Author Topic: Could U2's New Album Sell Less Then NLOTH ?  (Read 15824 times)

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Offline JTBaby

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Re: Could U2's New Album Sell Less Then NLOTH ?
« Reply #60 on: March 11, 2013, 04:02:36 PM »
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Oh boy, here we go. Another No Line album sales/360 ticket sales discussion with lots of Popmart stats from Bethere.

JTBaby, do you still have that double facepalm pic handy?

Later.

For now it's just fun watching the cutting and pasting frenzy and the double standards.

First we will be lectured on how sales matter to tours by pointing to tours past yet in different threads we will be told how the music industry is different.

Then when things like Adele's success in cd sales but not in ensuing tours will be pointed out then we will get the "failed statistics 101" excuses of how that can be ignored as its just a "fluke".

The conclusion for some people comes before the data and any evidence not fitting said conclusion will be conveniently disregarded.

The hornets nest is in full fury. It would be funny if it wasn't sad and pathetic.


Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: Could U2's New Album Sell Less Then NLOTH ?
« Reply #61 on: March 11, 2013, 04:05:43 PM »
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"Backs to the wall " ?????

Do we really believe Edge sipping Chardonnay in Malibu or Bono sipping Bordeaux in the South of France or adam enjoying a wee toke in jamaica or Larry scowling away in a pub drinking guinness while waiting for his next acting gig really feel their backs are against the wall ?

I didn't say that. I'm saying the album has to be great or they are f*****.

Why? The public didn't appear to like NLOTH but that didn't stop them from attending the 360 Tour in record numbers.

U2 could release whatever they want and still do well with live concerts regardless.

  NLOTH was the 7th biggest selling album of 2009, so it was one of the most popular albums of the year with the public. U2 can't release anything they want and except great numbers on tour as POP and POPMART showed.

There is not a scientific direct relationship between record sales and concert ticket sales

             There is in the sense that whenever an artist sells more albums, they sell more concert tickets. Rarely, if ever, do you find an artist that increases in album sales with their latest album, but see's a decline in concert ticket sales when compared with the previous album and tour for that artist.

           

Prince did with 3121 compared with his previous album, Musicology.


Offline bethere

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Re: Could U2's New Album Sell Less Then NLOTH ?
« Reply #62 on: March 11, 2013, 04:06:00 PM »
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Yes, but Bono has made it clear his definition of "greatness" is measured by getting on radio and being played in clubs. He's yearning for popularity he's simply not going to get unless he's prepared to compromise the band's musical integrity to unrecognizable levels.

Not really.  Achtung Baby was extremely popular and they didn't compromise the band's musical integrity making it.

The reality is that if U2 make a truly great album again, it like as not will get played a lot on the radio.  I don't know about clubs though.

             There are a group of fans that left the band with Achtung Baby. Claimed the band soldout. You find these people every now and then when they say "U2 has not done anything good since the Joshua Tree". This was not a very large group, but it was there. Whenever there is a change in U2's music direction there is always a segment of U2 fans that is disappointed and some of them stop being fans.

Sure, they lost some fans and they gained some fans with AB.  They sold more tickets for Zoo TV than for TJT tour, though.

            Well, to be fair to the Joshua Tree tour, when it first started in April 1987, U2 were not yet the biggest band in the world. That did not completely happen until the summer and the fall of 1987. So Joshua Tree Tour had a much larger hill to climb in that respect than ZOO TV.

Offline Midnight is Where the Day Begins

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Re: Could U2's New Album Sell Less Then NLOTH ?
« Reply #63 on: March 11, 2013, 04:06:18 PM »
I don't exactly know if I should bother responding, or just watch while sipping a nice glass of lemonade.

Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: Could U2's New Album Sell Less Then NLOTH ?
« Reply #64 on: March 11, 2013, 04:09:15 PM »
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Yes, but Bono has made it clear his definition of "greatness" is measured by getting on radio and being played in clubs. He's yearning for popularity he's simply not going to get unless he's prepared to compromise the band's musical integrity to unrecognizable levels.

Not really.  Achtung Baby was extremely popular and they didn't compromise the band's musical integrity making it.

The reality is that if U2 make a truly great album again, it like as not will get played a lot on the radio.  I don't know about clubs though.

             There are a group of fans that left the band with Achtung Baby. Claimed the band soldout. You find these people every now and then when they say "U2 has not done anything good since the Joshua Tree". This was not a very large group, but it was there. Whenever there is a change in U2's music direction there is always a segment of U2 fans that is disappointed and some of them stop being fans.

Sure, they lost some fans and they gained some fans with AB.  They sold more tickets for Zoo TV than for TJT tour, though.

            Well, to be fair to the Joshua Tree tour, when it first started in April 1987, U2 were not yet the biggest band in the world. That did not completely happen until the summer and the fall of 1987. So Joshua Tree Tour had a much larger hill to climb in that respect than ZOO TV.

Of course.  And they had lots of time to build up their reputation and fanbase to have a hugely successful tour with 360 - the culmination of thirty years of music, which was the reason why so many went to see the tour.  Nostalgia.


Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: Could U2's New Album Sell Less Then NLOTH ?
« Reply #65 on: March 11, 2013, 04:10:00 PM »
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I don't exactly know if I should bother responding, or just watch while sipping a nice glass of lemonade.

Feel free to wade in anytime you like.  I hope you have the shoes for it.


Offline bethere

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Re: Could U2's New Album Sell Less Then NLOTH ?
« Reply #66 on: March 11, 2013, 04:10:05 PM »
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Adele. Huge sales. 3000 seat venues. Correlation. Album sales. Ticket sales. None.

