Author Topic: Have U2 become all about the money?  (Read 11869 times)

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Offline Innocent Smith

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Re: Have U2 become all about the money?
« Reply #60 on: June 22, 2015, 11:36:55 PM »
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No way have they been averaging 35,000 a night in arenas.

Not even close. There's no arena in North America that holds even close to 35,000. The average attendance so far is probably around 17,000

You think that little? The United Center can hold a little over 23,000 at capacity for basketball including standing room. When we take into account the GA and Red Zones, I think U2 will easily be playing before 26,000 each night in this upcoming week. Maybe even a little more.

But perhaps it is one of the larger buildings. 

Offline BalconyTV

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Re: Have U2 become all about the money?
« Reply #61 on: June 23, 2015, 12:08:31 AM »
Folks, I'm just going off what Billboard etc are saying the attendances were. Don't kill the messenger.

Offline BalconyTV

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Re: Have U2 become all about the money?
« Reply #62 on: June 23, 2015, 12:14:25 AM »
Everyone should remember that a few years ago, U2 did a 360 deal with LiveNation. I'm not even sure U2 get the earnings from the tours if memory serves me right. But who knows.

There are other vested interests.

And remember this... they don't even have to be touring. At their age... the question might be asked... how could you be bothered.

So love em or hate em... enjoy them while they are still around... which is briefly every 5 years.

Offline an tha

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Re: Have U2 become all about the money?
« Reply #63 on: June 23, 2015, 01:03:58 AM »
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Folks, I'm just going off what Billboard etc are saying the attendances were. Don't kill the messenger.

I think those attendances are for two nights.

Going off wiki they are circa 35,000 for their two night stays and circa 83,000 for the 5 night jobs.

Average crowd of this tour is circa 18,000

Offline wolf

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Re: Have U2 become all about the money?
« Reply #64 on: June 23, 2015, 09:02:08 AM »
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The NY, Chicago, etc. markets never had the price structure that was referenced in a previous post ($95, $60, or whatever). They were grossly overpriced from the beginning, face value. And I'm not referring to the after market here. As far as all the Pearl Jam references, there are so many inaccuracies with these posts I don't even know where to begin. Pearl Jam always and consistently charge the usual "going rate" for their shows. Not some ridiculous and abusive tiering system of $300 for "better seats" with the likes of Lady Gaga and Maddona!! And to think that ticket prices do not affect the people who go to shows is simply putting your head in the sand. Again, I cannot speak to the other markets as far as U2 is concerned where tickets are under $100. To also think that Pearl Jam would not sell out their shows, especially over seas is also silly. They have a tremendous following worldwide. So the supply and demand argument is dead when it comes to Pearl Jam. They set their price, and that is it!! They never ever take advantage of bigger markets to suck in more profits form their fans. The price is the price.  I won't even get into how Pearl Jam has kept it real for all these years and hands down, treat their fans top notch, through and through. Ticket prices, live bootleg downloads of all their shows, top notch fanclub with presale tickets, etc.  Having been an original fan club member of Propaganda magazine, no one knows better than I do how U2 completely disregarded us when they went with the internet fan club!! But that's a post for a whole other day!!

Both New York City and Chicago have the majority of their tickets priced at $95, $70, and $30 for Madison Square Garden, and $95, $65, and $30 for the United Center in Chicago. These are the list prices BEFORE service charges are added in. There are still ticket available at these price levels for the shows in Chicago!

You can go to ticketmaster and look at the maps to see all this for each show.

As for Pearl Jam they while they do not charge a tiered price level, they charge was would be the AVERAGE PRICE FOR A TICKET given their market value. So the best seat in the house pays $70 dollars same as the worst seat in the house. In doing that the best seat is under priced while the worst seat is over priced. In the end, those cancel each other out and the band is charging their fair market value overall, just like U2.

Pearl Jam has a much smaller fan base than U2. Pearl Jam did try charging below market value for tickets back in the early 1990s but gave up. They surrendered to ticketmaster and have been using ticketmaster and charging market value ever since then.

Justin Beiber and Taylor Swift have very young fans, but charge nearly the same amount on average as U2. So again, this is not about the age of fans, its simple supply and demand.

Offline wolf

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Re: Have U2 become all about the money?
« Reply #65 on: June 23, 2015, 09:08:59 AM »
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Mr. Red... you're probably right on various points regarding Pearl Jam. And to be clear, I am not knocking Pearl Jam... or anything like that. And with that, it is unquestionable that U2 could do things better...

HOWEVER

Pearl Jams 2014 Lightning Bolt tour had 20 dates and was attended by 264,000 people.

Thats 13,200 people on average per concert.

