Author Topic: "Rows of Scalpers, Are Bearing Down on Me...."  (Read 15832 times)

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Offline imaginary friend

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Re: "Rows of Scalpers, Are Bearing Down on Me...."
« Reply #30 on: April 10, 2012, 10:18:06 PM »
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I saw Radiohead last night (possibly the best show I have ever seen, with a couple exceptions). What was especially interesting was how they handled the sale and use of their tickets. Basically, there were no real hardcopy tickets, but you simply brought the credit card with which you purchased your seats to the venue, and that is how you were admitted to the arena. There were supposedly no exceptions to this rule. As inconvenient as this may have been for some, it basically made the scalping of tickets impossible.

What do you think of this approach? Is it just because Radiohead retains such autonomy that they can do this kind of thing? Would U2 ever be able or willing to try something like this?

PS - Love 'em or hate 'em, you gotta admit that Radiohead has done a much better job than most bands of staying ahead of the curve and adapting early to the changes in the music business.

how long did it take for the crowd to get inside? seems that the bigger the venue, the more impractical such a method would become.

back in the spring of 1991, Guns and Roses had tentatively mapped out a 6-city club tour that they ultimately ended up not doing (surprise, surprise). What you're describing is exactly what they had planned to do regarding ticket sales.

Offline The Exile

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Re: "Rows of Scalpers, Are Bearing Down on Me...."
« Reply #31 on: April 10, 2012, 11:45:13 PM »
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I saw Radiohead last night (possibly the best show I have ever seen, with a couple exceptions). What was especially interesting was how they handled the sale and use of their tickets. Basically, there were no real hardcopy tickets, but you simply brought the credit card with which you purchased your seats to the venue, and that is how you were admitted to the arena. There were supposedly no exceptions to this rule. As inconvenient as this may have been for some, it basically made the scalping of tickets impossible.

What do you think of this approach? Is it just because Radiohead retains such autonomy that they can do this kind of thing? Would U2 ever be able or willing to try something like this?

PS - Love 'em or hate 'em, you gotta admit that Radiohead has done a much better job than most bands of staying ahead of the curve and adapting early to the changes in the music business.

how long did it take for the crowd to get inside? seems that the bigger the venue, the more impractical such a method would become.

back in the spring of 1991, Guns and Roses had tentatively mapped out a 6-city club tour that they ultimately ended up not doing (surprise, surprise). What you're describing is exactly what they had planned to do regarding ticket sales.

The line looked pretty long when we arrived, but we were in in ten minutes.

Sugarcube

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Re: "Rows of Scalpers, Are Bearing Down on Me...."
« Reply #32 on: April 11, 2012, 12:58:25 AM »
I have tickets to see both nights in London in an arena - Radiohead will be playing a significant number of songs from their current album. Indeed they have been opening with a song called Bloom. Bloom being the first song from their current album, The King of Limbs.

To be fair to Radiohead, they make no financial gain at all by trying to stamp out scalpers. They're trying to STOP fans paying way over the odds for tickets. U2 being the capitalist chaps they are, probably applaud scalping as a money making enterprise. Plus scalpers probably don't pay any tax in their own country on their ticket sales.

As for the credit card issue, it's not ideal but in my case, I have 6 months to sort it out. Plus you can contact the ticket issuers to iron out any problems. I saw Tom Waits in Dublin and he had a similar thing in place. It worked perfectly well.

I'm not saying its full proof but it's a pretty good step in the right direction. Plus Radiohead made it quite clear what the deal was before tickets went on sale. As Exile said, people just aren't used to it yet.

A quick look at Radioheads set list last night... they played 6 songs from their current album The King of Limbs out of a possible 8. 2 songs were singles or Greatest Hits during the set. All in, they played a 23 songs.

Proof you can still be a successful, massively creative band without resorting to 360 style tactics. Unless your current album is as bad as NLOTH.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2012, 01:27:27 AM by Sugarcube »

Sugarcube

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Re: "Rows of Scalpers, Are Bearing Down on Me...."
« Reply #33 on: April 11, 2012, 01:38:29 AM »
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I love the idea. It seems like every concert I want to go to is ridiculously hard to get decent tickets for because of the scalpers. For instance, I wanted to take my niece to see the Chili Peppers in May and the good floor tickets (seated) sold out in minutes. Never had a chance, and they're all over stubhub going for 2-3 times face value. F that.

