Author Topic: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period  (Read 14281 times)

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Offline TheFlyingLemon

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Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
« Reply #60 on: February 07, 2009, 01:23:56 AM »
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Theres a guy who's strange
In your U2 thread
who ya gonna call          trollbusters!

theres a bon jovi picture
and it dont look good
who ya gonna call          trollbusters!

i aint afraid of no troll


 ;D  ;D  ;D

This deserves appreciation.

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Don't we all just LOVE threads like these?  ::)

Definitely, they're the brightest parts of the forum.

In all honesty, no matter how troll-like the poster is, I think we should keep the attacks to a minimum. Keep all the personal things out of this.

Oh crap, i'm sounding like a mod now.  :-[

Offline jick

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Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
« Reply #61 on: February 08, 2009, 08:12:56 AM »
I have just seen a the January 2008 issue of Q magazine.  Here is an excerpt from an interview with Edge.

------

Q: Broadly speaking, the last two albums were the sound of a classic U2.  Did you have some rebuilding or reorienting to do after POP?

Edge: I think after POP we sort of abstracted the sound of the band to such a degree that it felt timely to go back to the fundamentals of what rock'n'roll is all about and what it does.  It's really the chemistry of playing.  You only get that when people are in a room, in real time, performing together.  And that's really what we were experiencing on those two records. And on the new album I think it was time to move on - and, while holding on to that quality, to really take the sound to other areas. And some of the new ideas are slight throwbacks and some of them are really looking to the future.  That's OK: as long as when you use ideas from the past you make them of the moment. That you're not just slavishly doing something that you've done 10 or 20 years ago.

-------

Perhaps this interview can be read together with the other interview to get a fuller picture of POP for the newbies in this forum.

Cheers,

J



Offline jick

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Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
« Reply #62 on: February 11, 2009, 10:02:22 AM »
More education for the new fans, especially the younger ones such as students who cannot shell out for the incredible book U2 by U2.

From U2 by U2, the band on POP in their own words:

BONO

"We just couldn't get the fun onto the album. The songs weren't good enough.  The themes were there.  Some of the melodies were there.  But it couldn't seem to get airborne."

"Pop is the sound of U2 trying to make an ode to club culture without using the tool sof dance music, which were loops and drum machines and pro-tools."

"Pop never had the chance to be properly finished. It is really the most expensive demo session in the history of music."

"This was really the theme of Pop: big subjects for the basement. But it is not enough to have a good lyric or a great idea.  If the tune or the musical location aren't right then you might as well be standing on a soap box at Speakers' Corner."

"So many songs on Pop were almost but not quite there."

"We wanted to make a party record but we came out at the end of the party.  The dancing was over and there were a load of broken bottles and young people sleeping under tables and the odd row in the garden between lovers who've imbibed too much."

"We should give this album to a re-mixer, go back to what was originally intended, so that 'Mofo' is on top of the stickiest groove with a proper plastic attack, 'Do You Feel Love" is done as a liquid bass line hook that carries the intimacies whispered on top of it, 'If God Will Send His Angels' should be diamonds and pearls."

On Last Night On Earth: "We were supposed to be making an uplifting expression of what happens when rock'n'roll meets club culture.  Instead, it felt like a load of men on an oil rig in the middle of the North Sea.  My voice was completely shot, which is why we put so much echo on it and Edge sand along with me to cover it up."

On Playboy Mansion: "It was supposed to be a Pop Art anthem but its contemporary references work against it.  Jokes about Michael Jackson and O.J. Simpson just aren't funny any more. The original lyric was much more emotional. I am not sure the best version ended up on the album."

On If You Wear That Velvet Dress: "It wanted to be a lounge classic.  It ended up in an airport lounge as background noise."

On Please: "The recording is a little unfocused, a little unclear, and didn't resolve.  I'm not sure we've ever really done the song justice."

THE EDGE

"The great synthesis between songwriting and dance didn't happen.  It was like mixing oil and water.  The two approaches were actually pulling us in opposing directions."

"When the songs started to emerge from the mist, we missed the personality of the band.  The songs were resting on drum machine beats and sequenced bass and had a little bit of a sterile quality."

On Do You Feel Loved: "A great thought that never really became a great song."

On If God Will Send His Angels: "It is a nice tune but the chorus doesn't quite connect."

