Author Topic: Could U2's New Album Sell Less Then NLOTH ?  (Read 15828 times)

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Offline bethere

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Re: Could U2's New Album Sell Less Then NLOTH ?
« Reply #45 on: March 11, 2013, 03:26:01 PM »
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They've just got off the back of the biggest tour in history, they don't need to prove they are a great live act again, it's there, set in stone. What matters is their artistry and that they have the chops to reinvent themselves again. If we don't get greatness, there won't be an album, simple as that.

They haven't needed to prove they are a great live act since the 1980s.  They didn't need the ticket gross and attendance figures of 360 to prove that, but still they did it.  Why? the $$$$$$

I really don't expect reinvention by U2 at this stage of their career.  It's doable, but I don't expect to see it, and it's certainly not a prerequisite for U2 to continue recording and touring.  And are you really suggesting that NLOTH or Bomb were great albums?

        BOMB is the best thing U2 has ever done with the exception of Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby.

Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: Could U2's New Album Sell Less Then NLOTH ?
« Reply #46 on: March 11, 2013, 03:28:53 PM »
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              Well, U2 had that same legion of fans when the POP album and the POPMART tour were launched in 1997. They were not enough to save U2 from what happened that year.

And they bought Pop, too.  Plus there were more casual fans who bought albums back then than in 2009.

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NLOTH and 360 were massive successes compared to POP and POPMART.

It's nonsense to say NLOTH was a massive success compared to Pop, although certainly, 360 was more commercially successful than PopMart, but it had nothing to do with NLOTH.

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               Most of my friends are U2 fans and they get the album every time it comes out. The only thing is, they don't buy it, they obtain it for free.

They're not real fans, but rather the casual fans who steal the music rather than buy a copy, unlike U2's legions of dedicated fans like moi.

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              Lets also remember that POP got just as much radio airplay as ATYCLB and HTDAAB yet it did not sell like those two albums did.

Pop was probably not what a lot of casual fans expected from U2.

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              It will take much more exposure and airplay to just be able to sell the same number of albums in 2013/2014 as you did in 2009.

I've said that probably the only way they would sell more copies of the next album is if they had a popular hit lead single, which NLOTH didn't have.

Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: Could U2's New Album Sell Less Then NLOTH ?
« Reply #47 on: March 11, 2013, 03:29:42 PM »
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They've just got off the back of the biggest tour in history, they don't need to prove they are a great live act again, it's there, set in stone. What matters is their artistry and that they have the chops to reinvent themselves again. If we don't get greatness, there won't be an album, simple as that.

They haven't needed to prove they are a great live act since the 1980s.  They didn't need the ticket gross and attendance figures of 360 to prove that, but still they did it.  Why? the $$$$$$

I really don't expect reinvention by U2 at this stage of their career.  It's doable, but I don't expect to see it, and it's certainly not a prerequisite for U2 to continue recording and touring.  And are you really suggesting that NLOTH or Bomb were great albums?

        BOMB is the best thing U2 has ever done with the exception of Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby.

I guess it takes all sorts to make a world or a fan community.


Offline bethere

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Re: Could U2's New Album Sell Less Then NLOTH ?
« Reply #48 on: March 11, 2013, 03:30:09 PM »
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Yes, but Bono has made it clear his definition of "greatness" is measured by getting on radio and being played in clubs. He's yearning for popularity he's simply not going to get unless he's prepared to compromise the band's musical integrity to unrecognizable levels.

Not really.  Achtung Baby was extremely popular and they didn't compromise the band's musical integrity making it.

The reality is that if U2 make a truly great album again, it like as not will get played a lot on the radio.  I don't know about clubs though.

             There are a group of fans that left the band with Achtung Baby. Claimed the band soldout. You find these people every now and then when they say "U2 has not done anything good since the Joshua Tree". This was not a very large group, but it was there. Whenever there is a change in U2's music direction there is always a segment of U2 fans that is disappointed and some of them stop being fans.

Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: Could U2's New Album Sell Less Then NLOTH ?
« Reply #49 on: March 11, 2013, 03:31:11 PM »
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"Backs to the wall " ?????

Do we really believe Edge sipping Chardonnay in Malibu or Bono sipping Bordeaux in the South of France or adam enjoying a wee toke in jamaica or Larry scowling away in a pub drinking guinness while waiting for his next acting gig really feel their backs are against the wall ?

