Author Topic: Do you think Songs Of Innocence is underrated?  (Read 2484 times)

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u2music

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Re: Do you think Songs Of Innocence is underrated?
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2018, 10:01:40 AM »
The only masterpiece is SLABT.  The rest can go in the dustbin, imo.

Offline Tortuga

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Re: Do you think Songs Of Innocence is underrated?
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2018, 10:12:11 AM »
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The only masterpiece is SLABT.  The rest can go in the dustbin, imo.

Troubles is good and Crystal Ballroom.

Also EBW is U2 by the numbers but at least it is a very good example of that.  Nothing wrong with having one of “those” on an album every now and then.


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u2music

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Re: Do you think Songs Of Innocence is underrated?
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2018, 10:29:02 AM »
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The only masterpiece is SLABT.  The rest can go in the dustbin, imo.

Troubles is good and Crystal Ballroom.

Also EBW is U2 by the numbers but at least it is a very good example of that.  Nothing wrong with having one of “those” on an album every now and then.


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Haven't paid much attention to Troubles, need to check it out.  Crystal Ballroom is to me a dance track.  Not too fond of it.  I do like the EBW performances that I've watched on YouTube.  And I even think SFS is an alright track.

So, not all in the dustbin. I was a bit tad harsh there.

u2music

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Re: Do you think Songs Of Innocence is underrated?
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2018, 07:17:44 AM »
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The only masterpiece is SLABT.  The rest can go in the dustbin, imo.

Troubles is good and Crystal Ballroom.

Also EBW is U2 by the numbers but at least it is a very good example of that.  Nothing wrong with having one of “those” on an album every now and then.


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Troubles about mortality or lost love again?  Or is it in some weird way addressing the Irish Troubles from the 60's/70's?  I can't see that and couldn't quite pick up what it's about.  The tunes ok, Lykke Li adds some weight to it. But, I don't see anything outstanding about the track.  A little bit of Edge guitar peeking through, now and then.  It's ok I guess but really doesn't do much for me.  Just my fragile silly opinion though.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 07:20:52 AM by u2music »

Offline laoghaire

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Re: Do you think Songs Of Innocence is underrated?
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2018, 09:02:16 AM »
It's a song where someone stands up to his or her abuser.

The abuser could be an abusive parent. An abusive spouse. A sex abuser. An enslaver. An oppressor. A "friend," relative, or coworker who belittles people to pieces.  A gaslighter. Someone who drives sectarianism or partisanism or apartheid. Any abuser, operating from a personal, mass, or systemic platform.

The song has the words for someone to stand up to this on a personal and spiritual level.

Somebody stepped inside your soul
Somebody stepped inside your soul
Little by little they robbed and stole
Till somebody else was in control

Who is "you" in this refrain? I'd argue it's both the singer and the abuser.

The abuser first: the devil or force of evil has stepped inside the abuser's soul and taken control, to abuse.

The wild eyes of someone in a rage, especially someone you should be able to trust, feels like somebody else is driving them.

Little by little the abuser steps inside the singer's soul next. Little by little, wearing them down, tearing them to pieces, until the singer doesn't even feel like a person anymore, just a husk for the abuser to drive.

The singer calls out the abuser:

You think it's easier to put your finger on the trouble when the trouble is you

Abusers will always tell you it's your fault.

You think it's easier to know your own tricks, well it's the hardest thing you'll ever do

Abusers won't ever admit, even to themselves, what they are doing.

I have a will for survival, so you can hurt me and then hurt me some more
I can live with denial but you're not my troubles anymore

The singer might not be able to stop the abuse, but he or she can name the abuser as the source (rather than themselves). Oh, easier said than done for damn sure, but this song can be a lifeline.

I won't continue the line-by-line breakdown, but the bridge is incredible:

God knows it's not easy taking on the shape of someone else's pain

Indeed, abusers place their pain on others, that's what they are doing. And, Jesus, is it hard.

God now you can see me - I'm naked and I'm not afraid, my body's sacred and I'm not ashamed

So much in this line. Reference to Genesis. Reference to the ravages of abuse. But empowerment in standing up and refusing the message of abuse - that you are not adequate, that you are not really even a person, that you should be ashamed. Empowerment with God - He sees you, all of you, and He loves you. You are sacred and when you return to Him, He will make you whole again.