On Staring At The Sun: "Another great tune that never became a great record."

On Last Night On Earth: "It was a good tune but is it up there with 'New Year's Day' or 'Sunday Bloody Sunday'? Obviously not, or we would still be playing it live."

On Gone: "I had high hopes for it but it always sounded better on acoustic guitar."

------------------------

That was still excerpts from Bono and Edge.  I will be adding more from Clayton, Mullen, and McGuiness when I gather everything up.

I will not post any comments or opinions here.  After all, these are the band's words so you readers be the one to decide.

Cheers,

J




Offline JuniorEmblem

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Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
« Reply #63 on: February 11, 2009, 10:06:33 AM »
More education for newer U2 fans who may not know:

U2 fans like yourselves prefer Pop over HTDAAB and ATYCLB.

So, unless you're IN U2, your Peer group (the U2 fan who is interested enough in the band to log onto forums such as this) prefers Pop.




An Cat Dubh

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Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
« Reply #64 on: February 11, 2009, 10:21:47 AM »
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More education for the new fans, especially the younger ones such as students who cannot shell out for the incredible book U2 by U2.

From U2 by U2, the band on POP in their own words:

BONO

"We just couldn't get the fun onto the album. The songs weren't good enough.  The themes were there.  Some of the melodies were there.  But it couldn't seem to get airborne."

"Pop is the sound of U2 trying to make an ode to club culture without using the tool sof dance music, which were loops and drum machines and pro-tools."

"Pop never had the chance to be properly finished. It is really the most expensive demo session in the history of music."

"This was really the theme of Pop: big subjects for the basement. But it is not enough to have a good lyric or a great idea.  If the tune or the musical location aren't right then you might as well be standing on a soap box at Speakers' Corner."

"So many songs on Pop were almost but not quite there."

"We wanted to make a party record but we came out at the end of the party.  The dancing was over and there were a load of broken bottles and young people sleeping under tables and the odd row in the garden between lovers who've imbibed too much."

"We should give this album to a re-mixer, go back to what was originally intended, so that 'Mofo' is on top of the stickiest groove with a proper plastic attack, 'Do You Feel Love" is done as a liquid bass line hook that carries the intimacies whispered on top of it, 'If God Will Send His Angels' should be diamonds and pearls."

On Last Night On Earth: "We were supposed to be making an uplifting expression of what happens when rock'n'roll meets club culture.  Instead, it felt like a load of men on an oil rig in the middle of the North Sea.  My voice was completely shot, which is why we put so much echo on it and Edge sand along with me to cover it up."

On Playboy Mansion: "It was supposed to be a Pop Art anthem but its contemporary references work against it.  Jokes about Michael Jackson and O.J. Simpson just aren't funny any more. The original lyric was much more emotional. I am not sure the best version ended up on the album."

On If You Wear That Velvet Dress: "It wanted to be a lounge classic.  It ended up in an airport lounge as background noise."

On Please: "The recording is a little unfocused, a little unclear, and didn't resolve.  I'm not sure we've ever really done the song justice."

THE EDGE

"The great synthesis between songwriting and dance didn't happen.  It was like mixing oil and water.  The two approaches were actually pulling us in opposing directions."

"When the songs started to emerge from the mist, we missed the personality of the band.  The songs were resting on drum machine beats and sequenced bass and had a little bit of a sterile quality."

On Do You Feel Loved: "A great thought that never really became a great song."

On If God Will Send His Angels: "It is a nice tune but the chorus doesn't quite connect."

On Staring At The Sun: "Another great tune that never became a great record."

On Last Night On Earth: "It was a good tune but is it up there with 'New Year's Day' or 'Sunday Bloody Sunday'? Obviously not, or we would still be playing it live."

On Gone: "I had high hopes for it but it always sounded better on acoustic guitar."

------------------------

That was still excerpts from Bono and Edge.  I will be adding more from Clayton, Mullen, and McGuiness when I gather everything up.

I will not post any comments or opinions here.  After all, these are the band's words so you readers be the one to decide.

