Author Topic: Rumor by waffles: U2 in Los Angeles for SOE  (Read 17447 times)

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Offline boom boom

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Re: Rumor by waffles: U2 in Los Angeles for SOE
« Reply #90 on: February 21, 2016, 03:12:26 PM »
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this has certainly evolved to an interesting thread with lots of different perspectives.

the one common idea running through, stated or not, seems to be this next album will be a reckoning of sorts.  If it lands creatively (meaning it truly is either a departure or an extension of their more experimental sounds) then I think the show goes on.  If we get more Songs For Someone then it feels like a lot of us won't be hanging around much longer.

2016 will be a very interesting year I think.
Yeah, it is going to be very interesting.  I wonder what is going through their heads right now, knowing their last two albums failed to connect with the general public.  They went the esoteric route with NLOTH (mainly because they second guessed themselves and went back and tried to get radio friendly tracks on it) and didn't work, they went with what they thought were strong melodies for radio with SOI, it didn't work even after delay after delay and producer after producer.  Hopefully they go all out this time, trust their initial instincts for the albums sound and go with it, don't overthink it, and bring in additional producers to get their take, next thing you know they reworked all the songs and it gets overproduced just like SOI.

Offline Kite32

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Re: Rumor by waffles: U2 in Los Angeles for SOE
« Reply #91 on: February 21, 2016, 03:30:01 PM »
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this has certainly evolved to an interesting thread with lots of different perspectives.

the one common idea running through, stated or not, seems to be this next album will be a reckoning of sorts.  If it lands creatively (meaning it truly is either a departure or an extension of their more experimental sounds) then I think the show goes on.  If we get more Songs For Someone then it feels like a lot of us won't be hanging around much longer.

2016 will be a very interesting year I think.
Yeah, it is going to be very interesting.  I wonder what is going through their heads right now, knowing their last two albums failed to connect with the general public.  They went the esoteric route with NLOTH (mainly because they second guessed themselves and went back and tried to get radio friendly tracks on it) and didn't work, they went with what they thought were strong melodies for radio with SOI, it didn't work even after delay after delay and producer after producer.  Hopefully they go all out this time, trust their initial instincts for the albums sound and go with it, don't overthink it, and bring in additional producers to get their take, next thing you know they reworked all the songs and it gets overproduced just like SOI.

I hope you're right but I think you're wrong. SOE if indeed it's even called that will be the same old same old for U2. NLOTH could have been a real contender for a great U2 album if they had ditched 80% of it. They have no balls anymore. It's just the way it is. I'm sure we'll continue to see flashes of what they used to be capable of ie SLABT but I anticipate a big single with yet another big riff along the same old boring lines of BD, Elevation, vertigo, and the miracle and a load of filler that while meaning well just ends up sounding boring

Offline boom boom

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Re: Rumor by waffles: U2 in Los Angeles for SOE
« Reply #92 on: February 21, 2016, 03:52:01 PM »
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this has certainly evolved to an interesting thread with lots of different perspectives.

the one common idea running through, stated or not, seems to be this next album will be a reckoning of sorts.  If it lands creatively (meaning it truly is either a departure or an extension of their more experimental sounds) then I think the show goes on.  If we get more Songs For Someone then it feels like a lot of us won't be hanging around much longer.

2016 will be a very interesting year I think.
Yeah, it is going to be very interesting.  I wonder what is going through their heads right now, knowing their last two albums failed to connect with the general public.  They went the esoteric route with NLOTH (mainly because they second guessed themselves and went back and tried to get radio friendly tracks on it) and didn't work, they went with what they thought were strong melodies for radio with SOI, it didn't work even after delay after delay and producer after producer.  Hopefully they go all out this time, trust their initial instincts for the albums sound and go with it, don't overthink it, and bring in additional producers to get their take, next thing you know they reworked all the songs and it gets overproduced just like SOI.