Offline laoghaire

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Re: Do you think Songs Of Innocence is underrated?
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2018, 09:14:06 AM »
I haven't been on in a while. I saw this topic and typed up a reply about The Troubles because I thought I had something to add, and that maybe this could even bring comfort to people as the song has done for me. Just checked my PM box and I've been asked not to engage anymore. I considered deleting my post above but I will let it stand. My original hope that it brings comfort also stands. I've enjoyed my time here with you all.

Offline Tortuga

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Re: Do you think Songs Of Innocence is underrated?
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2018, 09:21:04 AM »
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It's a song where someone stands up to his or her abuser.

The abuser could be an abusive parent. An abusive spouse. A sex abuser. An enslaver. An oppressor. A "friend," relative, or coworker who belittles people to pieces.  A gaslighter. Someone who drives sectarianism or partisanism or apartheid. Any abuser, operating from a personal, mass, or systemic platform.

The song has the words for someone to stand up to this on a personal and spiritual level.

Somebody stepped inside your soul
Somebody stepped inside your soul
Little by little they robbed and stole
Till somebody else was in control

Who is "you" in this refrain? I'd argue it's both the singer and the abuser.

The abuser first: the devil or force of evil has stepped inside the abuser's soul and taken control, to abuse.

The wild eyes of someone in a rage, especially someone you should be able to trust, feels like somebody else is driving them.

Little by little the abuser steps inside the singer's soul next. Little by little, wearing them down, tearing them to pieces, until the singer doesn't even feel like a person anymore, just a husk for the abuser to drive.

The singer calls out the abuser:

You think it's easier to put your finger on the trouble when the trouble is you

Abusers will always tell you it's your fault.

You think it's easier to know your own tricks, well it's the hardest thing you'll ever do

Abusers won't ever admit, even to themselves, what they are doing.

I have a will for survival, so you can hurt me and then hurt me some more
I can live with denial but you're not my troubles anymore

The singer might not be able to stop the abuse, but he or she can name the abuser as the source (rather than themselves). Oh, easier said than done for damn sure, but this song can be a lifeline.

I won't continue the line-by-line breakdown, but the bridge is incredible:

God knows it's not easy taking on the shape of someone else's pain

Indeed, abusers place their pain on others, that's what they are doing. And, Jesus, is it hard.

God now you can see me - I'm naked and I'm not afraid, my body's sacred and I'm not ashamed

So much in this line. Reference to Genesis. Reference to the ravages of abuse. But empowerment in standing up and refusing the message of abuse - that you are not adequate, that you are not really even a person, that you should be ashamed. Empowerment with God - He sees you, all of you, and He loves you. You are sacred and when you return to Him, He will make you whole again.

I think its strength comes from its somewhat unusual arrangement.  Use of a guest artist in a way that sounds nothing like the typical grammies mash-up.  Great melody.  Interesting, broadly interpretable lyrics.  The somebody stepped inside bit is really good.  This is what U2 should be doing.  This and SLABT.   Its about something greater than them.  It’s not U2 by the numbers and it doesn’t sound like what’s on the radio....just like WOWY didn’t sound like what was on the radio.

LIAWHL (except for the baby on a doorstep line), Landlady, and for the occasional U2 by the numbers guilty pleasure...EBW and Little Things, along with Troubles and SLABT....tracks like these on otherwise predictable and boring albums is why I say U2 is still capable of greatness and will find their way back before they call it a day.  All the great artists have these periods.  Dylan was basically written off before pairing up with Lanois and coming back with No Mercy at age 48 followed later by Good as I Been and Time Out of Mind.  It’s all good!


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Offline zoo adam

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Re: Do you think Songs Of Innocence is underrated?
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2018, 10:18:18 AM »
'The Troubles' is fine. A bit mechanical. Bono & Lykke Li taking it in turns to sing their bits alone. 

Prefer 'Woman in Chains' from Tears for Fears, featuring Oleta Adams. They sing seperatly and together.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 10:25:28 AM by zoo adam »

u2music

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Re: Do you think Songs Of Innocence is underrated?
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2018, 11:14:31 AM »
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I haven't been on in a while. I saw this topic and typed up a reply about The Troubles because I thought I had something to add, and that maybe this could even bring comfort to people as the song has done for me. Just checked my PM box and I've been asked not to engage anymore. I considered deleting my post above but I will let it stand. My original hope that it brings comfort also stands. I've enjoyed my time here with you all.

