Author Topic: Bob Lefsetz on the Jt Tour  (Read 8646 times)

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Offline Izzy

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Re: Bob Lefsetz on the Jt Tour
« Reply #30 on: January 10, 2017, 11:06:06 AM »
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Offline bass slap

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Re: Bob Lefsetz on the Jt Tour
« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2017, 11:49:09 AM »
Good article. This latest announcement to me is just an significant moment in their careers as the release of JT. A truly new u2 era, one that was always inevitable.

Offline bass slap

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Re: Bob Lefsetz on the Jt Tour
« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2017, 11:55:14 AM »
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Lefsetz does his usual here exaggerates a little to provoke a discussion but he pretty much hits the nail on the head re *the fear*. This is a band that's become paralysed by the fear of failure and appears completely unable to take the next creative leap as a result.

And they've been doing this for over a decade now:
* Abandoned the sessions with Rick Rubin around 2006.
* Second-guessed the thematic unity of NLOTH and stuck a number of 'radio-friendly' tracks on the album.
* Talked about a quick follow-up (SOA) and then abandoned that idea too.
* Re-did Winter and then never released it.
* Test-drove songs like North Star on the 360 Tour and never released most of them either (thankfully, in some cases).
* Released Ordinary Love, then tried again with a new mix by Paul Epworth which simply muddied the waters as to what the official release actually was.
* Released Invisible, then second-guessed themselves and abandoned album release plans (I'm inferring here) when it wasn't as successful as they'd hoped.
* Drove Danger Mouse away and brought in poptastic producers when they feared the absence of pop hits for SOI.
* Second-guessed themselves again straight after SOI was released by talking about SOE and (according to Bono) the over-polished sound of SOI.
* And, now, this Joshua Tree tour and talk of re-visiting SOE again.

Something has gone badly wrong with their creative confidence, and I think we might have to accept that it ain't coming back.

Great summary. Some hard truths in there for the fan boys in denial... still.. as long as I get to see them live again..

olimar

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Re: Bob Lefsetz on the Jt Tour
« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2017, 12:09:52 PM »
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Lefsetz does his usual here exaggerates a little to provoke a discussion but he pretty much hits the nail on the head re *the fear*. This is a band that's become paralysed by the fear of failure and appears completely unable to take the next creative leap as a result.

And they've been doing this for over a decade now:
* Abandoned the sessions with Rick Rubin around 2006.
* Second-guessed the thematic unity of NLOTH and stuck a number of 'radio-friendly' tracks on the album.
* Talked about a quick follow-up (SOA) and then abandoned that idea too.
* Re-did Winter and then never released it.
* Test-drove songs like North Star on the 360 Tour and never released most of them either (thankfully, in some cases).
* Released Ordinary Love, then tried again with a new mix by Paul Epworth which simply muddied the waters as to what the official release actually was.
* Released Invisible, then second-guessed themselves and abandoned album release plans (I'm inferring here) when it wasn't as successful as they'd hoped.
* Drove Danger Mouse away and brought in poptastic producers when they feared the absence of pop hits for SOI.
* Second-guessed themselves again straight after SOI was released by talking about SOE and (according to Bono) the over-polished sound of SOI.
* And, now, this Joshua Tree tour and talk of re-visiting SOE again.

Something has gone badly wrong with their creative confidence, and I think we might have to accept that it ain't coming back.

Great summary. Some hard truths in there for the fan boys in denial... still.. as long as I get to see them live again..

Whilst they arent entirely related, I was wondering about two other events that impact on the creative confidence-

- Spiderman the Musical, where Bono and Edge discovered that the creativity that wrote soundtrack pieces in the productive 90s (Batman, Goldeneye, Passengers) didnt give them the same results, even when they dedicated themselves to it and nothing else (granted, the stage show itself was a large factor in the bad reviews)
- Ordinary Love, where the band thought they had discovered a new avenue to get mainstream success, by way of an Oscar, put their recording on hold in order to secure it, only to find they were beaten by Disney. I think they really felt like they were going to get it, performed at the ceremony and everywhere else, but ended up being the guys getting photo-bombed on the red carpet as "runners up".

