Author Topic: Can the rules be more specific?  (Read 6511 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline soapit

  • Precious Stone
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,527
Can the rules be more specific?
« on: January 01, 2014, 03:00:49 AM »
Can the rules be more specific? i dont think the vague non specific nature of the way the rules are written helps in people not crossing the line. either this or can the mods be more active in letting us know what ok and whats not in reality?



Offline m2

  • Administrator
  • Desert Rose
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,144
  • I love the smell of fresh forum killspam.
Re: Can the rules be more specific?
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2014, 11:04:27 AM »
Yep, I'm sure the mods will be as active/vocal as we need to be in addressing things going forward. Whether it be via PM or posting in threads, we'll help however we can.

I would suggest that, maybe, if you think you're crossing a line or getting close to it, you probably are. The parts in there about "avoid even the appearance of these things" and "It's not in the rules is never an excuse for poor behavior" are important guidelines.

zootv

  • Guest
Re: Can the rules be more specific?
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2014, 12:14:28 PM »
I'm afraid to post now. Feels like kindergarten , IMO. 

Offline soapit

  • Precious Stone
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,527
Re: Can the rules be more specific?
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2014, 01:50:09 PM »
if i'm not clear on the actual rules i'll be even less clear on what the appearance of breaking the rule looks like. additionally i'm sure even with all the self policing i can muster there will be times when my opinion of whats complying will be different to others.

just as an example the only pm i got for behaviour wasnt clear and when i replied to explain what exactly the issue with what i'd done was i got no response, therefore it left me to assume i was actually  within the line, but not really clearer on where the line actually was.

active and vocal mods will be good, its just that a lot of the warnings are very vague. the vast bulk i have no idea who is specifically being referred to or whether its for me (beyond no pm arriving) and therefore whether i need to check myself (before i wreck myself).

i tend to think the nature of the way the rules are written make it harder or less likely for mod to be able to tell when its time to step in as well as giving them good basis to explain what the problem is (my main point i guess).



Offline singnomore

  • Administrator
  • Airborne Ranger
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,421
  • These city lights, they shine as silver and gold
Re: Can the rules be more specific?
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2014, 02:33:31 PM »
The key things for me here is focusing in what is being posted and why. How that is executed leads to whether or not someone is proactively being a d**k. Looking at some of the posting behaviours over the past few months that is the boundary that has been pushed more and more.

The object is to ensure we continue open discussion whilst encouraging posters to think about how some of the posts come over.

Otherwise previous boundaries remain in play but these should become clearer if we crack the 'how' of posting.

That help?

Offline briscoetheque

  • Traffic Cop (Rue du Marais)
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,727
  • R-E-S-T-E-C-P
Re: Can the rules be more specific?
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2014, 02:49:56 PM »
What will happen is there will be a steel hammer for a month or two where people will get a ticking off for saying "bottom".

So ride it out til March.

Offline soapit

  • Precious Stone
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,527
Re: Can the rules be more specific?
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2014, 02:53:26 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
The key things for me here is focusing in what is being posted and why. How that is executed leads to whether or not someone is proactively being a d**k. Looking at some of the posting behaviours over the past few months that is the boundary that has been pushed more and more.

The object is to ensure we continue open discussion whilst encouraging posters to think about how some of the posts come over.

Otherwise previous boundaries remain in play but these should become clearer if we crack the 'how' of posting.

That help?

will be interesting at what point someone is ruled to be being a d**k and for what.

not really about the new rules specifically. just the philosophy of how they are framed.

Offline singnomore

  • Administrator
  • Airborne Ranger
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,421
  • These city lights, they shine as silver and gold
Re: Can the rules be more specific?
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2014, 02:59:32 PM »

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
The key things for me here is focusing in what is being posted and why. How that is executed leads to whether or not someone is proactively being a d**k. Looking at some of the posting behaviours over the past few months that is the boundary that has been pushed more and more.

The object is to ensure we continue open discussion whilst encouraging posters to think about how some of the posts come over.

Otherwise previous boundaries remain in play but these should become clearer if we crack the 'how' of posting.

That help?

will be interesting at what point someone is ruled to be being a d**k and for what.

not really about the new rules specifically. just the philosophy of how they are framed.

I agree the nature of a conversation and how it's being handled can drive the view as to whether someone is attempting to discuss a topic and giving personal insight as opposed to posting for the sake of it. Therefore a discussion on a similar topic handled in different ways could lead one to being viewed in the 'd**k' category and the other not.

I guess it's trying to put yourself in the shoes of the poster your discussing with and trying to think about what intent that person would receive the post - that may help?

zootv

  • Guest
Re: Can the rules be more specific?
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2014, 03:01:03 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
The key things for me here is focusing in what is being posted and why. How that is executed leads to whether or not someone is proactively being a d**k. Looking at some of the posting behaviours over the past few months that is the boundary that has been pushed more and more.

The object is to ensure we continue open discussion whilst encouraging posters to think about how some of the posts come over.

Otherwise previous boundaries remain in play but these should become clearer if we crack the 'how' of posting.

That help?

It's just so ambiguous. What offends one, may not offend another. I think this will lead to a less interesting forum. It actually censors individualism. There a more than a few members who may come across like "d **ks", but there posts are still interesting. In many cases, more interesting than some of the other mundane  U2 related stuff that gets posted around here. Respectfully, I must say these new guidelines are misplaced and overall a bad idea.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2014, 03:04:01 PM by zootv »

Offline an tha

  • Airborne Ranger
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,430
  • You can swallow, or you can spit.
Re: Can the rules be more specific?
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2014, 03:01:11 PM »
As someone who has had a few "run ins" with the mods over things I have posted I thought I would chime in....