I hope you're right but I think you're wrong. SOE if indeed it's even called that will be the same old same old for U2. NLOTH could have been a real contender for a great U2 album if they had ditched 80% of it. They have no balls anymore. It's just the way it is. I'm sure we'll continue to see flashes of what they used to be capable of ie SLABT but I anticipate a big single with yet another big riff along the same old boring lines of BD, Elevation, vertigo, and the miracle and a load of filler that while meaning well just ends up sounding boring
Well, we hope they would have learned from their last two albums and their week lead off singles GOYB and while I think the  Miracle is better than boots and is a better live song it should not  have been the lead off single.  I also agree SLABT and also i think TIWYCRMN are two of the best songs on the album (unfortunately they didn't even try to play them live). Hopefully we get a full album like that.  I also think originally SOI (the version we didn't get to hear with only Dangermouse producing) could have really been exciting, unfortunately the band didn't think so and brought in Tedder and Epworth.  Maybe one day in the future they will release the alternate version of SOI.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2016, 03:59:35 PM by boom boom »

Offline trevgreg

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Re: Rumor by waffles: U2 in Los Angeles for SOE
« Reply #93 on: February 21, 2016, 06:04:35 PM »
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I hope you're right but I think you're wrong. SOE if indeed it's even called that will be the same old same old for U2. NLOTH could have been a real contender for a great U2 album if they had ditched 80% of it. They have no balls anymore. It's just the way it is. I'm sure we'll continue to see flashes of what they used to be capable of ie SLABT but I anticipate a big single with yet another big riff along the same old boring lines of BD, Elevation, vertigo, and the miracle and a load of filler that while meaning well just ends up sounding boring

I never quite bought into the idea that they have to reinvent the wheel every time to create great songs. Regarding SLABT, I like the sound and song a lot myself, but it's not necessarily a 'be all, end all' for me to have everything sound exactly like that (not saying that's what you're getting at, but yeah).

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Well, we hope they would have learned from their last two albums and their week lead off singles GOYB and while I think the  Miracle is better than boots and is a better live song it should not  have been the lead off single.  I also agree SLABT and also i think TIWYCRMN are two of the best songs on the album (unfortunately they didn't even try to play them live). Hopefully we get a full album like that.  I also think originally SOI (the version we didn't get to hear with only Dangermouse producing) could have really been exciting, unfortunately the band didn't think so and brought in Tedder and Epworth.  Maybe one day in the future they will release the alternate version of SOI.

I mentioned it on Interference the other day, but I don't really know what they could have used as a first single beyond The Miracle. It was a superior song to Boots, had at least something in the vein of hooks to grab Joe Listener's attention, and also made use of the famous I–V–vi–IV chords that the band and many other acts has used numerous times in the past (among four total songs off of SOI, actually)... if that was bound to fail, well, it wasn't for making a bad decision, imo.

In terms of the 'alternate' version of SOI/NLOTH/etc., there's really no way to tell if those would have been superior or not without hearing them, obviously. If the interviews since SOI was released and the alternate versions of The Troubles and SLABT hinted at anything, it might be that some of the band's decisions to keep working on the album ended up being solid ones for the songs. Bono had mentioned in early 2014 that they were experimenting with different keys on certain songs, and if that applied to The Troubles (which I suspect it did), then it was a pretty good decision that made the song better. When Tedder was announced as working with the band, I also was one of those that was a tad skeptical (but open-minded) on what he could bring to the table. But if it's true that he moved the original middle 8 of EBW to the chorus and was responsible for the main melody line over that (with Edge plays, I believe), then again... that was probably a good decision too.

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Re: Rumor by waffles: U2 in Los Angeles for SOE
« Reply #94 on: February 22, 2016, 12:51:01 AM »
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I hope you're right but I think you're wrong. SOE if indeed it's even called that will be the same old same old for U2. NLOTH could have been a real contender for a great U2 album if they had ditched 80% of it. They have no balls anymore. It's just the way it is. I'm sure we'll continue to see flashes of what they used to be capable of ie SLABT but I anticipate a big single with yet another big riff along the same old boring lines of BD, Elevation, vertigo, and the miracle and a load of filler that while meaning well just ends up sounding boring

I never quite bought into the idea that they have to reinvent the wheel every time to create great songs. Regarding SLABT, I like the sound and song a lot myself, but it's not necessarily a 'be all, end all' for me to have everything sound exactly like that (not saying that's what you're getting at, but yeah).