I didn't say that. I'm saying the album has to be great or they are f*****.

Why? The public didn't appear to like NLOTH but that didn't stop them from attending the 360 Tour in record numbers.

U2 could release whatever they want and still do well with live concerts regardless.

  NLOTH was the 7th biggest selling album of 2009, so it was one of the most popular albums of the year with the public. U2 can't release anything they want and except great numbers on tour as POP and POPMART showed.

There is not a scientific direct relationship between record sales and concert ticket sales


Offline Droo

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Re: Could U2's New Album Sell Less Then NLOTH ?
« Reply #50 on: March 11, 2013, 03:32:42 PM »
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They've just got off the back of the biggest tour in history, they don't need to prove they are a great live act again, it's there, set in stone. What matters is their artistry and that they have the chops to reinvent themselves again. If we don't get greatness, there won't be an album, simple as that.

They haven't needed to prove they are a great live act since the 1980s.  They didn't need the ticket gross and attendance figures of 360 to prove that, but still they did it.  Why? the $$$$$$

I really don't expect reinvention by U2 at this stage of their career.  It's doable, but I don't expect to see it, and it's certainly not a prerequisite for U2 to continue recording and touring.  And are you really suggesting that NLOTH or Bomb were great albums?

        BOMB is the best thing U2 has ever done with the exception of Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby.

Maude: Well, you may be a little cautious, but what's the harm? Some people like chunky peanut butter and some like smooth.
Flanders: And some people prefer to steer clear of that hornet's nest altogether! I'll take a piece of plain white bread, thank you, maybe with a --
Maude, Rod, and Todd: Glass of water on the side for dipping!

Sorry, that Simpsons scene was the first thing that came to mind after reading that.

Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: Could U2's New Album Sell Less Then NLOTH ?
« Reply #51 on: March 11, 2013, 03:33:23 PM »
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Yes, but Bono has made it clear his definition of "greatness" is measured by getting on radio and being played in clubs. He's yearning for popularity he's simply not going to get unless he's prepared to compromise the band's musical integrity to unrecognizable levels.

Not really.  Achtung Baby was extremely popular and they didn't compromise the band's musical integrity making it.

The reality is that if U2 make a truly great album again, it like as not will get played a lot on the radio.  I don't know about clubs though.

             There are a group of fans that left the band with Achtung Baby. Claimed the band soldout. You find these people every now and then when they say "U2 has not done anything good since the Joshua Tree". This was not a very large group, but it was there. Whenever there is a change in U2's music direction there is always a segment of U2 fans that is disappointed and some of them stop being fans.

Sure, they lost some fans and they gained some fans with AB.  They sold more tickets for Zoo TV than for TJT tour, though.


Offline Vox

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Re: Could U2's New Album Sell Less Then NLOTH ?
« Reply #52 on: March 11, 2013, 03:33:37 PM »


             There are a group of fans that left the band with Achtung Baby. Claimed the band soldout. You find these people every now and then when they say "U2 has not done anything good since the Joshua Tree". This was not a very large group, but it was there. Whenever there is a change in U2's music direction there is always a segment of U2 fans that is disappointed and some of them stop being fans.
[/quote]

I know several people who feel this way.  Once Bono put on the shades it was over for them. 

Offline JTBaby

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Re: Could U2's New Album Sell Less Then NLOTH ?
« Reply #53 on: March 11, 2013, 03:34:28 PM »
Adele. Huge sales. 3000 seat venues. Correlation. Album sales. Ticket sales. None.


Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: Could U2's New Album Sell Less Then NLOTH ?
« Reply #54 on: March 11, 2013, 03:35:03 PM »
I became a U2 fan in 1988 and I thought the Great Reinvention of 1991-1993 was bloody marvellous.

« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 03:41:41 PM by Tumbling Dice »

Offline bethere

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Re: Could U2's New Album Sell Less Then NLOTH ?
« Reply #55 on: March 11, 2013, 03:42:09 PM »
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Album sales are meaningless to ticket sales.

Adele plays 3,000 seaters.

360 proved it too, casual non album owning fans came out in their tens of thousands to hear the hits and take a leak during Unknown Caller.

                 Album sales matter. Just look at the impact the Joshua Tree album had on the Joshua Tree Tour. Look at the impact POP had on the POPMART tour. Look at the impact Thriller had on the Jacksons Victory tour in 1984. And yes, look at the impact NLOTH had on the 360 tour. Big sales or poor sales will impact how well an individual artist does on the road.

