Author Topic: Rumour: Southern Hemisphere 2019 tour  (Read 15106 times)

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Offline Billy Rhythm

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Re: Rumour: Southern Hemisphere 2019 tour
« Reply #90 on: April 16, 2019, 09:58:30 PM »
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You seem to be forgetting Desire, All I Want is You, Angel of Harlem, When Love Comes to Town...I guess they don't fit your narrative.

"yet more songs written around the same A to D chord formula"

Criticising songs because they use A-D chord progression? Seriously? I guess you'll be criticising the Beatles next? You know they used that chord progression too... And this coming from someone who can't tell the difference between Like a Rolling Stone and Desire...
guess you can't read for I've commented on 3 of those four...  as for 'When Love Comes To Town'?  it don't fly without B.B. King, as the live versions without him can attest...  especially Vancouver 2015...  yikes...

as for your last statement, again either you can't read or "can't tell the difference between" 'Desire' & 'Angel of Harlem'...

it's one thing to use the same chords but you gotta do something different with it...  there's even live versions of 'Bad' where Bono starts singing 'All I Want Is You' and exposes it for the rewrite that it is...  atleast both 'Hawkmoon 269' & 'All I Want Is You' venture a little further from 'Bad' than Zooropa's 'The First Time' does, I'll give them that but they sorely lack any originality as with most of the album..

look, I don't expect anybody here to agree with me for the only ones reading/posting these days here are the hardcores...  but suspect sales figures to justify how good this record supposedly was, or high school ovations and alleged packed house sing-alongs don't sugar coat the pretentious loaf of second rate parodies that this album represents amongst their body of work...  while the film is beautifully shot and documents the fabulous Joshua Tree era nicely, the album itself lacks the innovation expected of them at the time...  they were followers here and not the same leaders that dominated most of the 80's...:-)

Offline daveyg

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Re: Rumour: Southern Hemisphere 2019 tour
« Reply #91 on: April 17, 2019, 02:52:12 AM »
OK – seems to have gone off topic a bit. Given U2 have crammed I&E, E&I and JT30 tours more or less back to back in recent years, with quotes from the camp saying they’ll be taking a very well earned break makes it look like any tour this year unlikely, much as Oz and NZ deserve a long overdue visit by Bono and the boys at this stage. Add into the mix that no advertisement or ticket release have been made at this stage (to be honest, just because a fan based site rumours it, doesn’t make it true unless it comes from the horse’s mouth. U2.com seems to be tumbleweed on the issue right now).

You also have to consider the practicalities of a taking a tour down south of whatever format – Lovetown meets I&E/E&I meets JT or whatever – but the band will have to rehearse for these sets of shows, physically get themselves there plus crew  plus equipment – all eating into their publicised downtime. I’d imagine the consequence to doing this would be bouncing the ball further down for any projects they might have planned next in terms of albums. The bit of an extended break between NLOTH and SoI might seem nothing while waiting for their next album if they have to delay it to slot in an Oz/NZ tour. And by their own admittance, they’re not quick workers and appears to be quite a slog for the four of them to get and album written, rehearsed, recorded and released.

I’m trying to derail anyone’s hopes, and would be great the southern hemisphere fans get what they deserve, but I can see Christmas 2019 come and go without and U2 gigs anywhere (bar Christmas Eve here in Dublin!!)

Offline wons

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Re: Rumour: Southern Hemisphere 2019 tour
« Reply #92 on: April 17, 2019, 04:37:01 AM »
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1. Rattle And Hum is only two albums in the Vinyl configuration. On Cassette and Compact Disc, there is just one album.
2. RIAA did not allow multiple disc, records, or CDs from an album to be counted multiple times for sales until the mid-1990s.
3. Rattle And Hum achieved triple platinum status, RIAA certified, on January 17, 1989. That's 3 million sold in the United States ALONE. In 1989, albums like The WALL by Pink Floyd or Physical Graffitti By Led Zeppelin could only be counted once for the sell of the album, not twice or more for the extra record in the package. Same with vinyl copies of Rattle And Hum. One purchase equaled one album sold.

the "vinyl configuration" still made for the bulk of sales as CD's weren't quite yet taking over...  technology was still evolving to the point where the players and the discs themselves weren't as costly, for CD's were more than double the cost of LP's when they first appeared in the mid-eighties while the players themselves weren't yet within reach of most household's budgets...  getting back to Australia (as in ARIA), if I may, there's a detail that you're conveniently overlooking in that they certify by Shipments, not Sales...  their barometer for units shipped is much less than your six digit American sales figures and yes, the 2 records count as 2 shipped...  stick to the topic of Australia here...  there's a reason why 'Rattle & Hum' appeared to outsell 'The Joshua Tree' Down Under, but you really have no hard data to back that up, do you?  that's because it didn't happen...