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Well, we hope they would have learned from their last two albums and their week lead off singles GOYB and while I think the  Miracle is better than boots and is a better live song it should not  have been the lead off single.  I also agree SLABT and also i think TIWYCRMN are two of the best songs on the album (unfortunately they didn't even try to play them live). Hopefully we get a full album like that.  I also think originally SOI (the version we didn't get to hear with only Dangermouse producing) could have really been exciting, unfortunately the band didn't think so and brought in Tedder and Epworth.  Maybe one day in the future they will release the alternate version of SOI.

I mentioned it on Interference the other day, but I don't really know what they could have used as a first single beyond The Miracle. It was a superior song to Boots, had at least something in the vein of hooks to grab Joe Listener's attention, and also made use of the famous I–V–vi–IV chords that the band and many other acts has used numerous times in the past (among four total songs off of SOI, actually)... if that was bound to fail, well, it wasn't for making a bad decision, imo.

In terms of the 'alternate' version of SOI/NLOTH/etc., there's really no way to tell if those would have been superior or not without hearing them, obviously. If the interviews since SOI was released and the alternate versions of The Troubles and SLABT hinted at anything, it might be that some of the band's decisions to keep working on the album ended up being solid ones for the songs. Bono had mentioned in early 2014 that they were experimenting with different keys on certain songs, and if that applied to The Troubles (which I suspect it did), then it was a pretty good decision that made the song better. When Tedder was announced as working with the band, I also was one of those that was a tad skeptical (but open-minded) on what he could bring to the table. But if it's true that he moved the original middle 8 of EBW to the chorus and was responsible for the main melody line over that (with Edge plays, I believe), then again... that was probably a good decision too.

Im finding rock and roll has been at a low point for the last several years with all the new electronic music. I still think EBW album version or California would have been better singles because they appeal to the masses more and are have electronic elements. Miracle limited them to the small percentage who still listen to rock. I was watching the grammys and VMAS and noticed rock and roll isnt even honored like it used to be. Im sure itll come back though

Offline boom boom

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Re: Rumor by waffles: U2 in Los Angeles for SOE
« Reply #95 on: February 22, 2016, 03:40:31 AM »
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I hope you're right but I think you're wrong. SOE if indeed it's even called that will be the same old same old for U2. NLOTH could have been a real contender for a great U2 album if they had ditched 80% of it. They have no balls anymore. It's just the way it is. I'm sure we'll continue to see flashes of what they used to be capable of ie SLABT but I anticipate a big single with yet another big riff along the same old boring lines of BD, Elevation, vertigo, and the miracle and a load of filler that while meaning well just ends up sounding boring

I never quite bought into the idea that they have to reinvent the wheel every time to create great songs. Regarding SLABT, I like the sound and song a lot myself, but it's not necessarily a 'be all, end all' for me to have everything sound exactly like that (not saying that's what you're getting at, but yeah).

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Well, we hope they would have learned from their last two albums and their week lead off singles GOYB and while I think the  Miracle is better than boots and is a better live song it should not  have been the lead off single.  I also agree SLABT and also i think TIWYCRMN are two of the best songs on the album (unfortunately they didn't even try to play them live). Hopefully we get a full album like that.  I also think originally SOI (the version we didn't get to hear with only Dangermouse producing) could have really been exciting, unfortunately the band didn't think so and brought in Tedder and Epworth.  Maybe one day in the future they will release the alternate version of SOI.

I mentioned it on Interference the other day, but I don't really know what they could have used as a first single beyond The Miracle. It was a superior song to Boots, had at least something in the vein of hooks to grab Joe Listener's attention, and also made use of the famous I–V–vi–IV chords that the band and many other acts has used numerous times in the past (among four total songs off of SOI, actually)... if that was bound to fail, well, it wasn't for making a bad decision, imo.

