Author Topic: Is Clayton The Real Culprit For 360 Tour's Stale Performances?  (Read 9811 times)

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Offline Achtung_Habs

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Re: Is Clayton The Real Culprit For 360 Tour's Stale Performances?
« Reply #30 on: April 28, 2011, 06:18:47 PM »
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For me I actually think Adams bass has played a greater role in the U2 sound recently - the fact theres no bass slaps etc is more probably related to the refined U2 sound as opposed to a desire to stand out. I do get the Larry piece - I think he has toned down his playing -not sure if thats a pyysical thing but he's less 'energetic' than earlier days.

Well, Larry has Tendinitis problems, those usually don't get better with age !

Yes I know he does but he does seem less adventurous on drum sound?

Well a pretty hard and fast song to play is Out Of Control, and he played it real good in Brazil.  But it's true, he toned down the playing a bit, still plays the same base parts, but less filling IMO.

Offline jick

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Re: Is Clayton The Real Culprit For 360 Tour's Stale Performances?
« Reply #31 on: April 28, 2011, 09:49:52 PM »
Mullen is the glue that holds U2 together. He is playing wonderfully this tour.

Clayton used to be known for his "tasteful" bass notes.  Now, he has gone from tasteful to playful, from disciplined to dancey.  The sound has lost its edge and density, and has become too thin, too soft, and too rounded.

Rather than murder songs like With Or Without You, Streets, or Elevation - if Clayton really wants to exercise his fingers, maybe he should just play Please.  But then again, given the way he has been playing bass and the way his tech has been mixing it as of late, it wouldn't do Please justice and it is better off shelved.

Cheers,

J

Offline A_Fly_On_The_Wall

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Re: Is Clayton The Real Culprit For 360 Tour's Stale Performances?
« Reply #32 on: April 29, 2011, 02:21:11 PM »
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Anyway, I don't know why anyone on these forums takes the time to take a swipe at Jick's ideas.  They're IDEAS, meant to be discussed and, in this case, it would help if we were able to listen and compare bass lines to know what he's talking about.

At least he takes the time to write in-depth forum posts...much better than all these one liners from many of you whiners.

First of all, what Jick posts on this forum aren't always IDEAS. They are mostly opinions, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But when his opinion is clearly a drastic one (saying that Clayton can be replaced) then that view on things gets a bad reputation.

Secondly, you have only posted once on this forum, so how would you know what everyone on here is like? You should really get to know the people on this forum before you bad-mouth them (whiners).

I would continue on this post, but I wouldn't want to be branded a "whiner" by someone  ;)

Offline aarong

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Re: Is Clayton The Real Culprit For 360 Tour's Stale Performances?
« Reply #33 on: April 29, 2011, 02:24:11 PM »
Well, as a bass player, Ive noticed Adam's basslines have definitely got less aggressive and more harmonic over the years, not just on this tour. I always hope he'd get back to the kinda bass playing you'd hear in Redrocks, but it just ain't gonna happen.

The transitional bass notes - from one chord to another - they're chromatic runs found heavily in jazz - stand out in songs like Magnificent, and suit the likes of Magnificent, but sometimes just don't slot in to other U2 songs. I get a feeling Adam's trying out variations on different older songs - some work, some don't - but I kinda wonder shouldn't he have done all this exploratory work in rehearsals, as surely rehearsals aren't just for writing a rehearsing new songs. I kinda get the impression that he has like 100 gigs, so, let’s mess about with this new line tonight, and if it doesn’t work, Ill revert back to the original. And Ill try a new line on another song tomorrow. Fine for him when you’ve loads of gigs to go play at but if youve saved up your hard earned cash, you expect to hear what you expect to hear. And to eb honest, most “fans” cannot afford to be going to more tan one or two gigs

I like the old slap bass of his youth, I like the root-octave work he used in teh live version of Discoteque - and teh simplicity of the likes of the bassline of WOWY was perfect and shouldn't be tampered with.

Incidentially, on a wider level of criticism, Larry's drumming on Streets sounds apauling if you compare it with the Streets of, say, the Lovetown tour if you check the new years eve gig version of '89 on Youtube. The whole band should be slapped and kicked into shape for writing a fantastic live into to Mysterious Ways,for Zoo TV, then scrapping the whole thing and either having no intro whatsoever or some half hearted intro. Adam alone can’t be solely left to blamed on the soundings of the band.

Offline The Exile

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Re: Is Clayton The Real Culprit For 360 Tour's Stale Performances?
« Reply #34 on: April 29, 2011, 03:00:47 PM »
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... you have only posted once on this forum, so how would you know what everyone on here is like? You should really get to know the people on this forum before you bad-mouth them (whiners).