For me the rules as they are written are pretty unimportant, before you shoot me let me explain..... - ok there are obvious things like porn, racism, abuse of people etc. that are clearly unacceptable and most decent people won't go there, and if they do well I think we all know what is going to happen and rightly so - but the "don't be a d**k" rule is actually a prety good way of doing things IMO..... You only need to worry about it and how it works if you get "your collar felt"..... When that happens I trust that any mod will be reasonable and fair and consistent....with the aim of resolving any problem, misunderstanding or whatever is "wrong" fairly and for the good of all... Its like going in a pub, the landlord does not have a big long list of what you can and cant do on the wall, but the patrons know what is obviously over the line and the rest of it is done between landlord and patron as and when there is an "issue" with the overriding priority the good of all the patrons, staff and landlord...

For what it is worth I would say just post as you do and if and when there is a "problem" trust in the judgment of the landlord and his staff!

By the way I openly admit I have fallen foul a few times with the team here - I am used to a much more robust, rough and ready type of forum and have found adjusting to here a bit of a challenge - I have realised that things that I post elsewhere and are deemed perfectly acceptable are not here - and that is fine, I know the score....... Everywhere is different.

Offline m2

  • Administrator
  • Desert Rose
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,144
  • I love the smell of fresh forum killspam.
Re: Can the rules be more specific?
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2014, 03:13:12 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I'm afraid to post now. Feels like kindergarten , IMO. 

You're welcome to use another U2 fan forum, zootv. There are other options out there if you decide this isn't the type of community you want to help grow and be part of.

Ironically, one reason we've rewritten the rules is that a great many others have left the forum out of fear of posting, too. But not fear of violating any rule -- fear of being trampled and trashed by other users. That's no way to build a healthy community.

Offline singnomore

  • Administrator
  • Airborne Ranger
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,421
  • These city lights, they shine as silver and gold
Re: Can the rules be more specific?
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2014, 03:16:41 PM »

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
As someone who has had a few "run ins" with the mods over things I have posted I thought I would chime in....

For me the rules as they are written are pretty unimportant, before you shoot me let me explain..... - ok there are obvious things like porn, racism, abuse of people etc. that are clearly unacceptable and most decent people won't go there, and if they do well I think we all know what is going to happen and rightly so - but the "don't be a d**k" rule is actually a prety good way of doing things IMO..... You only need to worry about it and how it works if you get "your collar felt"..... When that happens I trust that any mod will be reasonable and fair and consistent....with the aim of resolving any problem, misunderstanding or whatever is "wrong" fairly and for the good of all... Its like going in a pub, the landlord does not have a big long list of what you can and cant do on the wall, but the patrons know what is obviously over the line and the rest of it is done between landlord and patron as and when there is an "issue" with the overriding priority the good of all the patrons, staff and landlord...

For what it is worth I would say just post as you do and if and when there is a "problem" trust in the judgment of the landlord and his staff!

By the way I openly admit I have fallen foul a few times with the team here - I am used to a much more robust, rough and ready type of forum and have found adjusting to here a bit of a challenge - I have realised that things that I post elsewhere and are deemed perfectly acceptable are not here - and that is fine, I know the score....... Everywhere is different.

I think that's a good approach.

The vast majority of posting on all threads is what we want to see. It's not about stopping people posting but it is about trying to weed out the covert 'trolls' for example who are obviously out to wind posters and forum mods etc up. So for example we expected different views on Ordinary Love but there did appear to be an attempt to beat into submission anyone who dared say they liked it. Fine have the debate but respect everyone's point of view. Don't move to cheap p**s taking as a way to reinforce a personal opinion for example is all we  are trying to manage here. It ruins debate and the last few months we could see and we were getting feedback that the forum was becoming toxic.


Offline m2

  • Administrator
  • Desert Rose
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,144
  • I love the smell of fresh forum killspam.
Re: Can the rules be more specific?
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2014, 03:17:39 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
i tend to think the nature of the way the rules are written make it harder or less likely for mod to be able to tell when its time to step in as well as giving them good basis to explain what the problem is (my main point i guess).

Trust me when I say that the discussions we've had over the past month will make it much easier for the mods to identify the kinds of behavior that don't fit with what we want this community to be.

That's not to say everything will be perfect; we're all human, after all. But we are all on the same page and have a clear vision of where things need to go.

Offline m2

  • Administrator
  • Desert Rose
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,144
  • I love the smell of fresh forum killspam.
Re: Can the rules be more specific?
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2014, 03:18:56 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
What will happen is there will be a steel hammer for a month or two where people will get a ticking off for saying "bottom".

So ride it out til March.

If that's your approach, I predict you're likely to be gone from the forum by April 1. There's nothing short-term about this. I promise.

Offline m2

  • Administrator
  • Desert Rose
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,144
  • I love the smell of fresh forum killspam.
Re: Can the rules be more specific?
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2014, 03:27:46 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Its like going in a pub, the landlord does not have a big long list of what you can and cant do on the wall, but the patrons know what is obviously over the line and the rest of it is done between landlord and patron as and when there is an "issue" with the overriding priority the good of all the patrons, staff and landlord...

For what it is worth I would say just post as you do and if and when there is a "problem" trust in the judgment of the landlord and his staff!

I'd say that's a pretty good analogy. And it would be impossible for us to write a comprehensive list of "Don't Dos" because we can't predict the future, can't predict what situations will arise, etc. So "don't be a d**k" is the general, overriding idea that we kept returning to while discussing the new rules.

In the rules and guidelines, we use the public park analogy -- but the idea is the same. Another analogy we talked about was the GA line at a U2 concert, and how fans typically converse and treat each other in that setting. It's very much a community of like-minded people that don't always agree with each other, but always disagree and interact in a fun, respectful way.