Author Topic: Any Atheist U2 Fans here?  (Read 14262 times)

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WookieeWarrior10

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Re: Any Atheist U2 Fans here?
« Reply #120 on: April 07, 2017, 07:35:05 PM »
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To be an atheist U2 fan is in no way a contradiction of sorts. After all, U2 are no Bible bashing Christian rock band and offer a much more complex account of religiosity and faith often highlighting the doubts of one's own spiritual quest.

Bono's faith is exploited in the music as metaphors that offer clarity to his own personal troubles. This is one of the main reasons why I love U2 as they often highlight the tensions between religion, spirituality and the harsh realities of the world.

I'm not religious in anyway, so it's fascinating to hear the doubts and insecurities of a religious individual. It helps you gain an understanding and sense of empathy towards those of faith which, in a society where religion is almost becoming a taboo, provides a more complex view on religion as opposed to the increasingly reductivist and inane belief amongst many that suggests anyone of faith is a lunatic.
Great post. This same argument rings true for republicans and U2's music. Remember during the presidential election when liberals/democrats were questioning the fandom of conservatives/republicans for their political beliefs? This thread is kind of the same thing (although that's not to say this topic is taking arguments as far as those topics did, if that makes sense).

I'm not going to take that point any further, for obvious reasons...

Offline ElectricalVoice

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Re: Any Atheist U2 Fans here?
« Reply #121 on: April 19, 2017, 12:19:54 AM »
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Because you believe that everything just magically fell into place and that you were made out of randomness.

I can't speak for other atheist's, but I certainly do not believe anything like that at all. :)

Offline soloyan

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Re: Any Atheist U2 Fans here?
« Reply #122 on: April 19, 2017, 01:10:29 PM »
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Because you believe that everything just magically fell into place and that you were made out of randomness.

I can't speak for other atheist's, but I certainly do not believe anything like that at all. :)

Buzz, billions of years of evolution isn't exactly "magically falling into place". Building the world in 7 days is.

Offline ian ryan

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Re: Any Atheist U2 Fans here?
« Reply #123 on: April 19, 2017, 02:42:10 PM »
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Because you believe that everything just magically fell into place and that you were made out of randomness.

I can't speak for other atheist's, but I certainly do not believe anything like that at all. :)

Yep, I find comments like this frustrating in these sorts of discussions. The idea that something like earth could have occurred after billions of years in an infinite space is not magical at all. It's statistical.

It's also frustrating when we get told to explore evidence for religion, as though that hasn't occurred to us yet.

Offline Blueyedboy

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Re: Any Atheist U2 Fans here?
« Reply #124 on: April 19, 2017, 03:17:30 PM »
I’ve been having a bit of a tussle with my “faith” over the past number of years, (not that I have ever been a devout Christian or regular church goer).
I would class myself as a curious agnostic, at this stage of my life I do need proof that a God exists, although I wouldn’t want to live in a world where religious people do not practice the good side of their faith. 

Apart from the proof that I require, I find it pretty contradictive that a religion denies other Gods to strengthen its own plausibility. Even worse when this breeds extremism that is responsible for so much destruction and fear in the world over hundreds of years. Wouldn’t an all-powerful, all-good deity intervene?   

The most infuriating thing about religion is that it is taboo to question its existence. And to do so give you a label that is seen as derogatory by believers.  For too long now, most churches have been advertised as a place of worship for those who already have the faith and not one where purpose and guidance can be added to your existence if only you would step inside and listen to the engaging individual in the pulpit interpret the scriptures into modern day terminology and maybe add a few anecdotes where a person has been guided and their life been enriched.  But nah, too much like hard work! 

To wrap this brain dump up, I don’t have to believe in immaculate conceptions, man walking on water or people parting seas through verbal commands to know how to treat my fellow humans.  Choosing to live a good life doesn’t necessarily mean that you have chosen religion. 
« Last Edit: April 19, 2017, 03:19:01 PM by Blueyedboy »

Offline pdk

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Re: Any Atheist U2 Fans here?
« Reply #125 on: April 19, 2017, 05:12:57 PM »
Why do "atheists" get a label?

It's not like they are weird for not believing in something there is no proof of. 

Someone once said: that which can be stated without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Soon they will be labeling partakers of common sense.  Very soon.

Offline ElectricalVoice

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Re: Any Atheist U2 Fans here?
« Reply #126 on: April 20, 2017, 06:06:34 AM »
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Why do "atheists" get a label?