I would continue on this post, but I wouldn't want to be branded a "whiner" by someone  ;)

The Professor has posted dozens of times on this forum. If YOU paid more attention, you would know that he/she often goes through their older posts and deletes them.

Offline A_Fly_On_The_Wall

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Re: Is Clayton The Real Culprit For 360 Tour's Stale Performances?
« Reply #35 on: April 29, 2011, 03:10:32 PM »
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... you have only posted once on this forum, so how would you know what everyone on here is like? You should really get to know the people on this forum before you bad-mouth them (whiners).

I would continue on this post, but I wouldn't want to be branded a "whiner" by someone  ;)

The Professor has posted dozens of times on this forum. If YOU paid more attention, you would know that he/she often goes through their older posts and deletes them.

Okay point taken, but there is still no need to brand people "whiners" when he/she might not actually know who they really are. And perhaps I don't really pay much attnetion to people who are degrading of others, especially when they don't know who they're talking to.

Offline dangerous and honest

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Re: Is Clayton The Real Culprit For 360 Tour's Stale Performances?
« Reply #36 on: April 29, 2011, 03:35:29 PM »
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Adam alone can’t be solely left to blamed on the soundings of the band.


This^

Although I don't know for sure, I doubt that Adam decides on the song structure. U2 is a collective right? He can't just do his own thing and get 'funky'. There needs to be some collaboration and agreement between people on the way a song is performed each night. Is he to blame?

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I do wish bands, especially U2, would play their old hit songs the way they were first recorded...



But if this were the case we would have no Running To Stand Still from Zoo TV. No Streets live! No Bad from... (take your choice here). No Sunday Bloody Sunday from Rattle & Hum etc etc

Our loss, IMO.



Offline StrongGirl

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Re: Is Clayton The Real Culprit For 360 Tour's Stale Performances?
« Reply #37 on: April 29, 2011, 06:42:18 PM »
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For me I actually think Adams bass has played a greater role in the U2 sound recently - the fact theres no bass slaps etc is more probably related to the refined U2 sound as opposed to a desire to stand out. I do get the Larry piece - I think he has toned down his playing -not sure if thats a pyysical thing but he's less 'energetic' than earlier days.

I must agree with you here, sing!

Offline jick

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Re: Is Clayton The Real Culprit For 360 Tour's Stale Performances?
« Reply #38 on: April 29, 2011, 07:30:16 PM »
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First of all, what Jick posts on this forum aren't always IDEAS. They are mostly opinions, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But when his opinion is clearly a drastic one (saying that Clayton can be replaced) then that view on things gets a bad reputation.

Secondly, you have only posted once on this forum, so how would you know what everyone on here is like? You should really get to know the people on this forum before you bad-mouth them (whiners).

I would continue on this post, but I wouldn't want to be branded a "whiner" by someone  ;)

I never said Clayton can be replaced.  U2 are greater than the sum of their parts.  I did say in previous posts in the past that if I were left with no choice and one member had to take the boot, that would be Clayton.  In other words, if Clayton leaves I would still want U2 to continue even with an interim bassist.  But if Edge or Bono leave, U2 might as well just call it quits.

In response to another post, I feel there is not that much democracy in the band on how to play their parts in old songs.  The band members may give input but at the end of the day, it is Clayton who decides on his own bass licks because that is his territory and not that of other band members.

If Clayton and Mullen are not heard well enough, then that is the fault of the sound engineers.  Last I checked, Mullen was still playing quite well with the correct beats.  With Clayton, even if the bass is louder in the mix (which you can hear clearly in the IEM recording) his actual basslines are still not what they used to be because he is playing new notes and changed his style.  Tone-wise, the bass has also lost its texture and richness which is not anymore the sound engineers' fault but more of Clayton because he decided on that.  Maybe the lighter tone goes better with Clayton's new playful style because otherwise it would overpower the rest of the instruments.  But it has surely made U2's sound lose its soul.

My message to Clayton, off with "playful" and please make a return to "tasteful."

Cheers,

J

Offline ciaz

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Re: Is Clayton The Real Culprit For 360 Tour's Stale Performances?
« Reply #39 on: April 29, 2011, 08:10:11 PM »
Is it bad that I actually agree with Jick here?

While I appreciate the fact that Clayton has been playing these songs for decades and wants to mix it up, some of his playful changes make the songs worse, in my humble opinion.