The tour grossed 18,700,000... (that puts the average ticket price at 70 bucks (not exactly a save the world price)

The average attendance of each U2 concert so far has been 35,000 per night (don't ask me how they do that, but thats whats been published). I presume with GA, and full arena seats.

So the fact is, the demand to see U2 is just much larger, anyway you look at it. U2 can afford to price tier. U2 can price 13,200 seats reasonably... and stagger upwards from there.

Other artists don't have that demand, and thus ticket prices have to be lower.

The fact is, many artists just don't sell out these days. I was at an Arcade Fire gig recently... lots of empty seats. Muse, half empty... etc etc. These are the bands of the day. They have to charge 60 bucks... because if they didn't... the venues would have even more empty seats.

If Pearl Jam could sell 35,000 tickets a night, I'm sure they would. But as they can't the tickets are priced appropriately.

I think you are a touch romantic about things. I don't believe Pearl Jam are on a charitable conquest as noble as they are.

As a side point, the average ticket price for U2360 was 100 bucks.

This was all a bit rambly... but I think some kinda point is coming out.

Actually the average for U2 so far is 17,270 per night on this tour. I think you may be mistaking 35,000, the combined capacity for two nights as the capacity for one show. Its not! None of the basketball arenas they play on this tour can fit more than 20,000 people for an event. Most max capacities, fire code law, are below that for a basketball arena.

Offline wolf

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Re: Have U2 become all about the money?
« Reply #66 on: June 23, 2015, 09:13:07 AM »
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Call me an over-simplifier, but I think that anyone who already has tens or hundreds of millions of dollars, and is still trying to make more, is greedy by definition (whether they're a rock singer or a CEO).

If U2 do not charge what they are worth, then scalpers will dive in and make the money. Someone is going to be making huge sums of money because the demand to see U2 is that high. Its either going to be U2, ticketmaster, or scalpers. Of those three, I'd prefer the money go to U2.

Offline wolf

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Re: Have U2 become all about the money?
« Reply #67 on: June 23, 2015, 09:17:06 AM »
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Let's say the average crowd for this tour is 18,000.

They could charge 50 for every ticket in the arena and gross 900,000 per show.

Add in merchandise and that figure grows to a million easily don't know if they are on a share of the bar take or not.. ... and surely that is enough money made even allowing for their costs.....

But a U2 ticket is worth more in the market than $50 dollars, more than double that in fact. If U2 do not charge what they are worth, then scalpers and ticketmaster will! Every business around the world, large or small charges market value for their product or services. Home owners always charge market value when they sell their house.

Offline an tha

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Re: Have U2 become all about the money?
« Reply #68 on: June 23, 2015, 11:28:13 AM »
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Let's say the average crowd for this tour is 18,000.

They could charge 50 for every ticket in the arena and gross 900,000 per show.

Add in merchandise and that figure grows to a million easily don't know if they are on a share of the bar take or not.. ... and surely that is enough money made even allowing for their costs.....

But a U2 ticket is worth more in the market than $50 dollars, more than double that in fact. If U2 do not charge what they are worth, then scalpers and ticketmaster will! Every business around the world, large or small charges market value for their product or services. Home owners always charge market value when they sell their house.

I disagree, two hours of music isn't worth any more than 50, important difference here is pounds not dollars....so whatever 50 pounds is in dollars is the figure I am talking about...

U2 can price their gigs as they please of course, but as very, very wealthy men with a loyal fan base who have given them the great life Bono likes to refer to I reckon 50 would be a fair and reasonable price point.

I certainly wouldn't pay more personally.

Offline Mr. Red

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Re: Have U2 become all about the money?
« Reply #69 on: June 23, 2015, 11:39:23 AM »
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The NY, Chicago, etc. markets never had the price structure that was referenced in a previous post ($95, $60, or whatever). They were grossly overpriced from the beginning, face value. And I'm not referring to the after market here. As far as all the Pearl Jam references, there are so many inaccuracies with these posts I don't even know where to begin. Pearl Jam always and consistently charge the usual "going rate" for their shows. Not some ridiculous and abusive tiering system of $300 for "better seats" with the likes of Lady Gaga and Maddona!! And to think that ticket prices do not affect the people who go to shows is simply putting your head in the sand. Again, I cannot speak to the other markets as far as U2 is concerned where tickets are under $100. To also think that Pearl Jam would not sell out their shows, especially over seas is also silly. They have a tremendous following worldwide. So the supply and demand argument is dead when it comes to Pearl Jam. They set their price, and that is it!! They never ever take advantage of bigger markets to suck in more profits form their fans. The price is the price.  I won't even get into how Pearl Jam has kept it real for all these years and hands down, treat their fans top notch, through and through. Ticket prices, live bootleg downloads of all their shows, top notch fanclub with presale tickets, etc.  Having been an original fan club member of Propaganda magazine, no one knows better than I do how U2 completely disregarded us when they went with the internet fan club!! But that's a post for a whole other day!!

