Author Topic: Bono meets Pope Francis  (Read 1846 times)

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Offline shineinthesummernight

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Bono meets Pope Francis
« on: September 19, 2018, 03:12:21 PM »
   I think it's great he's finally met Pope Francis--two great spiritual leaders.  This pope has great humility and personal warmth.  My hope is that he will help lead the church into a  brighter future. 



Offline laoghaire

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Re: Bono meets Pope Francis
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2018, 03:59:54 PM »
I have given up on Pope Francis. He seems wonderful, but there's something wrong. He has consistently played the party line on the church abuses, to a shocking degree. I hope Bono made the Pope rethink. Also, the future of the church literally depends on it.

Offline shineinthesummernight

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Re: Bono meets Pope Francis
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2018, 05:09:01 PM »
You're right that something drastic needs to be done.  I hope it will happen. 

Offline Luzita

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Re: Bono meets Pope Francis
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2018, 06:21:36 PM »
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I have given up on Pope Francis. He seems wonderful, but there's something wrong. He has consistently played the party line on the church abuses, to a shocking degree. I hope Bono made the Pope rethink. Also, the future of the church literally depends on it.
I feel the same way. Not that I consider myself a Catholic exactly, I consider myself sort of generic Christian, but I come from a Catholic background so I feel attached. And distressed that the corruption in the hierarchy is so so bad.


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Offline shineinthesummernight

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Re: Bono meets Pope Francis
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2018, 06:24:45 PM »
And yet, doesn't it make sense that the powers of darkness would strike hardest at the Church?  Is this a reason to give up on it?

Offline laoghaire

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Re: Bono meets Pope Francis
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2018, 07:16:24 PM »
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And yet, doesn't it make sense that the powers of darkness would strike hardest at the Church?  Is this a reason to give up on it?

My reply might be a little weird but:

1) Like Luzita, I'm not Catholic (just a non-believing agnostic), but have some background there. I think if Catholicism is any part of you, even 0.5%, you can never really shed it.

2) If people abandon the church, then its enemy has won. I agree with you.

3) But, if we continue to accept this, the enemy has won. The only thing that is moving the needle at all is people leaving the church in disgust. Not that we have gotten where we need to go, by far, but I do think that finally this is loud enough and won't go away.

If there are people in the church who are not the instigators of violence against people (preying on children sexually or corporally, or on unwed mothers and their babies) yet try to hush it up and not stand up resolutely to it - and I hope the Pope is at least in this category rather than a perpetrator - I can only think they are being hung up by the idea that it will break the church to admit its authority was imperfect in any way. It's baked into the doctrine. If they do what they must do, they feel that will crumble the church.

They don't understand that it's their hubris that has already crumbled the church - not admitting to it, but the hubris itself. The church is made up of people, and the people are not divine. Only God. Telling us that the people of the church are not to be questioned is what led directly to this evil.

So they will sink the whole ship if they cling stubbornly to that.

Pope Francis seems like a lovely guy but he really doesn't get that Jesus would not have worried about the rules of a damn church over God's law. With all that Jesus said and did, could Pope Francis really believe for one second that he would have backed the church over an abused child?

And Jesus said Peter would be his rock - but didn't say, "I shall set you and the men who succeed you above all others, and I will create a line of cardinals and bishops and priests who no man shall question, and their word shall be as good as mine."

We humans messed that up and we've got to fix it, and fix it RIGHT, not half-assed.

Offline shineinthesummernight

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Re: Bono meets Pope Francis
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2018, 02:32:22 PM »
     I think that the ethnic, old-school Catholics of the "greatest generation" were most likely to grant unquestioning loyalty to priests.  It's very hard for anyone who grew up in the 60's or later to grant unquestioning authority to anything, considering that Church, government, workplaces, marriages etc. have all let us down in myriad ways.  There may have been a residual effect of blind loyalty even amongst baby boomers raised in a hard-core tradition.  I don't know because that wasn't my background.  I do know that my whole family questions everything down to the smallest point of behavior.  Consequently, every single one of them has left the Church.  Their choice, of course, but I'm just not convinced that free thinking people doing a mass exodus is the best way to meet either their own spiritual needs or the Church's.  If all the free thinkers leave then is what remains worthy of the name catholic?  How will the Church change and grow if critical thinkers all leave?

Offline 73October

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Re: Bono meets Pope Francis
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2018, 02:35:08 PM »
Good for Bono to challenge the Pope from Outside the Catholic church (in that he doesn't worship at Mass on regular Sundays).

Offline dwaltman

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Re: Bono meets Pope Francis
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2018, 12:10:27 PM »
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I have given up on Pope Francis. He seems wonderful, but there's something wrong. He has consistently played the party line on the church abuses, to a shocking degree. I hope Bono made the Pope rethink. Also, the future of the church literally depends on it.

Maybe Bono played "Sleep Like a Baby Tonight" for the Pope.

Offline laoghaire

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Re: Bono meets Pope Francis
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2018, 12:38:42 PM »
Yup, I was gratified that U2 called out the church abuses head-on.

Bono actually strikes me as one of the world's most potent advocates to bend the Pope's ear on this. I feel he has a good grasp of the issues and is not limited by the dogma of the Catholic (or any other) church. He is both outside the church and very much in it, with considerable cred as a Christian and able to talk the talk, analyze and quote scripture, and understand the spiritual language and context the Pope speaks in.

He has experience standing up for issues even in the face of criticsm (including death threats), so he won't wimp out.

Yet as a person seeking to close divides rather than open them, he will find common ground and a place to build that relationship and trust rather than just marching in there and giving him an earful. More can be done that way. He got a lot of crap for befriending the likes of Bush and Blair, but there was objectively a lot of good that came out of it without everyone having to agree on everything.

Anyway, I hope this meeting was another push in the right direction.

Offline shineinthesummernight

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Re: Bono meets Pope Francis
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2018, 05:21:59 PM »
I don't think the pope, at least recently, has defended the abusers.  He just hasn't done anything major I guess to convince people that change is on the horizon.

Offline laoghaire

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Re: Bono meets Pope Francis
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2018, 06:16:49 PM »
I believe it was this very year he said some majorly-missing-the-point crap on a trip somewhere in South America, possibly it was his home of Argentina but I don't remember.

His emphasis seems to be consistently on "the victims need to forgive and move on."

I'll spare you all my rant. At least this time.

Offline ShankAsu

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Re: Bono meets Pope Francis
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2018, 06:32:26 PM »
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   I think it's great he's finally met Pope Francis--two great spiritual leaders.  This pope has great humility and personal warmth.  My hope is that he will help lead the church into a  brighter future.
Bono is NOT a spiritual leader.  Even for being a Christian, he sure does like to make fun of them a lot.

Offline Tortuga

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Re: Bono meets Pope Francis
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2018, 11:37:33 PM »
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   I think it's great he's finally met Pope Francis--two great spiritual leaders.  This pope has great humility and personal warmth.  My hope is that he will help lead the church into a  brighter future.
Bono is NOT a spiritual leader.  Even for being a Christian, he sure does like to make fun of them a lot.

Being a Christian does not mean you don’t criticize yourself or your brothers when you or they are wrong.  Quite the opposite.  And making fun is a good way to stay humble, one of the key traits of authentic Christianity.


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Offline shineinthesummernight

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Re: Bono meets Pope Francis
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2018, 05:03:28 AM »
Bono is definitely a spiritual leader to me.  Enough said.