Author Topic: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel  (Read 25618 times)

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Offline Bads316

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #90 on: December 22, 2010, 03:06:39 PM »
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And who cares how you define it? If you think 360 is a soulless greatest hits show, then don't go and quit whining that it's no longer ZooTV. You people act like old men sitting around in the room talking about how everything was better in "the old days" and everything sucks today. I'm getting tired of all the whining here.

by eck lass but it were....

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Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #91 on: December 22, 2010, 03:08:59 PM »
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360 and Vertigo being Greatest hits shows ?

Not really. Having 7 or more new songs in the set, bringing out rarities* and having almost half of the set from the last decade. Not to mention opening with 4 new song in a row, and premiering 5 unreleased songs.

* The Stones are more than 15 years older - of course they have a bigger catalogue to pick from. However, when was the last time they had 7 songs off the last album in the set ? And no one has cared for their recorded output for more than 20 years...the only reason people see them it's because it's the Stones, and they do have a good live show.

1994.  At exactly the same stage in their careers as U2 are at now. ;)

And at the same stage as U2 releasing NLOTH which sold 4 million copies, The Stones released Voodoo Lounge which sold 6 million and won them a Grammy for best Rock Album - so hardly the case that "no one has cared for their recorded output for more than 20 years."

I think the only reason that people go to see a U2 show is because it's U2 and they put on a good live show of mainly hits and warhorses, just like the Stones.




We can equate 4 millions sold in 2009 with 6 millions sold in 1994 because... ?

U2 has won plenty of Grammys with ATYCLB and HTDAAB. Furthermore they had huge hits with BD and Vertigo which eclipse anything off Vodoo Lunge. And yes, no one has cared for Stones' output post 1980. See U2 which did well right up until NLOTH, and even that can be attributed to albums selling less for EVERYONE and having a weak lead single.

Some go to see the hits and because "it's U2", yes. But a lot less so compared to the Stones.

Well, you have absolutely no objective way of proving your last statement. ;)

The fact that U2 have had more hits in recent years proves that U2 are more of a greatest hits preoccupied band than The Rolling Stones.  As Keef Richards says: We stopped making hit records in 1968 and started making albums. ;)

Further evidence that U2 have already become like the modern Rolling Stones is;

They are now using bridges as part of their stage sets, which the Stones first did on the Bridges to babylon tour;

They are beating the Stones at their own game with 360 which by tour end will become the highest grossing corporate rock tour and the most attended in history;

U2 are now being advised in tax avoidance by the same Dutch guy that has advised the Stones in tax avoidance for decades.




Offline MarsGirl

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #92 on: December 22, 2010, 03:34:14 PM »
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You people act like old men sitting around in the room talking about how everything was better in "the old days" and everything sucks today. I'm getting tired of all the whining here.


You call this whining? You want to hear whining, you should have been around back in the '90s. Now THAT was whining!


You mean on here, the forum? ;) Cuz, otherwise, I did exist--and as an adult--in the 1990s. ;) Well, I mean, I was adult during MOST of the 90s. Though I graduated from college the year Pop was released. ;)

Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #93 on: December 22, 2010, 03:36:19 PM »
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You people act like old men sitting around in the room talking about how everything was better in "the old days" and everything sucks today. I'm getting tired of all the whining here.


You call this whining? You want to hear whining, you should have been around back in the '90s. Now THAT was whining!


You mean on here, the forum? ;) Cuz, otherwise, I did exist--and as an adult--in the 1990s. ;) Well, I mean, I was adult during MOST of the 90s. Though I graduated from college the year Pop was released. ;)

I remember a lot of whining about U2 around the time of Pop/PopMart.



Offline MarsGirl

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #94 on: December 22, 2010, 03:38:30 PM »
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You people act like old men sitting around in the room talking about how everything was better in "the old days" and everything sucks today. I'm getting tired of all the whining here.


You call this whining? You want to hear whining, you should have been around back in the '90s. Now THAT was whining!


You mean on here, the forum? ;) Cuz, otherwise, I did exist--and as an adult--in the 1990s. ;) Well, I mean, I was adult during MOST of the 90s. Though I graduated from college the year Pop was released. ;)

I remember a lot of whining about U2 around the time of Pop/PopMart.




I admittedly fell out of love with them momentarily between 1997 and 2001. Not their fault, though: my life kind of happened. They came back into my life at a time when I needed them, though. I'm still kicking myself for not going to ZooTV or PopMart concerts. Had I done so, I might be whining right now with the rest of you, I guess. ;) I was sadly too young to go to any concerts before ZooTV...