I think U2 has a fairly good system of making sure the biggest fans get the best tickets through the U2.com subscription and presale code. I had no problems buying floor GA tickets during the 360 tour because I had the presale code.

The only issue with the asking for a credit card thing is what happens if you used the same card to buy two different types of tickets? If you get floor tickets and seat tickets, you're gonna have to arrive pretty early to get a good spot near the stage. I'm pretty sure the people with the seat tickets aren't going to want to stand in line like you have to get a good spot.

I'm not sure what the solution is. Maybe just sell'em all on the day of, first come, first served? Scalping would be impossible then, and yeah it would suck to stand in line, but if you really want to see that artist, you'll be there early enough to get in.

U2? A good system? They charged fans to join U2.con to get pre sale tickets. U2 never miss a trick when it comes to making money.

Lots of bands do pre sales for fans without charging anything. I got my Radiohead tickets through a pre sale on their website without it costing me a penny extra.

And damn fine tickets they were too. Standing the first night - on the second night 4 rows up from the floor in the first block up the side - in an arena.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2012, 03:06:41 AM by Sugarcube »

Offline The Exile

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Re: "Rows of Scalpers, Are Bearing Down on Me...."
« Reply #34 on: April 11, 2012, 02:25:40 AM »
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A quick look at Radioheads set list last night... they played 6 songs from their current album The King of Limbs out of a possible 8. 2 songs were singles or Greatest Hits during the set. All in, they played a 23 songs.

Proof you can still be a successful, massively creative band without resorting to 360 style tactics. Unless your current album is as bad as NLOTH.

And they also played a couple songs that were newer than the KOL material.

Sugarcube

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Re: "Rows of Scalpers, Are Bearing Down on Me...."
« Reply #35 on: April 11, 2012, 03:05:29 AM »
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A quick look at Radioheads set list last night... they played 6 songs from their current album The King of Limbs out of a possible 8. 2 songs were singles or Greatest Hits during the set. All in, they played a 23 songs.

Proof you can still be a successful, massively creative band without resorting to 360 style tactics. Unless your current album is as bad as NLOTH.

And they also played a couple songs that were newer than the KOL material.

Yeah, Identikit is great - I love it. And it's a fully formed song unlike, say, Stingray which was a hastily put together mess...

Offline tigerfan41

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Re: "Rows of Scalpers, Are Bearing Down on Me...."
« Reply #36 on: April 11, 2012, 10:03:17 AM »
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U2? A good system? They charged fans to join U2.con to get pre sale tickets. U2 never miss a trick when it comes to making money.

Lots of bands do pre sales for fans without charging anything. I got my Radiohead tickets through a pre sale on their website without it costing me a penny extra.

And damn fine tickets they were too. Standing the first night - on the second night 4 rows up from the floor in the first block up the side - in an arena.

The problem with doing presales without charging anything is that the scalpers take advantage of it. That's why when you go to buy tickets on the actual sale date for the public, all of the good tickets are picked over. Look at any major concert and you'll see that.

By having the subscription (and for what it's worth, I only subscribed the one year) the fans (not the scalpers) are actually given a chance to get good tickets. As an example, I went to the 360 show in 2009 in Chicago. I wanted GA floor badly and actually waited until they went on sale to the public. I had no chance at getting them because the scalpers snatched them all up (and I saw that by going to StubHub a short time later and seeing tons of GA $60 tickets going for $200+). Then I heard about the subscription deal, subscribed, and was able to easily get 2 GA floor tickets for the next 360 show I went to. Shockingly, by the time they went on sale to the public, they were already sold out....and yet again, the scalpers were attempting to profit massively from it.

Think about it. $50 for a one year subscription. Factor that in with the ticket price and you're looking at $85 per ticket for GA to see one of the greatest bands of all time. Compared to what Coldplay and other similar artists are charging, that's a bargain. Not only that, but you get the ability to stream all the albums from anywhere (I found this useful when at work as all my music was on my home computer at the time) and whatever CD they release to subscribers that year. I am not saying it's the absolute best solution, but in this case, it worked well and ensured that the biggest fans were given fair ticket prices.

Like I said, though, I do like Radiohead's idea and think it's great they're thinking of the fans....but I just question the implementation for those who buy seated tickets for a couple people and then floor GA tickets for themselves.