I have a hard time picturing a packed theatre "singing along" to 'Van Dieman's Land' & 'Heartland' back in the day, sorry...  let me guess...  they sang along to 'Where The Streets Have No Name' and 'With Or Without You'...  two songs that never appeared on the 'Rattle & Hum' album...  I won't insult your intelligence and point to which album they're from...  many copies of the album were shipped to Australia to coincide with the tour and we really have no idea exactly how many "units" were sold...

.:-)

1. shipments of albums are based on sales of the album. Record distributers buy albums from the record company. From the bands point of view, and album shipped is an album sold. U2 are paid royalties on every album that gets shipped anywhere in the world.


2. Returns of shipments of albums are rare and only happen within the first couple of weeks of an album release. That's the only time a mistake in estimating demand is ever made. Once that small probationary window passes, the distributer has plenty of sales data to estimate and purchase what they will need to handle demand in the coming weeks.


3. In the United States back in 1988, RIAA rules did not allow for certifications of any album until at least 60 days had passed since the initial release date of the album. This was to prevent any problems with what I discussed above in #2. No one could certify and album platinum on the first day of release. Sixty days needed to pass before any certifications were made in case a mistake was made in estimating demand for a new album and distributers were still within the window to return albums they had initially purchased.


4. Rattle And Hum was released October 3, 1988 in the United States. It was certified for 2 million albums sold, double platinum on December 6, 1988 by the RIAA. On January 17, 1989, it was certified triple platinum for 3 million copies sold in the United States by the RIAA. The difference between actual sales to consumers and sales to distributers is small after that much time after an album release. Soundcan in the United States did not exist yet so the exact number would not be known, but the differences between sales to consumers and sales to distributers is small because distributers don't buy albums when there is no demand for the album. Like any business, distributers only buy product based on previous sales and do so carefully since their trying to make profit on everything they purchase. So 3 million sold in January 1989, for Rattle And Hum, in the United States as certified by RIAA, is just as real as the Joshua Tree being certified for 5 million in sales on October 6, 1988 by the RIAA, 3 days after Rattle and Hum was released.

5. Vinyl configurations stopped making up 50% or more of sales in the early 1980s. Audio Cassettes passed vinyl configurations in sales around 1982/1983. By 1988, Vinyl configurations were making up a small and declining space in any store. Joshua Tree was the first album to sell 1 million compact disc back in 1987. Over 75% of Joshua Tree's sales in 1987 came from Audio Cassette and Compact Disc. By 1988's Rattle And Hum, the figure was probably over 80% sold as Audio Cassette and Compact Disc. By 1993, less than 1% of all albums sold, were sold in Vinyl configurations.

6. But #5 does not matter since I already explained that the RIAA did not count multiple disc in a single album package for sales until 1995.

7. ARIA to my knowledge has never at any time counted multiple disc in single package for sales. Even if it did that for Rattle And Hum, it would not be enough to explain Rattle And Hums greater sales over the Joshua Tree back in the late 1980s since by then Vinyl configurations only made up a fraction of sales.

8. Joshua Tree never hit #1 in Australia. The Joshua Tree peaked at #3 in Australia. By contrast, Rattle And Hum entered at #1 on the Australian album chart in its first week of release. After one year of release, Rattle And Hum was still in the top 10 in Australia. After one year of release, Joshua Tree was not even in the top 20 in Australia. Rattle And Hum was #1 in Australia for 6 weeks. No other U2 album has spent that much time at #1 before or since!  Joshua Tree went 5 times platinum in Australia for 350,000 copies sold. Rattle And Hum went 7 times platinum for 490,000 copies sold. Its the only country in the world where Rattle And Hum outsold Joshua Tree. But it happened. The weekly charts showed that it did as does the sales figures from the ARIA.