Spacejunk69

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Re: Bob Lefsetz on the Jt Tour
« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2017, 12:35:43 PM »
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Lefsetz does his usual here exaggerates a little to provoke a discussion but he pretty much hits the nail on the head re *the fear*. This is a band that's become paralysed by the fear of failure and appears completely unable to take the next creative leap as a result.

And they've been doing this for over a decade now:
* Abandoned the sessions with Rick Rubin around 2006.
* Second-guessed the thematic unity of NLOTH and stuck a number of 'radio-friendly' tracks on the album.
* Talked about a quick follow-up (SOA) and then abandoned that idea too.
* Re-did Winter and then never released it.
* Test-drove songs like North Star on the 360 Tour and never released most of them either (thankfully, in some cases).
* Released Ordinary Love, then tried again with a new mix by Paul Epworth which simply muddied the waters as to what the official release actually was.
* Released Invisible, then second-guessed themselves and abandoned album release plans (I'm inferring here) when it wasn't as successful as they'd hoped.
* Drove Danger Mouse away and brought in poptastic producers when they feared the absence of pop hits for SOI.
* Second-guessed themselves again straight after SOI was released by talking about SOE and (according to Bono) the over-polished sound of SOI.
* And, now, this Joshua Tree tour and talk of re-visiting SOE again.

Something has gone badly wrong with their creative confidence, and I think we might have to accept that it ain't coming back.
.

Great post. And a great article. All too true.

Offline Giga Razor

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Re: Bob Lefsetz on the Jt Tour
« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2017, 12:43:21 PM »
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Lefsetz does his usual here exaggerates a little to provoke a discussion but he pretty much hits the nail on the head re *the fear*. This is a band that's become paralysed by the fear of failure and appears completely unable to take the next creative leap as a result.

And they've been doing this for over a decade now:
* Abandoned the sessions with Rick Rubin around 2006.
* Second-guessed the thematic unity of NLOTH and stuck a number of 'radio-friendly' tracks on the album.
* Talked about a quick follow-up (SOA) and then abandoned that idea too.
* Re-did Winter and then never released it.
* Test-drove songs like North Star on the 360 Tour and never released most of them either (thankfully, in some cases).
* Released Ordinary Love, then tried again with a new mix by Paul Epworth which simply muddied the waters as to what the official release actually was.
* Released Invisible, then second-guessed themselves and abandoned album release plans (I'm inferring here) when it wasn't as successful as they'd hoped.
* Drove Danger Mouse away and brought in poptastic producers when they feared the absence of pop hits for SOI.
* Second-guessed themselves again straight after SOI was released by talking about SOE and (according to Bono) the over-polished sound of SOI.
* And, now, this Joshua Tree tour and talk of re-visiting SOE again.

Something has gone badly wrong with their creative confidence, and I think we might have to accept that it ain't coming back.
A lot of assumptions and untruths spouted here ,maybe Rick Rubin wasn't for them a lot of bands ditch producers half way through an album just ask Axl Rose ,Ordinary love did what it was supposed to even won a Golden globe and it was part of a soundtrack for a film as was winter which also features in the film Linear.They also expressed a willingness to record stand alone  singles that weren't necessarily part of any album,the whole tie in with Apple delayed SOI .Bono's bike accident and probably his back surgery  scuppered any quick follow up to SOI and maybe he was advised to take his foot off the gas to prolong his future with the band.SOE will probably still come out this year it's only January and the tour is only 3 month's long ,whose to say they won't have it finished before hand or even slightly afterwards they could still put it out October/November .What band or solo singer going 40 year's has chart hits? I can't think of any Rolling stones,Aerosmith,Def Leppard,Depeche mode ,ACDC,Simple Mind's all struggle to get their new music heard ,Metallica took 8 years to put out a new album ,Paul McCartney probably the most famous musician in history hasn't had a hit single in 30 odd years he needed kanye and Ri Ri to to get anyone to notice he still makes music .