Offline MarsGirl

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Re: "Rows of Scalpers, Are Bearing Down on Me...."
« Reply #37 on: April 11, 2012, 10:05:24 AM »
You know, this does sound like a pain in the butt. And I did have to sell some tickets this summer (E. Lansing seats when I decided to do GA instead.)

I hate scalpers. I wish there was some great way to alleviate the issues they cause.... I spent two hours trying to get tickets to Florence + The Machine for this year at a VERY SMALL VENUE. I wanted 3 seats and I was particular about the section. I had to keep pinging the site like crazy until I finally got some acceptable seats (kept getting "no seats are available with your search criteria" and even got that a lot when I didnt specify a section I was trying to get).

I'm sure it's mostly those scalpers buying tickets causing all the problems. And it's deplorable that they sell the tickets at 3x their face value...

Offline tigerfan41

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Re: "Rows of Scalpers, Are Bearing Down on Me...."
« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2012, 10:10:38 AM »
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You know, this does sound like a pain in the butt. And I did have to sell some tickets this summer (E. Lansing seats when I decided to do GA instead.)

I hate scalpers. I wish there was some great way to alleviate the issues they cause.... I spent two hours trying to get tickets to Florence + The Machine for this year at a VERY SMALL VENUE. I wanted 3 seats and I was particular about the section. I had to keep pinging the site like crazy until I finally got some acceptable seats (kept getting "no seats are available with your search criteria" and even got that a lot when I didnt specify a section I was trying to get).

I'm sure it's mostly those scalpers buying tickets causing all the problems. And it's deplorable that they sell the tickets at 3x their face value...

That EL show was pretty awesome. Definitely better to be GA for that than seated given the lethargic seated crowd.

And same experience for me with regards to having difficulty getting acceptable seats. What I've noticed is Ticketmaster is always ridiculously slow right when the tickets go on sale, almost as if thousands of scalpers are attacking the site to snatch up as many tickets as possible....oh wait, that's what's happening. And it's always surprising when it happens to lesser known artists/smaller venues. My sister/niece wanted me to get tickets for an Adam Lambert concert on his first tour, and even though I was online right before they went on sale, the tickets were picked up so fast I never had a chance.....and then they showed up on Stubhub for 2-3 times face value. It was a smaller venue, too.

I mean, yeah, Ticketmaster has put CAPTCHA and other similar things in place, but the scalpers have their methods to get around that. 

Offline MarsGirl

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Re: "Rows of Scalpers, Are Bearing Down on Me...."
« Reply #39 on: April 11, 2012, 10:28:48 AM »
East Lansing ended up being my favorite show because I ended up on the rail in front of the stage, right in front of Bono's mike. So there was no lethargy going on my end!!

Yeah, I was so surprised that it was such a pain in the butt to get tickets for Florence!! I mean, I seriously thought I'd have no trouble getting my choice spot. GA is, strangely, at the back of the venue for that venue... So I didnt want those... So I was going for some lower section seats. I finally got them, but it look several hours. I almost gave up. But, yeah, those tickets are all over those scalping sites for 3x what they are worth.

I guess I forgot what it was like when you dont have a presale code (like U2 concerts).

But the scalpers even sign up for clubs like u2.com just to get tickets in the presale. It's so unfair.

Offline imaginary friend

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Re: "Rows of Scalpers, Are Bearing Down on Me...."
« Reply #40 on: April 11, 2012, 10:42:20 AM »
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To be fair to Radiohead, they make no financial gain at all by trying to stamp out scalpers. They're trying to STOP fans paying way over the odds for tickets. U2 being the capitalist chaps they are, probably applaud scalping as a money making enterprise. Plus scalpers probably don't pay any tax in their own country on their ticket sales.


stop blaming the scalpers for the idiocy of the fans.

a few years back, KI$$ played Stockholm for the first time in decades. scalpers gobbled up huge numbers of tix, and took a massive bath when the fans refused to buy them.

Offline U2OnceAgain

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Re: "Rows of Scalpers, Are Bearing Down on Me...."
« Reply #41 on: April 11, 2012, 10:42:47 AM »
All this is assuming that the scalpers are calling in or getting in line to buy tickets, they are not, tickets are releaed directly to them. That is why they always have the best seats and you can be frist in line and still not get good tickets. I was first in line for a U2 Elevation sale and all that was left was upper section seats. A huge amount of tickets are held back and given to stub hub etc....