9. As for your opinion about Rattle and Hum and its music or how original it is, good for you. Its your opinion. Its not fact like the sales data I've reported above. As for your experience of Rattle And Hum in the theater being like a bingo hall, I understand. I guess that's Victoria Canada for ya. I guess "Big Foot" would of had to make an appearance to get people out of their seats.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2019, 05:26:58 AM by wons »

Offline wons

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Re: Rumour: Southern Hemisphere 2019 tour
« Reply #93 on: April 17, 2019, 05:01:42 AM »
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You seem to be forgetting Desire, All I Want is You, Angel of Harlem, When Love Comes to Town...I guess they don't fit your narrative.

"yet more songs written around the same A to D chord formula"

Criticising songs because they use A-D chord progression? Seriously? I guess you'll be criticising the Beatles next? You know they used that chord progression too... And this coming from someone who can't tell the difference between Like a Rolling Stone and Desire...
guess you can't read for I've commented on 3 of those four...  as for 'When Love Comes To Town'?  it don't fly without B.B. King, as the live versions without him can attest...  especially Vancouver 2015...  yikes...

as for your last statement, again either you can't read or "can't tell the difference between" 'Desire' & 'Angel of Harlem'...

it's one thing to use the same chords but you gotta do something different with it...  there's even live versions of 'Bad' where Bono starts singing 'All I Want Is You' and exposes it for the rewrite that it is...  atleast both 'Hawkmoon 269' & 'All I Want Is You' venture a little further from 'Bad' than Zooropa's 'The First Time' does, I'll give them that but they sorely lack any originality as with most of the album..

look, I don't expect anybody here to agree with me for the only ones reading/posting these days here are the hardcores...  but suspect sales figures to justify how good this record supposedly was, or high school ovations and alleged packed house sing-alongs don't sugar coat the pretentious loaf of second rate parodies that this album represents amongst their body of work...  while the film is beautifully shot and documents the fabulous Joshua Tree era nicely, the album itself lacks the innovation expected of them at the time...  they were followers here and not the same leaders that dominated most of the 80's...:-)

Sorry, but your opinion on the music of Rattle And Hum pales in comparison to the factual sales data on he album. There are nearly 8 billion people on the planet and they all have different opinions about everything. Your unique opinion on Rattle And Hum is just one of those. The FACT that Rattle And HUM made it to #1 in Australia, was in the top 10 after year of release vs Joshua Tree peaking at #3 in Australia and not being in the top 20 after a year of release is what is significant here. Rattle And Hum was #1 for six weeks in Australia. No other U2 album has been at number one in Australia that long before or since! Also significant is the fact that Rattle And Hum sold 490,000 copies compared to 350,000 for Joshua Tree back in the 1980s.

Rattle And Hum and the Lovetown Tour are very special in Australia. I'm sorry you don't realize that when presented with the factual data. If U2 does tour at the end of the year in Australia, it will likely be a tour that will feature a special nod to Rattle And Hum and the Lovetown Tour.

Just to put the cherry on top, here is a cool film about U2's Lovetown Tour in Australia:

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« Last Edit: April 17, 2019, 05:25:10 AM by wons »

Offline Tortuga

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Re: Rumour: Southern Hemisphere 2019 tour
« Reply #94 on: April 17, 2019, 06:05:45 AM »
You guys are debating two entirely different things.  Album sales do not prove an album was “good”, only that it was popular.  Likewise, positive or negative critical opinions don’t prove that an album was popular or unpopular.  You both just keep repeating your cases, neither of which are linked one to the other.


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Offline wons

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Re: Rumour: Southern Hemisphere 2019 tour
« Reply #95 on: April 17, 2019, 09:28:21 AM »
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You guys are debating two entirely different things.  Album sales do not prove an album was “good”, only that it was popular.  Likewise, positive or negative critical opinions don’t prove that an album was popular or unpopular.  You both just keep repeating your cases, neither of which are linked one to the other.