Offline ian ryan

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #95 on: December 22, 2010, 08:12:01 PM »
I haven't read through all the pages in this thread, but I have to say I'm enjoying this tour as much as the previous ones. Part of it is that I'm getting to see them in stadiums, which is their natural habitat in my opinion. Part of it is what they're not playing. They've barely touched Bullet the Blue Sky, New Year's Day, Pride, Desire, and I Will Follow. I love all of those songs, but they were all in need of a breather. They are still playing a show that is full of hits, and they are lucky that they have so many hits to pick from, but the fact that they're willing to give those songs a break when they could be playing them still is a very positive thing for me on this tour. I think my biggest complaint is how many NLOTH songs they've dropped over the past couple legs. I freaking love the live versions of NLOTH and Breathe, and it's a shame they're not including them.

Offline RiverEuphrates

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #96 on: December 22, 2010, 09:36:55 PM »
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Try as I might I get no feeling from 'The Claw'.  To me it's dystopian. It does not fit into the U2 aesthetic, there's no reference to No Line (but I believe it was always called the '360 Tour' anyway?).  So following the logic, the set up is to fill as many seats as possible, and along with the BBerry sponsorship, the 'for love or for money?' question lurks-  I have nothing against making money BTW.

I put that aside and enjoyed both shows in summer '09, but I would agree there was something missing.  Some of it was due to me- not least from seeing Springsteen a few times prior (no bells and whistles, just songs.)

The stage, with the lights, screens etc... actually take away from the intimacy- it might be me, but Zoo TV did not have that problem, mostly because Zoo TV fit with Achtung Baby and U2's direction at the time.  But with 360 there is no clue of that.  And so I come back to the financials and that Live Nation call some shots now, if only indirectly. 

I think I would enjoy it better without the artifice- U2 are selling themselves short if they don't think they could still do that- but it would not fill the stadiums.  I suppose once you have the taste for the stadiums, you do what you need to do to keep it. Even if Bono needs to use the teleprompter, he's still got the energy.  The set lists are more adventurous than ever (unrecorded songs etc...)

The danger is that U2, no matter how successful the tour, could be heading down the route of carbaret entertainment.



I totally feel ya, and I just echoed your concerns here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Well... kind of.  I think U2 have always done things their way- if they are not feeling inspired by what they are doing then they are not going to do it, and rightfully so I think.  I mean, if there was an international petition with 2 MM fans requesting a customized tour, I would be OK if they told everyone to F*&% Off.

They may do an occasional 1000 seater in the future, but probably not as a full gig- and them playing songs they dropped from the set during or by the following album tour will probably never be heard again (Indian Summer Sky etc...). 

Though I would gladly hear other songs than Ultraviolet, Hold Me Thrill Me, With or w/out you etc...

But mark my words, one of these days they will dust off Surrender!

Offline xy

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #97 on: December 23, 2010, 12:27:15 AM »
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360 and Vertigo being Greatest hits shows ?

Not really. Having 7 or more new songs in the set, bringing out rarities* and having almost half of the set from the last decade. Not to mention opening with 4 new song in a row, and premiering 5 unreleased songs.

* The Stones are more than 15 years older - of course they have a bigger catalogue to pick from. However, when was the last time they had 7 songs off the last album in the set ? And no one has cared for their recorded output for more than 20 years...the only reason people see them it's because it's the Stones, and they do have a good live show.

1994.  At exactly the same stage in their careers as U2 are at now. ;)

And at the same stage as U2 releasing NLOTH which sold 4 million copies, The Stones released Voodoo Lounge which sold 6 million and won them a Grammy for best Rock Album - so hardly the case that "no one has cared for their recorded output for more than 20 years."

I think the only reason that people go to see a U2 show is because it's U2 and they put on a good live show of mainly hits and warhorses, just like the Stones.




We can equate 4 millions sold in 2009 with 6 millions sold in 1994 because... ?

U2 has won plenty of Grammys with ATYCLB and HTDAAB. Furthermore they had huge hits with BD and Vertigo which eclipse anything off Vodoo Lunge. And yes, no one has cared for Stones' output post 1980. See U2 which did well right up until NLOTH, and even that can be attributed to albums selling less for EVERYONE and having a weak lead single.

Some go to see the hits and because "it's U2", yes. But a lot less so compared to the Stones.

Well, you have absolutely no objective way of proving your last statement. ;)

The fact that U2 have had more hits in recent years proves that U2 are more of a greatest hits preoccupied band than The Rolling Stones.  As Keef Richards says: We stopped making hit records in 1968 and started making albums. ;)

Further evidence that U2 have already become like the modern Rolling Stones is;

They are now using bridges as part of their stage sets, which the Stones first did on the Bridges to babylon tour;

They are beating the Stones at their own game with 360 which by tour end will become the highest grossing corporate rock tour and the most attended in history;

U2 are now being advised in tax avoidance by the same Dutch guy that has advised the Stones in tax avoidance for decades.