In terms of the 'alternate' version of SOI/NLOTH/etc., there's really no way to tell if those would have been superior or not without hearing them, obviously. If the interviews since SOI was released and the alternate versions of The Troubles and SLABT hinted at anything, it might be that some of the band's decisions to keep working on the album ended up being solid ones for the songs. Bono had mentioned in early 2014 that they were experimenting with different keys on certain songs, and if that applied to The Troubles (which I suspect it did), then it was a pretty good decision that made the song better. When Tedder was announced as working with the band, I also was one of those that was a tad skeptical (but open-minded) on what he could bring to the table. But if it's true that he moved the original middle 8 of EBW to the chorus and was responsible for the main melody line over that (with Edge plays, I believe), then again... that was probably a good decision too.
But I remember back sometime in 2014 (and I could be wrong on this) when the band were in new york recording with Dangermouse that reports were coming out the they were finished at least a rough version of the album and were having a kind of celebratory BBQ on the rooftop.  Reports were the band were very happy and excited for the album with Dangermouse.  Then Dangermouse had to take a break for a bit for other work and when he came back to finish up work with the band reports were that he even didn't even recognize most of the work as we all know the band brought in Tedder and Epworth during the time Dangermouse was off and even some of the songs he did were dropped and new ones added.  I'm just saying, initially the band were excited for the original work they did with Dangermouse, maybe in hindsight they should have left it alone as it could have been better but again without hearing it we will never know.

Offline Mr. Red

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Re: Rumor by waffles: U2 in Los Angeles for SOE
« Reply #96 on: February 22, 2016, 11:51:10 AM »
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I hope you're right but I think you're wrong. SOE if indeed it's even called that will be the same old same old for U2. NLOTH could have been a real contender for a great U2 album if they had ditched 80% of it. They have no balls anymore. It's just the way it is. I'm sure we'll continue to see flashes of what they used to be capable of ie SLABT but I anticipate a big single with yet another big riff along the same old boring lines of BD, Elevation, vertigo, and the miracle and a load of filler that while meaning well just ends up sounding boring

I never quite bought into the idea that they have to reinvent the wheel every time to create great songs. Regarding SLABT, I like the sound and song a lot myself, but it's not necessarily a 'be all, end all' for me to have everything sound exactly like that (not saying that's what you're getting at, but yeah).

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Well, we hope they would have learned from their last two albums and their week lead off singles GOYB and while I think the  Miracle is better than boots and is a better live song it should not  have been the lead off single.  I also agree SLABT and also i think TIWYCRMN are two of the best songs on the album (unfortunately they didn't even try to play them live). Hopefully we get a full album like that.  I also think originally SOI (the version we didn't get to hear with only Dangermouse producing) could have really been exciting, unfortunately the band didn't think so and brought in Tedder and Epworth.  Maybe one day in the future they will release the alternate version of SOI.

I mentioned it on Interference the other day, but I don't really know what they could have used as a first single beyond The Miracle. It was a superior song to Boots, had at least something in the vein of hooks to grab Joe Listener's attention, and also made use of the famous I–V–vi–IV chords that the band and many other acts has used numerous times in the past (among four total songs off of SOI, actually)... if that was bound to fail, well, it wasn't for making a bad decision, imo.

In terms of the 'alternate' version of SOI/NLOTH/etc., there's really no way to tell if those would have been superior or not without hearing them, obviously. If the interviews since SOI was released and the alternate versions of The Troubles and SLABT hinted at anything, it might be that some of the band's decisions to keep working on the album ended up being solid ones for the songs. Bono had mentioned in early 2014 that they were experimenting with different keys on certain songs, and if that applied to The Troubles (which I suspect it did), then it was a pretty good decision that made the song better. When Tedder was announced as working with the band, I also was one of those that was a tad skeptical (but open-minded) on what he could bring to the table. But if it's true that he moved the original middle 8 of EBW to the chorus and was responsible for the main melody line over that (with Edge plays, I believe), then again... that was probably a good decision too.
But I remember back sometime in 2014 (and I could be wrong on this) when the band were in new york recording with Dangermouse that reports were coming out the they were finished at least a rough version of the album and were having a kind of celebratory BBQ on the rooftop.  Reports were the band were very happy and excited for the album with Dangermouse.  Then Dangermouse had to take a break for a bit for other work and when he came back to finish up work with the band reports were that he even didn't even recognize most of the work as we all know the band brought in Tedder and Epworth during the time Dangermouse was off and even some of the songs he did were dropped and new ones added.  I'm just saying, initially the band were excited for the original work they did with Dangermouse, maybe in hindsight they should have left it alone as it could have been better but again without hearing it we will never know.