Offline sw

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Re: "Rows of Scalpers, Are Bearing Down on Me...."
« Reply #42 on: April 11, 2012, 01:30:47 PM »
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All this is assuming that the scalpers are calling in or getting in line to buy tickets, they are not, tickets are releaed directly to them. That is why they always have the best seats and you can be frist in line and still not get good tickets. I was first in line for a U2 Elevation sale and all that was left was upper section seats. A huge amount of tickets are held back and given to stub hub etc....

I have believed this for MANY years. More than once I was at or near the front of a line for tickets and wound up in nosebleed seats. Even if every Ticketmaster outlet was coughing up tickets at the exact same time, it still defies logic. I'm talking about pre-Internet when you'd go to an outlet, get a wristband and either they'd start with #1, or they'd start with a random number. And no band that I've seen in recent years has ever answered a direct question on the topic in a way that I'd find satisfying.

Offline THRILLHO

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Re: "Rows of Scalpers, Are Bearing Down on Me...."
« Reply #43 on: April 11, 2012, 02:19:50 PM »
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A quick look at Radioheads set list last night... they played 6 songs from their current album The King of Limbs out of a possible 8. 2 songs were singles or Greatest Hits during the set. All in, they played a 23 songs.

Proof you can still be a successful, massively creative band without resorting to 360 style tactics. Unless your current album is as bad as NLOTH.

And they also played a couple songs that were newer than the KOL material.

in Dallas they played 7 of 8 KOL songs, 2 post KOL songs <daily mail, staircase> and 2 newer songs <identikit, skirting on the surface>, 1 of which was the official live debut. We also got the live debut of the Amnesiac b-side Amazing Sound of Orgy.

re: the no tickets

i was scared that i wouldn't be let in for some reason, it kinda messed with my friends to that we didn't have hardcopies. long line, in in 10 minutes is exactly right.

Sugarcube

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Re: "Rows of Scalpers, Are Bearing Down on Me...."
« Reply #44 on: April 11, 2012, 02:25:38 PM »
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U2? A good system? They charged fans to join U2.con to get pre sale tickets. U2 never miss a trick when it comes to making money.

Lots of bands do pre sales for fans without charging anything. I got my Radiohead tickets through a pre sale on their website without it costing me a penny extra.

And damn fine tickets they were too. Standing the first night - on the second night 4 rows up from the floor in the first block up the side - in an arena.

The problem with doing presales without charging anything is that the scalpers take advantage of it. That's why when you go to buy tickets on the actual sale date for the public, all of the good tickets are picked over. Look at any major concert and you'll see that.

By having the subscription (and for what it's worth, I only subscribed the one year) the fans (not the scalpers) are actually given a chance to get good tickets. As an example, I went to the 360 show in 2009 in Chicago. I wanted GA floor badly and actually waited until they went on sale to the public. I had no chance at getting them because the scalpers snatched them all up (and I saw that by going to StubHub a short time later and seeing tons of GA $60 tickets going for $200+). Then I heard about the subscription deal, subscribed, and was able to easily get 2 GA floor tickets for the next 360 show I went to. Shockingly, by the time they went on sale to the public, they were already sold out....and yet again, the scalpers were attempting to profit massively from it.

Think about it. $50 for a one year subscription. Factor that in with the ticket price and you're looking at $85 per ticket for GA to see one of the greatest bands of all time. Compared to what Coldplay and other similar artists are charging, that's a bargain. Not only that, but you get the ability to stream all the albums from anywhere (I found this useful when at work as all my music was on my home computer at the time) and whatever CD they release to subscribers that year. I am not saying it's the absolute best solution, but in this case, it worked well and ensured that the biggest fans were given fair ticket prices.

Like I said, though, I do like Radiohead's idea and think it's great they're thinking of the fans....but I just question the implementation for those who buy seated tickets for a couple people and then floor GA tickets for themselves.

I see what you mean. But fans are as guilty of scalping as scalpers are. Besides, it would be well worth a scalper paying a U2.con subscription if he or she could sell the tickets on for double or triple the price. I'm sure this happens all the time.

Charging fans for a pre sale is totally unfair and U2 shouldn't do it.