena in London to see The Stones in 2007, but I'll be damned if I'd pay the 150 being charged for a ticket to see U2360 at Wembley Stadium.  I would, however, happily pay 150 to see U2 at the O2.

In 1994/95, 6 Million people bought a copy of the Stones Voodoo Lounge and 6.6 Million went to see the Voodoo lounge tour.

In 2009/11, 4 Million people bought a copy of U2's No Line On The Horizon and between 7 - 8 Million will have seen the 360 by tour end.

What does these figures suggest?





You prefer arenas to stadiums.

In the same point of their career/same age, more people will go see U2 compared to the Stones.

I thought you might have concluded that U2 sell almost 2 concert tickets for every copy of their new music sold, where as the Stones, at the same point in their career, sold nearly 1 album of their new music for every concert ticket sold.

What does that suggest?






More people will go see U2 compared to the Stones. Like I said a little while ago ?

I also think it's noteworthy that the Stones comeback album sold only a million more copies than U2's quickie, mid-tour EP-turned album.



Then it can't be a comeback album then. ::) Voodoo Lounge, on the othe hand, sold 6 million copies - 2 million more than NLOTH - at the same stage of their careers as U2 today.


Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #170 on: December 25, 2010, 01:42:47 PM »
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I paid 150 for a great seat at the O2 arena in London to see The Stones in 2007, but I'll be damned if I'd pay the 150 being charged for a ticket to see U2360 at Wembley Stadium.  I would, however, happily pay 150 to see U2 at the O2.

In 1994/95, 6 Million people bought a copy of the Stones Voodoo Lounge and 6.6 Million went to see the Voodoo lounge tour.

In 2009/11, 4 Million people bought a copy of U2's No Line On The Horizon and between 7 - 8 Million will have seen the 360 by tour end.

What does these figures suggest?





You prefer arenas to stadiums.

In the same point of their career/same age, more people will go see U2 compared to the Stones.

I thought you might have concluded that U2 sell almost 2 concert tickets for every copy of their new music sold, where as the Stones, at the same point in their career, sold nearly 1 album of their new music for every concert ticket sold.

What does that suggest?


More people will go see U2 compared to the Stones. Like I said a little while ago ?


I thought you might have concluded that far more people who go to see a U2 concert today are more likely to be unfamiliar with U2's new music than the people that went to see the Stones on the Voodoo Lounge tour were unfamiliar with the Stones new music. ;)



Offline singnomore

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #171 on: December 26, 2010, 01:04:23 AM »
Its probably been said elsewhere on his thread (I haven't read it all) but U2 live is a different experience - not really anything to do with stage design or set lists but its all about accessibility.

I've seen every tour since War (minus PoP) and for me it was a novelty factor to see the band live as media hadn't really developed the way it has now. U2 have chosen to use media to help promote sales etc and that popularity means more people are interested than ever in them. We therefore get more insights around the band and in particular the music. I still have my bootleg cassette of the U2 War show i was at - cant play it - but to get something like that then (god i souind old) was quite something. Now you go onto Youtube and pick your song, pick your interview.

So i totally get why people feel different within themselves about the shows - but I suspect its down to accessability, increased familiarity (in a live sense) and media

Offline codeguy

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #172 on: December 28, 2010, 08:38:36 AM »
I agree. Audience members sitting down? Shouting louder for the old songs, not the new ones?

Still, I respect what U2 is doing here. The last two tours were all about the core fans. This is for the casual fans. It's a great spectacle and they get to see U2 in a stadium. I know, I know, the stadium is supposed to be U2's home, and no-one looks more comfortable than U2 performing in front of 70,000 people, but U2 is at its best in front of 20,000 people indoors where the music is louder and the fans are more hardcore and you can play songs like Miss Sarajevo, The Electric Co, BAD, The Fly etc and give the core fans a spine-tingling experience. This tour is not that tour. The next one probably will be. In the meantime, sadly, this tour will be remembered as their best simply because it's about to go into the record books as the biggest music tour in history.

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #173 on: December 28, 2010, 12:16:40 PM »
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In the meantime, sadly, this tour will be remembered as their best simply because it's about to go into the record books as the biggest music tour in history.
Best by what measure? Biggest doesnt mean the best. The 360 pales into insignificance compared to Joshua Tree and Zoo Tv tours, on every front...apart from attendance! Them two tours will go down in Tour Folklore...360 wont!

Offline vertigo 77

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #174 on: December 28, 2010, 06:39:18 PM »
You have a point Smee biggest doesn't mean the best. I have yet to hear most say the best tour probably in the last 2 years. The ROI, investments, and endorsements are indisputable but the question now remains after the tour will U2 be revelant and evolve or be label as your parents' band? If Spider-man flops and their 2-3 albums suck then the conversation will be "U2 used to have great music..." or "Why they becoming annoying..."

Offline CrossingGo

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #175 on: December 28, 2010, 07:36:05 PM »
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You have a point Smee biggest doesn't mean the best. I have yet to hear most say the best tour probably in the last 2 years. The ROI, investments, and endorsements are indisputable but the question now remains after the tour will U2 be revelant and evolve or be label as your parents' band? If Spider-man flops and their 2-3 albums suck then the conversation will be "U2 used to have great music..." or "Why they becoming annoying..."

That's the scariest thought ever.  U2 is the shiniest example (maybe the only?) of a band who can be huge, popular, powerful, lasting, and evolving throughout their whole career.  They should have died after Rattle & Hum.  But they came back strong.  They should have died after Pop.  But they flared up again with "Beautiful Day."   Now they're on the skids again, here at the end of another decade.  But the trouble is, they are older than ever (duh!  :P ), and you have to ask yourself....is this it?  Have U2 overstayed their relevancy?  Are they finally going to "jump the shark" and become tired?  If there are any Seinfeld fans out there, I've always hoped that U2 would leave us before they peaked, just like that show.  Bow out a little too early rather than a little too late, when the varnish is taken off and the beauty of the career is marred.

