Author Topic: To all those who think Zoo TV is U2's best era/tour  (Read 30148 times)

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Offline bangandclatter

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Re: To all those who think Zoo TV is U2's best era/tour
« Reply #120 on: July 31, 2011, 12:19:27 PM »
A spirited debate indeed. I've poured gasoline on a fire here...the reason I felt the need to say this is because even amongst U2 fans, there's too much "yea but they were better back during so n so time" kind of attitudes. The band is firing away on all cylinders-this tour was absolutely incredible and I think it's not being appreciated at the present time as it will once U2 is no more. This is a tour (like zoo, popmart) that will transcend U2 history, and be a pertinent part of all of rock/popular music history (ie I anticipate there will be an addition to the rock n roll hall of fame related to 360).

So-these tours cannot be compared apples to apples. I'm just sick of hearing about Irish Americans who haven't been back to their country in 20 or 30 years....oops, wrong frustration.

This was an exciting tour to be a U2 fan. This was a spectacle. And I'm gonna miss it.

Offline JTBaby

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Re: To all those who think Zoo TV is U2's best era/tour
« Reply #121 on: July 31, 2011, 12:29:16 PM »
"The band is firing away on all cylinders"

I'd say closer to running on empty

But hey, the Claw is big bright and shiny !!!!

The Professor

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Re: To all those who think Zoo TV is U2's best era/tour
« Reply #122 on: July 31, 2011, 12:34:09 PM »
But, bangandclatter, if you had two doors to choose from and behind one door was a time machine to a ZOO TV show and behind the other door was a time machine to a 360 Tour show, which one would you choose, and why (other than simply saying you liked it)?  That's basically what the essence of this thread is about, I think.  I agree it was a cool tour and the show I saw blew my mind, but in the end I felt like I had been more to a purely entertainment spectacle and not the assault on the senses and sensibilities that was ZOO TV.  That being said, there hasn't been one U2 show I didn't enjoy and think was great and that didn't leave me feeling pumped up for days afterwards.  They really bring it.  I really wish they'd let certain songs go, though, and I hope they never tour again with such a decadent stage, excuse me, THREE stages that cost $750,000 A DAY to maintain.  Every time I heard that or thought about it I felt a little sick.  

An Cat Dubh

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Re: To all those who think Zoo TV is U2's best era/tour
« Reply #123 on: July 31, 2011, 12:39:48 PM »
I originally posted this in the "360 tour love-fest" thread.........and of course got lambasted for it!!

I could not be bothered creating a thread for it, but this is what I wrote:

I have to say that I am disappointed. Disappointed because that 360 gets so much love. U2 Have done SO much better than this in the past, and as this new, younger generation of fans 'spread the word' I fear that the U2 of epic greatness will be forgotten forever.

The raw energy of the first few tours - a REAL band making REAL music, performing out of their skins every night to gain notoriety.

War Tour - watch the Red Rocks concert.

The Unforgettable Fire Tour - taking experimental music on the road, making the jump from theaters to arenas - oh my, the passion in those shows (see the Dortmund boot)

The Joshua Tree Tour - the Paris show springs to mind - anyone who says that With Or Without You is sung better or with more passion by Bono on the 360 tour than it was on its original tour is in my mind completely insane!

LoveTown - about 7 different setlists, completely different, rotated night after night.

Zoo Tv - the BEST concert tour in in history (imho), the MOTHER of all re-inventions, and the MOST exciting time to be a U2 fan. Period. And, anyone who says that Ultravolet is sung better or with more passion by Bono on the 360 tour than it was on its original tour is in my mind completely insane!

PopMart - the USA just didn't get it, but the rest of the world most certainly did. Most definitely NOT the disaster Pop haters, and U2 themselves, make it out to be. Epic.

Elevation - an arena tour done perfectly - ok the material form the most recent album was not the best (imho) - but the intimacy and energy at the shows was amazing, and after 9/11, spiritually uplifting.

Vertigo - not quite as good as Elevation, but ok.

So, I would rank EVERY tour, except Vertigo, above 360. Zoo TV, being the absolute best!

Im sorry, I probably should not have posted this in this thread, but I just had to. 360 is not, and should not be remembered as U2 at their best live.