The vast majority at the Stones show goes to see the show and because it's the Stones. It's not hard to guess that, on average, a lot more people attending the U2 show are there to see the new songs.

No, it just proves U2 are a band more in tune with the audience, more current.

What does the use of bridges have to do with anything ? You really think no one thought of that before the Stones did it ? U2 were the first to use TV screens and one of the first to have a B-stage, the first to use a LED screen and the first major act to tour "in the round" setup in stadiums worldwide. Comparisons like that feel like kindergarten talk...

Yes, U2 and Stones had the most attended and biggest shows. And ?
 But have no fear, I'm sure the Stones will find a way to earn more money - having more expensive tickets comes to mind...incidentally, what Stones tour had 10 000 tickets at the price of 30 dollars, as 360 currently has ?

U2 probably looked for the best tax advisor. It happens to be the same guy that helped out with the Stones taxes.


Offline aarong

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #98 on: December 23, 2010, 12:55:28 AM »
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U2 are now being advised in tax avoidance by the same Dutch guy that has advised the Stones in tax avoidance for decades.



just point of information - he's an Irish guy called Gabby Smyth, who's an expert in advising Irish srtists in how to minimise tax payments. Incidentially, you remember the story about Adam's housekeeper he had to let go as she was using his plastic for her own purposes? Adam has legal proceedings against him in court for basically not advising him earlier of the withdrawls as he's also Adam's, or was, Adam's financial advisor, causing a bit of anxt amongst the band members at the time
« Last Edit: December 23, 2010, 01:07:27 AM by aarong »

Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #99 on: December 23, 2010, 01:21:23 AM »
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U2 are now being advised in tax avoidance by the same Dutch guy that has advised the Stones in tax avoidance for decades.



just point of information - he's an Irish guy called Gabby Smyth

In point of fact, his name is Jan Favie and he owns a company called Promogroup based in Amsterdam, which also has a branch in the Dutch Antilles, and he now advises U2 Ltd, along with his other longstanding clients, The Rolling Stones.

U2 thank him in the 'Thanks to' section of No Line On The Horizon, as well they might given the $Millions he's going to save them in tax liabilities.





Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #100 on: December 23, 2010, 01:41:31 AM »
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The vast majority at the Stones show goes to see the show and because it's the Stones. It's not hard to guess that, on average, a lot more people attending the U2 show are there to see the new songs.


Where's the objective evidence to support your "guess"?



« Last Edit: December 23, 2010, 03:03:38 AM by Tumbling Dice »

Offline aarong

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #101 on: December 23, 2010, 02:01:28 AM »
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U2 are now being advised in tax avoidance by the same Dutch guy that has advised the Stones in tax avoidance for decades.



just point of information - he's an Irish guy called Gabby Smyth

In point of fact, his name is Jan Favie and he owns a company called Promogroup based in Amsterdam, which also has a branch in the Dutch Antilles, and he now advises U2 Ltd, along with his other longstanding clients, The Rolling Stones.

U2 thank him in the 'Thanks to' section of No Line On The Horizon, as well they might given the $Millions he's going to save them in tax liabilities.



Gabby Smyth would disagree with you - he has been advising Irish "artists" for years.

Offline aarong

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #102 on: December 23, 2010, 02:02:24 AM »
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Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #103 on: December 23, 2010, 02:13:59 AM »
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U2 are now being advised in tax avoidance by the same Dutch guy that has advised the Stones in tax avoidance for decades.



just point of information - he's an Irish guy called Gabby Smyth

In point of fact, his name is Jan Favie and he owns a company called Promogroup based in Amsterdam, which also has a branch in the Dutch Antilles, and he now advises U2 Ltd, along with his other longstanding clients, The Rolling Stones.

U2 thank him in the 'Thanks to' section of No Line On The Horizon, as well they might given the $Millions he's going to save them in tax liabilities.



Gabby Smyth would disagree with you - he has been advising Irish "artists" for years.

This guy probably advises them on their Irish financial affairs, where as Jan Favie advises the band on their Dutch tax arrangements - different advisers for different territories and tax codes.

So I don't think Gabby would disagree with me.


Offline xy

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Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
« Reply #104 on: December 23, 2010, 05:25:10 AM »
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The vast majority at the Stones show goes to see the show and because it's the Stones. It's not hard to guess that, on average, a lot more people attending the U2 show are there to see the new songs.


Where's the objective evidence to support your "guess"?





And where is the objective evidence to support this ? the only reason that people go to see a U2 show is because it's U2 and they put on a good live show of mainly hits and warhorses, just like the Stones.


And why is an issue when U2 gives thanks to their employees ? They do it all the time on the album notes.