Not saying I think they're there.  Actually, I think they've got another couple albums at least.  But I would hate to have them end on a down note, after such a remarkable and unmatched career.  Please noooooooo!!!!

Offline MarsGirl

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #176 on: December 28, 2010, 08:05:16 PM »
I dont know if I agree with the whole concept of bowing out before a crash... As an artist myself (writer), that kind of bothers me. Like I write one or two good books, then I write a bad one, then I write another good one, should I bow out before I I write too many bad ones? I mean, in theory, I could keep writing books until I'm 80. I guess music is different because it takes younger people to tour.... But still... The concept of "retirement" as an artist kind bothers me. An artist is one job in which someone shouldnt have to officially retire. What are U2 going to do once they retire?! It's not like Edge and Bono can just stop making music. They've got it in their blood. They'll keep writing until they are physically unable to do so.... That's the thing about art... it doesnt stop in your head because you have.

Offline birdlover

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #177 on: December 28, 2010, 09:18:05 PM »
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I dont know if I agree with the whole concept of bowing out before a crash... As an artist myself (writer), that kind of bothers me. Like I write one or two good books, then I write a bad one, then I write another good one, should I bow out before I I write too many bad ones? I mean, in theory, I could keep writing books until I'm 80. I guess music is different because it takes younger people to tour.... But still... The concept of "retirement" as an artist kind bothers me. An artist is one job in which someone shouldnt have to officially retire. What are U2 going to do once they retire?! It's not like Edge and Bono can just stop making music. They've got it in their blood. They'll keep writing until they are physically unable to do so.... That's the thing about art... it doesnt stop in your head because you have.

Well said, MarsGirl! I recall an interview with Stephen King. He'd recently decided to stop publishing his work, not because he'd stop writing, but because of all the extra stuff, editing, PR and the like, that went with it. Wouldn't you know, he's back publishing again...He never stopped writing.
I don't think U2 will ever want to stop touring and recording. I don't want to think about what will cause them to.There is something to be said to being older than your favorite band.

Offline CrossingGo

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #178 on: December 28, 2010, 09:29:13 PM »
You make a great point, MarsGirl!  Definitely all four of the guys would need to continue making music.  Like a writer would keep writing.  And like Jerry Seinfeld kept being a comedian.  My thought is that at some point, if U2 just goes and goes and goes, they are going to evolve into the antithesis of what U2 has always been.  Fresh, bold, innovative, important, relevant, popular, vibrant, etc.  To do what they've always done takes energy, stamina, the desire to put life on hold for a couple years at a time, to be out on the road, to push and promote.  Not every band needs to do these things so intensely, but U2 does.  Know what I mean?  At some point though, life does change.  Age and experience change your priorities, your perspectives.  At some point the guys in U2, if they stay together and active, won't want to tour so much, won't feel so rushed to make a new album, won't feel such a strong desire to tear it all down and start from scratch.  It's natural, I think.  But when all that happens, whenever it will be, U2 will have lost all semblance of U2.

I guess what I've always assumed is that U2 will be such a class act that they will bow out before making two crap records in a row, or before becoming something altogether un-U2-like.  Maybe they go their separate ways.  Maybe they stay together and casually record as Passengers, working with other musicians and doing things more for the fun of it.  But if they start making polka records in 10 years....ick!  I mean, I'm sure they would be the greatest polka records of all time, but still.  I've just always assumed, and still do, that at some point they will put U2 to bed rather than truly become a greatest hits touring band, in their 70s and doing their best to hit the same notes.  Or becoming totally out of touch and playing to county fairs.

An author will keep on writing, but at some point you might retire the character or the series you are best known for, because you've run through every idea you can, and you're starting to repeat yourself, and you don't care so much anymore to tackle all those months of research and effort to get to the end result.  And you don't want the legacy to suffer at the tail end of things, when it's all slipping.  You might just retire that series and start something altogether new.

I know this is off-topic.  And I don't want to sound like I've got my fingers crossed that U2 call it quits soon.  But I do hope they lower the curtain before they've grown to become a sad shadow of what they were, so that the last image we have of them in the media is of has-been old rockers.

Offline The Exile

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #179 on: December 28, 2010, 10:20:48 PM »
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You have a point Smee biggest doesn't mean the best. I have yet to hear most say the best tour probably in the last 2 years. The ROI, investments, and endorsements are indisputable but the question now remains after the tour will U2 be revelant and evolve or be label as your parents' band? If Spider-man flops and their 2-3 albums suck then the conversation will be "U2 used to have great music..." or "Why they becoming annoying..."

That's the scariest thought ever.  U2 is the shiniest example (maybe the only?) of a band who can be huge, popular, powerful, lasting, and evolving throughout their whole career.  They should have died after Rattle & Hum.  But they came back strong.  They should have died after Pop.  But they flared up again with "Beautiful Day."   Now they're on the skids again, here at the end of another decade.  But the trouble is, they are older than ever (duh!  :P ), and you have to ask yourself....is this it?  Have U2 overstayed their relevancy?  Are they finally going to "jump the shark" and become tired?  If there are any Seinfeld fans out there, I've always hoped that U2 would leave us before they peaked, just like that show.  Bow out a little too early rather than a little too late, when the varnish is taken off and the beauty of the career is marred.

Not saying I think they're there.  Actually, I think they've got another couple albums at least.  But I would hate to have them end on a down note, after such a remarkable and unmatched career.  Please noooooooo!!!!

Well, to accomplish what you suggest then they should definitely make 360 their final tour. There is no way they can top it. But I agree with you that they should continue to record and release music.