Offline ryanm

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Re: To all those who think Zoo TV is U2's best era/tour
« Reply #124 on: July 31, 2011, 12:47:37 PM »
ZOO TV was unlike (and still is) any other tour they've ever done.  It wasn't just a concert; it was a narrative experience.  The visuals, Bono's personas, and the order in the set list all contributed to make ZOO TV a hybrid project unlike anything else in the history of Rock 'n Roll.

Sure, 360's technology is better, but this tour did not have the same elements as the ZOO TV tour.

ZOO TV still reigns (and forever will) as U2's greatest tour.

That being said, I loved the show I saw earlier this year and the tour has been phenomenal.  I only wish I would have been old enough to see ZOO TV live and really appreciate it.

Offline Gavin Tuesday

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Re: To all those who think Zoo TV is U2's best era/tour
« Reply #125 on: July 31, 2011, 12:59:04 PM »
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Hi Gavin,

Oh, I didn't think you'd read that as you usually respond post haste.  I only deleted it after noticing that I'd missed your earlier post in which you began to assess the War Tour but then quickly threw up the white flag of surrender (appropriate) and conceded the debate.  

But since you actually read it (and reposted what I'd deleted somehow...not cool, man, not cool at all) and were off to a good start with your analysis of the War Tour, it would be great if you went on and wrote a few further paragraphs.  C'mon, indulge us.  This was a great beginning and an accurate assessment so far.  I was looking forward to reading more because you were on the right track.

"In any event, I haven't seen any of the War tour shows in person, just the Under a Blood Red Sky DVD and that concert from Germany (Rockplast?). I enjoyed everything I've seen in those videos.  A young, idealistic band with lots of energy and something to prove..."

I'm pretty sure you already sensed, though, based on what you began to write, the obvious conclusion that one CAN create and educated and informed analysis/opinion about a tour without having attended its shows, especially when one has visual/video evidence to work with and years and years of analysis about the band and its history...and tours.

Anyway, it'll be a bore for the rest of those on the thread to read much more of this debate, though I AM arguing for the validity of the ideas of many individuals on @U2 and fighting for my fellow U2 fans, but after you turn in your essay, we can quickly all grade it and move on to debating how it's possible for you to not like 29% of U2's album songs...and I'll return the favor in trade & tell you my own U2 stories in response to your entertaining list some pages back.  

Cabiche?  Cabiche.

  

What, more?  The 360 tour just ended man, it's an emotional moment for all U2 fans...can't you just let this one go?

"Fighting for my fellow U2 fans."  "How is it possible you don't like 20% of U2's songs". Did you write that stuff with a straight face?  What is this, if I don't like X % of U2 songs I'm out of the club?  Do I get to keep my card?

White flag of surrender?  Huh? Is that how you think you win debates?  By conceding for the other person?

I haven't conceded anything....except this.  I'll concede that you either don't understand what I'm saying (despite my patience and numerous examples), or you do understand it, but are being intentionally obtuse, I'm which case I can only conclude that you're simply here to argue.  

If you do understand, I'm really not interesting in arguing this point anymore....the truth is I got bored w/it a while ago.  If you don't understand, I really have no desire to continue to try to explain it to you.

This started because...why? I made a throwaway comment that someone who says 360 is better than ZOOTV should probably have seen the ZOOTV tour to say that (I also said he should have grounds more relative than better tech & ticket sales for thinking so).  So we disagree.  I'm not sure what your point is here, really.  Why can't you let this go? I'm fairly certain OAP and bangandclatter and take care of themselves, Prof.  After all, my comments were directed at them, not you.  They aren't throwing a fit about it, and I'm sure I'll see them in other threads and we'll all have a beer.

As far as your passing out U2 essay assignments, I originally gave you the benefit of the doubt on that one because I thought you must be kidding...no one could be that pompous.  But, sadly, apparently you weren't kidding, in which case I'll have to politely decline your offer to have me write an essay on the War tour for you.  Music for me is not an academic exercise, and even if it was, I gave up writing essays after my second second graduate degree (one being a Phd, and since I've taught at the Uni level, I guess that makes me a Prof as well, Prof). :)

Or, if you really want that essay, tell you what.  You respond to every example I gave, every question I asked (you'll find them b/c they ended with a "?") in this thread and then I'll think about that essay.  Fair?