Both New York City and Chicago have the majority of their tickets priced at $95, $70, and $30 for Madison Square Garden, and $95, $65, and $30 for the United Center in Chicago. These are the list prices BEFORE service charges are added in. There are still ticket available at these price levels for the shows in Chicago!

You can go to ticketmaster and look at the maps to see all this for each show.

As for Pearl Jam they while they do not charge a tiered price level, they charge was would be the AVERAGE PRICE FOR A TICKET given their market value. So the best seat in the house pays $70 dollars same as the worst seat in the house. In doing that the best seat is under priced while the worst seat is over priced. In the end, those cancel each other out and the band is charging their fair market value overall, just like U2.

Pearl Jam has a much smaller fan base than U2. Pearl Jam did try charging below market value for tickets back in the early 1990s but gave up. They surrendered to ticketmaster and have been using ticketmaster and charging market value ever since then.

Justin Beiber and Taylor Swift have very young fans, but charge nearly the same amount on average as U2. So again, this is not about the age of fans, its simple supply and demand.

This is not accurate. The majority of the MSG and Chicago tickets were/are north of $200. Even if you look now, the Chicago tickets for level 300 is $95 without fees!!!

Again, the Pearl jam references are also inaccurate. They didn't try to charge below market value for anything in the 90's. They attempted to bypass ticketmaster and their ridiculous service charge fees and also bypass the corporate sponsored shows in an attempt to take care of their fans and keep ticket prices reasonable. It was the Nobelist of efforts but they quickly found out that they couldn't fight the monopoly and had to cave on that issue. So, instead, they now charge same price for all tickets and we as fans are all better off for it.  If you recall, they also testified in congress about the issue which in and of itself says it all!
« Last Edit: June 23, 2015, 11:42:03 AM by Mr. Red »

Offline Blueyedboy

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Re: Have U2 become all about the money?
« Reply #70 on: June 23, 2015, 01:07:38 PM »
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Let's say the average crowd for this tour is 18,000.

They could charge 50 for every ticket in the arena and gross 900,000 per show.

Add in merchandise and that figure grows to a million easily don't know if they are on a share of the bar take or not.. ... and surely that is enough money made even allowing for their costs.....

But a U2 ticket is worth more in the market than $50 dollars, more than double that in fact. If U2 do not charge what they are worth, then scalpers and ticketmaster will! Every business around the world, large or small charges market value for their product or services. Home owners always charge market value when they sell their house.

So we're meant to be thankful that is U2 who are making an excessive profit at our expense rather than the scalpers? That's like asking the cops to rob our houses just to cut out the middle man!

Second point, it's the buyer who dictates the purchase price, not the seller. If the house didn't sell then it is priced wrong, the same goes for tickets.




LemonadeSupernova

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Re: Have U2 become all about the money?
« Reply #71 on: June 23, 2015, 01:27:51 PM »
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Call me an over-simplifier, but I think that anyone who already has tens or hundreds of millions of dollars, and is still trying to make more, is greedy by definition (whether they're a rock singer or a CEO).

If U2 do not charge what they are worth, then scalpers will dive in and make the money. Someone is going to be making huge sums of money because the demand to see U2 is that high. Its either going to be U2, ticketmaster, or scalpers. Of those three, I'd prefer the money go to U2.

Seems like an argument for taking much stronger action against scalpers and the secondary market in general - but I suspect that bands may have vested interests there.


LemonadeSupernova

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Re: Have U2 become all about the money?
« Reply #72 on: June 23, 2015, 01:42:56 PM »
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This is not accurate. The majority of the MSG and Chicago tickets were/are north of $200. Even if you look now, the Chicago tickets for level 300 is $95 without fees!!!

It always cracks me up when defenders of U2's ticket pricing cite the relatively small handful of cheap tickets in GA as evidence of than band caring about affordability, when in fact the large majority of ticket prices for each show are quite expensive.  I guess it's all part of the band's strategy and PR spin.


Offline wolf

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Re: Have U2 become all about the money?
« Reply #73 on: June 23, 2015, 03:29:03 PM »
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Let's say the average crowd for this tour is 18,000.

They could charge 50 for every ticket in the arena and gross 900,000 per show.

Add in merchandise and that figure grows to a million easily don't know if they are on a share of the bar take or not.. ... and surely that is enough money made even allowing for their costs.....

But a U2 ticket is worth more in the market than $50 dollars, more than double that in fact. If U2 do not charge what they are worth, then scalpers and ticketmaster will! Every business around the world, large or small charges market value for their product or services. Home owners always charge market value when they sell their house.