             Well, thats actually more fitting of Mariah Carey and as I have repeatedly said, every artist will have a different ratio of albums sold to tickets sold, but within that ratio, when you sell more albums, you sell more tickets. Thats the relationship.

               Also, to be fair to Adele, her tour for Adele 21 was cancelled early because of problems with her throat. I'm sure if that had not happened that she would have played some arena sized venues later in the tour.

Offline bethere

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Re: Could U2's New Album Sell Less Then NLOTH ?
« Reply #67 on: March 11, 2013, 04:12:11 PM »
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I became a U2 fan in 1988 and I thought the Great Reinvention of 1991-1993 was bloody marvellous.

              I actually did not think of it as a reinvention. I just though of it as a new album with great songs and great style. I was not married to the Joshua Tree like a lot of other people back then, so it I actually got into Achtung Baby with the just the first and 2nd listen through.

Offline bethere

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Re: Could U2's New Album Sell Less Then NLOTH ?
« Reply #68 on: March 11, 2013, 04:15:22 PM »
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Album sales can't always matter much because NLOTH sold fewer than Pop.

           Thats only because the 1997 market place was very different to the 2009 market place. POP's sales would have made it the #1 album of 2009, but back in 1997 it was only the #50 album in the USA and did not make the top 20 worldwide. You can't make unit to unit comparisons of albums released in the last 5 years to albums released back in 2001 and earlier. You have to adjust for the different markets they were released into.

Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: Could U2's New Album Sell Less Then NLOTH ?
« Reply #69 on: March 11, 2013, 04:16:09 PM »
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I became a U2 fan in 1988 and I thought the Great Reinvention of 1991-1993 was bloody marvellous.

              I actually did not think of it as a reinvention. I just though of it as a new album with great songs and great style. I was not married to the Joshua Tree like a lot of other people back then, so it I actually got into Achtung Baby with the just the first and 2nd listen through.

It was a reinvention of their music and image.  Very conscious.


Offline JTBaby

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Re: Could U2's New Album Sell Less Then NLOTH ?
« Reply #70 on: March 11, 2013, 04:16:21 PM »
FACT is she hasn't played arenas. Whether or not you THINK she would have is irrelevant.

FACT is all those people outselling U2 are not even close in ticket sales for tours.

FACT is there is no correlation these days between album sales and concert sales.

Some people like Springsteen or U2 could play massive tours without even releasing an album and people selling huge numbers of albums could struggle to put bums in seats.


Offline Tumbling Dice

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Re: Could U2's New Album Sell Less Then NLOTH ?
« Reply #71 on: March 11, 2013, 04:19:22 PM »
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Album sales can't always matter much because NLOTH sold fewer than Pop.

           Thats only because the 1997 market place was very different to the 2009 market place. POP's sales would have made it the #1 album of 2009, but back in 1997 it was only the #50 album in the USA and did not make the top 20 worldwide. You can't make unit to unit comparisons of albums released in the last 5 years to albums released back in 2001 and earlier. You have to adjust for the different markets they were released into.

We donít know how many people have heard the music from NLOTH since there isnít an illegal download chart.  For all we know, the only people to have heard NLOTH are those that bought a copy.  However, we do know that, for example, 6 million people listened to Pop. 


Offline Midnight is Where the Day Begins

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Re: Could U2's New Album Sell Less Then NLOTH ?
« Reply #72 on: March 11, 2013, 04:22:47 PM »
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Album sales can't always matter much because NLOTH sold fewer than Pop.

           Thats only because the 1997 market place was very different to the 2009 market place. POP's sales would have made it the #1 album of 2009, but back in 1997 it was only the #50 album in the USA and did not make the top 20 worldwide. You can't make unit to unit comparisons of albums released in the last 5 years to albums released back in 2001 and earlier. You have to adjust for the different markets they were released into.

We donít know how many people have heard the music from NLOTH since there isnít an illegal download chart.  For all we know, the only people to have heard NLOTH are those that bought a copy.  However, we do know that, for example, 6 million people listened to Pop.

And we know that NLOTH was leaked early, which in some way had to have some effect on the overall sales of the album. A causal music fan might have just downloaded the album and left it at that. Their mindset could be that downloading the album would save them a $10 charge for purchasing the physical album itself.There is no way to determine how this effected sales though.

Offline Bads316

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Re: Could U2's New Album Sell Less Then NLOTH ?
« Reply #73 on: March 11, 2013, 04:22:58 PM »
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Offline bethere

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Re: Could U2's New Album Sell Less Then NLOTH ?
« Reply #74 on: March 11, 2013, 04:24:17 PM »
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Oh boy, here we go. Another No Line album sales/360 ticket sales discussion with lots of Popmart stats from Bethere.

JTBaby, do you still have that double facepalm pic handy?

Later.

For now it's just fun watching the cutting and pasting frenzy and the double standards.

First we will be lectured on how sales matter to tours by pointing to tours past yet in different threads we will be told how the music industry is different.



              Well, you still have to buy a concert ticket if you want to attend a concert. You don't have to buy an album though if you want to own it. Thats why the concert industry has not collapsed, but the recorded music industry has collapsed.

Quote
Then when things like Adele's success in cd sales but not in ensuing tours will be pointed out then we will get the "failed statistics 101" excuses of how that can be ignored as its just a "fluke".

.

                  Never said that was a FLUKE but is something that is seen throughout the industry. I've mentioned Mariah Carey many times before being an artist that sales massive amounts of albums, but see's only relative small sales when it comes to concert tickets.

Quote
The conclusion for some people comes before the data and any evidence not fitting said conclusion will be conveniently disregarded.

The hornets nest is in full fury. It would be funny if it wasn't sad and pathetic

                 Well, why do you continue to read posts you regard as sad and pathetic?