Dude, seriously...what is it with you?  We're not going to agree on this one, so let it go.   It's OK if we don't agree.  Compromise is not a dirty word. I'm sure someone said that once.  I really don't think our fellow U2 fans want to hear us hashing this out anymore.  I think I've tried to end this three times now.  I complimented your U2 knowledge in several posts in this thread, and tried to extend the olive branch more than once...you just won't take it.  So be it man. You know, I've been stuck home the past ten days recovering from knee surgery, and endlessly trying to explain all this to you, and all this bickering is NOT helping my healing process, bro.  And then you had to go make it personal. It's not. If making my points forcefully and with logic and examples means I'm "coming on strong" (as you've repeated, repeatedly), so be it.  But let's not make it personal. I'm a nice guy, but you're starting to make me grumpy.

Seriously, there's no need to respond....though something tells me you will anyway, let's see if you can help yourself.  If not, please, feel free to have the last word.

Love & Peace...or else.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2011, 02:38:04 PM by Gavin Tuesday »

Offline honey_child

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Re: To all those who think Zoo TV is U2's best era/tour
« Reply #126 on: July 31, 2011, 01:34:54 PM »
I swear, our fandom's motto should be "stop having fun, guys".  ::)

Offline bangandclatter

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Re: To all those who think Zoo TV is U2's best era/tour
« Reply #127 on: July 31, 2011, 01:40:28 PM »
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But, bangandclatter, if you had two doors to choose from and behind one door was a time machine to a ZOO TV show and behind the other door was a time machine to a 360 Tour show, which one would you choose, and why (other than simply saying you liked it)?  That's basically what the essence of this thread is about, I think.  I agree it was a cool tour and the show I saw blew my mind, but in the end I felt like I had been more to a purely entertainment spectacle and not the assault on the senses and sensibilities that was ZOO TV.  That being said, there hasn't been one U2 show I didn't enjoy and think was great and that didn't leave me feeling pumped up for days afterwards.  They really bring it.  I really wish they'd let certain songs go, though, and I hope they never tour again with such a decadent stage, excuse me, THREE stages that cost $750,000 A DAY to maintain.  Every time I heard that or thought about it I felt a little sick.  

I'd take the time machine to one of the zoomerang shows, no doubt. A younger band completely changing its image in brilliant context is much more appealing than this last tour (which by the way, i could easily be convinced the 360 stage is a prototype for a time travel machine)

What was the inflation adjusted cost to put zooTV together? the cost shouldn't bother fans of this band. Everything has and always will be big and over the top.  Innovation costs $$$$.  U2 is the only band that can get away with BS like zoo, popmart, 360, so why not? Sure the stones can and will most likely put on a production similar in size, but no way could they do it under a space ship.  Muse could-but could not generate mass appeal like we saw with 360.  

And as far as decadence goes-using cars to light the stage is fairly decadent, among other things...

satellitedog01

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Re: To all those who think Zoo TV is U2's best era/tour
« Reply #128 on: July 31, 2011, 01:55:54 PM »
Well those cars cost around $150-250 depending on the state they were in... (I doubt they were working cars to begin with) having them turned into pieces of art must have been more expensive. IIRC the reported daily cost of ZooTV was around $200-250k for the stadium setup.

Offline Gavin Tuesday

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Re: To all those who think Zoo TV is U2's best era/tour
« Reply #129 on: July 31, 2011, 02:13:49 PM »
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Well those cars cost around $150-250 depending on the state they were in... (I doubt they were working cars to begin with)

Of course none of the cars worked, they were all lemons.   :P

(sorry)

(ducks)


satellitedog01

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Re: To all those who think Zoo TV is U2's best era/tour
« Reply #130 on: July 31, 2011, 02:27:53 PM »
The cars were definitely not ducks, or newts at that, or if they were, they got better by the start of tour.

Offline Gavin Tuesday

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Re: To all those who think Zoo TV is U2's best era/tour
« Reply #131 on: July 31, 2011, 02:31:39 PM »
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The cars were definitely not ducks, or newts at that, or if they were, they got better by the start of tour.

What about very small rocks?

Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: To all those who think Zoo TV is U2's best era/tour
« Reply #132 on: July 31, 2011, 02:55:32 PM »
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Zoo Tv - the BEST concert tour in in history (imho), the MOTHER of all re-inventions, and the MOST exciting time to be a U2 fan. Period.

Elevation - an arena tour done perfectly - ok the material form the most recent album was not the best (imho) - but the intimacy and energy at the shows was amazing,


This sums things up nicely.



Offline Gavin Tuesday

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Re: To all those who think Zoo TV is U2's best era/tour
« Reply #133 on: July 31, 2011, 03:05:20 PM »
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I originally posted this in the "360 tour love-fest" thread.........and of course got lambasted for it!!

I could not be bothered creating a thread for it, but this is what I wrote:

I have to say that I am disappointed. Disappointed because that 360 gets so much love. U2 Have done SO much better than this in the past, and as this new, younger generation of fans 'spread the word' I fear that the U2 of epic greatness will be forgotten forever.

The raw energy of the first few tours - a REAL band making REAL music, performing out of their skins every night to gain notoriety.

War Tour - watch the Red Rocks concert.

The Unforgettable Fire Tour - taking experimental music on the road, making the jump from theaters to arenas - oh my, the passion in those shows (see the Dortmund boot)

The Joshua Tree Tour - the Paris show springs to mind - anyone who says that With Or Without You is sung better or with more passion by Bono on the 360 tour than it was on its original tour is in my mind completely insane!


LoveTown - about 7 different setlists, completely different, rotated night after night.

Zoo Tv - the BEST concert tour in in history (imho), the MOTHER of all re-inventions, and the MOST exciting time to be a U2 fan. Period. And, anyone who says that Ultravolet is sung better or with more passion by Bono on the 360 tour than it was on its original tour is in my mind completely insane!

PopMart - the USA just didn't get it, but the rest of the world most certainly did. Most definitely NOT the disaster Pop haters, and U2 themselves, make it out to be. Epic.

Elevation - an arena tour done perfectly - ok the material form the most recent album was not the best (imho) - but the intimacy and energy at the shows was amazing, and after 9/11, spiritually uplifting.

Vertigo - not quite as good as Elevation, but ok.


So, I would rank EVERY tour, except Vertigo, above 360. Zoo TV, being the absolute best!

Im sorry, I probably should not have posted this in this thread, but I just had to. 360 is not, and should not be remembered as U2 at their best live.

Zoost, I want to bookmark this post, because it pretty accurately sums up how I feel about most of these shows.   I highlighted the parts I particularly agree with.

I think I probably like ATYCLB a bit more than you (your comments on the Elevation tour were spot on however) and liked Popmart a bit less than you.

I've seen all these shows except War & Lovetown...and I would REALLY loved to have seen Lovetown. Damn, all those set lists.  They were on fire then.

As far as 360 goes, like you, I'll repeat what I said elsewhere...I saw 360 twice, and while there were certain, fleeting, quintessential "U2 moments" I thought that something was missing at both the shows I saw.  Who knows, perhaps all that was missing was my younger self, but those shows definitely felt a little more hollow than what I'd seen before. It seemed to me at certain points in the show I swear I could actually see Bono trying to create some of those magical (for lack of a better word) moments U2 concerts are known for.  Whereas previously those moments came effortlessly and spontaneously.  I think someone once said "the moment you try for genius you've failed".  Don't get me wrong....I thoroughly enjoyed 360, and those shows were admittedly quite spectacular in every measurable way. (that first sight of the Claw as you come out of the tunnel to get to your seats is pretty impressive...I felt the same way as I did the first time I saw Red Square and the Grand Canyon..though obviously on a different scale).  But the Claw, that huge screen and all those lights can only take you so far.  Any band with the resources can create a show that technologically spectacular. What separates U2 is their music and the sprit they conjure up when the stars align.

Fookin' Great post Zoost
« Last Edit: July 31, 2011, 03:56:05 PM by Gavin Tuesday »

satellitedog01

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Re: To all those who think Zoo TV is U2's best era/tour
« Reply #134 on: July 31, 2011, 03:08:29 PM »
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The cars were definitely not ducks, or newts at that, or if they were, they got better by the start of tour.

What about very small rocks?

If they float your boat...