Yes, from everything that I have read and have come to understand, that's how it went down. I believe it was a case of over thinking things again. And, as has been discussed plenty of times on this forum, they decided to go overboard with appealing to the masses and being "relevant" so they added the pop sugar veneer/sheen. I had also read that Burton was extremely disappointed and upset with this. However, as is his nature, he never commented on it and would never speak disparagingly about the band. He did however answer a question that was posed to him regarding the status of the new U2 record before it came out and he rather curtly responding "I have no idea what U2 is doing with the new record" (I'm paraphrasing here). A very telling statement from a well respected producer who was initially supposed to be the sole producer. I remember immediately recognizing the three tunes he produced on his own on the record without even looking at the liner notes and saying to myself "man, what this record could have been!!" 
« Last Edit: February 22, 2016, 11:53:18 AM by Mr. Red »

Offline trevgreg

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Re: Rumor by waffles: U2 in Los Angeles for SOE
« Reply #97 on: February 22, 2016, 11:59:59 AM »
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Im finding rock and roll has been at a low point for the last several years with all the new electronic music. I still think EBW album version or California would have been better singles because they appeal to the masses more and are have electronic elements. Miracle limited them to the small percentage who still listen to rock. I was watching the grammys and VMAS and noticed rock and roll isnt even honored like it used to be. Im sure itll come back though

I guess it depends on what you mean by ‘electronic’ influences. If anything, I’d say the era of ‘popular’ genres might be broken up for good, considering what the internet and different sources for songs have done these days. Mainstream rock doesn’t seem to have the stranglehold it once did, but there’s plenty of rock bands which still tend to get some sort of attention these days. Maybe not in the vein of an Adele or Swift, but acts come and go as it does anyway.

Coming back to the single choices and the I–V–vi–IV chords… for what it’s worth, four songs on SOI use them to a decent extent in one order or another: The Miracle, EBW, California, and Volcano. If they wanted to have a hit, it probably did make sense to use any of those four. I’d still say that The Miracle probably had the more accessible hooks compared to the other two upbeat ones, so that would’ve been m first choice anyway (I think California would’ve been a solid single, but maybe not in the first slot).  The only real flaws it had, if any, were a slightly goofy title and maybe a chorus line that doesn’t soar as high as it could (it’s decent… just not a truly memorable one as compared to some of the other band’s big singles) EBW, I’d say, still probably made the most sense as the second one anyway.

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But I remember back sometime in 2014 (and I could be wrong on this) when the band were in new york recording with Dangermouse that reports were coming out the they were finished at least a rough version of the album and were having a kind of celebratory BBQ on the rooftop.  Reports were the band were very happy and excited for the album with Dangermouse.  Then Dangermouse had to take a break for a bit for other work and when he came back to finish up work with the band reports were that he even didn't even recognize most of the work as we all know the band brought in Tedder and Epworth during the time Dangermouse was off and even some of the songs he did were dropped and new ones added.  I'm just saying, initially the band were excited for the original work they did with Dangermouse, maybe in hindsight they should have left it alone as it could have been better but again without hearing it we will never know.

Yeah, I think that was late in the summer of 2013 when it looked like they were wrapping things up, only to go to the drawing board. From the interviews, it seemed like they had an album that was basically complete, but didn’t feel like it had all the potential. And yeah, it’ll be hard to know for sure in any sort of consensus without hearing those tracks… but from some of the changes they did talk about since then (which I mentioned in that other post), it seems like some of them did work out.

Offline SlyDanner

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Re: Rumor by waffles: U2 in Los Angeles for SOE
« Reply #98 on: February 22, 2016, 12:11:43 PM »
And don't discount the impact that the Apple release (may have) had on the album release.  I have no idea what actually happened, but I would not be surprised if the band decided to delay the album so it would be timed with the iPhone.  And instead of leaving well enough alone, then tinkered with many of the songs right up to the point of release.

Stupid rock band.

Offline an tha

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Re: Rumor by waffles: U2 in Los Angeles for SOE
« Reply #99 on: February 22, 2016, 12:34:14 PM »
The good news is Bono has recognised the album was over polished/too nice....so maybe it is a case of lesson learnt.

Question is can they break a behavioural trait that has become deeply ingrained now....

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Re: Rumor by waffles: U2 in Los Angeles for SOE
« Reply #100 on: February 22, 2016, 01:33:01 PM »
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Age and health takes its toll.  The Stones are down to playing about 15 shows a year now.