Cheers,

J





Jick, Im really begining to dislike you. I have asked you this before to which you did not answer. Why are trying to 'educate' young fans in the first place? Are they not entitled to form their own opinions on U2's music? Lets face it, very new fans to U2 have 11 brilliant albums to chose from as there staring point, whether its, Boy, HTDAAB or anything in between. Let them just listen to the songs, and then they can decide for themselves. Yes, reviews and grammy's and album sales are all important in their own silly little way, but what is most important is personal TASTE!
And Ive said to you before, why the hell does anybody have to take the bands opinion on anyhting. Not everybody likes Bono's campaigning, or 'preaching' whatever you want to call it, but they still love THE MUSIC and THE BAND, and BONO!
This is a forum, for lively discussion and debate between U2 fans from any age group, not a bleedin' classroom for people like you to try and force your opinions (which you are allowed to have) on people, especially new fans.
Your posts are aimed at winding people up (which you have finally done with me now) and causing conflict. Please stop it, can't you just write posts like everyone else, some are heated yes, but when they are they are in good humor. And another thing, do you have a sense of humor, because it hasn't come accross yet in any of your posts. Have FUN man, enjoy.
Phew!!!!!!!!!  8)
Oh, and I still LOVE Pop - whatever you say, or the Band says, in whatever book, or magazine or anything else says.

Offline JuniorEmblem

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Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
« Reply #65 on: February 11, 2009, 10:24:48 AM »
There's a reason he was kicked off of Wire and Interference y'know..........


An Cat Dubh

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Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
« Reply #66 on: February 11, 2009, 10:29:07 AM »
Man I'm losing it.  :-[

Junior, Im off to listen to WAR, LOUD

Boom Cha!

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Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
« Reply #67 on: February 11, 2009, 10:30:44 AM »
Jick, I'm so glad you're able to educate us "new" fans. I've been a fan since 2005. It's so great to know all this information about Pop.

I mean, the first time I listenend to Pop I immediately fell in love with it. It was the reason I became such a huge U2 fan.

But, wait! The band doesn't like the album?! Oh no! I need to go back and rethink my opinion of this album.

Thank you so much, Jick! You are so insightful!

How dare I think for myself!

*sarcasm overload*  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Offline jick

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Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
« Reply #68 on: February 11, 2009, 10:32:29 AM »
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Jick, Im really begining to dislike you. I have asked you this before to which you did not answer. Why are trying to 'educate' young fans in the first place? Are they not entitled to form their own opinions on U2's music? Lets face it, very new fans to U2 have 11 brilliant albums to chose from as there staring point, whether its, Boy, HTDAAB or anything in between. Let them just listen to the songs, and then they can decide for themselves. Yes, reviews and grammy's and album sales are all important in their own silly little way, but what is most important is personal TASTE!
And Ive said to you before, why the hell does anybody have to take the bands opinion on anyhting. Not everybody likes Bono's campaigning, or 'preaching' whatever you want to call it, but they still love THE MUSIC and THE BAND, and BONO!
This is a forum, for lively discussion and debate between U2 fans from any age group, not a bleedin' classroom for people like you to try and force your opinions (which you are allowed to have) on people, especially new fans.
Your posts are aimed at winding people up (which you have finally done with me now) and causing conflict. Please stop it, can't you just write posts like everyone else, some are heated yes, but when they are they are in good humor. And another thing, do you have a sense of humor, because it hasn't come accross yet in any of your posts. Have FUN man, enjoy.
Phew!!!!!!!!!  8)
Oh, and I still LOVE Pop - whatever you say, or the Band says, in whatever book, or magazine or anything else says.

Please do not condemn me, those are not my words by the bands own words.

I am trying to "educate" the young U2 fans because there are a lot of teenagers and those in their early 20's, who were still maybe 10 years old when POP came out, so they were too young to even know what happened.

These young fans today love U2 but not all can afford the U2 by U2 book.  So I just thought of posting excerpts of the book.

Again, I have stated my opinions on POP in other threads.  This one is purely educational where I post what the band says.  In the end, its up to the younger fans to read what the band says, listen to the album, and decide for themselves.

Listening to the album won't be a problem in this world of free downloads, they can be resourceful enough.  Deciding for themselves is also easy since the youth of today are very opinionated.  But do they all have access to the band's words?  This is where I am trying to help.  In the end, they will still decide.

Cheers,

J

An Cat Dubh

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Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
« Reply #69 on: February 11, 2009, 10:39:30 AM »
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Jick, I'm so glad you're able to educate us "new" fans. I've been a fan since 2005. It's so great to know all this information about Pop.