I disagree, two hours of music isn't worth any more than 50, important difference here is pounds not dollars....so whatever 50 pounds is in dollars is the figure I am talking about...

U2 can price their gigs as they please of course, but as very, very wealthy men with a loyal fan base who have given them the great life Bono likes to refer to I reckon 50 would be a fair and reasonable price point.

I certainly wouldn't pay more personally.

U2 could price tickets at 50 pounds like you say, but then ticketmaster would come in with a 50 pound service fee or scalpers would dive in and charge whatever the market rate is supposed to be. Either way, the fans will be paying the market price, and people other than U2 will be taking half of the money. IF the artist does not charge what they are worth, ticketmaster and scalpers will then earn the rest. The fans will still be paying market price.

Offline wolf

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Re: Have U2 become all about the money?
« Reply #74 on: June 23, 2015, 03:37:54 PM »
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The NY, Chicago, etc. markets never had the price structure that was referenced in a previous post ($95, $60, or whatever). They were grossly overpriced from the beginning, face value. And I'm not referring to the after market here. As far as all the Pearl Jam references, there are so many inaccuracies with these posts I don't even know where to begin. Pearl Jam always and consistently charge the usual "going rate" for their shows. Not some ridiculous and abusive tiering system of $300 for "better seats" with the likes of Lady Gaga and Maddona!! And to think that ticket prices do not affect the people who go to shows is simply putting your head in the sand. Again, I cannot speak to the other markets as far as U2 is concerned where tickets are under $100. To also think that Pearl Jam would not sell out their shows, especially over seas is also silly. They have a tremendous following worldwide. So the supply and demand argument is dead when it comes to Pearl Jam. They set their price, and that is it!! They never ever take advantage of bigger markets to suck in more profits form their fans. The price is the price.  I won't even get into how Pearl Jam has kept it real for all these years and hands down, treat their fans top notch, through and through. Ticket prices, live bootleg downloads of all their shows, top notch fanclub with presale tickets, etc.  Having been an original fan club member of Propaganda magazine, no one knows better than I do how U2 completely disregarded us when they went with the internet fan club!! But that's a post for a whole other day!!

Both New York City and Chicago have the majority of their tickets priced at $95, $70, and $30 for Madison Square Garden, and $95, $65, and $30 for the United Center in Chicago. These are the list prices BEFORE service charges are added in. There are still ticket available at these price levels for the shows in Chicago!

You can go to ticketmaster and look at the maps to see all this for each show.

As for Pearl Jam they while they do not charge a tiered price level, they charge was would be the AVERAGE PRICE FOR A TICKET given their market value. So the best seat in the house pays $70 dollars same as the worst seat in the house. In doing that the best seat is under priced while the worst seat is over priced. In the end, those cancel each other out and the band is charging their fair market value overall, just like U2.

Pearl Jam has a much smaller fan base than U2. Pearl Jam did try charging below market value for tickets back in the early 1990s but gave up. They surrendered to ticketmaster and have been using ticketmaster and charging market value ever since then.

Justin Beiber and Taylor Swift have very young fans, but charge nearly the same amount on average as U2. So again, this is not about the age of fans, its simple supply and demand.

This is not accurate. The majority of the MSG and Chicago tickets were/are north of $200. Even if you look now, the Chicago tickets for level 300 is $95 without fees!!!

Again, the Pearl jam references are also inaccurate. They didn't try to charge below market value for anything in the 90's. They attempted to bypass ticketmaster and their ridiculous service charge fees and also bypass the corporate sponsored shows in an attempt to take care of their fans and keep ticket prices reasonable. It was the Nobelist of efforts but they quickly found out that they couldn't fight the monopoly and had to cave on that issue. So, instead, they now charge same price for all tickets and we as fans are all better off for it.  If you recall, they also testified in congress about the issue which in and of itself says it all!

Well, at least you now acknowledge that there are tickets at the $95, $65, and $30 dollar price. Before you said that there were no such tickets in Chicago and New York. Based on the past concert grosses so far released for the tour, the AVERAGE TICKET PRICE is $116.21. That alone proves that the majority of tickets are priced the lower tiered prices. If most were priced at $275 or above, the average ticket price would be a lot higher than $116.21. $116.21 is only $15 dollars more than the average ticket price on the last tour.

Pearl Jam were charging below market value for their tickets in the early 90s which is why Ticketmaster increased the service charge fees. Ticketmaster even stated that if the artist is not willing to make what they are worth, then we will make what they are worth!

In the end, Pearl Jam failed in its goals and has joined all other artist that charge market value for their tickets. The single ticket price for all seats is what almost all artist used to do prior to 1994. 1994 is the year when Tiered pricing for tickets made its big debut and succeeded.