Offline eddyjedi

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Re: Bob Lefsetz on the Jt Tour
« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2017, 01:00:09 PM »
This whole topic makes me sad.

I love this band and will fight their cause with whoever tells me they are sh** and talentless.

However, I do fear this tour as much as I admire it as an idea, is a real nail in the coffin of the band and it's creativity. They could have done this in 2007 for the 20 year anniversary
This would have made more sense!

It's a bizarre announcement and I know this band is tiring and idling these days and I accept it but they need to produce new work which they can be proud of. This revisit is not what they are about and it's a mind boggling one for sure. Why have they done this ultimately? I don't buy the political ideal, it runs much deeper than that. But are the band in unity on this decision? It's remarkable really.

I want U2 albums as much as the next person but only great ones will do. And it's almost clear to me with this news that we may never see great new music again.

« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 01:02:04 PM by eddyjedi »

Offline AaronB47

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Re: Bob Lefsetz on the Jt Tour
« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2017, 01:05:48 PM »
To me they have been lost since Paul McGuinness retired and Madonna's manager took over.  I wonder if Paul would have gone along with this 30th Anniversary JT tour?

olimar

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Re: Bob Lefsetz on the Jt Tour
« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2017, 01:21:36 PM »
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This whole topic makes me sad.

I love this band and will fight their cause with whoever tells me they are sh** and talentless.

However, I do fear this tour as much as I admire it as an idea, is a real nail in the coffin of the band and it's creativity. They could have done this in 2007 for the 20 year anniversary
This would have made more sense!

It's a bizarre announcement and I know this band is tiring and idling these days and I accept it but they need to produce new work which they can be proud of. This revisit is not what they are about and it's a mind boggling one for sure. Why have they done this ultimately? I don't buy the political ideal, it runs much deeper than that. But are the band in unity on this decision? It's remarkable really.

I want U2 albums as much as the next person but only great ones will do. And it's almost clear to me with this news that we may never see great new music again.



Agree with all of that.
And the comment on Band unity is something that crossed my mind earlier too. It wouldnt surprise me in the slightest if one of them is sick of spending time in the studio, constantly recording and re-recording, shuffling from one Producer to the next and is at the stage in life where it just seems easier to do a tour, spread it out, play the stuff they are comfortable with, make a load of money. And do a stadium tour, because you do less dates.

Offline Giga Razor

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Re: Bob Lefsetz on the Jt Tour
« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2017, 01:29:07 PM »
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This whole topic makes me sad.

I love this band and will fight their cause with whoever tells me they are sh** and talentless.

However, I do fear this tour as much as I admire it as an idea, is a real nail in the coffin of the band and it's creativity. They could have done this in 2007 for the 20 year anniversary
This would have made more sense!

It's a bizarre announcement and I know this band is tiring and idling these days and I accept it but they need to produce new work which they can be proud of. This revisit is not what they are about and it's a mind boggling one for sure. Why have they done this ultimately? I don't buy the political ideal, it runs much deeper than that. But are the band in unity on this decision? It's remarkable really.

I want U2 albums as much as the next person but only great ones will do. And it's almost clear to me with this news that we may never see great new music again.
It's a 3 month tour for God's sake, the album will be out this year so less of the negativity.

Offline Thunder Peel

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Re: Bob Lefsetz on the Jt Tour
« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2017, 01:31:40 PM »
For the most part that article is excellent. I adore U2 and have for over 15 years, yet I cannot deny that my excitement for this tour is also marred with an equal amount of trepidation for the future of the band and their creative output. If SOE had already come out and been toured then this wouldn't sting nearly as much; it would simply be a fun interlude for both fans and the band. Instead we have them delaying an album that's already been delayed far too long, using the excuse that the political winds have shifted and therefore they must rethink their strategy.

An earlier thread posed this question: Do you think the new album will be postponed if Trump is elected? It seemed a preposterous and silly idea at the time. I commented that if that were true then U2 is creatively bankrupt and in deep trouble. While I doubt that Trump and Brexit are solely to blame (I place the cause at the band's feet and constant hand-wringing) it's indeed a worrying commentary. They simply seem incapable of grasping modern marketing and the music landscape as a whole. The release of SOI may have rubbed many people the wrong way but at least it was something different and the group surprised us with something fresh. Now I have no idea what's going on.