Maybe because there are so many religious people in the world, and it is difficult for many of them to see that it is default?

Offline jenniferh aka jen

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Re: Any Atheist U2 Fans here?
« Reply #127 on: April 20, 2017, 08:08:12 AM »
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I'm sorry I guess I struck an "evolutionary" nerve. And you know that those can be frustrating for billions and billions of years,  Actually whenever science uses terms like "billions and billions of years" you know that they are really saying, "we don't know but it must be a really long time" right?  Doesn't sound very scientific to me. But here is a fun fact that is statistical. Did you know that scientists have found cartilage in the fossils that they are digging up?  Fossils that have been buried for "billions and billions of years".  Well I hate to say it but soft tissue (i.e. cartilage) can't last that long, even buried.  But you can believe what those scientists are saying if you choose, I will take the 7 day side. To my agnostic friend I say "religion" sucks.  And many bad things have been done in the name of "religion".  There are also churches out there that are simply dogmatic rule shoving places.  But in my experience, I have found a church that nurtures having a real relationship with Christ. That helps me to have that relationship everyday and to try to be a better person to everyone in my life.  I hope that you find a place where that is the core being taught.  As for denouncing other religions, I do not do that in my walk, but I do believe that the Bible is the oldest document we have for living a full life, and when I have yielded myself to God's Word my life seems to run a lot more smoothly than if I don't. And like many people there was a time when I thought it was all about me, but I have since found that it never was.  Again, I am sorry if I am frustrating anyone but this is simply what I believe. At least we can all agree that U2 touches something in us so that we can come together and have these kinds of discussions and that is cool too.

But there is scientific proof that the earth is over 4 billions years old. Plus I think the cartilage you are referring to is the fossilized cartridge that has been found. I prefer having facts and evidence and religion or deities can't provide that for me.

I also think that people who touch on religious beliefs, like Bono, need to feel the comfort of that for their own sake. But Bono conveys it in a way, most of the time, as being a transparent comfort across beliefs. What I call the universe could be what he thinks god is.


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Hawkmoon2e

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Re: Any Atheist U2 Fans here?
« Reply #128 on: April 20, 2017, 12:51:03 PM »
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I also think that people who touch on religious beliefs, like Bono, need to feel the comfort of that for their own sake. But Bono conveys it in a way, most of the time, as being a transparent comfort across beliefs. What I call the universe could be what he thinks god is.

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If this is how you feel, then it's how you feel. I would never argue with someone's feelings, because well, that would be stupid and arrogant of me to do so. But I think Bono has been very clear about who (not what) he thinks God and Jesus are:
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Offline Johnny Feathers

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Re: Any Atheist U2 Fans here?
« Reply #129 on: April 20, 2017, 12:57:36 PM »
There's really a debate on this thread on the merits of evolutionary theory?  Hasn't even the church come around on this point?

ETA: Apparently not quite, but the pope has made statements that evolution and the big bang don't necessarily refute Biblical teachings or the existence of God.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 01:05:20 PM by Johnny Feathers »

Offline fez333

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Re: Any Atheist U2 Fans here?
« Reply #130 on: April 20, 2017, 01:33:55 PM »
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Going back to the debate about why God would "allow" bad things to happen:

Not to get into this debate, but that point of view, to me, only enables us to think that if bad things happen, then those bad things are justified by the sins of the people they happen to.  It's a way to believe the world is fundamentally just and fair.  "Bad things happen to bad people," or at least because of them.  It's karma.

Whereas I believe that bad things happen to good people.  I don't really believe in karma--there are far too many awful people who have lives far too blessed--and I think the universe is ultimately unknowable and beyond any concepts we have of fairness or justice.  I know that doesn't exactly provide inspiration or anything, but there you go.

I don't think it is a belief that bad things happen to good people. Bad things happen to everyone. Good things happen to everyone. No one is immune from suffering, and no one gets through life without some difficulty. I can't speak to other faiths, but I don't understand how any Christian can subscribe to the 'bad things happen to bad people, and if something bad happens to you, you must have deserved it' point-of-view. I don't understand that at all.

Ultimately, you are 100 percent correct, IMO, in saying that some things are just beyond our grasp. That's the reason believers are called 'people of faith' rather than 'people of certainty'. In my humble opinion, science is also a kind of faith, because for every one thing we learn and understand, there are a million more we don't, and science is always changing. When they do it. it is called 'learning' but when people of faith do it, it is called 'revisionism' or 'moving the goalposts'.