No stay. You know how I feel about you.  You belong here and have the best input I've seen ever on this forum.  You are very smart and your insight is amazing.  This forum needs people like you.

Here's the thing, I've got no real input around here.  Not as smart as you or Tortuga or others.  I don't need to be here is what needs to happen.  But, you need to be here.

I'm out.  After deleting my account the profile will show Guest.  Which means I'm no longer on the forum.  The best all the way around.

Offline Tortuga

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Re: Do you think Songs Of Innocence is underrated?
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2018, 12:33:45 PM »
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I haven't been on in a while. I saw this topic and typed up a reply about The Troubles because I thought I had something to add, and that maybe this could even bring comfort to people as the song has done for me. Just checked my PM box and I've been asked not to engage anymore. I considered deleting my post above but I will let it stand. My original hope that it brings comfort also stands. I've enjoyed my time here with you all.

No stay. You know how I feel about you.  You belong here and have the best input I've seen ever on this forum.  You are very smart and your insight is amazing.  This forum needs people like you.

Here's the thing, I've got no real input around here.  Not as smart as you or Tortuga or others.  I don't need to be here is what needs to happen.  But, you need to be here.

I'm out.  After deleting my account the profile will show Guest.  Which means I'm no longer on the forum.  The best all the way around.

What are you guys talking about?  I’m confused.


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Offline shineinthesummernight

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Re: Do you think Songs Of Innocence is underrated?
« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2018, 01:48:36 PM »
Laoghaire, you should definitely stay.  Your posts are extremely well-thought out and insightful.  I'm not sure why anyone would consider them offensive or provoking in any way.  "The Troubles" is a song that speaks to many of us on many levels, and you've given it a very thoughtful interpretation.  One doesn't have to be abused to relate to it, even a toxic relationship can allow a person to relate to some of the lyrics.
    Please stay.

Offline Tortuga

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Re: Do you think Songs Of Innocence is underrated?
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2018, 01:58:57 PM »
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I haven't been on in a while. I saw this topic and typed up a reply about The Troubles because I thought I had something to add, and that maybe this could even bring comfort to people as the song has done for me. Just checked my PM box and I've been asked not to engage anymore. I considered deleting my post above but I will let it stand. My original hope that it brings comfort also stands. I've enjoyed my time here with you all.
Can you explain to us why someone would PM you over this post? 


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Offline summerholly

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Re: Do you think Songs Of Innocence is underrated?
« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2018, 04:38:58 PM »
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I haven't been on in a while. I saw this topic and typed up a reply about The Troubles because I thought I had something to add, and that maybe this could even bring comfort to people as the song has done for me. Just checked my PM box and I've been asked not to engage anymore. I considered deleting my post above but I will let it stand. My original hope that it brings comfort also stands. I've enjoyed my time here with you all.

No stay. You know how I feel about you.  You belong here and have the best input I've seen ever on this forum.  You are very smart and your insight is amazing.  This forum needs people like you.

Here's the thing, I've got no real input around here.  Not as smart as you or Tortuga or others.  I don't need to be here is what needs to happen.  But, you need to be here.

I'm out.  After deleting my account the profile will show Guest.  Which means I'm no longer on the forum.  The best all the way around.

What are you guys talking about?  I’m confused.


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I am confused as well!  All this talk of leaving and deleting

Offline BlueSquirrel

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Re: Do you think Songs Of Innocence is underrated?
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2018, 03:41:59 AM »
Laoghaire, I don't really know what happened but I think you should stay. Everyone's entitled to their own interpretation of a song. This is a place for debating. I think your posts are respectful and informative.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 07:53:37 AM by BlueSquirrel »

Offline laoghaire

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Re: Do you think Songs Of Innocence is underrated?
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2018, 06:43:26 AM »
Arghhhh I really blew it and I'm really sorry to everyone. 

It would make sense if I could explain but it doesn't matter because in my attempt to not be an a****** I managed to do an a****** thing by posting drama (I love the peaceful life dammit). I realize now what I should have done, too late.

Very sorry for that, and sorry that u2music unregistered and we lost a contributor to this forum. I hope they come back.

And to a particular person, you know who you are, reread my Troubles post again. It was for you, but only in a good way. Everything you were afraid of about me wasn't true.