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Actually that is incorrect. Billy made claims about Rattle And Hum's sales in both Australia and the United States that were factually incorrect. I corrected those claims with factual sales data in both countries, as well as Album Chart data from Australia for both Joshua Tree and Rattle And Hum. Billy disputes the fact that Rattle And Hum is U2's biggest selling album in Australia. I've provided overwhelming evidence that it is in fact U2's best selling album in Australia.

I've never made any serious claims about the quality of Rattle And Hum vs any other U2 albums. My point has been demonstrate how special Rattle And Hum and the Love Town Tour both were to Australia. The sales data indicates that the album is rather special in Australia, more so than it was anywhere else. This increases the likely hood that a tour, if it happens, at the end of 2019 in Australia, will likely emphasize the Rattle And Hum/Love Town Tour phase of U2's career from 30 years ago.

Again, were talking about a tour here and where U2 would tour and what might be emphasized on the tour. U2's album sales in Australia are very relevant to if they will tour and how they will tour Australia.

What I or Billy thinks about the Rattle And Hum album in terms of how original it is and the quality of it is completely irrelevant to whether U2 will do a tour later in the year that has a setlist with emphasis towards songs from Rattle And Hum.

Offline wons

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Re: Rumour: Southern Hemisphere 2019 tour
« Reply #96 on: April 17, 2019, 06:05:36 PM »
Just to add a little more about the success of Rattle And Hum over Joshua Tree in Australia, lets take a look at how the singles from each album did in Australia:

Joshua Tree:
With Or Without You: peaked at #9
I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For: peaked at #17
Where The Streets Have No Name: did NOT make the top 20
In God's Country: did NOT make the top 20

Rattle And Hum:
Desire: peaked at #1
Angel Of Harlem: peaked at #18
When Love Comes To Town: peaked at #23
All I Want Is You: peaked at #2

               So this is another area that shows the Rattle And Hum album clearly beating Joshua Tree in Australia.

Offline briscoetheque

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Re: Rumour: Southern Hemisphere 2019 tour
« Reply #97 on: April 18, 2019, 09:15:00 AM »
Geez. People have been banned for derailed threads more relevant than this....!

Offline summerholly

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Re: Rumour: Southern Hemisphere 2019 tour
« Reply #98 on: April 18, 2019, 10:09:02 AM »
Dont really care about statistics or chord progressions, my ears and mind like songs off Rattle and Hum, that is all I care about.  I still really enjoy Angel of Harlem and All I want is you among others.  Would like to see them played if they ever come to Oz.  Maybe they come maybe they don't who knows.  Not overly expecting it.

Offline singnomore

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Re: Rumour: Southern Hemisphere 2019 tour
« Reply #99 on: April 18, 2019, 01:03:36 PM »
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Geez. People have been banned for derailed threads more relevant than this....!

Indeed - and the thread is being carefully watched I can assure you...

Offline MattD

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Re: Rumour: Southern Hemisphere 2019 tour
« Reply #100 on: April 18, 2019, 07:03:55 PM »
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Geez. People have been banned for derailed threads more relevant than this....!

Just make sure you don’t criticise Donald Trump, that will really rile the mods....

Offline skelter

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Re: Rumour: Southern Hemisphere 2019 tour
« Reply #101 on: April 18, 2019, 08:29:39 PM »
The boring whining derailing brigade.

More than half the month is over. Looking less likely for any U2 activity this year. Place bets now!

Offline wons

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Re: Rumour: Southern Hemisphere 2019 tour
« Reply #102 on: April 18, 2019, 10:37:11 PM »
Well I don't really see why April has to be the month that determines whether there is a U2 tour in November/December of this year. I think they could wait until August to announce it. I think they are resting at the moment and keeping their options open. I sense they would prefer to wait longer rather than being locked into something so far in advance. A situation where they could cancel the whole thing in late July if they decide to for whatever reason.

Offline singnomore

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Re: Rumour: Southern Hemisphere 2019 tour
« Reply #103 on: April 19, 2019, 01:08:48 AM »
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Geez. People have been banned for derailed threads more relevant than this....!

Just make sure you don’t criticise Donald Trump, that will really rile the mods....

Oh so below the belt  ;D

Offline podiumboy

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Re: Rumour: Southern Hemisphere 2019 tour
« Reply #104 on: April 19, 2019, 10:27:46 AM »
u2songs claim that the tour is going to be announced towards the end of the month.  We shall see.