Offline Bads316

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Re: Is Clayton The Real Culprit For 360 Tour's Stale Performances?
« Reply #40 on: April 30, 2011, 06:05:10 AM »
Whether you like what Claytons been doing or not, the fact that he has even attempted to mix it up and evolve his own playing while the other three run the the motions, by default, puts the blame for any perceived staleness on someone else. You want them to sound less 'stale' by playing them even more traditionally than they have been?

If you don't like it then fine, but blaming 'staleness' on experimentation and and evolution seems a slight contadiction to me.

Offline Miami66

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Re: Is Clayton The Real Culprit For 360 Tour's Stale Performances?
« Reply #41 on: April 30, 2011, 01:13:10 PM »
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If you don't like it then fine, but blaming 'staleness' on experimentation and and evolution seems a slight contadiction to me.

which is why this thread should be locked

Offline jick

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Re: Is Clayton The Real Culprit For 360 Tour's Stale Performances?
« Reply #42 on: May 01, 2011, 07:22:07 AM »
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I kinda get the impression that he has like 100 gigs, so, let’s mess about with this new line tonight, and if it doesn’t work, Ill revert back to the original. And Ill try a new line on another song tomorrow. Fine for him when you’ve loads of gigs to go play at but if youve saved up your hard earned cash, you expect to hear what you expect to hear. And to eb honest, most “fans” cannot afford to be going to more tan one or two gigs

He does not simply try a "new line tonight".  He has been playing the same new licks for Streets, Elevation, and WOWY for the whole tour with consistency.  They are the same notes and arrangement.  He also lacks variety, all his changes are for the same direction.  Everything is the same - soft, bland, playful, "transitional notes", uninspired.  It's like he seems to have a new playing style to catch his fancy and is sticking to the same style for every song and virtually rearranging their bass lines for the worse and using the same template.  Where is the variety and mixing things up?  If he changes songs to softer sounds, maybe he should also offset it by making other songs louder, less playing, and oversimplifying?  But that is not the case.

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I like the old slap bass of his youth, I like the root-octave work he used in teh live version of Discoteque - and teh simplicity of the likes of the bassline of WOWY was perfect and shouldn't be tampered with.

If he played WOWY on the Joshua Tree record the same way he does on this tour, it would never have been a top hit and the Joshua Tree would never be the iconic album it has turned into.  He has totally destroyed everything the song achieved with the way he is playing it now.

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Incidentially, on a wider level of criticism, Larry's drumming on Streets sounds apauling if you compare it with the Streets of, say, the Lovetown tour if you check the new years eve gig version of '89 on Youtube. The whole band should be slapped and kicked into shape for writing a fantastic live into to Mysterious Ways,for Zoo TV, then scrapping the whole thing and either having no intro whatsoever or some half hearted intro. Adam alone can’t be solely left to blamed on the soundings of the band.

Mullen has had so many back injuries and is no longer the drummer he used to be.  His techs should have been able to do something about the mixing of the sound.  But they don't.  The rhythm section of U2 is now so low in the mix.  Again, back to WOWY, check out the Rattle and Hum video and how Mullen drums it with authority.  Now, he is losing his punch but at least the arrangement is still much better than the pitiful Popmart version.

If you want the rhythm section with Clayton and Mullen prominent in the mix with the bass kick drum and low registers of the bass guitar sounding well, check out your Rattle and Hum DVD's - set it to Bad when the rest of the band come in.

Now, the U2 rhythm section have been losing it more than ever.

Cheers,

J





Offline JTBaby

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Re: Is Clayton The Real Culprit For 360 Tour's Stale Performances?
« Reply #43 on: May 01, 2011, 08:13:38 AM »
There's been a lot wrong with U2s live performances on this tour, but Adam's bass playing is way down on the "at fault" list. Hell, his clothes are much higher up on the list !

Larry hasn't brought it live for many tours now.

The rhythm section is replaceable, pretty much any of a hundred decent cover bands in LA or Manila could do that job in their sleep.

Offline The Exile

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Re: Is Clayton The Real Culprit For 360 Tour's Stale Performances?
« Reply #44 on: May 01, 2011, 09:18:41 AM »
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There's been a lot wrong with U2s live performances on this tour, but Adam's bass playing is way down on the "at fault" list. Hell, his clothes are much higher up on the list !

Larry hasn't brought it live for many tours now.

The rhythm section is replaceable, pretty much any of a hundred decent cover bands in LA or Manila could do that job in their sleep.

I don't know enough about music to comment on his bass-playing, but Adam has always been a horrible dresser. Setting Popmart aside since they were all wearing costumes, look at him on the Joshua Tree Tour, ZooTV, and all three post-Popmart tours. Yikes!