I mean, the first time I listenend to Pop I immediately fell in love with it. It was the reason I became such a huge U2 fan.

But, wait! The band doesn't like the album?! Oh no! I need to go back and rethink my opinion of this album.

Thank you so much, Jick! You are so insightful!

How dare I think for myself!

*sarcasm overload*  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Thanks Boom Cha!

You see, people do not need to be influenced, they can make up there own mind. All I am asking is please get out of this 'educating' mode you seem to be in. Even the toughest reviewers of music do not go this route.

Offline JuniorEmblem

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Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
« Reply #70 on: February 11, 2009, 10:42:08 AM »
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Jick, I'm so glad you're able to educate us "new" fans. I've been a fan since 2005. It's so great to know all this information about Pop.

I mean, the first time I listenend to Pop I immediately fell in love with it. It was the reason I became such a huge U2 fan.

But, wait! The band doesn't like the album?! Oh no! I need to go back and rethink my opinion of this album.

Thank you so much, Jick! You are so insightful!

How dare I think for myself!

*sarcasm overload*  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Thanks Boom Cha!

You see, people do not need to be influenced, they can make up there own mind. All I am asking is please get out of this 'educating' mode you seem to be in. Even the toughest reviewers of music do not go this route.

It'snot like the book is that expensive either, it's about the price of a CD.

Pretty pictures and some nice insight occasionally from Willie, but the rest is pretty much bland and/or revisionist.


Offline CiscoJP

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Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
« Reply #71 on: February 11, 2009, 10:43:58 AM »
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Jick, Im really begining to dislike you. I have asked you this before to which you did not answer. Why are trying to 'educate' young fans in the first place? Are they not entitled to form their own opinions on U2's music? Lets face it, very new fans to U2 have 11 brilliant albums to chose from as there staring point, whether its, Boy, HTDAAB or anything in between. Let them just listen to the songs, and then they can decide for themselves. Yes, reviews and grammy's and album sales are all important in their own silly little way, but what is most important is personal TASTE!
And Ive said to you before, why the hell does anybody have to take the bands opinion on anyhting. Not everybody likes Bono's campaigning, or 'preaching' whatever you want to call it, but they still love THE MUSIC and THE BAND, and BONO!
This is a forum, for lively discussion and debate between U2 fans from any age group, not a bleedin' classroom for people like you to try and force your opinions (which you are allowed to have) on people, especially new fans.
Your posts are aimed at winding people up (which you have finally done with me now) and causing conflict. Please stop it, can't you just write posts like everyone else, some are heated yes, but when they are they are in good humor. And another thing, do you have a sense of humor, because it hasn't come accross yet in any of your posts. Have FUN man, enjoy.
Phew!!!!!!!!!  8)
Oh, and I still LOVE Pop - whatever you say, or the Band says, in whatever book, or magazine or anything else says.

Please do not condemn me, those are not my words by the bands own words.

I am trying to "educate" the young U2 fans because there are a lot of teenagers and those in their early 20's, who were still maybe 10 years old when POP came out, so they were too young to even know what happened.

These young fans today love U2 but not all can afford the U2 by U2 book.  So I just thought of posting excerpts of the book.

Again, I have stated my opinions on POP in other threads.  This one is purely educational where I post what the band says.  In the end, its up to the younger fans to read what the band says, listen to the album, and decide for themselves.

Listening to the album won't be a problem in this world of free downloads, they can be resourceful enough.  Deciding for themselves is also easy since the youth of today are very opinionated.  But do they all have access to the band's words?  This is where I am trying to help.  In the end, they will still decide.

Cheers,

J


Who cares what the band says? They will usually be their own harshest critics. The point is, most true fans love Pop. Just accept it. ATYCLB and HTDAAB were decent albums, but not as deep, dark, or as innovative as Pop. It seems like it was just a bad experience for the band, rushed schedules, things they didn't get to do that they wanted to. I'm a musician myself, and I've found that sometimes songs that I've done that I hate are sometimes the ones everyone else loves, sometimes better than the ones I think are awesome. So you don't need to "educate" the new fans, and that's not what you're doing. If a fan listens to Pop and says "wow, this is good!" then so be it. Knowing that the band wasn't 100% happy with it won't change their opinion. And if they wanted to research it, I hear that teens and people in their early 20's are pretty good with the internet and looking things up. Like, if they wanted to know what Fez was...