I think the world would be a better place if everyone would just admit that on matters of religion and science, we are doing the best we can to learn about the world around us, but none of us is really certain of anything. The problem is, there's an ocean of knowledge, and we only have little paper cups to contain it.
I agree that we have a lot to learn about religion and science.   

We need to learn to accept others that are different and realize God is not more important than you and I. 

Offline jenniferh aka jen

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Re: Any Atheist U2 Fans here?
« Reply #131 on: April 20, 2017, 01:45:08 PM »
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I also think that people who touch on religious beliefs, like Bono, need to feel the comfort of that for their own sake. But Bono conveys it in a way, most of the time, as being a transparent comfort across beliefs. What I call the universe could be what he thinks god is.

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If this is how you feel, then it's how you feel. I would never argue with someone's feelings, because well, that would be stupid and arrogant of me to do so. But I think Bono has been very clear about who (not what) he thinks God and Jesus are:
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That's fine, but it doesn't change my thinking of that I feel the universe is in charge and he interprets that as a god. He also said she prays to the risen Jesus.

I think people who are Christian do not distinguish between the deity - god - and the man - Jesus. I look at them as two separate "entities" and not the same. If that gives him the comfort, so be it.


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Offline Blueyedboy

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Re: Any Atheist U2 Fans here?
« Reply #132 on: April 20, 2017, 02:38:39 PM »
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I'm sorry I guess I struck an "evolutionary" nerve. And you know that those can be frustrating for billions and billions of years,  Actually whenever science uses terms like "billions and billions of years" you know that they are really saying, "we don't know but it must be a really long time" right?  Doesn't sound very scientific to me. But here is a fun fact that is statistical. Did you know that scientists have found cartilage in the fossils that they are digging up?  Fossils that have been buried for "billions and billions of years".  Well I hate to say it but soft tissue (i.e. cartilage) can't last that long, even buried.  But you can believe what those scientists are saying if you choose, I will take the 7 day side. To my agnostic friend I say "religion" sucks.  And many bad things have been done in the name of "religion".  There are also churches out there that are simply dogmatic rule shoving places.  But in my experience, I have found a church that nurtures having a real relationship with Christ. That helps me to have that relationship everyday and to try to be a better person to everyone in my life.  I hope that you find a place where that is the core being taught.  As for denouncing other religions, I do not do that in my walk, but I do believe that the Bible is the oldest document we have for living a full life, and when I have yielded myself to God's Word my life seems to run a lot more smoothly than if I don't. And like many people there was a time when I thought it was all about me, but I have since found that it never was.  Again, I am sorry if I am frustrating anyone but this is simply what I believe. At least we can all agree that U2 touches something in us so that we can come together and have these kinds of discussions and that is cool too.

I wouldn't say your frustrating anyone, although it is a little confusing why you feel you should use a scientific argument that has no citation to try and disprove evolution (I think that's what you attempting to do, apologies if I am wrong) when you are more than capable of articulating excellently what your faith means to you and how it has given you guidance. 




Offline ian ryan

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Re: Any Atheist U2 Fans here?
« Reply #133 on: April 20, 2017, 03:15:28 PM »
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I'm sorry I guess I struck an "evolutionary" nerve. And you know that those can be frustrating for billions and billions of years,  Actually whenever science uses terms like "billions and billions of years" you know that they are really saying, "we don't know but it must be a really long time" right?  Doesn't sound very scientific to me. But here is a fun fact that is statistical. Did you know that scientists have found cartilage in the fossils that they are digging up?  Fossils that have been buried for "billions and billions of years".

Fossils are mineral formations that accumulate where a bone or similar organic structure was. Of course cartilage won't survive billions of years, but a fossil of an organic structure can survive for millions of years. Science is built on the fact that we don't know everything, but that we are searching to learn more about situations and concepts that can be reliably reproduced. Saying "I don't know" is about as scientific a statement as you can make, because that's where the research starts.

Beyond that, making snide comments like you've struck an evolutionary nerve and that human existence without a god is just magical doesn't make me too interested in engaging with you on the topic in any serious way.

Offline TheEnd

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Re: Any Atheist U2 Fans here?
« Reply #134 on: April 20, 2017, 03:50:03 PM »
I'm atheist but I wasn't when I first started listening to U2 in the early 90s.