                Just look at how careful U2 still is with the content of each album and when it is released as well as when the tour follows. Its important.

            Yes, there are some artist like Mariah Carey or the Black Eyed peas that have a very low ratio of albums sold to tickets sold. But both Mariah Carey and the Black Eyed Peas have better concert ticket sales when their albums sell more and the songs on those albums get more radio airplay.

            Again, if it was just a matter of playing the old hits for U2, ever show on the POPMART tour would have been soldout. Both POPMART and 360 had the same ratio of hits to new material roughly. The difference between the level of success of the two tours was the greater success of NLOTH over POP!

Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: Could U2's New Album Sell Less Then NLOTH ?
« Reply #56 on: March 11, 2013, 03:44:55 PM »
Album sales can't always matter much because NLOTH sold fewer than Pop.

« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 03:51:43 PM by Tumbling Dice »

Offline So Cruel

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Re: Could U2's New Album Sell Less Then NLOTH ?
« Reply #57 on: March 11, 2013, 03:49:19 PM »
Oh boy, here we go. Another No Line album sales/360 ticket sales discussion with lots of Popmart stats from Bethere.

JTBaby, do you still have that double facepalm pic handy?

Offline bethere

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Re: Could U2's New Album Sell Less Then NLOTH ?
« Reply #58 on: March 11, 2013, 03:54:50 PM »
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              Well, U2 had that same legion of fans when the POP album and the POPMART tour were launched in 1997. They were not enough to save U2 from what happened that year.

And they bought Pop, too.  Plus there were more casual fans who bought albums back then than in 2009.

Quote
Quote
NLOTH and 360 were massive successes compared to POP and POPMART.

It's nonsense to say NLOTH was a massive success compared to Pop, although certainly, 360 was more commercially successful than PopMart, but it had nothing to do with NLOTH.



             Yet, POP finished at #50 for the year in the United States for 1997. In contrast NLOTH finished at #22 for the year in 2009. POP was not in the top 20 best selling albums of 1997 WORLDWIDE. NLOTH was the #7 best selling album WORLDWIDE of 2009.

                   Those are huge differences and they impacted the tours for each album!


Quote

Quote
               Most of my friends are U2 fans and they get the album every time it comes out. The only thing is, they don't buy it, they obtain it for free.

They're not real fans, but rather the casual fans who steal the music rather than buy a copy, unlike U2's legions of dedicated fans like moi.

               Thats not true because they go to multiple shows, sometimes in different states or even countries, and even by merchandise like t-shirts. Some of them have even been to Bono's house south of Dublin.

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Quote
              Lets also remember that POP got just as much radio airplay as ATYCLB and HTDAAB yet it did not sell like those two albums did.

Pop was probably not what a lot of casual fans expected from U2.

Quote
              It will take much more exposure and airplay to just be able to sell the same number of albums in 2013/2014 as you did in 2009.

I've said that probably the only way they would sell more copies of the next album is if they had a popular hit lead single, which NLOTH didn't have

                It would probably have to be more of a hit than Vertigo or Beautiful Day for them to outsell NLOTH. Again, your looking at the market of 2014 VS 2009. Its harder to sell albums in 2013/2014 than it was in 2009.

Offline bethere

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Re: Could U2's New Album Sell Less Then NLOTH ?
« Reply #59 on: March 11, 2013, 04:01:58 PM »
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"Backs to the wall " ?????

Do we really believe Edge sipping Chardonnay in Malibu or Bono sipping Bordeaux in the South of France or adam enjoying a wee toke in jamaica or Larry scowling away in a pub drinking guinness while waiting for his next acting gig really feel their backs are against the wall ?

I didn't say that. I'm saying the album has to be great or they are f*****.

Why? The public didn't appear to like NLOTH but that didn't stop them from attending the 360 Tour in record numbers.

U2 could release whatever they want and still do well with live concerts regardless.

  NLOTH was the 7th biggest selling album of 2009, so it was one of the most popular albums of the year with the public. U2 can't release anything they want and except great numbers on tour as POP and POPMART showed.

There is not a scientific direct relationship between record sales and concert ticket sales

             There is in the sense that whenever an artist sells more albums, they sell more concert tickets. Rarely, if ever, do you find an artist that increases in album sales with their latest album, but see's a decline in concert ticket sales when compared with the previous album and tour for that artist.