You don't like Pop. We get it. Do we need tons and tons of threads and posts by you continually beating the dead horse?

An Cat Dubh

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Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
« Reply #72 on: February 11, 2009, 10:47:52 AM »
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Jick, Im really begining to dislike you. I have asked you this before to which you did not answer. Why are trying to 'educate' young fans in the first place? Are they not entitled to form their own opinions on U2's music? Lets face it, very new fans to U2 have 11 brilliant albums to chose from as there staring point, whether its, Boy, HTDAAB or anything in between. Let them just listen to the songs, and then they can decide for themselves. Yes, reviews and grammy's and album sales are all important in their own silly little way, but what is most important is personal TASTE!
And Ive said to you before, why the hell does anybody have to take the bands opinion on anyhting. Not everybody likes Bono's campaigning, or 'preaching' whatever you want to call it, but they still love THE MUSIC and THE BAND, and BONO!
This is a forum, for lively discussion and debate between U2 fans from any age group, not a bleedin' classroom for people like you to try and force your opinions (which you are allowed to have) on people, especially new fans.
Your posts are aimed at winding people up (which you have finally done with me now) and causing conflict. Please stop it, can't you just write posts like everyone else, some are heated yes, but when they are they are in good humor. And another thing, do you have a sense of humor, because it hasn't come accross yet in any of your posts. Have FUN man, enjoy.
Phew!!!!!!!!!  8)
Oh, and I still LOVE Pop - whatever you say, or the Band says, in whatever book, or magazine or anything else says.

Please do not condemn me, those are not my words by the bands own words.

I am trying to "educate" the young U2 fans because there are a lot of teenagers and those in their early 20's, who were still maybe 10 years old when POP came out, so they were too young to even know what happened.

These young fans today love U2 but not all can afford the U2 by U2 book.  So I just thought of posting excerpts of the book.

Again, I have stated my opinions on POP in other threads.  This one is purely educational where I post what the band says.  In the end, its up to the younger fans to read what the band says, listen to the album, and decide for themselves.

Listening to the album won't be a problem in this world of free downloads, they can be resourceful enough.  Deciding for themselves is also easy since the youth of today are very opinionated.  But do they all have access to the band's words?  This is where I am trying to help.  In the end, they will still decide.

Cheers,

J


Who cares what the band says? They will usually be their own harshest critics. The point is, most true fans love Pop. Just accept it. ATYCLB and HTDAAB were decent albums, but not as deep, dark, or as innovative as Pop. It seems like it was just a bad experience for the band, rushed schedules, things they didn't get to do that they wanted to. I'm a musician myself, and I've found that sometimes songs that I've done that I hate are sometimes the ones everyone else loves, sometimes better than the ones I think are awesome. So you don't need to "educate" the new fans, and that's not what you're doing. If a fan listens to Pop and says "wow, this is good!" then so be it. Knowing that the band wasn't 100% happy with it won't change their opinion. And if they wanted to research it, I hear that teens and people in their early 20's are pretty good with the internet and looking things up. Like, if they wanted to know what Fez was...

You don't like Pop. We get it. Do we need tons and tons of threads and posts by you continually beating the dead horse?

Cisco thanks, I also wanted to try and say this, but went off on one. Thank you for being more constructive.

Offline dislexoteche

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Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
« Reply #73 on: February 11, 2009, 10:54:49 AM »
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I am trying to "educate" the young U2 fans because there are a lot of teenagers and those in their early 20's, who were still maybe 10 years old when POP came out, so they were too young to even know what happened.


When did these "young U2 fans" enrol onto your class Jick?

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Deciding for themselves is also easy since the youth of today are very opinionated.  But do they all have access to the band's words?  This is where I am trying to help.  In the end, they will still decide.


You keep telling us you're the messager Jick. Fair enough. But what purpose does your message serve? Please tell me what the point of your message is? ANYONE (whether they're an aspiring young U2 fan or otherwise) will form an opinion of an album by simply listening to it. Any other factors are surely irrelevant to anyone that cares about music! Why should the opinions of U2 band members bear any relevance to the enjoyment of their music?

P.S. Please tell us a joke Jick...I know that you have it in you.

joegtheog

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Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
« Reply #74 on: February 11, 2009, 10:56:21 AM »
POP rocks!!! (slight pun)