If you really care about the boxscore, add it all up at the end of the Experience part of the tour.  U2 will show these young whippersnappers they have to be quick to beat U2 to a buck.

In a straight fight for a pound note i would back u2 against a prime Mike Tyson, Muhammad Ali, Marvin Hagler and The Incredible Hulk.

Bono would beat the seagulls to the tip if he thought he'd dropped a five pound note in the bin.

Offline boom boom

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Re: Rumor by waffles: U2 in Los Angeles for SOE
« Reply #101 on: February 23, 2016, 03:50:58 AM »
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The good news is Bono has recognised the album was over polished/too nice....so maybe it is a case of lesson learnt.

Question is can they break a behavioural trait that has become deeply ingrained now....
I'm leaning towards no.  They said the exact same thing of NLOTH and they still went the polished over produced way on SOI.  Like you said, it is a behavioural  trait that gone soo deep there is no way back.  I think even Brian Eno said during the NLOTH sessions the band wouldn't recognize a great song if it is staring them right in the face.  He said this after they finished recording MOS and then they band said something like let's go work on it some more.  Then Eno said, what it's done it's already perfect. 

Offline Mr. Red

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Re: Rumor by waffles: U2 in Los Angeles for SOE
« Reply #102 on: February 23, 2016, 06:42:20 AM »
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The good news is Bono has recognised the album was over polished/too nice....so maybe it is a case of lesson learnt.

Question is can they break a behavioural trait that has become deeply ingrained now....
I'm leaning towards no.  They said the exact same thing of NLOTH and they still went the polished over produced way on SOI.  Like you said, it is a behavioural  trait that gone soo deep there is no way back.  I think even Brian Eno said during the NLOTH sessions the band wouldn't recognize a great song if it is staring them right in the face.  He said this after they finished recording MOS and then they band said something like let's go work on it some more.  Then Eno said, what it's done it's already perfect.

And in my opinion, MOS is one of their greatest tunes!

Offline SlyDanner

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Re: Rumor by waffles: U2 in Los Angeles for SOE
« Reply #103 on: February 23, 2016, 08:10:17 AM »
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The good news is Bono has recognised the album was over polished/too nice....so maybe it is a case of lesson learnt.

Question is can they break a behavioural trait that has become deeply ingrained now....
I'm leaning towards no.  They said the exact same thing of NLOTH and they still went the polished over produced way on SOI.  Like you said, it is a behavioural  trait that gone soo deep there is no way back.  I think even Brian Eno said during the NLOTH sessions the band wouldn't recognize a great song if it is staring them right in the face.  He said this after they finished recording MOS and then they band said something like let's go work on it some more.  Then Eno said, what it's done it's already perfect.

And in my opinion, MOS is one of their greatest tunes!

What's funny is that I recall an interview where Bono said that Eno doesn't care about individual songs, all he cares about are albums.  He used (I think) Viva la Vida as an example... said that if Eno were producing he would have left that track off the album.  Point being it's a great track.  I may be misremembering.

But there's no doubt these guys overthink, overwork, overproduce most of everything now

Offline goldtoad

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Re: Rumor by waffles: U2 in Los Angeles for SOE
« Reply #104 on: February 23, 2016, 01:44:20 PM »
I completely agree with the opinions here that U2 have done way too much tinkering with the last two albums... They need to stop bringing in various producers to re-work songs and dragging out the process to the point where the original inspiration they had for the album is lost.  On the last album, they angered many fans by delaying the original release date for months.  We found out later this was because they made the iPhone 6 release deal with Apple. That move that ended up generating mostly negative press. It may not be fair, but U2 has lost some respect with the general public in the last few years.  U2 has been one of the greatest rock bands in the world for over 30 years, but they are now in their twilight years and their attitude should be “go big or go home”.  By "go big" I mean having a big idea for an album (like they’ve had on many previous albums) and then following thru on that creative vision in the studio working with one or two primary producers.  If they don’t have the time or the inspiration anymore, maybe it is time to think about retirement.  No matter what, it is time to stop turning over the creative process to a string of producers and then being disappointed because the album did turn out as planned and sounds “over-produced”.