I'm looking forward to the Joshua Tree Tour and will probably try to make it to a show, but it'll be bittersweet. That album is my favorite of all time by any artist but I would always rather have new stuff first. Until some trusted associates sit down with the band members and articulate how we all feel then this will continue. Even worse, I'm not sure it would make much difference.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 01:35:03 PM by Thunder Peel »

Offline John Galt

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Re: Bob Lefsetz on the Jt Tour
« Reply #41 on: January 10, 2017, 01:33:25 PM »
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Offline eddyjedi

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Re: Bob Lefsetz on the Jt Tour
« Reply #42 on: January 10, 2017, 01:35:00 PM »
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This whole topic makes me sad.

I love this band and will fight their cause with whoever tells me they are sh** and talentless.

However, I do fear this tour as much as I admire it as an idea, is a real nail in the coffin of the band and it's creativity. They could have done this in 2007 for the 20 year anniversary
This would have made more sense!

It's a bizarre announcement and I know this band is tiring and idling these days and I accept it but they need to produce new work which they can be proud of. This revisit is not what they are about and it's a mind boggling one for sure. Why have they done this ultimately? I don't buy the political ideal, it runs much deeper than that. But are the band in unity on this decision? It's remarkable really.

I want U2 albums as much as the next person but only great ones will do. And it's almost clear to me with this news that we may never see great new music again.
It's a 3 month tour for God's sake, the album will be out this year so less of the negativity.

I'm not being negative, I'm being realistic.

olimar

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Re: Bob Lefsetz on the Jt Tour
« Reply #43 on: January 10, 2017, 01:51:32 PM »
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Quote
A lot of assumptions and untruths spouted here ,maybe Rick Rubin wasn't for them a lot of bands ditch producers half way through an album just ask Axl Rose ,Ordinary love did what it was supposed to even won a Golden globe and it was part of a soundtrack for a film as was winter which also features in the film Linear.They also expressed a willingness to record stand alone  singles that weren't necessarily part of any album,the whole tie in with Apple delayed SOI .Bono's bike accident and probably his back surgery  scuppered any quick follow up to SOI and maybe he was advised to take his foot off the gas to prolong his future with the band.SOE will probably still come out this year it's only January and the tour is only 3 month's long ,whose to say they won't have it finished before hand or even slightly afterwards they could still put it out October/November .What band or solo singer going 40 year's has chart hits? I can't think of any Rolling stones,Aerosmith,Def Leppard,Depeche mode ,ACDC,Simple Mind's all struggle to get their new music heard ,Metallica took 8 years to put out a new album ,Paul McCartney probably the most famous musician in history hasn't had a hit single in 30 odd years he needed kanye and Ri Ri to to get anyone to notice he still makes music .

That last line about bands struggling to get their new music heard is exactly the point though. U2 have always strived to fight that, they have made a point of it, that they believe they can make relevant music in their later years.
In 2005, they were charting City of Blinding Lights, Sometimes you cant make it, Vertigo, all whilst being a band in their mid-40s. That in itself is pretty unprecedented these days, bands are usually creatively finished by their mid to late 30s. So that aspiration of theirs appeared credible- they were prepared to continue to record new material and it was paying off.

However, their faith in their continued ability to write relevant music seems to have flagged badly. To the point we are now at.
Problem is, you dont have to have hit singles to be relevant. In fact, its arguable that tail off is down to the way people consume music these days i.e. not through buying singles in the way they once were. Which is a method they also tried to deal with.

Offline Giga Razor

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Re: Bob Lefsetz on the Jt Tour
« Reply #44 on: January 10, 2017, 01:52:18 PM »
So a 3 month tour celebrating a classic album is a nail in the coffin is it?Every band does it so why not U2 ,they have earned the right more than most band's and the fact that's its such a short tour means they have more pressing matters to deal with  like releasing a new album which I predict will be out before the end of the year.